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It seems like you care. If she cares too, and I hope for you that she does, hopefully you can find a way to patch it up by seeing a councilor again.
As others have said, it's impossible for us here to tell you anything with any level of certainty, that's why you need a councilor to get to the root cause of the issue by talking to both people. So I can only speculate, and my speculation leads me to two or three things which may be happening.
Good: She's frustrated with how things are going, and it could be for a variety of reasons: Maybe the magic is gone, maybe she's bored with her activities and lashes out at you because she wants her life to be more exciting and consciously or subconsciously expects you to fix it, maybe years of gaming and possibly not paying attention to her or giving her what she desires left a bitter taste in her mouth about games and she's grown irrationally intolerant to your activities, but perhaps to some extent it's understandable because that was cultivated by previous relationship dynamics? In that case, a councilor may be able to open a line of communication, boundaries may be set, you'd be allowed to have your own little microcosm of freedom, and you guys would hopefully find new things to do together. Perhaps the root cause of the problem is based in a lack of communications, maybe she never explicitly told you what she wants - maybe she doesn't even really know that she wants more than to sit in front of a TV and needs to do some introspection too and hopefully share her findings with you.
Bad: She has a deeply ingrained dislike for gaming for personal/cultural and other reasons, and just is a controlling person, regardless of her previous experiences. Her tendency to control people is deeply psychological and cannot be fixed.
Bad but different: She's frustrated with how things are going for the same potential reasons as good, but has no motivation to find compromises.
Worst possible outcome: It's Germany's fault.
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Northern Ireland27207 Posts
On October 01 2019 01:20 ffswowsucks wrote:so basically im screwed. 
Not at all, it’s just difficult.
Bear in mind, I assume this is the case anyway, you’re probably venting stuff on this corner of the internet, under a pseudonym, possibly being more open or honest about your feelings than anywhere else because of that distance.
Which is useful for getting advice and validation of your feelings, precisely because we don’t know you or her, nor have any loyalties to either.
However the negative side of that is the same thing, we’re getting your feelings and frustrations, possibly ones you don’t vent elsewhere and so this is the outlet valve for some quite long-term frustrations. Also they’re yours, we don’t know your wife’s experiences re the same household situation.
So no, not hopeless at all, especially if I apply the lens that you’re being open mostly about your negative emotions. Djapz basically said what I think, but better than I would have.
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United Kingdom10443 Posts
You work hard and help provide for the family.
You deserve time to yourself and to have things you want.
Speak to your partner about the money/time you are both contributing to the household (it should be equal) but let them know you need time to unwind, everyone does. You have kids and that has to come first, if your partner makes a reasonable request then you should consider it but trying to control every aspect of your life? Fuck that.
Kids and marriage make it hard to split from a relationship that is incompatible/turned sour
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Northern Ireland27207 Posts
On October 01 2019 17:57 KelsierSC wrote:
You work hard and help provide for the family.
You deserve time to yourself and to have things you want.
Speak to your partner about the money/time you are both contributing to the household (it should be equal) but let them know you need time to unwind, everyone does. You have kids and that has to come first, if your partner makes a reasonable request then you should consider it but trying to control every aspect of your life? Fuck that.
Kids and marriage make it hard to split from a relationship that is incompatible/turned sour
I wouldn’t bring up the money and whatnot, at least in that way.
It’s possible she already feels a bit unfulfilled and the domain of the household is her only real area that she can feel useful and thus she is overcontrolling because of this? Bringing up parity and what wages you’re bringing in or whatever would just feed those negative feelings potentially.
Was she like this before? Does she have a career comparable to before you had kids now, or a decent social life?
If she doesn’t to one or both of those then it’s possible she just feels very down about herself and is snapping at the person who is around and isn’t her children.
Also might explain why she’s still so close to her parents in the way you described if she doesn’t have other adults around to socialise with.
Not assuming anything, just trying to get a better picture of the other half of this equation and what might potentially be going on with her too.
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We don't have all the information but it sounds like something happened in Madrid that made her plan to split up with you to be honest. But she doesn't want to do it directly, so instead she made a fuss telling you to choose between the chair or to leave the house. Obviously she just wants you to leave the house. She doesn't actually care about the chair, but it's convenient. You have children and a house so it sucks.
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I sympathize with both you and your wife. You feel like you need time off after the kids are asleep to recharge your mental and emotional batteries. And the wife is equally, or more, in need it seems. And this hasn't been properly addressed, so now you are in a place where it has turned into a power struggle with ultimatums being made about things that should be trivial. You not only have your previous problem to cope with, but also an adversarial relationship where you are not communicating constructively.
