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What's this new 3 hatch -> 5 hatch hydra stuff with mutal ht snipe?
I mean when I first faced it, I was a C so they didn't execute it nicely enough, resulting in me a free win. but now that I am at C+ and facing some korean zergs, this is insane!
Is there any specific tips when facing this build? it seems very solid all around, and it stretches the protoss gas a lot. I need to prepare for lurkers, while protecting myself from possible mutalisks, or just plain mass hydras.
It's been very frustrating; PvZ used to be my best mu at around 70%, but now it's at 50-60..
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Mate, collecting and protecting your sairs should be your top priority
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On January 28 2009 07:18 imperfect wrote:
facing some korean
That's why you're losing.
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On January 28 2009 07:23 TheNikeYork wrote:That's why you're losing.
Please don't, it doesn't help anyone to say that. This thread is asking for help, jokes without advice can get you in some trouble.
I haven't played PvZ in ages since im a T now so I haven't faced it but you will need a good amount of sairs to defend against the muta's so your HT's don't get fucked up. Yes it does sound gas heavy to play against this strat so if it is possible at all to take a 3rd with a gas then go for it.
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United States17042 Posts
the first sair is still really really important. It depends on what kind of midgame strategy you chose (a rep would be really really nice), but let's cover the basics:
If you went sair/reaver, you should be harassing, and muta/hydra shouldn't really be a problem. If you went sair/dt, mass hydra can be a problem, but you should have ht out. Muta are also not a problem if you went sair dt.
I'm going to go ahead, and assume that you're trying for some sort of expo+some number of gates+ wep upgrade+ht+zeal speed.
If you do that, your first sair is still the most important unit. Ideally if you can keep it alive long enough, you should be able to see if they are going to just straight up mass hydra, or if they are going muta, or if they are going hydra/lurk. If you see muta, it's usually easier to just combine the first 2 or first 4 ht, so that you don't risk losing them. If they went muta, your opponents hydra numbers are going to be lower, so you shouldn't need the ht as long as you can get goon positioning with your speedzeals. After you have 2 archons and number of dragoons, you can keep some ht with your army, and you need to be really careful that they don't get sniped.
once again, it comes down to scouting. Keep the first sair alive, go to archons if you want to be super safe, and if you need a late obs (which sucks), it happens. The solution really depends on your early midgame strat, and since you didn't post a rep it's tough to say.
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Well the question is not how to react with certain build. It is WHICH build is the best against it?
Also, I would like to see this in strategy forum as the better strategists tend not to read the forum.
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United States17042 Posts
the best build against 5 hat hydra with muta? probably +1 speedzeal and 2 archons, no robo. This assumes that you hit the timing right before the zerg player starts powering hydra, and also doesn't have any tech. You also need to have your next 4 ht morphing into 2 archons at home, or something similar to prevent the muta that were supposed to be killing ht from countering and killing a ton of probes.
The strat forum is the best place for this kind of "how do you counter" post, although it is usually with a rep.
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On January 28 2009 08:05 GHOSTCLAW wrote:
the best build against 5 hat hydra with muta? probably +1 speedzeal and 2 archons, no robo. This assumes that you hit the timing right before the zerg player starts powering hydra, and also doesn't have any tech. You also need to have your next 4 ht morphing into 2 archons at home, or something similar to prevent the muta that were supposed to be killing ht from countering and killing a ton of probes.
The strat forum is the best place for this kind of "how do you counter" post, although it is usually with a rep.
what the fuck dude? You intend to hit him with zealarchon before he powers hydra, and still prepare for a mutaswitch at home? I think you either have misunderstood how the timings works out or you must have mistyped something here. the mutaswitch comes first after having powered hydra for a good while, you don't have enough gas to dualtech and switch before the first archonszealattack destroys your natural.
To OP: you need sairs with your army and avoid getting scourged really. 4/5 is usually enough to stop zerg from mutaswitching until he have scourged your sairs. if you lose aircontrol you are fucked against good mutamicro, so don't let it happen.
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I hate this build too. It feels like you get raped and raped over and over. In my opinion, I mess up though because the zerg seems to go for just an "econ heavy" build before getting alot of units out(not alot of agressiveness) I start to take my third because of this then get raped by hydras wiht my pants down! >_> I fail to realize though that 3Z base to 2P base is economically even. All I need to do is get some more gateways down to counter the 5 hatches that are pumping out hydras
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Sounds like a lot of gas... If scouts were useful, i'd say build some scouts and snipe their gas/drones/hatchery
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On January 28 2009 10:42 Racenilatr wrote:
I hate this build too. It feels like you get raped and raped over and over. In my opinion, I mess up though because the zerg seems to go for just an "econ heavy" build before getting alot of units out(not alot of agressiveness) I start to take my third because of this then get raped by hydras wiht my pants down! >_> I fail to realize though that 3Z base to 2P base is economically even. All I need to do is get some more gateways down to counter the 5 hatches that are pumping out hydras
If Z is sitting on 3 hatches, making units but not aggressing, then macroing drones, could you scout his drone count / larvae production, and possibly sneak a faster 3rd?
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Dark Archons with Maelstorm. Just need 1, and its late enough for you to afford one.
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Get your storm right away and park your templar near cannons with 2 sair + goon on the gaurd. Storm the mutas if they suicide to kill the temp and then atleast they are dead. Move out when you've macroed enough army and your ready to take your 3rd and attack. If his mutas are still alive dont go out with 1 chon and just micro carefully against his muta or else he will kill them. Not much else to it.
Edit: also going no robo vs hydra+lair is stupid. If he has mutas and sees no robo he will make lurks and you will be fucked for an incredibly long time and he will be able to just expo and laugh at you as your either contained or you suicide at his main cuz you dont have obs =\.
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Ok so I let's say I see 3 hatch + spire and a den. I assume he goes mutalisks because all 9 larvas are eggs, and he has taken the gas at natural fast as well.
at this point i have cannons + sair or two plus more building, and my HTs about to pop. All the time when the mutalisks come, they can't do dmg to my econ; but they can pick out HTs as they come out. Am I teching too slow or what? or is this normal?
i mean I always try to hit the zerg before he starts gathering hydras, so that my archon is cost effective, and zealots can clean up zerglings and the few hydras. Is the 2archon+zealot push supposed to be for this? I stopped using that build because I found it too hard to play against 5 hatch hydra.
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EPT
