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BW Magic-- It's not in the game. - Page 12

Blogs > RedJustice
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Smix *
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States4549 Posts
October 31 2011 20:54 GMT
#221
lol wow hpig hahahaha
TranslatorBe an Optimist Prime, Not a Negatron // twitter @smixity
HawaiianPig
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Canada5155 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-01 08:30:23
October 31 2011 20:59 GMT
#222
I'm going to abuse the hell out of my HTML rights to lay this out clearly:

On November 01 2011 01:56 RedJustice wrote:

I think on further reflection, much of my thoughts on this are based in part on how BW gets represented many times when there is talk about it to someone who does not know the game. The overwhelming impression I have received is that watching a few games of BW, or trying to play it yourself will completely change the way you think about BW-- make you love it, make you think it's the best, make you want to learn everything you can about it and be part of that community (regardless of whether or not you drop other particular games all together in favor of it). The tone I feel like I have heard is that there is no way you can not love BW once you have been exposed to it, try watching X game and you will change your mind.


The BW Elitist's "Overzealous Claim"



Ok, we have some serious miscommunication here. I think the crux of the issue is that those who apparently "get" BW are terrible at conveying their stance to the uninitiated.

For example, let's revisit that first quote. RedJustice wrote:

"The tone I feel like I have heard is that there is no way you can not love BW once you have been exposed to it, try watching X game and you will change your mind."

It's true. I see people speak like this all the time, and while I shrug it off in casual conversations, it needs to be made clear that this is probably the worst approach you can take if your aim is to introduce someone to Brood War. I've always found these types of claims overzealous. They scream of what amounts to fanboyism.

You know... that whole:

"Just watch Flash play and you'll know why BW is so much better than everything ever!!!"

This is silly and not how one should seriously go about introducing someone to Brood War.

Let me take the time to properly recommend this fine game to you.

Before I do so, we'll first look at the language behind what people say when they suggest the game. The suggestion to do X Y and Z in order to "love BW" needs some caveats.

The "overzealous claim" is better phrased this way:

"Doing X Y and Z will get you to love BW if and only if certain assumptions are made."

These assumptions are:
  1. There are certain values that comprise the "love" that must be deemed valid

  2. X Y and Z are proper ways to convey why BW upholds these values


A practical example of this, based on my stance on the matter follows:


Why You May Come To Love BW


Here's my personal reasoning:

  1. If you highly value activities that (i) require, (ii) demonstrate and (iii) measure skill in a competitive way, then

  2. By engaging in (i) learning the game and (ii) exploring its depth and breadth of skill, you will reasonably understand why BW is one of the, if not best, examples of the aforementioned values.


Now, you've already had some exposure, as you outline here:

On November 01 2011 01:56 RedJustice wrote:

I played a small amount myself-- enough to experience the difference in the amount of multitasking and unit control it requires. I am pretty bad, but I can still appreciate this challenge.

I watched the OSL finals because it seemed that it would represent some of the best play I could see that is happening now. It was exciting, and crazy, and fun to watch.

I watched VODs on my own to find out a bit more about what was going on in the game, and see some of the amazing plays like reaver drops that everyone loves (they are pretty awesome).

I appreciated it-- I think it is a good game, and better than what is out there now. I did not have this epiphany of recognizing how much I wanted to learn more about BW and play it and celebrate it.


It seems as though you have engaged in both 2(i) and 2(ii) to some extent.

However, I'd contend one of either two things occured:
  1. You didn't engage in learning the game or exploring the depths properly, or
  2. You do not highly value the tenets of point 1.


I'll address each point here individually:

If you feel you didn't engage in learning the game or exploring the depths properly



I'd suggest you find a BW player of about C rank or up and ask them to teach you the game.

Now, I do understand that it's a huge undertaking to develop a strong understanding of the game. I can tell you from experience that it took about a year for me to truly start to appreciate the existence of fine intricacies in the game, and I fully admit that I know nothing relative to a better player.

So... in the event you don't want to invest this time, I'd suggest watching games and hearing what a skilled player has to say about what happened.

...And by skilled player, I do not mean an English caster. I love em, and they made the foreign scene accessible to many during the years prior to SC2's release, but anyone who's been around will tell you that most English casters had very limited knowledge of the game. (i.e. Klazart and the "Bisu Build," lmao)

If you can't get a hold of skilled player, watch VODs or live games together. Barring that, maybe read some of the analysis posted in the BW news here on TL. Our battle reports are often written by players who have a good grasp on the game. Anything written by Kiante* and mustaju in the last 2 or 3 weeks of the most recent Proleague season was pretty spot on. Also check out KwarK's analysis of OSL games, he is often unforgivingly critical of pros. It's a good thing.