What you should or shouldn't do is all about context. A relationship is a complicated thing and with 10 years of marriage there is likely to be a long history there, maybe some up and downs, maybe some give and take. And maybe there are expectations that have not come to pass for one or both of you. Maybe one or both of you feel like the other one is not doing enough.
You also now have kids, with all the work, both physical, mental and emotional cost that brings into play. Who has been tending to their needs and wants? Who has been doing all the planning and double checking that everything is in order there? How is work in the household distributed? Cleaning? Laundry? Cooking? Making sure there is butter in the fridge? Making sure the bills are paid? Planning extra activities?
It is also relevant what kind of jobs you guys have. If you bring home work or have work grinding away during your off-hours, that puts an extra strain on the person and on the relationship.
It sounds to me that the wife doesn't feel like things are fair at the moment. Maybe she is lonely and the only way she is able to express that is to hate the chair you talked about. You already had counciling where it was clear that the computer was an issue. And even though changes were made, were the changes great enough?
I suggest that you do what you can to fix your relationship and don't give up. Divorce is awful, much worse than you imagine, especially if you and the wife are not on good terms. I suggest you completely give up your recreational computer time, gaming, reading articles, listening to music by yourself for an extended period. I suggest you crawl on your knees to move back in. Spend your time with the wife and try to remember the good times. Talk to her with kind words without anger. And don't get too upset if she is still angry with you a while.
Eventually, if you are more helpful and more present, she might soften up. At that point, you can talk honestly about things. You can talk about needs and fairness. You can be on the same side and not on opposite sides. Maybe things will feel lighter and less stressful. Maybe you'll be reminded of why you guys married each other in the first place. And if it fails, at least you tried. It only cost you a couple months and did more good than if you sit in exile at your parents' house.
At that point you can reevaluate how you want to spend your time. One of the pitfalls of parenthood is to not make any adjustments. You need to prioritise what to do and what not to do. And some things can be done faster or in smarter ways, both when it comes to "fun" and "work". Some people throw away half their lives staring at facebook, for example.
Doing all these things is easier said than done. It has a cost. Just remember that you are in a bit of a crisis. Maybe my advice is not the best. You'll have to decide if it fits the context which you find yourself in. Good luck.
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United Kingdom10443 Posts
On October 03 2019 21:33 stenole wrote:
I suggest that you do what you can to fix your relationship and don't give up. Divorce is awful, much worse than you imagine, especially if you and the wife are not on good terms. I suggest you completely give up your recreational computer time, gaming, reading articles, listening to music by yourself for an extended period. I suggest you crawl on your knees to move back in. Spend your time with the wife and try to remember the good times. Talk to her with kind words without anger. And don't get too upset if she is still angry with you a while.
Eventually, if you are more helpful and more present, she might soften up. At that point, you can talk honestly about things. You can talk about needs and fairness. You can be on the same side and not on opposite sides. Maybe things will feel lighter and less stressful. Maybe you'll be reminded of why you guys married each other in the first place. And if it fails, at least you tried. It only cost you a couple months and did more good than if you sit in exile at your parents' house.
At that point you can reevaluate how you want to spend your time. One of the pitfalls of parenthood is to not make any adjustments. You need to prioritise what to do and what not to do. And some things can be done faster or in smarter ways, both when it comes to "fun" and "work". Some people throw away half their lives staring at facebook, for example.
Doing all these things is easier said than done. It has a cost. Just remember that you are in a bit of a crisis. Maybe my advice is not the best. You'll have to decide if it fits the context which you find yourself in. Good luck.
This is good advice if you want to give up your manhood and your dignity. Don't just do what ever women want , stand up for yourself. You will lose all her respect if you just roll over.
If she wants to have a reasonable discussion then go for it, but if she makes a request that you can't have any time to yourself and need to just work / take care of children then ,to be blunt, she can fuck off.
As others have stated it's difficult to give advice without full context so i'll give my final word that having no relationship is better than a bad relationship.
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Northern Ireland27207 Posts
On October 03 2019 21:42 KelsierSC wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2019 21:33 stenole wrote:
I suggest that you do what you can to fix your relationship and don't give up. Divorce is awful, much worse than you imagine, especially if you and the wife are not on good terms. I suggest you completely give up your recreational computer time, gaming, reading articles, listening to music by yourself for an extended period. I suggest you crawl on your knees to move back in. Spend your time with the wife and try to remember the good times. Talk to her with kind words without anger. And don't get too upset if she is still angry with you a while.
Eventually, if you are more helpful and more present, she might soften up. At that point, you can talk honestly about things. You can talk about needs and fairness. You can be on the same side and not on opposite sides. Maybe things will feel lighter and less stressful. Maybe you'll be reminded of why you guys married each other in the first place. And if it fails, at least you tried. It only cost you a couple months and did more good than if you sit in exile at your parents' house.
