EPTBoxer Should Quit Starcraft - Page 2
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ShmotZ
United States581 Posts
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BottleAbuser
Korea (South)1888 Posts
"He's Boxer!" On the other side: "But still human." WHO WILL PREVAIL? | ||
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iLjh
United States160 Posts
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St3MoR
Spain3256 Posts
I BELIEVE in the emperor | ||
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Narrator
United States868 Posts
If July can take an OSL at this time, BoxeR definitely can. EDIT: Didn't read already posted replies before posting. I still think BoxeR can make it. =/ | ||
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kpcrew
Korea (South)1071 Posts
boxer practically defined the game of starcraft everyone knows who lim yo hwan is and even though he is busy in the air force, he is still pulling off awesome moves like the lockdown on that arbiter (i think it was free but i'm not sure) and the nukes vs odin (even though he lost, it was still extremely entertaining to watch) | ||
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Emptyness
Bulgaria1016 Posts
 , but I can not agree with your blog because:1. I don't want Boxer to win Golden Mouse, another title or something - I just want to watch him and from him - to produce entertaining games (not all games, just once in a while and that will make me happy). 2. You said that Boxer is the master of reinvention and he prove it not once back in the years - why? - because his strong mind and mentality - and that is something ACE and the army can not affect at all - even for 2 years of service. 3. Yep, the "Boxer effect" is something scary and maybe even the last scrub will train hard if he is facing Boxer, but don't you think Boxer will train hard also? I do think, and he has something that the scrub doesn't - he is Boxer, they fear him and he does not fear some scrubs, because they are scrubs. 4. He wants to play. - That's the strongest argument I can think of and that means - "I will make everything in my power to train, to adapt, to think and to win a games", because this is Boxer - even when he is in ACE - he plays for win and never give up. Now he will be out of ACE soon - and if he wants to play - I just can't see any "scrubs" defeating him. Yes, maybe the new generation of top-notch progamers can defeat him, but then again --> see point 1   .That's all I can say about this blog. I don't want to argue with anyone, fan or not, that's just my opinion  . It may be wrong, but hey, I can hope, can't I  ? | ||
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riotjune
United States3394 Posts
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SoMuchBetter
Australia10606 Posts
people have been saying that come backs are hard across every generation of starcraft. boxer never really even went away. throughout his entire military service he was still active, to what degree we can't really tell, but in the very least boxer has proved through the proleague on ace that he is capable of at least hanging with the best (unlike a certain clon) | ||
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REDBLUEGREEN
Germany1904 Posts
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jambonkingcool
Canada186 Posts
And if really Boxer can't catch up, he should at least do like Garimto did: try his best for a decent amount of time and then take his decision from the results he got. | ||
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Hippopotamus
1914 Posts
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Fzero
United States1503 Posts
It's a little bit like Brett Favre (I KNOW you all want to hate this, but hear me out). He can still do it, better than the young kids, better than most anyone. Maybe he doesn't have the same arm strength as always, maybe he can't get out of the pocket quite as fast, or learn the massive playbook the coaches have these days.. but can he still WIN GAMES? Yes, definitely. Boxer can still make it happen, he just needs to WANT to win. | ||
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Ack1027
United States7873 Posts
 When I first saw the title of the blog I was thinking it was a sarcastic title. I was hoping it would be an article that would take the ' Boxer should quit mentality ' and flip it. However, after reading through it a few times all I found myself doing was shaking my head. I think you deserve a proper response from a prominent Boxer fan like myself because of all the hard work you put into every article you write and the quality that has come to be assumed when it is followed by ' - Plexa ' I'll be the first to admit: Yes you're right. If Boxer chooses to continue as a progamer [ which he will ] in SKT1, things are gonna be difficult. No, difficult is an understatement. The leap you described is almost insurmountable and yes as BottleAbuser said here: On August 08 2008 23:35 BottleAbuser wrote: So, in the end... on one side we have "He's Boxer!" On the other side: "But still human." WHO WILL PREVAIL? at least people still have the respect to know that if anyone could do it, ' it's boxer ' So what does Boxer have going for him? His micro is always unquestionable, although has been shaky in a game or two the past year. His macro has improved greatly since his dominating period nobody can deny this, but still it isn't considered S-Class and consistent. His sense of star is among the highest, his mind games are paramount and in my humble opinion he, rA and Garimto share the title of having the best map preparation. You also addressed cheese. I cringed a little at this passage. You stated that this is his biggest asset. I think out of all the articles I've ever read by you this is the only flat out incongruity that I've read and I had trouble swallowing. You love Boxer obviously as you have said many times, but really? You think cheese is his biggest asset? Even in the context of in-game mechanics cheese is Boxer's ace up his sleeve? There's a reason flash and other gamers get looked down upon. Yes they may do boxer-esque cheeses but they never do BOXER ' cheeses '. By