*Careful with Kiante... his writing could... uh... use improvement at times.


If you feel you don't value the tenets of point 1



That is to say: you don't highly value activities that require, demonstrate and measure skill in a competitive way, then you probably won't enjoy BW. Simple as that.

The fanfare, the hype, the leagues and fanboy/girlism, all of it, in my opinion, exists on a necessary foundation of a sufficiently complex and deep game. You need to be able to appreciate this greatly to greatly appreciate BW itself.


Now that I've gone beyond the "OMG Watch this game and you'll know" recommendation.

I'll now address your main objection as to why you doubt the "magic":

The RedJustice Objection:
If BW is so great, why isn't it incredibly popular?


On November 01 2011 01:56 RedJustice wrote:

One of the prevailing arguments has been that if BW didn't have this inherent bit of "magic" that makes people love it, how would there be such a strong scene, and so much more success for the game than any other?

What I wonder in response-- legitimately, not disrespectfully-- is that if it has that inherent magic, why is it struggling? Why aren't thousands and thousands of new fans entering the scene? Why isn't the foreign fanbase of BW growing after it gets re-exposed to the world with the release of SC2?

First thing's first:

BW's success in popularity is a manifestation of love for the game, not the reasoning behind it.

The truth is, just because we have good reason to love the game, does not mean everyone will buy into those reasons.

If you look at the video game industry, competitive and challenging games are, on the whole, in a decline. There has been a steep rise in cheap, simple and "fun" casual games. People who enjoy these games pay no mind to the competitive nature and skill required.

The truth is, it's actually not very common for people to enjoy the details of the skill required of any game or sport. There may be a core of "enthusiasts" that are well versed in the intricacies of any given activity, but I'd argue that the majority of the fanbase for these activities have only a cursory understanding.

Most of my friends and family who watch Hockey with me have no idea what "a trap" is, but they thoroughly enjoy the atmosphere and fanfare surrounding team rivalries and watching someone use a stick of wood to slap a puck into a net.

However, Hockey would not have thrived and developed this atmosphere, this fanfare, this storied history, without a solid foundation of a truly deep and competitively rich activity. This can be said for any popular sport or competitive activity.

Brood War has this foundation, but whether or not it has the fanbase on top is a matter of a whole host of other factors.

You contend that BW is "struggling," and while that may be an overstatement, the reasoning behind this is a complex issue. Chief among the reasons for this struggle just so happens to lie in the release of what's essentially a new version of the game. This release not only directly competes with it for attention, but has resulted in a host of legal issues with the broadcasting of the game itself. Add in the fact that the newer game is more accessible to new players (it's easier to pick up and play), makes for just a few of many "blows" to the BW scene.

These blows are not inherent to the game, they're complex matters of cultural adoption.

You can devise an activity that compellingly and interestingly measures human skill, but how that activity is disseminated has nothing to do with the activity itself.

In short, many of us love the game for its sheer merits, and the fanbase built upon it gives it a further dimension that we feel is warranted, deserved and incredibly engaging.

That being said, the fanbase, its popularity, and the health of the scene is based on more factors than simply how good (read: competitively deep) the game is.

To object to the game's inherent merits based on the health of the scene is to be blind to the complexity of the process of what makes something popular.





If that doesn't answer your questions and give you perspective on the matter, I don't know what will
AdministratorNot actually Hawaiian.
Geovu
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Estonia1344 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-31 21:03:23
October 31 2011 21:01 GMT
#223
Nice double post, LOL



On October 31 2011 17:59 Bayyne wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 31 2011 16:00 Ideas wrote:
then what game DOES have "the magic"?


Clearly Ninja Crusaders...pshhh.

+ Show Spoiler +

I watched the whole video just to listen to the music, so amazing. Boss music sucks and they should have put in something different for the final boss but that game definitely has "the magic" :D

On October 31 2011 20:19 nitdkim wrote:
You've obviously never obtained an instant "gg" with a Godly reaver harass and seeing your opponent's reaction from either across the room or the internet. The magic in BW lives in each unit and the potential they all have (except the stupid scout, unless you're Kal on Colosseum).

I've personally instantly gg'd many a time to fucking hellions. Not sure if that was what you meant though lol
SonuvBob
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
Aiur21549 Posts
October 31 2011 21:03 GMT
#224
On November 01 2011 05:59 HawaiianPig wrote in fancy HTML and shit:
So... in the event you don't want to invest this time, I'd suggest watching games and hearing what a skilled player has to say about what happened.

