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On August 29 2008 13:32 Luddite wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2008 13:22 DeathByMonkeys wrote:
Lol, and when I go back to macro for 2 seconds in my base my 36 MnM run into 3 lurks and poof... Not to mention invincibility swarm in my base = dead, and its damn near impossible to set up a 3rd, lets not forget imbalisks: when you get over 6 im essentially fucked
Edit will continue rant later after a couple more TvZ losses You don't have to move your MnM, just park them next to your seige tanks and let them rape the zergs base from 200 miles away. Swarms are like, "oh he cast a swarm, I guess i'll move back a few steps". And why do you even need a 3rd? Terrans don't even need to expand, they can easily win off of 2 or even 1 base. Imbalisks are like, the reward you get for surviving such bullshit before that in the matchup.
Uhh... what..? if the terran just parks his army and makes a static defense, a good zerg will expo like a madman until he has defiler tech out to rape that settlement the terran has going, tanks cant move sieged obviously, so he cant 'take a few steps back', and the terran usually doesnt have gosu senses that allow him to react the moment a swarm is cast, half the time i notice a swarm is over my units is when half them are already dead, with half a dozen lurks just burrowing to kill the rest.
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stacked mutas...i hate them so much...
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Fuck terran? Fuck you! If you're serious about any of the posts you've made then lol.
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I've found that as a low-level terran. (D+ at best) TvZ seems to be quite easy for me. Most zergs at this level don't seem to be very good at setting up lurker traps or overtaking medicmarine packs. I'm a firm believer that the matchup is quite balanced overall, though.
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tvz not that bad. just when he bunker rushes you when you 12 hatch and you cant get down an expo =\.
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On August 29 2008 13:35 Luddite wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2008 13:26 Nitrogen23 wrote:On August 29 2008 13:15 Luddite wrote:
I can't believe how rigged tvz is. Everytime he makes a mistake, I get s small advantage. But if I make any mistakes, BOOM, gg.
It's like, oh, 12 speedlings in his base? Well, if I dance them around very well I can pick off a few scvs, great. Of course I can't directly attack his scvs, because his giant robot workers will completely dominate my fragile little dogs.
But if he gets a small force of M and M in my base, all my workers go pop pop pop done. I'm like, oh shit, better send all my zerglings to stop them. Double the supply, should be enough, right? Except that if I don't time the flank perfectly, all my poor zerglings die before doing ANY DAMAGE AT ALL.
GRRRRR this is frustrating. So tired of losing games where I build up a huge early game advantage, only to lose it all to some stupid micro blunder. hahahahaha try using a m&m army vs lurks What? you just have to sit there and watch all the lurks die before they even get into range of your m&m... If any survive you have like 10 seconds to move away before they can even get a shot off.
Sounds like you're forgetting carapace.
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On August 29 2008 13:15 Luddite wrote:
I can't believe how rigged tvz is. Everytime he makes a mistake, I get s small advantage. But if I make any mistakes, BOOM, gg.
It's like, oh, 12 speedlings in his base? Well, if I dance them around very well I can pick off a few scvs, great. Of course I can't directly attack his scvs, because his giant robot workers will completely dominate my fragile little dogs.
But if he gets a small force of M and M in my base, all my workers go pop pop pop done. I'm like, oh shit, better send all my zerglings to stop them. Double the supply, should be enough, right? Except that if I don't time the flank perfectly, all my poor zerglings die before doing ANY DAMAGE AT ALL.
GRRRRR this is frustrating. So tired of losing games where I build up a huge early game advantage, only to lose it all to some stupid micro blunder. You have just convinced me to be a terran!
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On August 29 2008 13:35 Luddite wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2008 13:26 Nitrogen23 wrote:On August 29 2008 13:15 Luddite wrote:
I can't believe how rigged tvz is. Everytime he makes a mistake, I get s small advantage. But if I make any mistakes, BOOM, gg.
It's like, oh, 12 speedlings in his base? Well, if I dance them around very well I can pick off a few scvs, great. Of course I can't directly attack his scvs, because his giant robot workers will completely dominate my fragile little dogs.
