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Range Hydras > Mines

Blogs > Misrah
Post a Reply
1 2 Next All
Misrah
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States1695 Posts
March 31 2009 18:00 GMT
#1
For some reason- no one thought that my interesting counter to mech, and fantasy build is a good idea. No comments, no nothing. So for all of you zerg players out there, that are having a problem with mech, or with destination ZvT. This is for you. I hope that this time, people will actually take the time to look at this!

The thing that you need to remember while giong into a mine field with your hydras- ATTACK MOVE, DON'T MOVE!!

[image loading]

[image loading]

[image loading]


***
A thread vaguely bashing SC2? SWARM ON, LOW POST COUNT BRETHREN! DEFEND THE GLORIOUS GAME THAT IS OUR LIVELIHOOD
tube
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States1475 Posts
March 31 2009 18:14 GMT
#2
I looked at it and play zerg,
It's no pants.
Two in harmony surpasses one in perfection.
EscPlan9
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States2777 Posts
March 31 2009 18:16 GMT
#3
APRIL FOOLS!!!

oh wait... wut...
Undefeated TL Tecmo Super Bowl League Champion
Hot_Bid
Profile Blog Joined October 2003
Braavos36379 Posts
March 31 2009 18:25 GMT
#4
a better question is, do hydras with speed do better against mines than hydras without speed?
@Hot_Bid on Twitter - ESPORTS life since 2010 - http://i.imgur.com/U2psw.png
Misrah
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States1695 Posts
March 31 2009 18:29 GMT
#5
Range motherfucker do you have it?

Also Hot_Bid- range is far superior!
A thread vaguely bashing SC2? SWARM ON, LOW POST COUNT BRETHREN! DEFEND THE GLORIOUS GAME THAT IS OUR LIVELIHOOD
Misrah
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States1695 Posts
March 31 2009 18:30 GMT
#6
Why is this blog not 5 star?
A thread vaguely bashing SC2? SWARM ON, LOW POST COUNT BRETHREN! DEFEND THE GLORIOUS GAME THAT IS OUR LIVELIHOOD
niteReloaded
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Croatia5282 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-03-31 18:48:56
March 31 2009 18:48 GMT
#7
On April 01 2009 03:25 Hot_Bid wrote:
a better question is, do hydras with speed do better against mines than hydras without speed?

An intuitive answer for me would be that slow hydras do better than speedy ones.

will watch reps after.
micronesia
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States24705 Posts
March 31 2009 19:19 GMT
#8
On April 01 2009 03:00 Misrah wrote:
The thing that you need to remember while giong into a mine field with your hydras- ATTACK MOVE, DON'T MOVE!!

It was so difficult for me not to troll you for this comment.

Anyone who doesn't know that (just got back from the videogame store) will figure it out in one minute.
ModeratorThere are animal crackers for people and there are people crackers for animals.
koreasilver
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
9109 Posts
March 31 2009 19:34 GMT
#9
The main reason as to why no one replied to your "oh hey my build is good against mech!" is because it's obvious to everyone that hydra builds are better against mech than bio. That's like saying "hey, my 1hatch lair spire build is good against zerg".
Misrah
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States1695 Posts
March 31 2009 19:41 GMT
#10
I realize that hydra are used against mech. What i am trying to say, is look at the strategy. With this, zerg can go on the offensive against mech, instead of going Day9 macro defensive style. It's just another way to play, another angle that zerg players now have against mech.
A thread vaguely bashing SC2? SWARM ON, LOW POST COUNT BRETHREN! DEFEND THE GLORIOUS GAME THAT IS OUR LIVELIHOOD
Zoler
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Sweden6339 Posts
March 31 2009 20:40 GMT
#11
Can you sum it up? You have range and attack moving into mines? That's it?
Lim Yo Hwan forever!
Misrah
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States1695 Posts
March 31 2009 20:45 GMT
#12
If you need an overview- you can check out the thread- It details everything:

Here is the OP: (the three replays that i have just posted are imo better than the ones in the OP)


+ Show Spoiler +

On March 27 2009 14:39 Misrah wrote:
It's been a while TL. I haven't posted in the strategy section for quite awhile. While i was gone however, i have been doing some work. I am really going to try and cut down on how long this 'guide' is because hey, i realize that i am defiantly not good enough to be talking about starcraft for 3+ pages. (I will leave that to Day, Chill, Cloud, Osty ext.)

Getting on topic-

I have made a new cocaine build. That *hopefully* can have some use in play, and isn't a cheap trick you can use to kill noobs. As always comments, criticisms and the like are always appreciated.