...And by skilled player, I do not mean an English caster. I love em, and they made the foreign scene accessible to many during the years prior to SC2's release, but anyone who's been around will tell you that most English casters had very limited knowledge of the game. (i.e. Klazart and the "Bisu Build," lmao)

If you can't get a hold of skilled player, watch VODs or live games together. Barring that, maybe read some of the analysis posted in the BW news here on TL.

I imagine some of the BW Day[9] Dailies would be perfect for this.
Administrator
chaosTheory_14cc
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Canada1270 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-31 21:16:26
October 31 2011 21:15 GMT
#225
HawaiianPig I am in love with you. Wherever it is you live in Canada, I will come find you.

I can't count how many times I've read an uninformed non-competitive gamer's opinions of a competitive game on competitive gaming websites. It's very frustrating. If you aren't a competitive gamer, then, while you are allowed your opinion, please be aware that while it is subjective, its validity is not.

(of course, she may very well be a competitive gamer, just not having properly delved into BW.)
Harem
Profile Joined November 2007
United States11390 Posts
October 31 2011 21:56 GMT
#226
On November 01 2011 04:19 SonuvBob wrote:
The main source of an ESPORT's viewership is the game's players, and BW is not exactly a newb-friendly game. And without English commentary, Korean BW is very difficult to get into (the lack of foreign players to follow doesn't help either). It's possible for SC2 fans to get into BW, but it takes some (Z)EffOrt. Threads like this will go a long way towards bringing in new blood, as would more high-quality English commentary (afaik it's mostly just Sayle, but I don't know if he does Korean pro games). If Day[9] started doing BW dailies for a few weeks, there would be a huge boom.

Sayle is doing English commentary for the upcoming PL season. :3
Moderator。◕‿◕。
wherebugsgo
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Japan10647 Posts
October 31 2011 22:05 GMT
#227
On November 01 2011 04:19 SonuvBob wrote:
Threads like this will go a long way towards bringing in new blood


fixed

+ Show Spoiler +
I sincerely hoped with all of my heart that the link originally went to Nada's body lololol
Kiett
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States7639 Posts
October 31 2011 22:26 GMT
#228
HawaiianPig for president :D

and yes. Nada's Body brings all the boys to the yard.
Writer:o
gn0m
Profile Joined January 2008
Sweden302 Posts
October 31 2011 22:56 GMT
#229
There isnt much more to say after HawaiianPig’s post.

But what I really would like to emphasize is that you can’t expect to appreciate a complex game like BW with such abysmal efforts. Saying that you don’t find BW magical after playing the campaign and watching a handful of VODs where you have no clue of whats going on is ridiculous. That is like watching the first 5 minutes of The Godfather and then turn it off because you didn’t find it very exciting.
-_-
alexpnd
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Canada1857 Posts
October 31 2011 23:17 GMT
#230
Alright I'm gonna work on a game called poopie snacks and hope I get lucky!
www.brainyweb.ca //web stuff!
Lysenko
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Iceland2128 Posts
October 31 2011 23:17 GMT
#231
On November 01 2011 07:56 gn0m wrote:
But what I really would like to emphasize is that you can’t expect to appreciate a complex game like BW with such abysmal efforts. Saying that you don’t find BW magical after playing the campaign and watching a handful of VODs where you have no clue of whats going on is ridiculous. That is like watching the first 5 minutes of The Godfather and then turn it off because you didn’t find it very exciting.


It's too far for the OP to extrapolate from her efforts to explore the game to saying that the passion comes from nothing special in the game at all. However, I do think that the fact that she didn't really enjoy trying to learn it that much illustrates why the game isn't picking up many new followers -- because the barrier to entry is so high.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysenkoism
alexpnd
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Canada1857 Posts
October 31 2011 23:20 GMT
#232
On November 01 2011 08:17 Lysenko wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 01 2011 07:56 gn0m wrote:
But what I really would like to emphasize is that you can’t expect to appreciate a complex game like BW with such abysmal efforts. Saying that you don’t find BW magical after playing the campaign and watching a handful of VODs where you have no clue of whats going on is ridiculous. That is like watching the first 5 minutes of The Godfather and then turn it off because you didn’t find it very exciting.