But if he gets a small force of M and M in my base, all my workers go pop pop pop done. I'm like, oh shit, better send all my zerglings to stop them. Double the supply, should be enough, right? Except that if I don't time the flank perfectly, all my poor zerglings die before doing ANY DAMAGE AT ALL.
GRRRRR this is frustrating. So tired of losing games where I build up a huge early game advantage, only to lose it all to some stupid micro blunder. hahahahaha try using a m&m army vs lurks What? you just have to sit there and watch all the lurks die before they even get into range of your m&m... If any survive you have like 10 seconds to move away before they can even get a shot off.
lurks outrange marines, silly.
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switch to protoss
don't listen to nitrogen he's a douche bag
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You are mistaking your lack of ability as an imbalance in the matchup. I suggest that you learn to play better.
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I think TvZ is imbalanced towards Terran. When i lose its because i fucked up horribly, but overall i think terran is super strong.
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Equal lved terrans will usually beat zergs of equal level
Zergs will usually beat terrans when the map favors it or when they are facing lower lv terrans
Its all about the hive timing man
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On August 29 2008 14:02 Slithe wrote:
You are mistaking your lack of ability as an imbalance in the matchup. I suggest that you learn to play better.
:/ I don't like being harsh but it's sadly true.
Just practice the match up a bit more, or perhaps even try playing in the terran player's shoes and play some TvZ. See what fucks you up when you're a Terran vs. Zerg, then use that to your advantage when you switch back.
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On August 29 2008 14:02 nemY wrote:
switch to protoss
don't listen to nitrogen he's a douche bag
i hate you nemy
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On August 29 2008 13:32 Luddite wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2008 13:22 DeathByMonkeys wrote:
Lol, and when I go back to macro for 2 seconds in my base my 36 MnM run into 3 lurks and poof... Not to mention invincibility swarm in my base = dead, and its damn near impossible to set up a 3rd, lets not forget imbalisks: when you get over 6 im essentially fucked
Edit will continue rant later after a couple more TvZ losses You don't have to move your MnM, just park them next to your seige tanks and let them rape the zergs base from 200 miles away. Swarms are like, "oh he cast a swarm, I guess i'll move back a few steps". And why do you even need a 3rd? Terrans don't even need to expand, they can easily win off of 2 or even 1 base. Imbalisks are like, the reward you get for surviving such bullshit before that in the matchup.
Because when seige tanks are in seige mode shooting from over 9000 miles away they can evade the swarm no prob...
And when I do move back from the swarm theres 3 more cast right behind it, and terrans don't need a 3rd? how about when you can't break the zerg because they just hide behind there swarms and defend their bases with nydus canals, then you need a 3rd... and at that point they have imbalisks
Not to mention while im 1ta2ta3ta5o click vessel "i" click vessel "i" click vessel "i" click vessel "i" click vessel "i" you're 1a2a3a4a then whatever the hotkey is for swarm
/insert random return to base moment to macro
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Yeah that's the imbalance of that matchup: Terran can lose more than Zerg without being at a disadvantage, and M&M are so effective that even a small force can do major damage. I've seen quite a few pro games where the Zerg gains an early game advantage because he kills some marines or SCVs but in mid-game it suddenly doesn't matter anymore, the Terran still has a fuckton of M&M ready anyway (from 2 bases only), ready to roll over you with a timing attack. If your 3rd gas is undefended or your defilers pop out too late you can just write 'gg'; Zerg can never come back from a disadvantage in ZvT unless you're Jaedong and even then it's ridiculously hard. Terran on the other hand can always come back in that matchup. But the Zerg is simply not allowed to make any mistakes. Try to play it very cautiously, and do not try to win it fast. Do not waste units. Do not attack the Terran at all unless you are VERY confident that you can do major damage at this very moment. Wasting units at his choke is the best and fastest way to lose the game, because you won't have enough when he goes for a counter attack.
Slowly build up your advantage and map control. Make sure you never lose expos. Make sure you kill enough vessels - if you don't manage to kill some vessels it'll be very hard for you.
Once you can pump a decent amount of ultra/ling/defiler you can become much more aggressive. Until then, i.e. most of the game, you're always at risk of losing right away (always remember that), so you have to be careful and defensive, pump out a lot of drones but have exactly the right amount of units ready to defend against his attacks at the right time. You also have to worry about dropships. The Terran doesn't need to care about all this - he simply pumps M&M continuously. The Zerg on the other hand has to play smart.