At that point you can reevaluate how you want to spend your time. One of the pitfalls of parenthood is to not make any adjustments. You need to prioritise what to do and what not to do. And some things can be done faster or in smarter ways, both when it comes to "fun" and "work". Some people throw away half their lives staring at facebook, for example.
Doing all these things is easier said than done. It has a cost. Just remember that you are in a bit of a crisis. Maybe my advice is not the best. You'll have to decide if it fits the context which you find yourself in. Good luck. This is good advice if you want to give up your manhood and your dignity. Don't just do what ever women want , stand up for yourself. You will lose all her respect if you just roll over. If she wants to have a reasonable discussion then go for it, but if she makes a request that you can't have any time to yourself and need to just work / take care of children then ,to be blunt, she can fuck off. As others have stated it's difficult to give advice without full context so i'll give my final word that having no relationship is better than a bad relationship.
I would agree 100% with the last part, also on context.
Scenario A - She’s just unreasonably controlling because well, she just is like that.
Scenario B - She might be completely miserable for various reasons that even she isn’t aware of without some conversation and good counselling or whatever.
They’re such different scenarios with such different responses it’s difficult to give any kind of catch-all advice on it.
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There's a lot of different issues. But, the main thing I always ask is "what outcome do you want from all this?" and then obviously, "how do you get there?".
Do you want to get divorced? Because it sounds like that's the path you're on.
To answer specific questions I don't think it was reasonable she asked so much detailed info about the surgery. It sounds like this is part of a bigger issue where she doesn't feel like you're doing enough to help out around the house/raising the kids.
My in laws live with me currently and I don't like it, but they're very helpful and stay out of my way. I also don't share a language with them, which I find helpful. But, when my wife is talking to them and my kids are asleep or whatever, I use that time for gaming. So it kinda works out.
It sounds like you game a lot. I get it, I like to game. But, you need to put your priorities straight. No matter how much you like gaming, you've got to admit your wife and your kids are more important. You need to make sure your actions are reflecting that reality.
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On October 04 2019 03:59 Cauld wrote:
There's a lot of different issues. But, the main thing I always ask is "what outcome do you want from all this?" and then obviously, "how do you get there?".
Do you want to get divorced? Because it sounds like that's the path you're on.
To answer specific questions I don't think it was reasonable she asked so much detailed info about the surgery. It sounds like this is part of a bigger issue where she doesn't feel like you're doing enough to help out around the house/raising the kids.
My in laws live with me currently and I don't like it, but they're very helpful and stay out of my way. I also don't share a language with them, which I find helpful. But, when my wife is talking to them and my kids are asleep or whatever, I use that time for gaming. So it kinda works out.
It sounds like you game a lot. I get it, I like to game. But, you need to put your priorities straight. No matter how much you like gaming, you've got to admit your wife and your kids are more important. You need to make sure your actions are reflecting that reality.
To update a bit. My wife is a bit cold with me but today after taken advice from a lawyer I went and told her I want to move on with a divorce. she completely wasn't expecting something like that from me and she lost it. Good thing is she wants to work out a way for both of us to separate in a good manner. Monday we have appointment with the counselor to see what we will do after all. My wife also told me today that if I want to go back with her I will have to go for gaming rehab....wtf....
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I get that you are frustrated, but be careful before giving that all up, and try to consider it from the other side. This is a bell you won't be able to unring, and will make a huge difference to your kid's lives.
FWIW 3-4 hours of gaming on week nights for a parent of two kids with a full-time job is a LOT. 1-2 on nights you have nothing exciting planned with your wife or kids is a bit more realistic.
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On October 08 2019 21:23 Tal wrote:
I get that you are frustrated, but be careful before giving that all up, and try to consider it from the other side. This is a bell you won't be able to unring, and will make a huge difference to your kid's lives.
FWIW 3-4 hours of gaming on week nights for a parent of two kids with a full-time job is a LOT. 1-2 on nights you have nothing exciting planned with your wife or kids is a bit more realistic.
Seriously... i'm lucky if i get to have 2 hours in a week. and I only have one child. If you really are playing that much it may be a matter of your wife feeling like shes not a priority to you, which could ruin any marriage. In your head you might be thinking " its fine if im up till 2 AM playing my wife is sleeping", but she's probably awake in the bed angry that shes sleeping alone even though she's married.
on a more personal note, are you guys still intimate (well obviously not right now, but before this fight about the chair)? i understand if you dont want to answer that.
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Appreciate the update. Hope it all works out for the best. As long as you're doing what you truly think is best then I'm behind you.
