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On December 29 2008 16:51 IdrA wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2008 16:22 Dazed_Spy wrote: American pre Civil war slavery- in between, depending on the owner, etc. Those mansion folk- bad.  ...........? captured shipped across the ocean in a boat with hundred of other people in horrible conditions hard labor no chance of freedom and nothing in return but bare minimum shelter and food subject to your masters every whim ya that could go either way for me too. Your talking about the process in which the slaves were brought about, not the actual process of their enslavement. Some slave owners were quite kind to their saves, treating them as one of the family- many actually secretly married their slaves and had children with them for god sakes. Others were exceptionally brutal, many in between.
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where's the option for awesome?
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United States24813 Posts
On December 29 2008 16:54 ahrara_ wrote:
where's the option for awesome?
(Vote): Good
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On December 29 2008 16:54 Dazed_Spy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2008 16:51 IdrA wrote:On December 29 2008 16:22 Dazed_Spy wrote: American pre Civil war slavery- in between, depending on the owner, etc. Those mansion folk- bad. ...........? captured shipped across the ocean in a boat with hundred of other people in horrible conditions hard labor no chance of freedom and nothing in return but bare minimum shelter and food subject to your masters every whim ya that could go either way for me too. Your talking about the process in which the slaves were brought about, not the actual process of their enslavement. Some slave owners were quite kind to their saves, treating them as one of the family- many actually secretly married their slaves and had children with them for god sakes. Others were exceptionally brutal, many in between.
"hard labor no chance of freedom and nothing in return but bare minimum shelter and food"
"subject to your masters every whim"
is not the process of being enslaved, although thats irrelevant because part of slavery is how you become a slave.
and it doesnt really matter if they choose to treat you nicely or not. you want to be someones property? even if theyre nice as can be, piss em off and they can send you back to hard labor or just have you killed. youd be ok with having no control over your life as long as the person who told you what to do was nice about it?
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On December 29 2008 16:54 Dazed_Spy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2008 16:51 IdrA wrote:On December 29 2008 16:22 Dazed_Spy wrote: American pre Civil war slavery- in between, depending on the owner, etc. Those mansion folk- bad. ...........? captured shipped across the ocean in a boat with hundred of other people in horrible conditions hard labor no chance of freedom and nothing in return but bare minimum shelter and food subject to your masters every whim ya that could go either way for me too. Your talking about the process in which the slaves were brought about, not the actual process of their enslavement. Some slave owners were quite kind to their saves, treating them as one of the family- many actually secretly married their slaves and had children with them for god sakes. Others were exceptionally brutal, many in between.
the process that the slaves were brought about was required for the slavery. so that makes it a process of their enslavement. therefore pre civil war slavery was definitely not in between and obviously bad. making someone work against their will is not right. like why am i saying this... go watch roots
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yeah, i bet those slaves with great owners would always rather be slaves than be free
what?
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On December 29 2008 17:08 IdrA wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2008 16:54 Dazed_Spy wrote:On December 29 2008 16:51 IdrA wrote:On December 29 2008 16:22 Dazed_Spy wrote: American pre Civil war slavery- in between, depending on the owner, etc. Those mansion folk- bad. ...........? captured shipped across the ocean in a boat with hundred of other people in horrible conditions hard labor no chance of freedom and nothing in return but bare minimum shelter and food subject to your masters every whim ya that could go either way for me too. Your talking about the process in which the slaves were brought about, not the actual process of their enslavement. Some slave owners were quite kind to their saves, treating them as one of the family- many actually secretly married their slaves and had children with them for god sakes. Others were exceptionally brutal, many in between. "hard labor no chance of freedom and nothing in return but bare minimum shelter and food" "subject to your masters every whim" is not the process of being enslaved, although thats irrelevant because part of slavery is how you become a slave. and it doesnt really matter if they choose to treat you nicely or not. you want to be someones property? even if theyre nice as can be, piss em off and they can send you back to hard labor or just have you killed. youd be ok with having no control over your life as long as the person who told you what to do was nice about it? K, you are clearly missing the point of this thread. The question was not: "Would you mind being a slave?" It was "Is slavery good or bad". Yeah, being a slave, regardless of time period [though rome is questionable] would suck. Is it bad or good? I don't really think that can be answered in moral terms, because Slavery can do both good and bad to all involved. It can be a process where a person is hardly at all bound to the whims of the master, and restrictions on their life are essentially ignored, an easy form of economic advancement while keeping a roof over your head in harsh economic times- that could see you starve and die as a freed man, like in Roman times, or you could absolute restrictions on your life. On December 29 2008 17:11 ulszz wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2008 16:54 Dazed_Spy wrote:On December 29 2008 16:51 IdrA wrote:On December 29 2008 16:22 Dazed_Spy wrote: American pre Civil war slavery- in between, depending on the owner, etc. Those mansion folk- bad. ...........? captured shipped across the ocean in a boat with hundred of other people in horrible conditions hard labor no chance of freedom and nothing in return but bare minimum shelter and food subject to your masters every whim ya that could go either way for me too. Your talking about the process in which the slaves were brought about, not the actual process of their enslavement. Some slave owners were quite kind to their saves, treating them as one of the family- many actually secretly married their slaves and had children with them for god sakes. Others were exceptionally brutal, many in between. the process that the slaves were brought about was required for the slavery. so that makes it a process of their enslavement. therefore pre civil war slavery was definitely not in between and obviously bad. making someone work against their will is not right. like why am i saying this... go watch roots No, when were talking about slavery were talking about slavery, not enslavement. If you look at the way they were forced into being slaves you have to start questioning every single war that occured throughout history, nit picking weather that particular event was morally objectionable or not. Weather the punishment was suitable [perhaps those that were enslaved had slaughtered a city? Is it ok then?]. Does slavery become more right or wrong if your born into it rather than captured?