that I mean 3-0'ing a Yellow in a semi, by that I mean sometimes winning games by sheer unsurmountable willpower. The only other time I have *felt* will winning a game through a tv screen was when JulyZerg first appeared on the scene and his lings seemingly *willed* their way into victory. Not only this, but when Boxer wins with cheese its like seeing the game fast-forwarded. Sure, the tech isn't there so you won't see Boxer locking down a shitload of carriers or vulture mining his way through pylons or nuke rushing, but the style is the same. Even with marines and scvs who only have mining/building/repairing[terran imba -___-] and stimming abilities outside their normal attack he makes magic in the beginning minutes of the game. It's hard to come with names who can create this same magic with gay strats looked down upon like cheese. If Boxer played Zerg his 5pools would be the same as any other zerg. Nobody would say he is a genius. But because he is Terran, because he is the emperor, because he seemingly *wills* his way into winning with Terran cheese as only Terran can, that's why other Terrans get looked down upon and he gets called a genius. The other thing I would like to address is: Boxer wants to be a 30 year old gamer. In fact the first, even before Nada. Even if this guy was Mumyung [ back in the day ] I would still find space in my heart to cheer for him. If not for the pure advancement of the e-Sport that we all follow [ or followed ] religiously, this is a great victory and a huge fuck you to the nay sayers. But is this man Mumyung? Hell no. This is Boxer. The traditional representative of starcraft progaming as a whole wants to be a 30 year old gamer. He's won his OSLs he's been top KESPA longer than anyone, he's beaten rivals, lost to rivals. He's cried and gone through harsh teams like IS and ACE. Who is anyone to say that he can't and shouldn't pursue being a 30+ gamer. On a more personal note, unlike the gamers that I see nowadays are a hell of a lot more machine-like and don't seem to love the game like the old gamers. And even if they do they are too young to know it. I stayed in korea for the last 2 months and during that time even I, who was not really intending on following progaming, simply had to because it was everywhere and conveniently on TV all the time. Watching Flash, Jaedong, Lux, etc all those people on the Power Rank yes I was impressed but none of them had sense of star. Best was the only one I could cheer for because he has that flair of old gamers. In the July vs Best final I didn't really care who won because July is a zerg hero to me and Best was the student of Kingdom, humble and just generally a bad-ass with old school player vibes. Anyway what I'm trying to say is even Flash and Jaedong who are considered the highest calibre of pro-gamers ever to exist, don't have sense of star. They've had plenty of time to cement themselves and maybe the fact they are both good at the same time denies them the opportunity to become bonjwas and grand slams and all the other highest pro-gaming achievements but to use this as a reason is a insult to Oov, July, Xellos, Boxer, Reach all the greats. In their time its not like their skill was so overly higher than their closest competition. [ Maybe Oov ] People are quick to say Flash/Jaedong/New generation players have done so much for this game but if they were to retire right now. If they were to quit and never play another game would people still be in awe? I don't think so....in fact I think people are excited because they are seeing the process it takes to be the superstar champions. They're both young and they have unlimited potential, but if they quit now I'm betting Boxer's in-game only results would stand out more to fans. Why is this? Even if they have higher winning percentages against arguably more competitive players? Even if they would destroy Boxer? I think you know the answer. The last thing I would like to say is. You forgot to address Boxer's love for this game and what it represents. You have to remember Boxer choose Oov, the most dominating player of all time. Yes, even more dominating than TL's beloved Savior. If Boxer's desire entails becoming a progamer, or becoming a caster, or becoming a coach. We as fans who have watched him evolve OWE it to give him the choice. All he has done for us, this game, this community and someone is gonna have the balls to tell him he should quit or not pursue something he genuinely lives and breathes? It sure as fuck isn't going to be me, and I think if you give it some time you'll realize its not up to you either. I'd like to end with this quote of myself from 2004. I feel its appropriate. On September 18 2004 09:39 Ack1027 wrote: For those of you who have doubts about Boxer ever becoming great again, let me just say one thing. Before I went to Korea 3 months ago, I always ALWAYS wanted to meet Boxer in person, for my age it was like one of my life goals, I was only 9-10 when I saw his first plays on Game-Q on a ghetto ass computer and ever since then he has inspired me, not only through starcraft but because of the amazing dedication he has. I used to go to Korea every summer for 4 summers straight, and the very last time I went, the seeds of starcraft were planted. When I got back to America I was introduced to Starcraft and omg I fell in love with this game, and when my cousins were like ' Omg have you heard of Eem Yo Hwan?!? ' and they showed me his amazing plays I was in fucking shock. I watched him climb up all the way through the competition and tear through his opponents. And just 3 months ago, I was excited as BALLS to get to fucking Korea, because my family had financial issues I didn't continue my Korean vacation every summer so I hadn't been there in 5 years. And now I was fully aware of Starcraft's prestige. As soon as I got on the plane all I could think about was ' Wow maybe I can meet Boxer/Yellow/Garimto/Other players and maybe even get a autograph and a picture. The first match I was able to attend was Boxer vs Nal_Rock in the past challenge league [ I think that was it ] and I'm even in that VOD, in the best seat possible I went 3 hours early and the only