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On August 29 2008 14:14 Tsumi wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2008 14:02 Slithe wrote:
You are mistaking your lack of ability as an imbalance in the matchup. I suggest that you learn to play better. :/ I don't like being harsh but it's sadly true. Just practice the match up a bit more, or perhaps even try playing in the terran player's shoes and play some TvZ. See what fucks you up when you're a Terran vs. Zerg, then use that to your advantage when you switch back.
Yeah i know, I think it should be obvious that I made this blog after a string of losses against terrans.
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On August 29 2008 14:17 DeathByMonkeys wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2008 13:32 Luddite wrote:On August 29 2008 13:22 DeathByMonkeys wrote:
Lol, and when I go back to macro for 2 seconds in my base my 36 MnM run into 3 lurks and poof... Not to mention invincibility swarm in my base = dead, and its damn near impossible to set up a 3rd, lets not forget imbalisks: when you get over 6 im essentially fucked
Edit will continue rant later after a couple more TvZ losses You don't have to move your MnM, just park them next to your seige tanks and let them rape the zergs base from 200 miles away. Swarms are like, "oh he cast a swarm, I guess i'll move back a few steps". And why do you even need a 3rd? Terrans don't even need to expand, they can easily win off of 2 or even 1 base. Imbalisks are like, the reward you get for surviving such bullshit before that in the matchup. Because when seige tanks are in seige mode shooting from over 9000 miles away they can evade the swarm no prob... And when I do move back from the swarm theres 3 more cast right behind it, and terrans don't need a 3rd? how about when you can't break the zerg because they just hide behind there swarms and defend their bases with nydus canals, then you need a 3rd... and at that point they have imbalisks Not to mention while im 1ta2ta3ta5o click vessel "i" click vessel "i" click vessel "i" click vessel "i" click vessel "i" you're 1a2a3a4a then whatever the hotkey is for swarm /insert random return to base moment to macro
The seige tanks just kill the defiler before it can even get into range to cast swarm! And anyway, notice that all the things that you're complaining about, come at hive tech. It's like, "well since I didn't manage to kill the zerg in the first 15 minutes, now this game will become difficult". Whereas the zerg is just struggling to survive long enough to get some good units.
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On August 29 2008 13:35 Grobyc wrote:Show nested quote +On August 29 2008 13:27 Luddite wrote:On August 29 2008 13:19 Grobyc wrote:
Well you have to think about why you have a early game advantage => because you went for a dozen speedlings, of course you have the advantage, but he choose an economy route or tech route so midgame he will have a huge advantage, thats why you usually dont see a lot of zerg players get a dozen speedlings right away in TvZ, many get only 4-6, sometimes none at all. Actually I usually play a fairly standard 12 hatch build. Still, it always seems like speedlings in their base should do more damage than they do. I mean, even once they're inside a relatively undefended base, you have to work sooooo hard just to keep them alive. Whereas a terran can just park his marines behind the minerals, and BOOM, invincibility mode. And midgame is no easier there have been plenty of games where I had an advantage in both economy and overall supply, and very suddenly lost everything. Like my mutas just happen to fly over his army, and instantly die. Whereas if i control them perfectly (not July level control obviously, just doing simple stuff), I get like a 10 supply gain from them, at best. As soon as my mutas die he can just attack move into my base, whereas if i kill his army in the field I still have to very carefully control my attack, or it can all turn around again. As for terran behind minerals = invinciblity mode, that shouldnt happen often, does he just run past 2+ sunkens and your lings or something? his army shouldnt be able to do that and survive, your lurkers should be out soon after he has an MnM army available to do that, which will rape those mnm hiding behind your minerals.
Well I played a game today where we both attacked each others natural at the same time. Both of lost most of army against the defenses, but broke through. However, my army was slowly worn down by the new stuff he built, whereas his was just unscathed by anything i threw at it.
Of course marines also get in from drops, which are incredibly annoying. You can't just attack them with lurkers, since it's so easy for them to just run away as the lurkers burrow. You have to perfectly time it so that your zerglings arive as the lurkers burrow, or else you're just not going to accomplish anything at all.
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people complain about anything
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EPT