No, thats not relevant. Whats relevant is the situations you experience as an actual slave. Making someone work against their will has many positives for the economy, and often has many positives for the person actually enslaves. There are literally thousands of examples of Roman Slaves becoming fabulously rich- far more than free'd men of the time. Its all about context for god sakes. Nothing can be generalized, not even slavery.
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I think the main point of the poll is whether it's better to be a slave in better living conditions than free in a really impoverished setting, as the article considers.
To that extent... well it's all very conditional but in this girl's case, slavery was probably better. Yes, she was treated like shit, but at least she had a way more comfortable living and she probably would've had to go through a lot more streneous labor back with her family.
However, this is not considering her emotions, so I dunno.
On December 29 2008 17:18 Dazed_Spy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2008 17:08 IdrA wrote:On December 29 2008 16:54 Dazed_Spy wrote:On December 29 2008 16:51 IdrA wrote:On December 29 2008 16:22 Dazed_Spy wrote: American pre Civil war slavery- in between, depending on the owner, etc. Those mansion folk- bad. ...........? captured shipped across the ocean in a boat with hundred of other people in horrible conditions hard labor no chance of freedom and nothing in return but bare minimum shelter and food subject to your masters every whim ya that could go either way for me too. Your talking about the process in which the slaves were brought about, not the actual process of their enslavement. Some slave owners were quite kind to their saves, treating them as one of the family- many actually secretly married their slaves and had children with them for god sakes. Others were exceptionally brutal, many in between. "hard labor no chance of freedom and nothing in return but bare minimum shelter and food" "subject to your masters every whim" is not the process of being enslaved, although thats irrelevant because part of slavery is how you become a slave. and it doesnt really matter if they choose to treat you nicely or not. you want to be someones property? even if theyre nice as can be, piss em off and they can send you back to hard labor or just have you killed. youd be ok with having no control over your life as long as the person who told you what to do was nice about it? K, you are clearly missing the point of this thread. The question was not: "Would you mind being a slave?" It was "Is slavery good or bad". Yeah, being a slave, regardless of time period [though rome is questionable] would suck. Is it bad or good? I don't really think that can be answered in moral terms, because Slavery can do both good and bad to all involved. It can be a process where a person is hardly at all bound to the whims of the master, and restrictions on their life are essentially ignored, an easy form of economic advancement while keeping a roof over your head in harsh economic times- that could see you starve and die as a freed man, like in Roman times, or you could absolute restrictions on your life.
He did not miss the point of the thread at all, you just are unable to comprehend that slavery being good or bad DOES in fact depend on how the actual slave feels. Suprisingly enough, they have emotions too.
And let's be real here- nice slaveowners were definitely in the far minority. I am sure that barely any slave actually enjoyed being a slave.
