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So I'm pretty pissed off right now, because right now where I live it's easier for me to get illegal drugs than it is for me to get alcohol. I'm 19 years old and live in Boulder, Colorado, and it seems like every other person I meet deals either weed or lsd, and yet all I want to do tonight is get a handle and have some fun with my friends.
First of all, should I view this as a failure of our society? By outlawing drugs the government effectively creates thousands of private business owners that don't have to pay taxes, and are always willing to sell. But if, say, all the drugs in the world were sold at liquor stores, then nobody would privately sell them, and they'd be harder for minors to get.
So anyway, I started to wonder if there were some way for me to buy alcohol online (preferrably from outside the US). After about 15 minutes of fruitless searching I decided to throw it out here to see if anybody already has tried to do this.
 
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What are you talking about... Alcohol is ridiculously easy to get. You just have to have a friend who is of age, or a friend's brother, or your brother or whatever.
But if, say, all the drugs in the world were sold at liquor stores, then nobody would privately sell them, and they'd be harder for minors to get.
They're still incredibly destructive. I don't want anymore coke heads or meth addicts. Those people are dumb as fuck, and it's not just cause they were always that way, although they couldn't have been geniuses to consume anything given to them by people so sketchy.
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I rather smoke weed with a bunch of people at my house than have a bunch of drunk people around my house.
Buying liqour online? Never heard of shit like that.
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DAMN. I live like 20 minutes from you. And yeah, I can get weed, acid, meth and coke easier than alcohol. I feel your pain.
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Go up to Canada and buy a shit load of beer. It's cheap and 18 is the legal age.
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19 unless you go to Quebec 
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United States24680 Posts
On September 01 2008 10:12 PsycHOTemplar wrote:What are you talking about... Alcohol is ridiculously easy to get. You just have to have a friend who is of age, or a friend's brother, or your brother or whatever. Show nested quote +But if, say, all the drugs in the world were sold at liquor stores, then nobody would privately sell them, and they'd be harder for minors to get. They're still incredibly destructive. I don't want anymore coke heads or meth addicts. Those people are dumb as fuck, and it's not just cause they were always that way, although they couldn't have been geniuses to consume anything given to them by people so sketchy.
But does outlawing it reduce the number of addicts significantly enough to counter this? I'm not saying there's a right answer, and it's obviously a continuing issue.
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On September 01 2008 10:12 PsycHOTemplar wrote:What are you talking about... Alcohol is ridiculously easy to get. You just have to have a friend who is of age, or a friend's brother, or your brother or whatever. Show nested quote +But if, say, all the drugs in the world were sold at liquor stores, then nobody would privately sell them, and they'd be harder for minors to get. They're still incredibly destructive. I don't want anymore coke heads or meth addicts. Those people are dumb as fuck, and it's not just cause they were always that way, although they couldn't have been geniuses to consume anything given to them by people so sketchy.
You are ignorant. Just because you have met some people who are fucked up and retarded and use drugs doesnt mean everyone who uses drugs is that way. Most people that use drugs conceal their use so you dont know they are high. They go about their lives normally and no one notices because they arent a problem. I use to snort coke everyday for like a year and a half. No one knew except the people I did it with, because I wasnt a problem. I know many other people who have had similar experiences with drugs. I am currently an A student in my 4th year of my degree at a good university. Most people who are idiots when they are high, are idiots when they arent high.
I feel sorry for you USA people. 21 is a ridiculous age to start drinking. By the time I was 21 I had already slowed down big time. I actually slowed down by 19, which is the legal age here in BC.
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But does outlawing it reduce the number of addicts significantly enough to counter this?
Yes. For the same reasons outlawing murder and theft reduces their frequency. Intelligent people are afraid to go to jail and lose their freedom.
+ Show Spoiler [Rant That Will Offend Druggies] +I use to snort coke everyday for like a year and a half. No one knew except the people I did it with, because I wasnt a problem No. You think people didn't know. I don't go accusing people of being druggies; what would be the point? I still know that they are, because there are physical tells. You're a dumb ass. I have friends who do drugs. I have friends of friends who do drugs. The contrast between the intelligence and worthfulness (just a word I'm making up to define a person who has some ambition and proactivity in their life) of sober people and people who do hard drugs all the time is incredible. Interesting fact of life: Doing drugs is completely unproductive. Some people do drugs as an enhancement to whatever they're doing, but most people sit around talking about how fucked up they are, while they stumble all over the place generally making an ass out of themselves. Those people I hate and call worthless. Even living vicariously thru a character in a movie is more productive than that. I'm genuinely saddened when I see people doing nothing with their lives except working some shitty job, and doing drugs to try an ignore how much they fucked up and never tried. It's a disgrace to the human spirit of creativity and self-improvement.
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Yeah I remember when i was 19 and I was thinking, WTF, how come I have so much access to illegal drugs, but I can't get ahold of a 6 pack of beer? I hated having to always beg my friends with older siblings or fake IDs to help me. Luckily I'm 22 now, so there's no problem. Still think it's rediculous that the drinking age in the US is as high as it is, though.
edit: and if you buy alcohol online, they're required to ask for your ID when they deliver it to you. I remember looking into that option too, and i was like, "drat! foiled again!"
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100% agree with PsycHOTemplar`s rant
if you can only have fun by doing drugs and alcohol, then i feel bad for you.
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Hang out around the liqueur store and wait for someone who looks 21+ to walk by.
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On September 01 2008 12:27 Kwidowmaker wrote:
Hang out around the liqueur store and wait for someone who looks 21+ to walk by.