My new Crank idea has a few interesting theories, and while i have tested them out in games (rep pack at the bottom of the page) I feel that someone that is far more knowledgeable than i can probably do more, and make a cleaner looking game than I. What i am trying to say is that, as usual i would love it if people would be willing to give this build a try, and better players especially- tell me what your thoughts are.

Zerg on Crank has an interesting style to it. I had been noticing recently that many terrans are now enjoying the mech game against zerg. With maps like destination, i have talked to numerous zerg players that say they have a problem dealing with mech, and or always say they 'hate' playing a mechanic terran. I have to say that this build is more slightly geared towards a mechanic terran, however i have used this against standard bio- and have had good results as well.

Now onto the build. I am trying to use an early game zerg unit (hydra) more effectively in ZvT play during the early game. Hydra have 4 range, and so do marines. With a range upgrade, hydra can get a +1 range bonus, making their range 5. I realize that marines have the same upgrade- however i have been noticing that terrans opt for stim first, and then getting +1 range. So i began to think about how i could use this.

Build order thoughts and ideas-

It has always seemed to me, that unless zerg wants to play a really aggressive 2 hatch build against terran- the only other way to play is 3 hatch. As you all know, 3 hatch is standard, and really when any zerg player goes 3 hatch, it is always best to try and not build more than a few lings. That way you can drone whore, and just build a sunken or two if you need them for defense.

What i don't like about this mindset- is that zerg doesn't have any type of 'halfway' builds. Zergling rushes are too all in, and a good terran will simply scv block and then you will quickly become economically behind. Going 2 hatch muta or 2 hatch lurker is also a very aggressive game, where your muta micro had to pull you into the lead, and lurkers are just too inferior IMO to really be tried against good opponents. I feel that tanks and or a few drop ships are all terran needs to thwart your lurker contain. Not to mention the fact that terran can simply scan your base, and see exactly what you are doing.

So i began asking myself, if there was a way to play a 'softer' type of game. I wanted to have my early game zerg be aggressive in the early game- yet still retain some economical advantage. I realize that what i just said is impossible, but i think that with small sacrifices to both, instead of either all in macro, or attack mode could be a useful tool in the zerg arsenal.

Why Hydralisks?

Hydra are by far my favorite unit that zerg has. I don't know why- but i have always enjoyed their sounds, and attack. I feel that in the early game, zerglings are inferior to marines. Now many say that so are hydra, because of M&M DPS (damage per second) output. While i do agree to the DPS argument to some extent, i think that in the early game, where there are few medics (and now with the resurgence of mech- barely any to speak of) hydra can do very very well against marines.

To do well against marines, i think that hydra need one huge advantage- Range. In my build, i have consistently upgraded hydra range before terran has theirs. This +1 range is actually quite useful- and i feel that zerg can capitalize on this. With range, and proper micro- hydra seem to be quite a match for marines.

Numbers
Hydra Cost: 75 min 25 gas
Marine Cost: 50 min

Hydra range: 4 (+1 with upgrade)
Marine range: 4 (+1 with upgrade)

Hydras kill marines in: 8 shots, so if you have a group of 8 you can be one shotting marines.

You need at least 4 drones mining minerals and 1/1.5 mining gas to pump hydra off of one hatch.

The Build
12 hatch
11 pool
two more drones (so 12 supply)
with your next 50 min, start your extractor
continue to make non stop drones form your hatch.
Once the extractor pops put 3 drones on gas untill 50 gas- and pull them off
Make your Den
When the pool pops make 1 set of zergllings
When your nat hatch pops pull 2-3 drones and send them to mine
14 pop get make a lord
Keep droning up, and with your next 300 min get your 3rd hatch. (i place it at my nat- however i feel that it could also be safe if it were placed at a third.)
once your den pops put 3 drones back on gas
*important* now divide your hatcheries. One hatch continually pumps hydralisk, while your other (natural hatch) pups drones.

Keep up this split build until you reach 150 gas- with your first 150 gas (while still pumping hydra) get hydra range (hot key G)

When your 3rd hatch pops- you can either make continuous hydra, or make drones. either way the build will still easily work.
With your next 100 gas go for you lair.
With your next 300 min go for your 4th hatch (at an expo)
Get your 2nd gas when your lair is completed

At this point in the build, you should have about 12 or more hydra (depending on how many hatcheries you relocated to hydra pumping.) As soon as your +1 range completes you should move to attack terran. Try and harass. You are simply trying to make them build bunkers. (if your playing destination- do nothing at all. Simply sit right before their bridge. ** Please watch my replays as they show the deadly effectiveness of your range hydras fighting marines in a choke.) I have still am unsure if you can out range a bunker with only 5 range. Range goons have 6- and can out range the bunker, only with proper micro. I have had mixed results. Make sure to try and micro your hydra, and have them shoot as a group (especially if there are medics present). Otherwise, if you feel that you do not want to attack- that can be fine as well. You are holding ground, and terran will think that you are doing some 2 hatch lurker build- and be quite happy to sit safe inside of his base.

