As much as you may like your race, there are always little things you dislike. Even just in one match up. I play Terran and I dislike that Terran is unforgiving. If you play Terran vs Zerg and you do a mistake, you are most likely finished. Same for TvT - "Oh, I can drop there - shit. there were mines!" Bam and you are finished.
Terran vs Protoss forgives some mistakes, but really fuck up a push and you are so dead. Also I dislike that Terran hasn't lots of ways to cheese but lots of ways to get cheesed :D!
The fact that most units I control, while generally efficient damage dealers and fast moving, can die to a strong breeze if my attention is elsewhere for a split-second.
i reckon in ZvT Z is more unforgiving one bad flank and TT then again this is before hive tech after hive tech then its harder for the T and ya i hate how everyone loves to cheese terran
I'm gonna have to say dragoons and scarab ai. You time a reaver drop perfectly, aim the scarab and it still gets stuck on some stupid mineral patch. Bam! fucked - gg
// The enemy player sends his initial scout and you want to shoot-move-shoot-move-dance your dragoon to pick off the scout before it can reach your main. You shift your attention for 1 split second to send a worker to mine and the Dragoon bug happens -->... hmm... goon is stuck and worker is now way way away with your goon unable to catch up. ---> there you go, enemy has now fully scouted your build.
edit: oh and the freaking probe hotkey has to be right across the keyboard. Yay for SCV and Drone - same goes for pylon i guess
I dislike having so many units that I have to set giant rallys , and macro in multiple places to even build an army and when I'm doing that I'm also required to preasure/harrass/expand or defend and scout normally at the same time
The fact that I cannot win a straight-up match TvT or TvZ straightup in D+ range. Marine,medic micro is not good enough for large group of camping lurkers.. 140 APM not enough for the intense tvz lategame but after a 30 minute game in D range (lol) i may eventually win through terran doom drops and whoring of science vessels. No confidence in either matchup.
I am very suspicious of every low level TvZ game that I go 7 barracks 8 supply out of fear of 4 pool, it leaves me behind a bit..
I try to follow Artosis' build order for 1 barracks CC but there are small subtle things that mess up each and every game.. speed ling rape, 2 hatchery mutas, slow lurker drop, and even ensnare queens @_@.
I do a strange build order where I pump marines from 1 rax and put them at the ramp and fake 1 barracks CC and proxy a factory else where and rape many drones with 2 vulture micro (fire on a drone at the same exact time) and getting academy, siege mode tank(s), then CC. I catch up to C level zergs off guard since people seem to disregard getting any sunkens unless they see marines moving out. A lot of zergs tell me to MANNER GAMING and quit quickly.
TvT i go 2 factory every game and hope to win (works 35% of the time) or I go super quick dropships and hope they don't turret whore. I simply have absolutely no game sense in this matchup since I do not know the proper way to approach entrenched positions of tanks, turrets, and goliaths. I simply go for the early game kill or use massive dropships or proxy tech to battle crusiers. I find that in Iccup the only reason I am winning is because two thirds of the opponent I face are more clueless than I am (marine medic rush or 3 factory vultures when I wall in).
TvP enormous ways to get gayed, but strangely.. reaver drops barely phase me since my practice friend went 100% reaver drop build order, it's the dt drops and zealots that I really dislike in this matchup. My friend once did a 60 speed zealot surround on my tank mass just to rub in my noobiness back then. The mines dragged into the core of the tanks and a mixture of red and blue explosions occur.
Another annoyance is when protoss go 12/14 nexus and I scout it a bit too late. I see nothing in base and think damm proxy gateway zealots and then I venture out and I see a sneeky pylon position and the 12/14 nexus 3/4s complete. It completely throws my game play off and it seems that no matter what I do I simply cannot punish him for doing a risky build.
TvP: Reaver drops, DT drops, 2 gate proxy are all fucking gay. Meanwhile Terran can't do much really besides 2 factory which is risky or Starport which is unorthodox these days.
What annoys me about protoss are the probes that are so fragile. I wish they were SCVs.
The above mentioned dragoon bug.
The reaver Ai is not much of a deal for me since I started dropping reavers in the spot where workers are supposed to flee towards.
The retarded arbiters that start chasing targets and shooting turrets. I know you're brave but, Jesus, leave this shit to real men there! You're only good for spells!