Tried it, I don't feel like getting turned down a bunch.
Anyway I didn't mean for this to turn into a drug rant, but I agree that if you can't have fun by doing anything other than drugs/alcohol then you're pretty pitiful. That said, I think that responsible adults should be able to do whatever they want to themselves as long as they don't have any dependents or something like that.
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Just start doing weed and LSD.
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On September 01 2008 12:27 Kwidowmaker wrote:
Hang out around the liqueur store and wait for someone who looks 21+ to walk by.
My friend went up to the shadiest looking guy....guess what....it was a cop :[
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On September 01 2008 12:36 Meta wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2008 12:27 Kwidowmaker wrote:
Hang out around the liqueur store and wait for someone who looks 21+ to walk by. Tried it, I don't feel like getting turned down a bunch. Anyway I didn't mean for this to turn into a drug rant, but I agree that if you can't have fun by doing anything other than drugs/alcohol then you're pretty pitiful. That said, I think that responsible adults should be able to do whatever they want to themselves as long as they don't have any dependents or something like that.
My friend and I got it within 2 people. First guy looked like Ozzy, but was caught before, and the second guy looked 20~. All you have to do is look for the trendyish guys because popular culture doesn't tell you not to buy alcohol for minors  There's also always the option of looking for a hobo.
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On September 01 2008 10:29 d(O.o)a wrote:
Go up to Canada and buy a shit load of beer. It's cheap and 18 is the legal age.
Um go to America and then call our alcohol cheap. Ours is literally twice as much moeny ;P
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United States24680 Posts
On September 01 2008 11:46 PsycHOTemplar wrote:Show nested quote +But does outlawing it reduce the number of addicts significantly enough to counter this? Yes. For the same reasons outlawing murder and theft reduces their frequency. Intelligent people are afraid to go to jail and lose their freedom. How did you come to that conclusion other than common sense?
Edit: btw I don't really have a problem with your rant even though I can't personally declare from experience whether or not there are a reasonable number of people who can actually juggle drugs and a productive life successfully.
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umm, go outside a store
find a random guy that looks like he is in his 20s and cool
go up to him and ask him if he will buy some alcohol for you if you hand him money
GG, generally works on the first try if you are good at picking people
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On September 01 2008 12:36 Meta wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2008 12:27 Kwidowmaker wrote:
Hang out around the liqueur store and wait for someone who looks 21+ to walk by. Tried it, I don't feel like getting turned down a bunch. Anyway I didn't mean for this to turn into a drug rant, but I agree that if you can't have fun by doing anything other than drugs/alcohol then you're pretty pitiful. That said, I think that responsible adults should be able to do whatever they want to themselves as long as they don't have any dependents or something like that.
who said he can't?
and even if he can't, you shouldn't judge someone if you can't identify with their situation
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On September 01 2008 11:46 PsycHOTemplar wrote:Show nested quote +But does outlawing it reduce the number of addicts significantly enough to counter this? Yes. For the same reasons outlawing murder and theft reduces their frequency. Intelligent people are afraid to go to jail and lose their freedom. + Show Spoiler [Rant That Will Offend Druggies] +I use to snort coke everyday for like a year and a half. No one knew except the people I did it with, because I wasnt a problem No. You think people didn't know. I don't go accusing people of being druggies; what would be the point? I still know that they are, because there are physical tells. You're a dumb ass. I have friends who do drugs. I have friends of friends who do drugs. The contrast between the intelligence and worthfulness (just a word I'm making up to define a person who has some ambition and proactivity in their life) of sober people and people who do hard drugs all the time is incredible. Interesting fact of life: Doing drugs is completely unproductive. Some people do drugs as an enhancement to whatever they're doing, but most people sit around talking about how fucked up they are, while they stumble all over the place generally making an ass out of themselves. Those people I hate and call worthless. Even living vicariously thru a character in a movie is more productive than that. I'm genuinely saddened when I see people doing nothing with their lives except working some shitty job, and doing drugs to try an ignore how much they fucked up and never tried. It's a disgrace to the human spirit of creativity and self-improvement.
In the end, you are an authoritarian. You wish to limit other people's freedom. That, in essence, makes you a fucking moron.
And some actual statistics for you, instead of your misguided "opinion".
Before the United States drug war began, a federal survey was issued to find that 1 million people admitted to being addicted to drugs. Recently, the same survey was issued to find that 1 million people are addicted to drugs. Life finds a way, no matter how many ignorant and selfish people like you there are out there. So no, prohibition does NOT decrease use, it simply increases drug related deaths, and incarceration rates of innocent, self-sovereign individuals.
And I occasionally smoke marijuana, before you start throwing the obvious, unintelligent, "But you think that because you're a druggie!" argument.
And by the way, how can you possibly know outlawing theft and murder reduces the frequency. I think you're caught up in the whole "morals come from the government" thing.
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United States24680 Posts
On September 01 2008 13:27 Romance_us wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2008 11:46 PsycHOTemplar wrote:But does outlawing it reduce the number of addicts significantly enough to counter this? Yes. For the same reasons outlawing murder and theft reduces their frequency. Intelligent people are afraid to go to jail and lose their freedom. + Show Spoiler [Rant That Will Offend Druggies] +I use to snort coke everyday for like a year and a half. No one knew except the people I did it with, because I wasnt a problem No. You think people didn't know. I don't go accusing people of being druggies; what would be the point? I still know that they are, because there are physical tells. You're a dumb ass. I have friends who do drugs. I have friends of friends who do drugs. The contrast between the intelligence and worthfulness (just a word I'm making up to define a person who has some ambition and proactivity in their life) of sober people and people who do hard drugs all the time is incredible. Interesting fact of life: Doing drugs is completely unproductive. Some people do drugs as an enhancement to whatever they're doing, but most people sit around talking about how fucked up they are, while they stumble all over the place generally making an ass out of themselves. Those people I hate and call worthless. Even living vicariously thru a character in a movie is more productive than that. I'm genuinely saddened when I see people doing nothing with their lives except working some shitty job, and doing drugs to try an ignore how much they fucked up and never tried. It's a disgrace to the human spirit of creativity and self-improvement. In the end, you are an authoritarian. You wish to limit other people's freedom. That, in essence, makes you a fucking moron. I disagree. I don't think that alone, and out of context, means much of anything.
