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ZvP 3-hatch ling all-in vs FE

Blogs > Navane
Post a Reply
1 2 Next All
Navane
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Netherlands2748 Posts
July 15 2009 12:45 GMT
#1
So someone did it to me when I was offracing P. Since then whenever I do it I win. (9 pool-speed, deny scout, 3 hatch ling all in) Is it because of bad simcity that it works? Or why don't the progammers do it more often?

***
Cloud
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Sexico5880 Posts
July 15 2009 12:50 GMT
#2
....
Because you have to count on your opponent playing like a dumbass to do it?

I mean sure you can get all the way to B- (some guys have) if you do nothing but 3 hatch ling or proxy 9/9 gates or 10/15 vs terrans on pvt or bbsing everyone.
BlueLaguna on West, msg for game.
l10f *
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States3241 Posts
July 15 2009 12:53 GMT
#3
I do that in the lower ranks because the majority of the people can't block it at the lower ranks.

maybe that's why I'm always stuck at C- and never improve
Writer
7mk
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Germany10157 Posts
July 15 2009 13:06 GMT
#4
Jaedong vs Stork.
beep boop
tobi9999
Profile Joined April 2009
United States1966 Posts
July 15 2009 13:11 GMT
#5
Only works against noobies who have badsimcities/slow reactiontime

dont be greedy get 3 cannons, have a couple of zeals, pull your probes, and the cannons arent touched and the lings all die.

then get a scout because zergs who 3hatch ling deserve to be punished
"tobi is ur iq 9999? cuz i think it might be u so smart wowowow." -Artosis
CrimsonLotus
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Colombia1123 Posts
July 15 2009 13:17 GMT
#6
I dont know at what level you play, but a D level i can tell you this:

-Knowing what the Zerg is doing is really hard, because with the level of multitask that you have at D level, your scout is not gonna survive very long, and once it dies, you are basically blind.

-D level players are greedy, they dont like to take those extra safety measures because they feel it would hurt their economy and reduce their chance of winning a macro game by around 4%, and that is unacceptable.

-Protoss building positioning tends to be less than ideal, because it takes experience and study to learn to always do it correctly, something D level players dont have.



444 444 444 444
ghermination
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
United States2851 Posts
July 15 2009 13:19 GMT
#7
D: I hate losing to this, but i only do maybe 1/4 times. Generally its pretty easy to block but sometimes i just die.
U Gotta Skate.
Navane
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Netherlands2748 Posts
July 15 2009 13:28 GMT
#8
well, 3 cannons and a few probs and zealots is not gonna cut it vs 60 lings i think?
Cheeseball
Profile Joined February 2009
Australia208 Posts
July 15 2009 13:46 GMT
#9
Most of the time, the zerg will play standard, realise you have a shit sim city and mass lings. Shouldn't be relying on an all in, but if you see the opportunity due to their error :D:D:D
thunk
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
United States6233 Posts
July 15 2009 14:08 GMT
#10
On July 15 2009 22:17 CrimsonLotus wrote:
I dont know at what level you play, but a D level i can tell you this:

-Knowing what the Zerg is doing is really hard, because with the level of multitask that you have at D level, your scout is not gonna survive very long, and once it dies, you are basically blind.

-D level players are greedy, they dont like to take those extra safety measures because they feel it would hurt their economy and reduce their chance of winning a macro game by around 4%, and that is unacceptable.

-Protoss building positioning tends to be less than ideal, because it takes experience and study to learn to always do it correctly, something D level players dont have.



CrimsonLotus has said it best so far, but I'd like to re-emphasize the simcity part. Good Simcities are the key to beating a 3 hatch-ling all-in. It has a worse probability of working at a Pro level than a hydra break because most progamers can scout it and defend it easily.
Every time Jung Myung Hoon builds a vulture, two probes die. || My post count was a palindrome and I was never posting again.
tobi9999
Profile Joined April 2009
United States1966 Posts
July 15 2009 14:10 GMT
#11
On July 15 2009 22:28 Navane wrote:
well, 3 cannons and a few probs and zealots is not gonna cut it vs 60 lings i think?


actually it does, with a good simcity 1 zealot > 12 lings. unless you attack the buildings and lose half the lings to cannon fire.

+

by the time you get 60 lings I can guarantee 40 dmg imba DTS will be blocking the cannons and sairs will be killing your overlords.

generally you attack when their corsair first sees all the lings( you have 30-40 then )

but sometimes on some maps i'm not gonna lie, your gonna get lucky and 3hatch ling is gonna win unless the toss is paranoid and gets 6 cannons or it's scouted.