Also I feel Protoss is an unforgiving race too and it's usually against time - I gotta set a third nexus and make some army before that tank/vulture timing push comes. I gotta break this lurker contain in 2 minutes else I might as well just quit the game cause he's gonna have 4 gas ultra/crax/defiler in 3 minutes. I gotta hide my tech cause if he sees my reaver/dt tech before I show it I am as good as dead.
Goon freezing, especially since it can be avoided if you time your commands properly. So if a goon freezes I know it's my fault. Similarly when my building placement causes units to be stuck or blocks transferring probe.
Also I don't like the luck based part of pvp (choosing initial build order) but that applies to all the mirror match-ups.
Also when I play PvT, reaver scarabs, are fucked up. It ALWAYS happens to me, like every time I go reaver, I have literally a 10% chance of doing actual damage. I will usually kill one-two, but if I kill like 4+, I'm pretty damn lucky
On December 09 2008 18:29 dongfeng wrote: and ya i hate how everyone loves to cheese terran
70% of my iccup losses (i'm 2-13, fuckyeah) are due to DT rushes, proxy rax bunker rush (there's really nothing you can do when you don't care), DT drop, goliath drop on min line (I consider this cheesy... it's so annoying), 2gate mass zel (yeah...), 4pool, 5pool. Pretty much every cheese has been done to me.
Might switch to protoss just to feel like 1a2a3a actually matters.
== losses are more likely due to my own ineptitude than anything, but ey
On December 09 2008 19:40 ShadowDrgn wrote: Supply depots and factories with addons take up too much space. Srsly.
haha talking about add-ons, I hate how like when you accidentally make addon but you make your builidng lift because you commanded to make an addon slightly to the left or right of where your building originally was.
On December 09 2008 19:40 ShadowDrgn wrote: Supply depots and factories with addons take up too much space. Srsly.
haha talking about add-ons, I hate how like when you accidentally make addon but you make your builidng lift because you commanded to make an addon slightly to the left or right of where your building originally was.
Yeah that's annoying lol.
I hate that I have very few units that are effective against the dreaded dark swarm. I also hate it when clumps of tanks get stasised, stormed or mine dragged and how difficult it can be to spread them properly when you have to do it incredibly quickly due to the fact that their highly mobile army is making haste towards you.
ZvT, playing with godly muta micro and finally terran just rolls out and you cant stop it. Terran parking with 12-15 tanks and slowly moving, trying dark swarm but you cant get close because siege kills every try. Going guarding against it, killed by vessels. Then noticing that that same group of tanks killed 3 of my expansion alone while they have ready same group to roll out...
I hate to get my gas taken when I have build planed out I hate dt rushes/drops I hate my tank getting trapped by my own units and then sniped I hate my units when they bugg at the ramp cause I have to get in to my main and defend I hate when I miss a supplie I hate it even more when I told a scv to build a supplie but he didnt cause I didn't have minerals I hate to get marine rushed I hate it when my 9rax failed and I get linged I hate when I move away my vultures from my tanks and they get owned I hate storm drops
On December 09 2008 18:16 G.s)NarutO wrote: I play Terran and I dislike that Terran is unforgiving.
Terran is probably the most forgiving race, given their defensive nature they can often live the next attack after a mistake and look to come forward from that strong defense.
On December 09 2008 18:16 G.s)NarutO wrote: I play Terran and I dislike that Terran is unforgiving.
Terran is probably the most forgiving race, given their defensive nature they can often live the next attack after a mistake and look to come forward from that strong defense.
Sure, you can survive additional attacks after blowing it, but you really have no chance of winning. Terran needs way waaaay more units concentrated in a ball to be effective on offense. Most of the time I can decimate zerg and toss armies and they come back like it was nothing, but if I lose 6 tanks in a TvP early on it's gg cause you don't have the addons to reproduce them as well as buy vultures.
1) Not getting the "your forces are under attack" when there is a fucking DT killing my lings or drones... 2) my units can die so quickly if i don't pay perfect attention to them at the right time, damn Psi Storm and Irradiate doesn't help either... 3) i have no worth using spell that actually kills units (Broodling doesn't count, and sure plague does a lot of damage but it still wont kill) while both Terran and Protoss do, see above spells...
ya... i think that about covers it for what annoys me about zerg... but i keep playing cuz i love seeing my opponents base swarmed by my hordes of hydras and lings ^_^
probes are harder to select than scvs and drones, so macroing that way is harder. And because of this, it's difficult to get into your rhythm at the beginning.