And some actual statistics for you, instead of your misguided "opinion".
Before the United States drug war began, a federal survey was issued to find that 1 million people admitted to being addicted to drugs. Recently, the same survey was issued to find that 1 million people are addicted to drugs. Life finds a way, no matter how many ignorant and selfish people like you there are out there. So no, prohibition does NOT decrease use, it simply increases drug related deaths, and incarceration rates of innocent, self-sovereign individuals.
And I occasionally smoke marijuana, before you start throwing the obvious, unintelligent, "But you think that because you're a druggie!" argument.
And by the way, how can you possibly know outlawing theft and murder reduces the frequency. I think you're caught up in the whole "morals come from the government" thing.
Source? What studies? I'd prefer something besides Wikipedia (just in case the data was most readily available there).
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On September 01 2008 13:31 micronesia wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2008 13:27 Romance_us wrote:On September 01 2008 11:46 PsycHOTemplar wrote:But does outlawing it reduce the number of addicts significantly enough to counter this? Yes. For the same reasons outlawing murder and theft reduces their frequency. Intelligent people are afraid to go to jail and lose their freedom. + Show Spoiler [Rant That Will Offend Druggies] +I use to snort coke everyday for like a year and a half. No one knew except the people I did it with, because I wasnt a problem No. You think people didn't know. I don't go accusing people of being druggies; what would be the point? I still know that they are, because there are physical tells. You're a dumb ass. I have friends who do drugs. I have friends of friends who do drugs. The contrast between the intelligence and worthfulness (just a word I'm making up to define a person who has some ambition and proactivity in their life) of sober people and people who do hard drugs all the time is incredible. Interesting fact of life: Doing drugs is completely unproductive. Some people do drugs as an enhancement to whatever they're doing, but most people sit around talking about how fucked up they are, while they stumble all over the place generally making an ass out of themselves. Those people I hate and call worthless. Even living vicariously thru a character in a movie is more productive than that. I'm genuinely saddened when I see people doing nothing with their lives except working some shitty job, and doing drugs to try an ignore how much they fucked up and never tried. It's a disgrace to the human spirit of creativity and self-improvement. In the end, you are an authoritarian. You wish to limit other people's freedom. That, in essence, makes you a fucking moron. I disagree. I don't think that alone, and out of context, means much of anything. Show nested quote +And some actual statistics for you, instead of your misguided "opinion".
Before the United States drug war began, a federal survey was issued to find that 1 million people admitted to being addicted to drugs. Recently, the same survey was issued to find that 1 million people are addicted to drugs. Life finds a way, no matter how many ignorant and selfish people like you there are out there. So no, prohibition does NOT decrease use, it simply increases drug related deaths, and incarceration rates of innocent, self-sovereign individuals.
And I occasionally smoke marijuana, before you start throwing the obvious, unintelligent, "But you think that because you're a druggie!" argument.
And by the way, how can you possibly know outlawing theft and murder reduces the frequency. I think you're caught up in the whole "morals come from the government" thing. Source? What studies? I'd prefer something besides Wikipedia (just in case the data was most readily available there).
I do not have the source for that, and I regret saying it due to that, but I ASSURE you it is fact.
However, if you google "United States Drug Surveys", you will find countless sources about RECENT studies that show that drug use has actually INCREASED since the drug war began.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/07/01/health/webmd/main4222322.shtml
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/06/080630201007.htm
http://www.alternet.org/drugreporter/90295/
Just a few, there are MUCH more.
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Before the United States drug war began, a federal survey was issued to find that 1 million people admitted to being addicted to drugs. Recently, the same survey was issued to find that 1 million people are addicted to drugs. Life finds a way, no matter how many ignorant and selfish people like you there are out there. So no, prohibition does NOT decrease use, it simply increases drug related deaths, and incarceration rates of innocent, self-sovereign individuals.
You're right, I am selfish. I want other people to be useful, contributing members of society that I feel safe around purely for my own benefit. Sorry for being human.
And I occasionally smoke marijuana, before you start throwing the obvious, unintelligent, "But you think that because you're a druggie!" argument.
When I said "hard drugs," did you think I meant weed? When I specifically made a distinction between people who just get fucked up, and people who take drugs as an enhancement to their activities, did you think I was just saying that for shits and giggles? I like to have a drink now and then, and I don't have any reason to believe weed is more or less harmful than alcohol when both are used responsibly. What I do have a problem with is people robbing 7/11s because they can't find any other way to come up with the money to satisfy their craving. I do have a problem with people who work some shitty job, but never find anything in life except their drug, because they aren't motivated to ever be artistic.
However, if you google "United States Drug Surveys", you will find countless sources about RECENT studies that show that drug use has actually INCREASED since the drug war began.