I'm just pretty much saying that it's not a instawin build
"tobi is ur iq 9999? cuz i think it might be u so smart wowowow." -Artosis
MONSTEr2
Profile Joined February 2009
United States43 Posts
July 15 2009 14:16 GMT
#12
why are u doing 60 lings its never more than 24
Navane
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Netherlands2748 Posts
July 15 2009 14:19 GMT
#13
24 sounds more like 2 hatch? that's 6 x 2 lings per hatch, isnt that a bit few? I stop droning after 12, only lings from there on. I'm talking deliberatly all-in, not like seizing the opportunity (once I see FE that is)
LuDwig-
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Italy1143 Posts
July 15 2009 14:31 GMT
#14
On July 15 2009 21:50 Cloud wrote:
bbsing everyone.


tnt)steven( is a italian player who reach A- in pgtour and now he is B- this season making ONLY bbs
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=120015&currentpage=98<--Search the HotBid's Post
jhNz
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
Germany2762 Posts
July 15 2009 14:32 GMT
#15
On July 15 2009 23:31 LuDwig- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 15 2009 21:50 Cloud wrote:
bbsing everyone.


tnt)steven( is a italian player who reach A- in pgtour and now he is B- this season making ONLY bbs


i'm wondering how much of an achievement that is.
http://twitter.com/jhNz
inertinept
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
Bangladesh1195 Posts
July 15 2009 14:37 GMT
#16
1. pros dont use it because they can outmicro slow lings with probe. if you see ling speed that early vs FE something is fishy.

2. if you are playing blind as protoss, it is not as easy as people are making it out to be. you can't just expect it every game and expect to win vs equal/better players. 'SUP JUST DROPPED 5 CANNONS I B SAFE NOW LOLZ'
yea guess what? even 3-4 cannons instead of the standard 2 at the beginning puts you behind in tech and people know what im talking about when 30 seconds can make all the difference when those mutas pop(standard follow up to this)

i am b- and lose to this sometimes. you dont need to be a dumbass to lose to it. its a gambler's build and sometimes they will be the one to get lucky.

Disclaimer: this can all be avoided if you learn to dodge lings with probe scout
With a gust of wind, perhaps.
LuDwig-
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Italy1143 Posts
July 15 2009 14:43 GMT
#17
3 hatch ling can work on high level but it is really rare coz it need to have deny any sort of scout and the p player have to play confident and not defensive
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=120015&currentpage=98<--Search the HotBid's Post
Cloud
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Sexico5880 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-07-15 15:26:05
July 15 2009 15:23 GMT
#18
On July 15 2009 23:37 inertinept wrote:
1. pros dont use it because they can outmicro slow lings with probe. if you see ling speed that early vs FE something is fishy.

2. if you are playing blind as protoss, it is not as easy as people are making it out to be. you can't just expect it every game and expect to win vs equal/better players. 'SUP JUST DROPPED 5 CANNONS I B SAFE NOW LOLZ'
yea guess what? even 3-4 cannons instead of the standard 2 at the beginning puts you behind in tech and people know what im talking about when 30 seconds can make all the difference when those mutas pop(standard follow up to this)

i am b- and lose to this sometimes. you dont need to be a dumbass to lose to it. its a gambler's build and sometimes they will be the one to get lucky.

Disclaimer: this can all be avoided if you learn to dodge lings with probe scout


As far as i know placing 3 cannons was the standard vs any kind of ling speed opening, if you only place 2 cannons, youre being greedy and yes if the zerg follows up with standard play you are actually ahead.

3 cannons, constant zeals after the gate and a decent reaction time with probes and your wall is impregnable vs lings. And if the zerg followed by something standard youre not behind because of his opening and you can actually use your zealots for something.

An alternative to zeals can be a really fast stargate which can scout stuff like 2 hatch hydra breaks after a pool speed opening before the hydras are already in your face, should probably work vs 3 hatch lings too.
BlueLaguna on West, msg for game.
s.a.y
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
Croatia3840 Posts
July 15 2009 15:27 GMT
#19
On July 15 2009 23:32 jhNz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 15 2009 23:31 LuDwig- wrote:
On July 15 2009 21:50 Cloud wrote:
bbsing everyone.


tnt)steven( is a italian player who reach A- in pgtour and now he is B- this season making ONLY bbs


i'm wondering how much of an achievement that is.


it's sure better then my D+
I am not good with quotes
ZZangDreamjOy
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Canada959 Posts
July 15 2009 15:48 GMT
#20
I have a weird 3 hatch ling build, the lings hit later, but you have an eco, and you can still break his natural.
You pump drones from 4 to 27 supply, going normal 3 hatch muta build, make a few lings to kill his probe, and make a sunken to stop scouting.
Now from 27 till 43, you pump lings with speed while teching lair/spire.
You'll hit with about 32 lings right before his sair is out, and you should have a spire coming up.
HitEmUp
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