1: Locked goons. 2: Zealots are annoying to position on ramps sometimes. 3: Anti-air is challenging to set up well from early in the game without making sacrifices. 4: Probes can get stuck during a maynard through vertical gateways. 5: Templar move so slow that it's tough to do quick army movements. 6: Dragoons attack floating buildings instead of enemies in battles. 7: Very few units can fit through minichokes
The only thing I hate about Zerg is how easily my army can be decimated from a well placed storm or how an entire attack can be diverted from a single irradiate. Basically I hate how frail most Zerg units are...
terran isn't unforgiving compared to the other races, you might say terran is unforgiving in the way that you usually lose because of your fuckups, which is kinda how the game works. No way t is more unforgiving than Z P though.
I hate how my units never can face a maxed out T/P without defilers.
On December 09 2008 18:16 G.s)NarutO wrote: I play Terran and I dislike that Terran is unforgiving.
Terran is probably the most forgiving race, given their defensive nature they can often live the next attack after a mistake and look to come forward from that strong defense.
Sure, you can survive additional attacks after blowing it, but you really have no chance of winning. Terran needs way waaaay more units concentrated in a ball to be effective on offense. Most of the time I can decimate zerg and toss armies and they come back like it was nothing, but if I lose 6 tanks in a TvP early on it's gg cause you don't have the addons to reproduce them as well as buy vultures.
Umm, I don't agree with this at all. As the defender you have a higher chance of the enemy making a mistake than as the attacker.
On December 09 2008 18:31 Ilikestarcraft wrote: If i accidently move into lurks bye bye
That's why you scan before moving out!
Or keep a scouter SCV
omg that reminds me of a funny story
me and my roommate were doing 1v1 and he was zerg and went lurker hydra
after getting my nat i scouted just outside my base w/ an scv and kind of forgot it there... then suddenly i hear like keyboard hitting like 10times per second and im like wtf?
That Zerg gameplay (or "metagame") has shifted so much from what the nature of the race was designed to be like.
a) Z is supposed to have a shitton of units -> reality: P and T can pump incredible amounts of units, and do so very fast -> Z nothing special anymore. Especially in ZvT we see very few Z units (although rather hightech) against masses of Terran units. Not very Zerg-like.
b) Z is supposed to be FAST. Reality: other races have fast units too (Ms with stim, speedshuttles, sairs, zeals with legs), and Z has some incredibly slow units (overlords, slowhyds, slowultras, LURKERS (walking fast but it takes them 2 hours to burrow/unburrow and then another 1 hour to hit the target). Dragging lurkers along slows down the whole army, just like siege tanks - but with Terran that's fine since they're supposed to be slow but hard-hitting.
c) Z is supposed to be ultra aggressive -> reality: Z usually bunkers up like mad and tries to get enough eco in order to survive until lategame; only then aggression can start (thanks to ultras/defilers/cracklings).
d) Z doesn't have a durable unit in early or midgame (something like a Roach) - P has lots of hitpoints in general, and T has fast-regenerating M&Ms. Z is 100% pudding which will die if the wind blows too hard. Ok most units *should* be like that, that's the nature of the race, but 1 more durable unit wouldn't hurt, since ultras come way too late.
e) Z is supposed to be scary -> looking at all the points above, they're not really scary at all until late game.
This is not a balance complaint btw, in case some jerk misinterprets it.
For the dragoon and all range units bug. Just spam stop or hold position for 3 times and they will move again.. hopefully not melted by tanks before they move again.
Two different races, but for protoss, the fact that "t" hotkey researches dark archon energy at archives. For terran, the fact that "i" researches ion thrusters at machine shop. Makes no sense at all.
Taking second expo in python TvP is almost impossible. There's too much area to cover for the terran, the protoss can easily 1a2a3a from different directions.