Statistics can be very misleading if you don't know exactly how they were ascertained. The first example I can think of is that though there are more people doing drugs today, that might been an offshoot of an exponetially larger number of drug dealers simply from increasing poverty in America (in the slums, the most promising career you can think of is often dealing drugs). Or maybe it's a simple numbers thing, and it's not taking into account that the population has also increased. 20% more people doing drugs might not mean the percent of the population doing drugs has changed. Also, a more interesting statistic would be to see if crime has increased in areas where hard drugs are more abundant.
All in all, the view that the other is a "fucking moron" is mutual.
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so not doing drugs makes people safe?
and doing drugs makes them unsafe?
and not doing drugs means they contribute?
and doing drugs means they don't?
don't be so quick to judge other people. you have your own cravings, your own voids that you fill, based upon your own selfish desires. do not act like you don't.
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They're just facts of life... Blind people can't see; Shitfaced people can't concentrate. If your contribution to society is working 8 hours a day at Walmart, boi, I don't like you.
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United States24680 Posts
On September 01 2008 13:38 Romance_us wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2008 13:31 micronesia wrote:On September 01 2008 13:27 Romance_us wrote:On September 01 2008 11:46 PsycHOTemplar wrote:But does outlawing it reduce the number of addicts significantly enough to counter this? Yes. For the same reasons outlawing murder and theft reduces their frequency. Intelligent people are afraid to go to jail and lose their freedom. + Show Spoiler [Rant That Will Offend Druggies] +I use to snort coke everyday for like a year and a half. No one knew except the people I did it with, because I wasnt a problem No. You think people didn't know. I don't go accusing people of being druggies; what would be the point? I still know that they are, because there are physical tells. You're a dumb ass. I have friends who do drugs. I have friends of friends who do drugs. The contrast between the intelligence and worthfulness (just a word I'm making up to define a person who has some ambition and proactivity in their life) of sober people and people who do hard drugs all the time is incredible. Interesting fact of life: Doing drugs is completely unproductive. Some people do drugs as an enhancement to whatever they're doing, but most people sit around talking about how fucked up they are, while they stumble all over the place generally making an ass out of themselves. Those people I hate and call worthless. Even living vicariously thru a character in a movie is more productive than that. I'm genuinely saddened when I see people doing nothing with their lives except working some shitty job, and doing drugs to try an ignore how much they fucked up and never tried. It's a disgrace to the human spirit of creativity and self-improvement. In the end, you are an authoritarian. You wish to limit other people's freedom. That, in essence, makes you a fucking moron. I disagree. I don't think that alone, and out of context, means much of anything. And some actual statistics for you, instead of your misguided "opinion".
Before the United States drug war began, a federal survey was issued to find that 1 million people admitted to being addicted to drugs. Recently, the same survey was issued to find that 1 million people are addicted to drugs. Life finds a way, no matter how many ignorant and selfish people like you there are out there. So no, prohibition does NOT decrease use, it simply increases drug related deaths, and incarceration rates of innocent, self-sovereign individuals.
And I occasionally smoke marijuana, before you start throwing the obvious, unintelligent, "But you think that because you're a druggie!" argument.
And by the way, how can you possibly know outlawing theft and murder reduces the frequency. I think you're caught up in the whole "morals come from the government" thing. Source? What studies? I'd prefer something besides Wikipedia (just in case the data was most readily available there). I do not have the source for that, and I regret saying it due to that, but I ASSURE you it is fact. However, if you google "United States Drug Surveys", you will find countless sources about RECENT studies that show that drug use has actually INCREASED since the drug war began. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/07/01/health/webmd/main4222322.shtmlhttp://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/06/080630201007.htmhttp://www.alternet.org/drugreporter/90295/Just a few, there are MUCH more.
First of all, thinking that recreational drugs should be illegal is not the same thing as supporting the drug was as it has occurred in the USA the past decade(s) (you imply this).
Second, if you can ASSURE me that it is fact, can you explain WHY you can assure me of this? If you come back with a reasonable answer like "my professor who studies this was explaining it to us and I never bothered to look up the source" then that's fairly credible so long as you aren't lying, but I don't feel convinced you have such a good answer necessarily.
edit:
On September 01 2008 14:21 PsycHOTemplar wrote:
They're just facts of life... Blind people can't see; Shitfaced people can't concentrate. If your contribution to society is working 8 hours a day at Walmart, boi, I don't like you.
What's wrong with having a shitty job? Somebody has to do it.
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On September 01 2008 14:21 micronesia wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2008 13:38 Romance_us wrote:On September 01 2008 13:31 micronesia wrote:On September 01 2008 13:27 Romance_us wrote:On September 01 2008 11:46 PsycHOTemplar wrote:But does outlawing it reduce the number of addicts significantly enough to counter this? Yes. For the same reasons outlawing murder and theft reduces their frequency. Intelligent people are afraid to go to jail and lose their freedom. + Show Spoiler [Rant That Will Offend Druggies] +I use to snort coke everyday for like a year and a half. No one knew except the people I did it with, because I wasnt a problem No. You think people didn't know. I don't go accusing people of being druggies; what would be the point? I still know that they are, because there are physical tells. You're a dumb ass. I have friends who do drugs. I have friends of friends who do drugs. The contrast between the intelligence and worthfulness (just a word I'm making up to define a person who has some ambition and proactivity in their life) of sober people and people who do hard drugs all the time is incredible. Interesting fact of life: Doing drugs is completely unproductive. Some people do drugs as an enhancement to whatever they're doing, but most people sit around talking about how fucked up they are, while they stumble all over the place generally making an ass out of themselves. Those people I hate and call worthless. Even living vicariously thru a character in a movie is more productive than that. I'm genuinely saddened when I see people doing nothing with their lives except working some shitty job, and doing drugs to try an ignore how much they fucked up and never tried. It's a disgrace to the human spirit of creativity and self-improvement. In the end, you are an authoritarian. You wish to limit other people's freedom. That, in essence, makes you a fucking moron. I disagree. I don't think that alone, and out of context, means much of anything. And some actual statistics for you, instead of your misguided "opinion".