It's too far for the OP to extrapolate from her efforts to explore the game to saying that the passion comes from nothing special in the game at all. However, I do think that the fact that she didn't really enjoy trying to learn it that much illustrates why the game isn't picking up many new followers -- because the barrier to entry is so high.


Yeah illustrating decision making (of the pros) is complicated. However, understanding it gives a great sense of wonder and excitement as the drama unfolds. Starcraft BW allows these decisions to have true consequences and rewards. BISH
www.brainyweb.ca //web stuff!
laLAlA[uC]
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Canada963 Posts
October 31 2011 23:25 GMT
#233
Holy shit, HawaiianPig laying down the law. o_o
I'm an old man now
LuckyFool
Profile Blog Joined June 2007
United States9015 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-31 23:32:02
October 31 2011 23:31 GMT
#234
Is it just me or has there been more than usual amazing kickass broodwar discussion around here lately. Feels good.
RedJustice
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States1004 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-31 23:40:42
October 31 2011 23:39 GMT
#235
+ Show Spoiler +
On November 01 2011 05:59 HawaiianPig wrote:
<style type="text/css">#hppost { font-family: verdana, sans-serif; } .box { background: #8095A7; margin: 0px 15px; padding: 30px; border-radius: 10px; -moz-border-radius: 10px; -webkit-border-radius: 10px; } .box2 { background: #E4E9ED; margin: 0px 15px; padding: 30px; border: 1px solid #566B7A; border-radius: 10px; -moz-border-radius: 10px; -webkit-border-radius: 10px; } .quotebox { margin: 10px 70px; padding: 15px; font-size: 8pt; border-radius: 10px; -moz-border-radius: 10px; -webkit-border-radius: 10px; background: #2F425C; color: #E0EEFF; } .orderedlisthp { background: #8095A7; margin: 10px 50px; padding:10px; border-radius: 10px; -moz-border-radius: 10px; -webkit-border-radius: 10px; } .orderedlisthp ol { padding-left: 30px; font: italic 12pt Georgia, Times, serif; } .orderedlisthp ol p { font: normal 10pt verdana, sans-serif; color: #092842; }</style><div id="hppost">I'm going to abuse the hell out of my HTML rights to lay this out clearly:

<div class="quotebox">On November 01 2011 01:56 RedJustice wrote:

I think on further reflection, much of my thoughts on this are based in part on how BW gets represented many times when there is talk about it to someone who does not know the game. The overwhelming impression I have received is that watching a few games of BW, or trying to play it yourself will completely change the way you think about BW-- make you love it, make you think it's the best, make you want to learn everything you can about it and be part of that community (regardless of whether or not you drop other particular games all together in favor of it). The tone I feel like I have heard is that there is no way you can not love BW once you have been exposed to it, try watching X game and you will change your mind.</div>

<div class="box">
The BW Elitist's "Overzealous Claim"



Ok, we have some serious miscommunication here. I think the crux of the issue is that those who apparently "get" BW are terrible at conveying their stance to the uninitiated.

For example, let's revisit that first quote. RedJustice wrote:

<span style="color: #FFDBAA;">"The tone I feel like I have heard is that there is no way you can not love BW once you have been exposed to it, try watching X game and you will change your mind."</span>

It's true. I see people speak like this all the time, and while I shrug it off in casual conversations, it needs to be made clear that this is probably the worst approach you can take if your aim is to introduce someone to Brood War. I've always found these types of claims overzealous. They scream of what amounts to fanboyism.

You know... that whole:

<span style="color: #FFDBAA;">"Just watch Flash play and you'll know why BW is so much better than everything ever!!!"</span>

This is silly and not how one should seriously go about introducing someone to Brood War.

Let me take the time to properly recommend this fine game to you.

Before I do so, we'll first look at the language behind what people say when they suggest the game. The suggestion to do X Y and Z in order to "love BW" needs some caveats.

The "overzealous claim" is better phrased this way:

<span style="color: #FFDBAA;">"Doing X Y and Z will get you to love BW if and only if certain assumptions are made."</span>

These assumptions are:
<div class="orderedlisthp"><ol><li><p>There are certain values that comprise the "love" that must be deemed valid</p></li><li><p>X Y and Z are proper ways to convey why BW upholds these values</p></li></ol></div>
A practical example of this, based on my stance on the matter follows:</div>

Why You May Come To Love BW


Here's my personal reasoning:

<div class="orderedlisthp"><ol><li><p>If you highly value activities that (i) require, (ii) demonstrate and (iii) measure skill in a competitive way, then</p></li><li><p>By engaging in (i) learning the game and (ii) exploring its depth and breadth of skill, you will reasonably understand why BW is one of the, if not best, examples of the aforementioned values.</p></li></ol></div>
Now, you've already had some exposure, as you outline here:

<div class="quotebox">On November 01 2011 01:56 RedJustice wrote:

I played a small amount myself-- enough to experience the difference in the amount of multitasking and unit control it requires. I am pretty bad, but I can still appreciate this challenge.

