EPT
ZvP 3-hatch ling all-in vs FE
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Navane
Netherlands2749 Posts
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Cloud
Sexico5880 Posts
Because you have to count on your opponent playing like a dumbass to do it? I mean sure you can get all the way to B- (some guys have) if you do nothing but 3 hatch ling or proxy 9/9 gates or 10/15 vs terrans on pvt or bbsing everyone. | ||
l10f
United States3241 Posts
maybe that's why I'm always stuck at C- and never improve | ||
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7mk
Germany10157 Posts
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tobi9999
United States1966 Posts
dont be greedy get 3 cannons, have a couple of zeals, pull your probes, and the cannons arent touched and the lings all die. then get a scout because zergs who 3hatch ling deserve to be punished | ||
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CrimsonLotus
Colombia1123 Posts
-Knowing what the Zerg is doing is really hard, because with the level of multitask that you have at D level, your scout is not gonna survive very long, and once it dies, you are basically blind. -D level players are greedy, they dont like to take those extra safety measures because they feel it would hurt their economy and reduce their chance of winning a macro game by around 4%, and that is unacceptable. -Protoss building positioning tends to be less than ideal, because it takes experience and study to learn to always do it correctly, something D level players dont have. | ||
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ghermination
United States2851 Posts
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Navane
Netherlands2749 Posts
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Cheeseball
Australia208 Posts
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thunk
United States6233 Posts
On July 15 2009 22:17 CrimsonLotus wrote: I dont know at what level you play, but a D level i can tell you this: -Knowing what the Zerg is doing is really hard, because with the level of multitask that you have at D level, your scout is not gonna survive very long, and once it dies, you are basically blind. -D level players are greedy, they dont like to take those extra safety measures because they feel it would hurt their economy and reduce their chance of winning a macro game by around 4%, and that is unacceptable. -Protoss building positioning tends to be less than ideal, because it takes experience and study to learn to always do it correctly, something D level players dont have. CrimsonLotus has said it best so far, but I'd like to re-emphasize the simcity part. Good Simcities are the key to beating a 3 hatch-ling all-in. It has a worse probability of working at a Pro level than a hydra break because most progamers can scout it and defend it easily. | ||
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tobi9999
United States1966 Posts
On July 15 2009 22:28 Navane wrote: well, 3 cannons and a few probs and zealots is not gonna cut it vs 60 lings i think? actually it does, with a good simcity 1 zealot > 12 lings. unless you attack the buildings and lose half the lings to cannon fire. + by the time you get 60 lings I can guarantee 40 dmg imba DTS will be blocking the cannons and sairs will be killing your overlords. generally you attack when their corsair first sees all the lings( you have 30-40 then ) but sometimes on some maps i'm not gonna lie, your gonna get lucky and 3hatch ling is gonna win unless the toss is paranoid and gets 6 cannons or it's scouted. I'm just pretty much saying that it's not a instawin build | ||
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MONSTEr2
United States43 Posts
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Navane
Netherlands2749 Posts
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LuDwig-
Italy1143 Posts
On July 15 2009 21:50 Cloud wrote: bbsing everyone. tnt)steven( is a italian player who reach A- in pgtour and now he is B- this season making ONLY bbs | ||
jhNz
Germany2762 Posts
On July 15 2009 23:31 LuDwig- wrote: tnt)steven( is a italian player who reach A- in pgtour and now he is B- this season making ONLY bbs i'm wondering how much of an achievement that is. | ||
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inertinept
Bangladesh1195 Posts
2. if you are playing blind as protoss, it is not as easy as people are making it out to be. you can't just expect it every game and expect to win vs equal/better players. 'SUP JUST DROPPED 5 CANNONS I B SAFE NOW LOLZ' yea guess what? even 3-4 cannons instead of the standard 2 at the beginning puts you behind in tech and people know what im talking about when 30 seconds can make all the difference when those mutas pop(standard follow up to this) i am b- and lose to this sometimes. you dont need to be a dumbass to lose to it. its a gambler's build and sometimes they will be the one to get lucky. Disclaimer: this can all be avoided if you learn to dodge lings with probe scout | ||
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LuDwig-
Italy1143 Posts
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Cloud
Sexico5880 Posts