Before the United States drug war began, a federal survey was issued to find that 1 million people admitted to being addicted to drugs. Recently, the same survey was issued to find that 1 million people are addicted to drugs. Life finds a way, no matter how many ignorant and selfish people like you there are out there. So no, prohibition does NOT decrease use, it simply increases drug related deaths, and incarceration rates of innocent, self-sovereign individuals.
And I occasionally smoke marijuana, before you start throwing the obvious, unintelligent, "But you think that because you're a druggie!" argument.
And by the way, how can you possibly know outlawing theft and murder reduces the frequency. I think you're caught up in the whole "morals come from the government" thing. Source? What studies? I'd prefer something besides Wikipedia (just in case the data was most readily available there). I do not have the source for that, and I regret saying it due to that, but I ASSURE you it is fact. However, if you google "United States Drug Surveys", you will find countless sources about RECENT studies that show that drug use has actually INCREASED since the drug war began. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/07/01/health/webmd/main4222322.shtmlhttp://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/06/080630201007.htmhttp://www.alternet.org/drugreporter/90295/Just a few, there are MUCH more. First of all, thinking that recreational drugs should be illegal is not the same thing as supporting the drug was as it has occurred in the USA the past decade(s) (you imply this).
the difference is slim.
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On September 01 2008 14:21 PsycHOTemplar wrote:
They're just facts of life... Blind people can't see; Shitfaced people can't concentrate. If your contribution to society is working 8 hours a day at Walmart, boi, I don't like you.
blind people can hear, smell, taste, and tactilely feel way better than most people who can see.
shitfaced people? well, I was never suggesting people should spend all their time shitfaced, but there is a certain wisdom that can be gained from that, as well.
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United States24680 Posts
On September 01 2008 14:24 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2008 14:21 micronesia wrote:On September 01 2008 13:38 Romance_us wrote:On September 01 2008 13:31 micronesia wrote:On September 01 2008 13:27 Romance_us wrote:On September 01 2008 11:46 PsycHOTemplar wrote:But does outlawing it reduce the number of addicts significantly enough to counter this? Yes. For the same reasons outlawing murder and theft reduces their frequency. Intelligent people are afraid to go to jail and lose their freedom. + Show Spoiler [Rant That Will Offend Druggies] +I use to snort coke everyday for like a year and a half. No one knew except the people I did it with, because I wasnt a problem No. You think people didn't know. I don't go accusing people of being druggies; what would be the point? I still know that they are, because there are physical tells. You're a dumb ass. I have friends who do drugs. I have friends of friends who do drugs. The contrast between the intelligence and worthfulness (just a word I'm making up to define a person who has some ambition and proactivity in their life) of sober people and people who do hard drugs all the time is incredible. Interesting fact of life: Doing drugs is completely unproductive. Some people do drugs as an enhancement to whatever they're doing, but most people sit around talking about how fucked up they are, while they stumble all over the place generally making an ass out of themselves. Those people I hate and call worthless. Even living vicariously thru a character in a movie is more productive than that. I'm genuinely saddened when I see people doing nothing with their lives except working some shitty job, and doing drugs to try an ignore how much they fucked up and never tried. It's a disgrace to the human spirit of creativity and self-improvement. In the end, you are an authoritarian. You wish to limit other people's freedom. That, in essence, makes you a fucking moron. I disagree. I don't think that alone, and out of context, means much of anything. And some actual statistics for you, instead of your misguided "opinion".
Before the United States drug war began, a federal survey was issued to find that 1 million people admitted to being addicted to drugs. Recently, the same survey was issued to find that 1 million people are addicted to drugs. Life finds a way, no matter how many ignorant and selfish people like you there are out there. So no, prohibition does NOT decrease use, it simply increases drug related deaths, and incarceration rates of innocent, self-sovereign individuals.
And I occasionally smoke marijuana, before you start throwing the obvious, unintelligent, "But you think that because you're a druggie!" argument.
And by the way, how can you possibly know outlawing theft and murder reduces the frequency. I think you're caught up in the whole "morals come from the government" thing. Source? What studies? I'd prefer something besides Wikipedia (just in case the data was most readily available there). I do not have the source for that, and I regret saying it due to that, but I ASSURE you it is fact. However, if you google "United States Drug Surveys", you will find countless sources about RECENT studies that show that drug use has actually INCREASED since the drug war began. http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/07/01/health/webmd/main4222322.shtmlhttp://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/06/080630201007.htmhttp://www.alternet.org/drugreporter/90295/Just a few, there are MUCH more. First of all, thinking that recreational drugs should be illegal is not the same thing as supporting the drug was as it has occurred in the USA the past decade(s) (you imply this). the difference is slim.
Roseanne slim?
Orson Welles slim?
Marlon Brando slim?
Why is it slim?
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because if something is illegal, it is illegal
why would it not be slim? where is the large difference?
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United States24680 Posts
On September 01 2008 14:29 travis wrote:
because if something is illegal, it is illegal
why would it not be slim? where is the large difference?
The War on Drugs has been a miserable failure. It is not a miserable failure because one of its goals is to outlaw recreational drugs.... it's a slightly (and by slightly I mean not really slightly) more complicated issue than that.