On December 17 2008 11:20 Lamborsche wrote: Taking second expo in python TvP is almost impossible. There's too much area to cover for the terran, the protoss can easily 1a2a3a from different directions.
this, except too late of a third gas for zerg = autoloss unless you got a ling runby and trashed his eco badly
On December 09 2008 18:16 G.s)NarutO wrote: I play Terran and I dislike that Terran is unforgiving. If you play Terran vs Zerg and you do a mistake, you are most likely finished. Same for TvT - "Oh, I can drop there - shit. there were mines!" Bam and you are finished.
Are you kidding me?? In TvZ, playing Z is the most unforgiving obviously because of how cost efficient Terran army is and how fast it is reproduced. You lose a decent size group of m&m plus a tank and you reproduce one in no time. You know how fucked over Z is if his control group of lurks die? It costs him the game if T chooses to push in after. Lurks take a lot more time and is more expensive than marine+medics, and Z cannot have too many hatcheries like in ZvP during ZvT so Terran production should be faster
On December 09 2008 18:16 G.s)NarutO wrote: Also I dislike that Terran hasn't lots of ways to cheese but lots of ways to get cheesed
lmao stop complaining about T, its already overpowered. You know how many ways Terran can cheese Zerg compared to how many ways Z can cheese Terran?
Z cheese in ZvT: 4/5 Pool Offensive sunken (very rare) Burrow Rush
T cheese in TvZ: Bunker Rush Sunken Break All-in Proxy Factory Proxy Rax Wraith Build Mech (not straight up)
Thats at least twice the number of cheeses that T can do to a Z. Lets not forget to mention that 4 pool is easily stopped if you pull few SCVs to block ramp and then its autoloss for Z
the fact that zerg has like the least amount of units and creates armies the slowest at least until late game thats not what i signed up for when i started zerg..
On December 09 2008 18:16 G.s)NarutO wrote: I play Terran and I dislike that Terran is unforgiving.
Terran is probably the most forgiving race, given their defensive nature they can often live the next attack after a mistake and look to come forward from that strong defense.
Sure, you can survive additional attacks after blowing it, but you really have no chance of winning. Terran needs way waaaay more units concentrated in a ball to be effective on offense. Most of the time I can decimate zerg and toss armies and they come back like it was nothing, but if I lose 6 tanks in a TvP early on it's gg cause you don't have the addons to reproduce them as well as buy vultures.
Umm, I don't agree with this at all. As the defender you have a higher chance of the enemy making a mistake than as the attacker.
Chill, ur trippin. As said by some famous dude I can't remember - "There are many wrong ways to defend, but there is never a wrong attack". Terran requires the highest degree of precision, and therefore is by far the least forgiving.
TvZ you have discrete windows to attack, and if you mistakingly attack a group of lurkers/leave your army idle for 2 seconds/etc then you are essentially finished because you lose so much tempo and allow Z to expo/tech up. Not to mention the terran army requires constant babysitting > 5 mins into the game.
TvP you have an extremely limited ability to scout early game so you must play defensively early and prepare for reaver/dt/goon push. This means the pressure is on you, the terran, to attack or else you will be contained by the P. If you push at the wrong time, or allow yourself to get flanked, or get attacked enough while unsieged, then you lose.
TvT is boring and I don't feel like talking about it.
When I used to play terran: - I hated when you try to build things beside each other the SCV can block it (especially if you have a complete factory and below/above/beside it is a building factory and the SCV crosses over and it doesn't let you build an addon because the SCV is inside the factory so that part of the factory is red and this delays your build order... I've actually lost a game a long time ago during cheese because a vult (with mines) popped out about 10 seconds late because of this). - having to practice 10 times as much to be equally as good as a protoss player of the same skill level (hence why I switched)
I switched to toss and I never practice now... mechanics lol. I really hate PvZ though because I never understood TvZ either and this is just worse...
I dont like it when people switch to protoss because they feel it will be easier because it literally actually gives a reason for people to say 1a2a3a toss is easy. I will never switch to protoss because its easier or to get better faster.
Werent you that guy on tsl who was last place at d- and was playing a lot? Whyd you stop practicing? I used to really really hate tvp and would just get overrun in like 10 mins but as I improved tvp and started winning more made me realize how fun the mu is. Switching to toss because you have to try less to get better just means you're lazy. When you start winning a lot more on tvp its really rewarding. If you're frustrated use that as motivation and try harder to improve.
I dont know im just sad that you switched to toss for the wrong reasons.
EPT