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On December 29 2008 17:18 Dazed_Spy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 29 2008 17:08 IdrA wrote:On December 29 2008 16:54 Dazed_Spy wrote:On December 29 2008 16:51 IdrA wrote:On December 29 2008 16:22 Dazed_Spy wrote: American pre Civil war slavery- in between, depending on the owner, etc. Those mansion folk- bad. ...........? captured shipped across the ocean in a boat with hundred of other people in horrible conditions hard labor no chance of freedom and nothing in return but bare minimum shelter and food subject to your masters every whim ya that could go either way for me too. Your talking about the process in which the slaves were brought about, not the actual process of their enslavement. Some slave owners were quite kind to their saves, treating them as one of the family- many actually secretly married their slaves and had children with them for god sakes. Others were exceptionally brutal, many in between. "hard labor no chance of freedom and nothing in return but bare minimum shelter and food" "subject to your masters every whim" is not the process of being enslaved, although thats irrelevant because part of slavery is how you become a slave. and it doesnt really matter if they choose to treat you nicely or not. you want to be someones property? even if theyre nice as can be, piss em off and they can send you back to hard labor or just have you killed. youd be ok with having no control over your life as long as the person who told you what to do was nice about it? K, you are clearly missing the point of this thread. The question was not: "Would you mind being a slave?" It was "Is slavery good or bad". Yeah, being a slave, regardless of time period [though rome is questionable] would suck. Is it bad or good? I don't really think that can be answered in moral terms, because Slavery can do both good and bad to all involved. It can be a process where a person is hardly at all bound to the whims of the master, and restrictions on their life are essentially ignored, an easy form of economic advancement while keeping a roof over your head in harsh economic times- that could see you starve and die as a freed man, like in Roman times, or you could absolute restrictions on your life. Show nested quote +On December 29 2008 17:11 ulszz wrote:On December 29 2008 16:54 Dazed_Spy wrote:On December 29 2008 16:51 IdrA wrote:On December 29 2008 16:22 Dazed_Spy wrote: American pre Civil war slavery- in between, depending on the owner, etc. Those mansion folk- bad. ...........? captured shipped across the ocean in a boat with hundred of other people in horrible conditions hard labor no chance of freedom and nothing in return but bare minimum shelter and food subject to your masters every whim ya that could go either way for me too. Your talking about the process in which the slaves were brought about, not the actual process of their enslavement. Some slave owners were quite kind to their saves, treating them as one of the family- many actually secretly married their slaves and had children with them for god sakes. Others were exceptionally brutal, many in between. the process that the slaves were brought about was required for the slavery. so that makes it a process of their enslavement. therefore pre civil war slavery was definitely not in between and obviously bad. making someone work against their will is not right. like why am i saying this... go watch roots No, when were talking about slavery were talking about slavery, not enslavement. If you look at the way they were forced into being slaves you have to start questioning every single war that occured throughout history, nit picking weather that particular event was morally objectionable or not. Weather the punishment was suitable [perhaps those that were enslaved had slaughtered a city? Is it ok then?]. Does slavery become more right or wrong if your born into it rather than captured? No, thats not relevant. Whats relevant is the situations you experience as an actual slave. Making someone work against their will has many positives for the economy, and often has many positives for the person actually enslaves. There are literally thousands of examples of Roman Slaves becoming fabulously rich- far more than free'd men of the time. Its all about context for god sakes. Nothing can be generalized, not even slavery.
your basis for your argument is the semantics of the question. "No, when were talking about slavery were talking about slavery, not enslavement" enslavement is part of slavery.
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Everybody has to work, have a job, etc.
Slaves just don't have a choice as to what job they do. It only takes that much to change someone from a slave to a free man/woman.
In the case of the girl maid, the mother made the choice. She picked money over her child.
Some cultures just view children as property. Other people from other cultures just can't tolerate that. You can't say the little girl working as a maid was completely bad, because her salary must have helped her family. She might even have agreed to such conditions on her own to help her family.
That tips the scale slightly in favor of good.
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On December 29 2008 17:46 Loanshark wrote:
Everybody has to work, have a job, etc.
Slaves just don't have a choice as to what job they do. It only takes that much to change someone from a slave to a free man/woman.
In the case of the girl maid, the mother made the choice. She picked money over her child.
Some cultures just view children as property. Other people from other cultures just can't tolerate that. You can't say the little girl working as a maid was completely bad, because her salary must have helped her family. She might even have agreed to such conditions on her own to help her family.
That tips the scale slightly in favor of good.
better than horrible is not good
if slavery is even better than living freely in poverty.
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On December 29 2008 16:19 Lemonwalrus wrote:
Not trying to start a big war or anything, but Fangster, who is it that you believe DO deserve to be slaves?
Two groups, although one might not be considered to be actual slavery.
1) Indentured people
Makes sense that if you owe something and can't pay it back you should be forced to pay it back with labor and such. Although this might not exactly qualify as slavery since it is possible to get out of it.
2)People fighting in war.
War itself is often a gross exploitation of human life, so those that actively participate in it should face consequences just as severe.
Also, anyone that pays taxes can be considered a slave to government. Although I don't actually believe that.
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This Micronesia guy is quite the troll!!
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Netherlands19141 Posts
I finally got one for christmas and it's been really helpful so far!
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huh, i voted good before watching it had serious articles or something in it.
wtf
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On December 29 2008 16:20 Lemonwalrus wrote:
I voted bad because there is a black guy right behind me....OH SHI......
ROFL
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On December 29 2008 17:17 fight_or_flight wrote:
Definitely bad. For those who vote good, you may think its a fine thing until you realize exactly what you are.
I think a lot of people voted good just "for fun." Just to screw with the poll because those people think that it's obvious that slavery is bad.
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On December 29 2008 15:42 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Who are the two people that voted good rofl
I did.
I dont see anything wrong with the exploiting of weaker persons, why else do they exist?
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Poll: Slavery, Awesome or Totally Awesome?
(Vote): Totally Awesome
(Vote): Partially Awesome
(Vote): Sub-awesome
Better poll than OP.
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EPT