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The war on drugs has been an incredible success. Just ask all the people who have profited from it.
So I guess your point is that it would become somewhat easier to get these illegal drugs. I agree with that, to an extent.
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blind people can hear,
Yes.
smell,
Uh huh...
taste,
Where are you going with this, monkey man?
and tactilely feel
o.o
way better than most people who can see.
... I fail to see your point.
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On September 01 2008 14:39 PsycHOTemplar wrote:Yes. Uh huh... Where are you going with this, monkey man? o.o ... I fail to see your point.
maybe you'd get it if you were blind
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On September 01 2008 14:39 PsycHOTemplar wrote:Yes. Uh huh... Where are you going with this, monkey man? o.o ... I fail to see your point.
Er, isn't it saying that people who lose the ability to do something due to a handicap (blind, high, etc) can potentially make up for it in other ways? 'High people can't think, but they can make awesome artwork' would be one such example. All speculation.
edit: lol travis
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High people can think... Shit faced people can't... and thus their ability to do anything is precisely dick.
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On September 01 2008 14:40 micronesia wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2008 14:39 PsycHOTemplar wrote:blind people can hear, Yes. smell, Uh huh... taste, Where are you going with this, monkey man? and tactilely feel o.o way better than most people who can see. ... I fail to see your point. Er, isn't it saying that people who lose the ability to do something due to a handicap (blind, high, etc) can potentially make up for it in other ways? 'High people can't think, but they can make awesome artwork' would be one such example. All speculation. edit: lol travis
yes, you understand the bulk of my point.
I am saying that it is easy to judge someone who is different than you because you are seeing things from your perspective, not theirs. And almost all of us have very limited perspectives.
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On September 01 2008 14:44 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2008 14:40 micronesia wrote:On September 01 2008 14:39 PsycHOTemplar wrote:blind people can hear, Yes. smell, Uh huh... taste, Where are you going with this, monkey man? and tactilely feel o.o way better than most people who can see. ... I fail to see your point. Er, isn't it saying that people who lose the ability to do something due to a handicap (blind, high, etc) can potentially make up for it in other ways? 'High people can't think, but they can make awesome artwork' would be one such example. All speculation. edit: lol travis yes, you understand the bulk of my point. I am saying that it is easy to judge someone who is different than you because you are seeing things from your perspective, not theirs. And almost all of us have very limited perspectives.
Since PsycHOTemplar seems relatively unconvinced that any reasonable number of people can actually improve their life by making significant recreational drug use a part of it, he might benefit from reasonable examples that could theoretically be backed up by an investigation into the lives of typical people in similar situations, if your assertions are in fact true (lol@sentence)
Just trying to be diplomatic since not much else is coming from this...
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Everyone except Travis? :O
I don't know what about people you exactly think I'm judging. I won't say necessarily that it's entirely a persons fault they got into hard drugs, or that they've had an easy life. But I will judge a person's value to me. A person who is undependable because of a drug addiction is either a friend who's a burden to me because I have to try to help them rehabilitate, or a friend no more because I don't believe in them. A person like this who was never a friend is simply a waste of my time. Doesn't matter what your story is. It's like a person with no potential who was born and remained very untalented. You don't take them in just because you pity their shitty genetics. You make a judgement, and if you can't use them, you forget about them. Some might think that's a cruel way to see the world, but think of a friend you did tonnes of stuff for, but they never reciprocated... Were they ever really your friend? A drug addict who cares about nothing but his or her next fix... Can you really ever expect them to be useful in that state?
Forget judging the person even. Doing hard drugs is just a poor use of time in my opinion. Which was my original point, so I don't know how it came to this. I guess these sorts of arguments always do.
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Maybe if I wasn't so lazy, but for now I will just do what comes easily to me
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On September 01 2008 14:21 PsycHOTemplar wrote:
They're just facts of life... Blind people can't see; Shitfaced people can't concentrate. If your contribution to society is working 8 hours a day at Walmart, boi, I don't like you. why would anyone listen to you when you say something like that?
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On September 01 2008 15:01 yubee wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2008 14:21 PsycHOTemplar wrote:
They're just facts of life... Blind people can't see; Shitfaced people can't concentrate. If your contribution to society is working 8 hours a day at Walmart, boi, I don't like you. why would anyone listen to you when you say something like that?
My similar complaint was promptly ignored.
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people at walmart aren't people, if they were they'd be doctors!!
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On September 01 2008 15:04 yubee wrote:
people at walmart aren't people, if they were they'd be doctors!!
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Well then I'll reiterate
I've grown up with a lot of people, some who got into hard drugs, and some who didn't. The people who did went downhill, and downhill quick. Their education suffered, their ambitions suffered, and they're basically doing anything suffered. I stopped being friends with these people. You seem to claim it's inappropriate for me to judge these people for the lifestyle they chose, and enjoy. But why shouldn't I? They're worthless to me. I don't like them for that reason. I'm sharing this world, so naturally it's in my interests to lean against these ideas, and hope that fewer rather than more do these drugs. That in itself seems as logical as anything will ever get in this world.
I'm allowed to be disappointed when people aren't as useful to me as they could have been. In my honest opinion, I think they'd be happier as well if they'd chosen a different path. Who can look back on years of drug abuse and feel like they've accomplished anything? Lack of foresight is these people's biggest character flaw, and everyone I see years after they started says they regret it. Perhaps my personal experience is too small a sample, but it's obviously going to influence my opinions.
EDIT:people at walmart aren't people, if they were they'd be doctors!!