If terran is going mech- you can simply waltz into his base and do what ever you feel. Tanks have a range of 7- so you can snipe a terran wall, if it is not ramped. If you rally your hydra to the front of his base, you will be able to contain terrans vult harass as well.

Once your lair has popped get a spire, and begin playing the game as if you were playing standard 3 hatch muta. You will have a very early 3rd, and should be able to supply a good amount of gas to your muta. I normally only get about 6/7 muta and then proceed to ravage his base. If i was careful with my hydra, and still have a group or 1.5 groups left over, and the terran is mechanic, i can run over them. The beauty is this- as soon as your muta are in his base, you can decide what you want to do with your first 200 gas. Get lurker upgrade? for the bio terran, or simply get hydra speed for the meching terran. Your choice.

Once you hit this point in the game, continue to play as you normally would in a standard game.

Variations
I am still experimenting, with mass hydra and queen broodling for a zerg counter to mech, using this opening. I still need more testing and games before i bring this forward- feel free to give any thoughts ext.

Replays

* Please note that i suck, and am only playing low grade terrans. I did have the chance to play a 'supposed' B+ terran, but i played a terrible game. Of course if this rep is requested i will provide it.*


http://www.mediafire.com/file/d2y0tymlbxm/HydraMuta.rep
http://www.mediafire.com/file/yctwziqgwmj/HydraMuta2.rep
http://www.mediafire.com/file/dmjgnudjtk5/HydraMuta3.rep
http://www.mediafire.com/file/z4q5mgtdwkh/HydraMuta4.rep
http://www.mediafire.com/file/zyr4ymwmjt2/HydraMuta5.rep
http://www.mediafire.com/file/myrmm1mnyzt/HydraMuta6.rep
A thread vaguely bashing SC2? SWARM ON, LOW POST COUNT BRETHREN! DEFEND THE GLORIOUS GAME THAT IS OUR LIVELIHOOD
Itachii
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Poland12466 Posts
March 31 2009 20:53 GMT
#13
do hydras have legs?
La parole nous a été donnée pour déguiser notre pensée
niteReloaded
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Croatia5282 Posts
March 31 2009 20:58 GMT
#14
On April 01 2009 05:53 Itachii wrote:
do hydras have legs?

nah man, you're confused now. zealots have legs.
Itachii
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Poland12466 Posts
March 31 2009 21:07 GMT
#15
On April 01 2009 05:58 niteReloaded wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 01 2009 05:53 Itachii wrote:
do hydras have legs?

nah man, you're confused now. zealots have legs.

ok
La parole nous a été donnée pour déguiser notre pensée
Equaoh
Profile Joined October 2008
Canada427 Posts
March 31 2009 21:25 GMT
#16
Oh, oh, zerglings have legs, too!
What were we talking about again?
Odeur
Profile Joined October 2008
Taiwan58 Posts
March 31 2009 21:32 GMT
#17
marines too no? :o
niteReloaded
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Croatia5282 Posts
March 31 2009 21:38 GMT
#18
I just watched the reps.

I love the thinking out of the box, and I very much liked the games.

The one thing I have to say is, wouldn't you get raped by bio builds considering that the only thing you rely on (when assuming he's going fantasy build) is the wall-in?

However, even if that's the only trigger you have, I must admit people are rarely gonna wall off and then go bio. There's not much point in doing it unless playing a Best Of X series.

Suggestion:
I would love to see you work out a strategy that would squeze in a very quick slow-ovie drop, or possibly a queen and do a fancy infest after you damage the CC.

Overall, I like the freshness of this.

P.S.
Itachii,
did you get it was a joke or should I work on my delivery?
I love that 'pretending to be a complete idiot who thinks he's smart' humor.

Flight of the Conchordes anyone?
KurtistheTurtle
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States1966 Posts
March 31 2009 21:50 GMT
#19
On April 01 2009 03:00 Misrah wrote:
The thing that you need to remember while giong into a mine field with your hydras- ATTACK MOVE, DON'T MOVE!!

I don't believe you
“Reject your sense of injury and the injury itself disappears."
Cloud
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Sexico5880 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-03-31 22:12:53
March 31 2009 22:11 GMT
#20
Its best to upgrade just hydra speed and ovie speed and leave hydra range for when the terran is about to come out/when you have your 3rd up and running.

Range sucks when you have to be defensive with few hydras on distanced bases.
BlueLaguna on West, msg for game.
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