I watched the OSL finals because it seemed that it would represent some of the best play I could see that is happening now. It was exciting, and crazy, and fun to watch.

I watched VODs on my own to find out a bit more about what was going on in the game, and see some of the amazing plays like reaver drops that everyone loves (they are pretty awesome).

I appreciated it-- I think it is a good game, and better than what is out there now. I did not have this epiphany of recognizing how much I wanted to learn more about BW and play it and celebrate it.
</div>

It seems as though you have engaged in both 2(i) and 2(ii) to some extent.

However, I'd contend one of either two things occured:
  1. You didn't engage in learning the game or exploring the depths properly, or
  2. You do not highly value the tenants of point 1.


I'll address each point here individually:

<div class="box">
If you feel you didn't engage in learning the game or exploring the depths properly



I'd suggest you find a BW player of about C rank or up and ask them to teach you the game.

Now, I do understand that it's a huge undertaking to develop a strong understanding of the game. I can tell you from experience that it took about a year for me to truly start to appreciate the existence of fine intricacies in the game, and I fully admit that I know nothing relative to a better player.

So... in the event you don't want to invest this time, I'd suggest watching games and hearing what a skilled player has to say about what happened.

...And by skilled player, I do not mean an English caster. I love em, and they made the foreign scene accessible to many during the years prior to SC2's release, but anyone who's been around will tell you that most English casters had very limited knowledge of the game. (i.e. Klazart and the "Bisu Build," lmao)

If you can't get a hold of skilled player, watch VODs or live games together. Barring that, maybe read some of the analysis posted in the BW news here on TL. Our battle reports are often written by players who have a good grasp on the game. Anything written by Kiante* and mustaju in the last 2 or 3 weeks of the most recent Proleague season was pretty spot on. Also check out KwarK's analysis of OSL games, he is often unforgivingly critical of pros. It's a good thing.

*Careful with Kiante... his writing could... uh... use improvement at times. </div>

<div class="box">
If you feel you don't value the tenants of point 1



That is to say: you don't highly value activities that require, demonstrate and measure skill in a competitive way, then you probably won't enjoy BW. Simple as that.

The fanfare, the hype, the leagues and fanboy/girlism, all of it, in my opinion, exists on a necessary foundation of a sufficiently complex and deep game. You need to be able to appreciate this greatly to greatly appreciate BW itself.</div>

Now that I've gone beyond the "OMG Watch this game and you'll know" recommendation.

I'll now address your main objection as to why you doubt the "magic":

<div class="box2">
The RedJustice Objection:
If BW is so great, why isn't it incredibly popular?


<div class="quotebox">On November 01 2011 01:56 RedJustice wrote:

One of the prevailing arguments has been that if BW didn't have this inherent bit of "magic" that makes people love it, how would there be such a strong scene, and so much more success for the game than any other?

What I wonder in response-- legitimately, not disrespectfully-- is that if it has that inherent magic, why is it struggling? Why aren't thousands and thousands of new fans entering the scene? Why isn't the foreign fanbase of BW growing after it gets re-exposed to the world with the release of SC2?
</div>
First thing's first:

BW's success in popularity is a manifestation of love for the game, not the reasoning behind it.

The truth is, just because we have good reason to love the game, does not mean everyone will buy into those reasons.

If you look at the video game industry, competitive and challenging games are, on the whole, in a decline. There has been a steep rise in cheap, simple and "fun" casual games. People who enjoy these games pay no mind to the competitive nature and skill required.

The truth is, it's actually not very common for people to enjoy the details of the skill required of any game or sport. There may be a core of "enthusiasts" that are well versed in the intricacies of any given activity, but I'd argue that the majority of the fanbase for these activities have only a cursory understanding.

Most of my friends and family who watch Hockey with me have no idea what "a trap" is, but they thoroughly enjoy the atmosphere and fanfare surrounding team rivalries and watching someone use a stick of wood to slap a puck into a net.

However, Hockey would not have thrived and developed this atmosphere, this fanfare, this storied history, without a solid foundation of a truly deep and competitively rich activity. This can be said for any popular sport or competitive activity.