I'm not saying you can't work some shit job and not be a good person... I'm saying if you have no ambitions beyond a frankly evil corporation any person would boycott if the world were just, you're not a good person. A person who has a hobby outside their shitty job is good. A person who still wants to become a better and better person, a person who wants create things. A person who just works his shift, comes home, does drugs to forget how dismal their life is, goes to sleep, wakes up, repeats, is worthless.
PS: Learn to read in context before calling people idiots, Yubee.
PPS: FUCK MY LIFE!
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how do you not get it stupid, i'm making a joke about his prejudice against people who work at walmart because of their jobs
nice image macro god micronesia GOD
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Darth Vader is obviously thirsty.
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On September 01 2008 15:07 yubee wrote:
how do you not get it stupid, i'm making a joke about his prejudice against people who work at walmart because of their jobs
nice image macro god micronesia GOD
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On September 01 2008 15:06 PsycHOTemplar wrote:Well then I'll reiterate I've grown up with a lot of people, some who got into hard drugs, and some who didn't. The people who did went downhill, and downhill quick. Their education suffered, their ambitions suffered, and they're basically doing anything suffered. I stopped being friends with these people. You seem to claim it's inappropriate for me to judge these people for the lifestyle they chose, and enjoy. But why shouldn't I? They're worthless to me. I don't like them for that reason. I'm sharing this world, so naturally it's in my interests to lean against these ideas, and hope that fewer rather than more do these drugs. That in itself seems as logical as anything will ever get in this world.
well lets pretend these people you are talking about are somehow the same as everyone else how takes similar actions.
you don't see how your view is closeminded, ignoring the gigantic blanket effect you've laid upon the world?
I'm allowed to be disappointed when people aren't as useful to me as they could have been. In my honest opinion, I think they'd be happier as well if they'd chosen a different path.
maybe they would, but they didn't.
and maybe they wouldn't have.
maybe you would have been happier if you had chosen a different path.
Who can look back on years of drug abuse and feel like they've accomplished anything?
and you are in a position to say what is or is not abuse?
Anyways, Me.
Lack of foresight is these people's biggest character flaw, and everyone I see years after they started says they regret it. Perhaps my personal experience is too small a sample, but it's obviously going to influence my opinions.
again, you are in no position to make such a statement without going through the experiences that they have.
remember here, you are arguing to make certain drugs illegal for everyone
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On September 01 2008 15:06 PsycHOTemplar wrote:EDIT: I'm not saying you can't work some shit job and not be a good person... I'm saying if you have no ambitions beyond a frankly evil corporation any person would boycott if the world were just, you're not a good person. A person who has a hobby outside their shitty job is good. A person who still wants to become a better and better person, a person who wants create things. A person who just works his shift, comes home, does drugs to forget how dismal their life is, goes to sleep, wakes up, repeats, is worthless.
The way you put it was directly insulting people who work jobs similar to those at Walmart. If you didn't intend this, you might have thought of a better, more clear way to put it (and this is my polite way of saying the way you worded it was horribly insensitive and not clear).
PS: Learn to read in context before calling people idiots, Yubee.
Don't worry he calls everyone an idiot.
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remember here, you are arguing to make certain drugs illegal for everyone
I am? I thought I was just arguing that people who do nothing but drugs are worthless. Evidently you're arguing with someone else.
and you are in a position to say what is or is not abuse?
Abuse actually has a very specific definition. You can look it up
The way you put it was directly insulting people who work jobs similar to those at Walmart. If you didn't intend this, you might have thought of a better, more clear way to put it (and this is my polite way of saying the way you worded it was horribly insensitive and not clear).
Well to be honest, I think you do disservice to humanity when you support something so obviously exploitative. Which is what I mean when I say it's not a contribution to society to work there... It's what you do as a necessity to pay for food and rent if you work there.
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On September 01 2008 15:16 PsycHOTemplar wrote:I am? I thought I was just arguing that people who do nothing but drugs are worthless. Evidently you're arguing with someone else.
alright, I will concede that you never outright said it. But that is obviously the stance you were taking.
Abuse actually has a very specific definition. You can look it up
No it does not. You obviously do not know what the word "specific" means.
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not everyone is on some faggy naive quest to fight the man and fight corporations dude!!! far out!! some people just need to eat you dumb prick
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Why do I get in arguments over the internet lol... This has been a regrettable experience.
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On September 01 2008 15:20 PsycHOTemplar wrote:
Why do I get in arguments over the internet lol... This has been a regrettable experience.
But the reason it has been a regrettable experience is not simply because you got into an argument on the internet. To claim such would be to avoid the real issue.
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It's not fighting the man... it's fighting for human rights and saying you won't be an accomplice to the mistreatment of people who cannot defend their rights on their own.
But the reason it has been a regrettable experience is not simply because you got into an argument on the internet. To claim such would be to avoid the real issue.
No, it really is. These things go nowhere because the communication is so interspersed, no one can interrupt and ask for clarification or kindly present conflicting information.
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On September 01 2008 15:21 PsycHOTemplar wrote:
It's not fighting the man... it's fighting for human rights and saying you won't be an accomplice to the mistreatment of people who cannot defend their rights on their own.
Isn't the group of people who can't defend themselves, largely made up of the people you are expecting to stand up to the evil corporation...?
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PsychoTemplar why has this been a regrettable experience. No one needs to be right. Just look for truth, brush everything else aside. Look for truth and leave the rest. Who gives a shit who is right, it doesn't matter.
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On September 01 2008 15:21 PsycHOTemplar wrote:
No, it really is. These things go nowhere because the communication is so interspersed, no one can interrupt and ask for clarification or kindly present conflicting information.