On July 15 2009 23:37 inertinept wrote: 1. pros dont use it because they can outmicro slow lings with probe. if you see ling speed that early vs FE something is fishy. 2. if you are playing blind as protoss, it is not as easy as people are making it out to be. you can't just expect it every game and expect to win vs equal/better players. 'SUP JUST DROPPED 5 CANNONS I B SAFE NOW LOLZ' yea guess what? even 3-4 cannons instead of the standard 2 at the beginning puts you behind in tech and people know what im talking about when 30 seconds can make all the difference when those mutas pop(standard follow up to this) i am b- and lose to this sometimes. you dont need to be a dumbass to lose to it. its a gambler's build and sometimes they will be the one to get lucky. Disclaimer: this can all be avoided if you learn to dodge lings with probe scout As far as i know placing 3 cannons was the standard vs any kind of ling speed opening, if you only place 2 cannons, youre being greedy and yes if the zerg follows up with standard play you are actually ahead. 3 cannons, constant zeals after the gate and a decent reaction time with probes and your wall is impregnable vs lings. And if the zerg followed by something standard youre not behind because of his opening and you can actually use your zealots for something. An alternative to zeals can be a really fast stargate which can scout stuff like 2 hatch hydra breaks after a pool speed opening before the hydras are already in your face, should probably work vs 3 hatch lings too. | ||
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s.a.y
Croatia3840 Posts
On July 15 2009 23:32 jhNz wrote: i'm wondering how much of an achievement that is. it's sure better then my D+ | ||
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ZZangDreamjOy
Canada959 Posts
You pump drones from 4 to 27 supply, going normal 3 hatch muta build, make a few lings to kill his probe, and make a sunken to stop scouting. Now from 27 till 43, you pump lings with speed while teching lair/spire. You'll hit with about 32 lings right before his sair is out, and you should have a spire coming up. | ||
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Camlito
Australia4040 Posts
On July 16 2009 00:48 ZZangDreamjOy wrote: I have a weird 3 hatch ling build, the lings hit later, but you have an eco, and you can still break his natural. You pump drones from 4 to 27 supply, going normal 3 hatch muta build, make a few lings to kill his probe, and make a sunken to stop scouting. Now from 27 till 43, you pump lings with speed while teching lair/spire. You'll hit with about 32 lings right before his sair is out, and you should have a spire coming up. Yes that's the delayed 3 hat ling, shine[kal] used it a bit, once vs jangbi on neo harmony. | ||
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LuDwig-
Italy1143 Posts
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ZZangDreamjOy
Canada959 Posts
On July 16 2009 01:03 Camlito wrote: Yes that's the delayed 3 hat ling, shine[kal] used it a bit, once vs jangbi on neo harmony. Thanks, didn't know where I saw it. I find it works a lot better then all in 3 hatch lings, the timing is good, and that you can follow up with an actual eco. | ||
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LuDwig-
Italy1143 Posts
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Jonoman92
United States9107 Posts
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samachking
Bahrain4949 Posts
On July 16 2009 02:08 ZZangDreamjOy wrote: Thanks, didn't know where I saw it. I find it works a lot better then all in 3 hatch lings, the timing is good, and that you can follow up with an actual eco. That build was actually really popular last season in Clubday MSL. Savior used it vs Bisu, Lux used it a lot vs protoss and JD used it too even vs Bisu in the GOM showmatch. The only disadvantage with this build it transitions to 4hat lurk/hydra/ling instead of the standard 5hat hydra which is used this season. | ||
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LuDwig-
Italy1143 Posts
On July 16 2009 04:23 Jonoman92 wrote: Progamer P's generally have perfect FE building placement since they practice it for hours a day. Generally most foreign protoss (except for perhaps the top tier) do not have such perfect placement which can make 3 hatch ling all-in be a very effctive BO. <---he got the answers | ||
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Revabug
United Kingdom147 Posts
But in ZvT I think it's extremely deadly.. | ||
OneOther
United States10774 Posts
On July 16 2009 04:23 Jonoman92 wrote: Progamer P's generally have perfect FE building placement since they practice it for hours a day. Generally most foreign protoss (except for perhaps the top tier) do not have such perfect placement which can make 3 hatch ling all-in be a very effctive BO. yeah, i really need to fix my awful habit of improvising the placement every time lol | ||
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Shauni
4077 Posts
On July 16 2009 04:23 Jonoman92 wrote: Progamer P's generally have perfect FE building placement since they practice it for hours a day. Generally most foreign protoss (except for perhaps the top tier) do not have such perfect placement which can make 3 hatch ling all-in be a very effctive BO. However, some maps and some positions makes it viable to do 3 hatch ling regardless of perfect wall. For example, 12 o clock on destination is impossible to have a really good simcity on, resulting in more people do this kind of build when you spawn at 12. Almost every korean zerg I play do this 3 hatch ling before mutas there. Well, destination might have been a bad example since it's only difficult simcity well relative to the 6 o clock position. But say 12 o clock python, all rush hour positions and so on. 3 hatch ling might still be useful there even though you have 'perfect' placement. | ||
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7mk
Germany10157 Posts
On July 16 2009 02:08 ZZangDreamjOy wrote: Thanks, didn't know where I saw it. I find it works a lot better then all in 3 hatch lings, the timing is good, and that you can follow up with an actual eco. Liquipedia plz ^^ (I mean theoretically I could add it as well but since I just read about this bo it would seem kinda silly) | ||
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