Brood War has this foundation, but whether or not it has the fanbase on top is a matter of a whole host of other factors.

You contend that BW is "struggling," and while that may be an overstatement, the reasoning behind this is a complex issue. Chief among the reasons for this struggle just so happens to lie in the release of what's essentially a new version of the game. This release not only directly competes with it for attention, but has resulted in a host of legal issues with the broadcasting of the game itself. Add in the fact that the newer game is more accessible to new players (it's easier to pick up and play), makes for just a few of many "blows" to the BW scene.

These blows are not inherent to the game, they're complex matters of cultural adoption.

You can devise an activity that compellingly and interestingly measures human skill, but how that activity is disseminated has nothing to do with the activity itself.

In short, many of us love the game for its sheer merits, and the fanbase built upon it gives it a further dimension that we feel is warranted, deserved and incredibly engaging.

That being said, the fanbase, its popularity, and the health of the scene is based on more factors than simply how good (read: competitively deep) the game is.

To object to the game's inherent merits based on the health of the scene is to be blind to the complexity of the process of what makes something popular.</div>




If that doesn't answer your questions and give you perspective on the matter, I don't know what will </div>


First of all, every time I see you post, I think of this:

[image loading]

This is the best post in this blog (and the prettiest). It is the most positive. It acknowledges my concerns about the 'overzealous claims' that led me to say, ok I did these things, and no, it's not how you claimed it would be. And then you went on to give me this super great explanation of things. I really appreciate it.

I am legitimately interested in this topic, as I think you have gathered since you bothered to give me this reply. I am by no means 'over' with BW, though I doubt I will ever pursue it in any competitive fashion. (I can't even play sc2 competitively right now, lololol.) I am interested in continuing to watch it. + Show Spoiler +
And I continue to stalk the Nada's body thread a lot. >o>
Elroi
Profile Joined August 2009
Sweden5595 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-01 00:00:11
October 31 2011 23:59 GMT
#236
Wow that post Hpig was incredibly well worded, I'm in awe. I would also feel that a Day[9] daily about BW would help the scene tremendously and maybe even help reconciling the sc1 and sc2 fanbases.

Redjustice: It would be awesome if you started following brood war! When you love something as much as we love brood war you want to share it with as many people as possible.
"To all eSports fans, I want to be remembered as a progamer who can make something out of nothing, and someone who always does his best. I think that is the right way of living, and I'm always doing my best to follow that." - Jaedong. /watch?v=jfghAzJqAp0
Kibibit
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States1551 Posts
November 01 2011 00:02 GMT
#237
On November 01 2011 08:31 LuckyFool wrote:
Is it just me or has there been more than usual amazing kickass broodwar discussion around here lately. Feels good.

I think it leads into one of the bigger problems with explaining the love for the game,in that pre SC2, we were never really pushed to find what it truly was we loved about the game, nor were we pushed to find ways to put that love into words. Up until then, "It's an easy to watch, well balanced FPS" kinda sufficed. Nothing before was similar enough to make us really have to elaborate too hard.
R.I.P. 우정호 || Do probes dream of psionic sheep?
gn0m
Profile Joined January 2008
Sweden302 Posts
November 01 2011 00:13 GMT
#238
On November 01 2011 08:17 Lysenko wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 01 2011 07:56 gn0m wrote:
But what I really would like to emphasize is that you can’t expect to appreciate a complex game like BW with such abysmal efforts. Saying that you don’t find BW magical after playing the campaign and watching a handful of VODs where you have no clue of whats going on is ridiculous. That is like watching the first 5 minutes of The Godfather and then turn it off because you didn’t find it very exciting.


It's too far for the OP to extrapolate from her efforts to explore the game to saying that the passion comes from nothing special in the game at all. However, I do think that the fact that she didn't really enjoy trying to learn it that much illustrates why the game isn't picking up many new followers -- because the barrier to entry is so high.

Agreed. As someone mentioned earlier in this thread, games seem to be aimed at a more casual crowed these days and I can understand how many people enjoy that. But in general, I think most activities in life have a “high barrier of entry”, for example stuff like traditional sports, chess (and other classic board games) etc. Interestingly enough, these activities tend to remain popular for a long period of time, since people find the depth appealing.
-_-
ComaDose
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Canada10357 Posts
November 01 2011 00:36 GMT
#239
pretty post HP.
that's as clear as one can make it.
BW pros training sc2 is like kiss making a dub step album.
koreasilver
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
9109 Posts
November 01 2011 00:42 GMT
#240
lol
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