I do both regularly.
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Isn't the group of people who can't defend themselves, largely made up of the people you are expecting to stand up to the evil corporation...?
Good point :X Hahaha. Consumers are to blame too.
Who gives a shit who is right, it doesn't matter.
You say this with the presumption I'm in doubt of my opinion :O I'm really not.
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On September 01 2008 15:25 PsycHOTemplar wrote:
You say this with the presumption I'm in doubt of my opinion :O I'm really not.
=[
that's my point.
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Then your point is that you're right and I'm wrong? I will change my opinion if I'm presented with information that makes me realise it's incorrect, but I believe what I think is the truth =/ The same as you do.
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No my point is that if you go onto the internet to debate something when you are not even open to the possibility you are wrong, you might as write it on a wall with one hand while you jack off with the other.
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On September 01 2008 15:21 PsycHOTemplar wrote:Show nested quote +
But the reason it has been a regrettable experience is not simply because you got into an argument on the internet. To claim such would be to avoid the real issue.
No, it really is. These things go nowhere because the communication is so interspersed, no one can interrupt and ask for clarification or kindly present conflicting information.
You have to be more sensitive when you post, or you are going to have problems like this in the future. You bitched at me in the past about something minor, and then did something today several times worse (insulting Walmart employees without making the point you seemed to be, and without any justification, and being horribly unclear due to your shear lack of tact). If I leafed back through the entire thread, I'd find a few other cases where your insensitivity lead to you being misunderstood (or you just rushed out your inappropriate response even though you were capable of a more diplomatic, fair, and valid response). This is not the fault of the communication medium where you are not conveniently awarded an automated method of clarifying your points...
And for the record, I mostly agree with you about the negativism(s) of drugs, but I'm just not trying to bash anyone over the head with it.
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That's unfair, because you've done the exact same thing. I'm always accepting that I might be wrong... I just don't think I'm wrong this time... What do you want from me? lol To change my opinion to match yours even though I think it's incorrect? This is silly. You're basically telling me "You don't want to admit it cause you know I'm right!"
You bitched at me in the past about something minor
You've bitched at me at least three times for not using the proper quotes function lol.
I'm just not trying to bash anyone over the head with it.
I'm a fan of the phrase, "Be the change you want to see in the world," and "Create the world you want to live in." I'm not passive about things I care about.
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On September 01 2008 15:32 PsycHOTemplar wrote:
That's unfair, because you've done the exact same thing. I'm always accepting that I might be wrong... I just don't think I'm wrong this time... What do you want from me? lol To change my opinion to match yours even though I think it's incorrect? This is silly. You're basically telling me "You don't want to admit it cause you know I'm right!"
Maybe I misunderstood you.
My point was that you seem to be more interested in being right or wrong than actually gaining anything from the debate. But, maybe I misunderstand.
And even if you are more interested in being right or wrong, I guess there is certain benefit in that, and it is a trait that most people share as well.
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On September 01 2008 15:32 PsycHOTemplar wrote:You've bitched at me at least three times for not using the proper quotes function lol.
Yeah and I almost completely missed something you said to me TODAY because of that. It's annoying as hell and almost everyone else does things a different way.
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the reason you're wrong is because you think all drug users being bad people is some irrevocable truth. bad people using drugs, sure, i'll believe it. but drug users being bad? that's too much of a blanket statement coming from someone who doesn't know shit about drugs, so how do you feel qualified at all to make such absurd statements? also people who work at walmart are bad too. your view of the world is shallow and snobbish, and you are wrong.
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Don't put words in my mouth. I said neither of those things. I said people who do drugs and nothing else are worthless people. I said people who work at Walmart and do nothing else but drugs aren't redeemed by the fact that they have a job. You interpret what I say negatively because you want to villianise me.... That's fine, but don't expect me to feel like an idiot.
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so bad people who do drugs are bad. got it
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And it took 4 pages for us to come to that conclusion. Isn't that something?
PS: Poor Meta  All you wanted was a way to score alcohol underage, and I turned this thread into a giant retarded argument. I'm sorry :X
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On September 01 2008 15:40 PsycHOTemplar wrote:
Don't put words in my mouth. I said neither of those things. I said people who do drugs and nothing else are worthless people. I said people who work at Walmart and do nothing else but drugs aren't redeemed by the fact that they have a job. You interpret what I say negatively because you want to villianise me.... That's fine, but don't expect me to feel like an idiot.
See, this is the main issue with all of your arguments. I can agree with on that a person who does nothing else but drugs is unproductive to society, but somebody who works 40 hours a week (lets assume they do their job well), pays taxes, and still uses drugs, is clearly still contributing society on some level, no matter how meager it is. Like micronesia said, somebody needs to do the shitty jobs, and maybe the drug use is what allows this person to mentally handle 40 hours at Wal-Mart. Drugs have practical uses beyond simply getting you high, you realize?
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I'm 15 but i can buy alcohol at the supermarket in my village .
I don't understand that you're allowed to drink only after 21 in the US. You should be given all your rights when you're 18.
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On September 01 2008 10:29 PsycHOTemplar wrote:19 unless you go to Quebec
It's 18 in Alberta as well. (Where I live)
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On September 02 2008 03:42 .MistiK wrote:
I don't understand that you're allowed to drink only after 21 in the US. You should be given all your rights when you're 18.
A lot of people feel you should be allowed to buy alcohol once you can get drafted into the military. Smoking is 18.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://www.yeraze.com/images/library/Image/neat/sense.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/5628/sensestillar1.jpg)