reason I didn't get 1st row is because that's reserved for his fan club. He left promptly after the match and I soon realized that, that was going to happen every time and I'd NEVER get to meet with him. But that all changed when the Tucson league came about and the match between SKT1 and Hanbit began. I realized my terror as the teams came in because I was sitting on the Hanbit side - _-v But I said fuck it, and as soon as Boxer was about to leave to go buy a drink or something I stopped him and said ' Hi I'm from America, can I get your autograph? ' He smiled and said sure, what's your name? I still have that paper in the Boxer DVD box and I look at it from time to time. I've followed him pretty well and I can tell you he is a humble guy only trying to do his best in the one thing in life he has found that is FUN and earns him money while meeting great people. My previous thoughts about him were only further affirmed as I watched him play in real life, not only in VODs and his grand amount of concentration. Boxer never lost his greatness, he will always be great. | ||
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Klive5ive
United Kingdom6056 Posts
Boxer is the greatest player of all time in many peoples arbitrary rankings, I believe it's because he's the best strategist. He tries things others wouldn't even attempt. Who knows what will happen when he starts practicing full time once more? If he quits now he can never go back, he's only going to get slower. He has a chance now, even if it's just a small one, to do well in a competition, to amaze us all once more. I don't think he should throw that away for fear of losing to new players. | ||
Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
On August 09 2008 00:04 Emptyness wrote: You're more than welcome to disagree with this blog, thats the entire point of posting a controversial argument! And in fact your post is very good rebuttal to the initial blog <3 kudosI respect you, Plexa, very much - I really do , but I can not agree with your blog because:1. I don't want Boxer to win Golden Mouse, another title or something - I just want to watch him and from him - to produce entertaining games (not all games, just once in a while and that will make me happy). 2. You said that Boxer is the master of reinvention and he prove it not once back in the years - why? - because his strong mind and mentality - and that is something ACE and the army can not affect at all - even for 2 years of service. 3. Yep, the "Boxer effect" is something scary and maybe even the last scrub will train hard if he is facing Boxer, but don't you think Boxer will train hard also? I do think, and he has something that the scrub doesn't - he is Boxer, they fear him and he does not fear some scrubs, because they are scrubs. 4. He wants to play. - That's the strongest argument I can think of and that means - "I will make everything in my power to train, to adapt, to think and to win a games", because this is Boxer - even when he is in ACE - he plays for win and never give up. Now he will be out of ACE soon - and if he wants to play - I just can't see any "scrubs" defeating him. Yes, maybe the new generation of top-notch progamers can defeat him, but then again --> see point 1 .That's all I can say about this blog. I don't want to argue with anyone, fan or not, that's just my opinion . It may be wrong, but hey, I can hope, can't I ?From your post (and some of the others!) there are two things on which to judge this by; 1) What is success for Boxer? 2) Is his motivation to play enough for him to succeed (to the extent in 1). The first part is completely subjective. Some people just want to watch his games and watch him play creatively, while others expect him to be a starleague contender. With this varying level of expectation there is atleast bound to be some disappointment amongst fans (unless he wins a golden mouse of course). But an important thing to factor in is what does success mean to Boxer?. What level of play will satisfy his urges to get better? Being a natural champion i doubt he would be settling for anything less than starleague contention. And this brings up nicely point (2) Does Boxer have the determination to get to that point? Difficult to say really. While the margins are larger than they were before Boxer has been the master of reinvention and revival. He has faced some very hard times (especially in 2003) and has come back even stronger each time. Somehow i don't think Boxer will give up, ever, theres too much riding on him. But at the same time i don't think he'll get back to starleague contention because of the enormous setback he has taken. Then comes this question - what is the best way for Boxer to spend his time? Coaching others and creating the best progaming team in existence like he did before, or similarly diverting his attention to other facets of esports. OR should he continue to play and likely not go anywhere. Personally to me the better spending of his time is in coaching or similar rather than playing. And thats why Boxer should (but won't) quit Starcraft. | ||
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1sd2sd3sd
660 Posts
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Gaetele
Esper760 Posts
waaah boxerrr | ||
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bubblegumbo
Taiwan1296 Posts
Once he leaves the Air Force and goes back to SKT1(safe assumption?), we should watch his performance over 6 months, then judge. Boxer has the never give up attitude that only a rare few pro-gamers can match, for example NaDa and maybe July. Incidentally those 2 are the only holders of the Golden Mouse today. I am sure Boxer felt more encouraged about seeing July's fortune this year, and honestly we can't judge him too well from his performances in ACE since he cannot practice as much there compared to other pro-gamers. It is the army after all! I still believe that Boxer has the passion to win, we've see many players that have lost their drive and faded into mediocrity, but BOXER IS STILL FIGHTING! | ||
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MyTHicaL
France1070 Posts
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