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On October 08 2019 21:56 Trainrunnef wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2019 21:23 Tal wrote:
I get that you are frustrated, but be careful before giving that all up, and try to consider it from the other side. This is a bell you won't be able to unring, and will make a huge difference to your kid's lives.
FWIW 3-4 hours of gaming on week nights for a parent of two kids with a full-time job is a LOT. 1-2 on nights you have nothing exciting planned with your wife or kids is a bit more realistic. Seriously... i'm lucky if i get to have 2 hours in a week. and I only have one child. If you really are playing that much it may be a matter of your wife feeling like shes not a priority to you, which could ruin any marriage. In your head you might be thinking " its fine if im up till 2 AM playing my wife is sleeping", but she's probably awake in the bed angry that shes sleeping alone even though she's married. on a more personal note, are you guys still intimate (well obviously not right now, but before this fight about the chair)? i understand if you dont want to answer that.
yeah we had great sex life to be honest and i'm not ashamed to talk about it.
Someone said to me today if a person you are with doesn't want to be with you because u have a hobby then its a red flag for them. So true.
Also to someone that says "ruin kids lives" it is better to stop bad communication with my wife and fights in front of the kids than pretend everything is fine and deal with it like most hypocrites do. For example, my cousin had a child and lives with his wife in Germany. For the past 6 years they have huge problems between one another and they even split their house in 2 separate spaces. My cousin is from divorced parents so is his wife and he is only staying with her till his son becomes 16 years old. I don't get how they stand to be living in a lie.
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That's unfortunate. I don't think it's too uncommon either, a lot of people get sick of each other and more demanding as time goes on. The situation is complicated by having children, because it is like glue that sticks you to each other even if you are being unpleasant.
I wish you can heal your relationship with your wife, find out what she really wants and if you're able to give that to her while still being happy yourself, live a good life. But I want to say don't stay together just for the kids. If you have to live separately, that may be the best thing, you taking the kids some of the year, her taking the kids at other parts of the year.
When I look at my friends who have had their parents divorce, they're really doing alright as adults, and they were okay as kids too. It's sad when your parents separate, but it's probably better the earlier it happens. It's so much worse to have to listen to your parents fight all the time, for them to take out their frustrations with each other on their kids, for them to show their kids how unreasonable adults can be with each other. And it teaches kids to tolerate that kind of stuff, to think that it is normal to be controlling or to be controlled, or to always have to be getting after someone who is not taking responsibility or being fair, who is not sitting down and having a real conversation. I feel truly jealous of people whose parents knew it was better to separate. Unless it's economically infeasible, don't rule it out.
But as everyone has said, do try to turn a light on yourself and think about if there is something to the criticism you're receiving.
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TLADT24920 Posts
I want to echo what Tal and Trainrunnef posted. If you go through with the divorce, going back isn't an option. Give this a lot of thought and look at it from her perspective. 3-4 hours a day is a lot of time gaming after all. Make sure not to have regrets once you make the final decision. Good luck!
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Oh, boy, if I was in your shoes, I would just leave the wife and take the utmost care for the little ones and for myself. Even if she's otherwise a fine lady, if you are so uncomfortable like you seem to be, it is in my opinion wrong to say with her on grounds of some alleged affection of the past you have had. If you feel the relationship with this particular woman is played out, it is madness to stay with her. End it and the sooner - the better.
It is also my opinion that the children's growing up with separated parents but still with parents on reasonable terms is way better than keeping some charade of a family with constant frustration and snappy exchanges and tension. So I say - go ahead, gain some freedom in your life. It will be better for everyone involved and most of all - for your children.
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On October 13 2019 18:47 JoinTheRain wrote:
Oh, boy, if I was in your shoes, I would just leave the wife and take the utmost care for the little ones and for myself. Even if she's otherwise a fine lady, if you are so uncomfortable like you seem to be, it is in my opinion wrong to say with her on grounds of some alleged affection of the past you have had. If you feel the relationship with this particular woman is played out, it is madness to stay with her. End it and the sooner - the better.
It is also my opinion that the children's growing up with separated parents but still with parents on reasonable terms is way better than keeping some charade of a family with constant frustration and snappy exchanges and tension. So I say - go ahead, gain some freedom in your life. It will be better for everyone involved and most of all - for your children.
very well said.
Just to give an update. my wife became very cold she even said to me today that if i wanna talk to her i should go through our lawyer. so yeah we are now trying to end things in a civil way but dunno how it will go, the only thing i know is that we are done and moving on.
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Thanks for the update. I agree that at some point you just have to move on. It's good that you're in a spot where you and her can still be civil.
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We are not civil at the moment at all. She wants to destroy me. No kidding.
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EPT
