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Active: 3386 users

FSAs and credit cards are pretty exploitable

Blogs > KwarK
Post a Reply
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States44022 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-01-13 18:57:55
January 13 2016 18:43 GMT
#1
So this blog isn't a guide to shit because I'm running low on things that I actually know. Instead it's a thing that I did in the last week.

If you've read my earlier blogs you'll know that I manipulate my income pretty heavily to not pay taxes. One way of deferring income pretax is through a FSA which I was able to enroll in for 2016 in November last year. So I did that and that allowed me to lower my retirement contributions by the same amount as I was now making FSA contributions. This left my paycheck unchanged and my deferred pretax amount unchanged, although obviously instead of going 100% retirement it was now 80% retirement, 20% FSA. The FSA limit for 2016 is $2550.

In November I also signed up for an Amex Delta skymiles card with a signup bonus equivalent to a round trip from my new home in America back to the UK. The only catch was a $3000 spend on it.

I've been considering laser eye surgery for a while now so I got a few quotes for it around December and it came in around $2500 for both eyes which seems about normal for my prescription.

I also keep getting offers in the mail from Chase telling me to get a Slate card with a 0% balance transfer fee and 15 months no interest.


What I did
Last Monday I applied for the Chase Slate and was accepted. Last Friday I had my eyes lasered. I put them on the Amex which along with a little Christmas spending got me my $3000 spend. That'll give me a $1200 plane ticket to a friend's wedding in May. Last night I transferred the entire $3000 spend on the Amex to my brand new Chase Slate. I don't carry the card with me or plan to ever use it again, it has no annual fee and I set up automated payments on it. Today I applied to get the full $2550 FSA refund (remember I have yet to actually pay into this FSA) due to my qualifying healthcare cost of laser eyes.

The net result

Negatives
At some point in 15 months I'll have to pay off the Slate for $3000.
My retirement contributions will be lower by $2550 for this year.

Neutrals
My paycheck/pretax deferrals are unchanged. I have simply moved contributions from one pretax box to another.

Positives
Given an average US domestic growth of 7%/year the $3000 I'm not paying for 15 months is worth about $250. I got an interest free loan and was able to get my money in the market earlier because of it and investments + time = profit.
I now have fuckin' laser eyes.
I now have 60,000 skymiles with Delta and therefore can go to my friend's wedding. +$1000 or so there ($1200 plane ticket for $197.50 fee).
I get a $2550 cash reimbursement for my laser eyes. They're taking pretax deductions of $106.25 out of my paycheck twice a month for the year but I'm able to cash out a FSA I haven't yet funded which means I get all 24 of those $106.25, of which I've earned precisely 1, right now. That $2550 is tax free.



Conclusion
Rather than fucking around with the financing options the laser eye place was offering (6 months interest free, 12 months lots of interest, 24 months insane interest) I managed to get myself 15 months interest free plus an interest free, tax free cash advance of $2550 on my laser eyes. And they threw in a free $1000 plane ticket. Pretty good terms imo.

*
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
ThomasjServo
Profile Blog Joined May 2012
15244 Posts
January 13 2016 19:00 GMT
#2
So it was 2 cc's you applied for in one go with a small ding to the credit score for the average age of account then. Interesting, I like that AMEX card though, I'm hoping to get a medallion this year and take a trip with the lady free of charge.
Carnivorous Sheep
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Baa?21244 Posts
January 13 2016 19:02 GMT
#3
>Given an average US domestic growth of 7%/year the $3000 I'm not paying for 15 months is worth about $250.

This part seems unlikely to work out though given the timing, at least speaking in January 2016 and looking forward.
TranslatorBaa!
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States44022 Posts
January 13 2016 19:03 GMT
#4
If you're not planning on getting a mortgage or a car loan or something like that any time soon the credit score is a tool with no value beyond what it can get you. Hoarding it has no value if you never plan to spend it. Inquiries drop off and average age of account is irrelevant (the Delta card is getting closed after I come back from the wedding and will disappear from the AAoA).
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States44022 Posts
January 13 2016 19:05 GMT
#5
On January 14 2016 04:02 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
>Given an average US domestic growth of 7%/year the $3000 I'm not paying for 15 months is worth about $250.

This part seems unlikely to work out though given the timing, at least speaking in January 2016 and looking forward.

I'm not qualified to speculate on timing. And to be honest nor is anyone else unless they can actually back it up with consistently right predictions which nobody anywhere can.

However what I can do is buy with my $2550 at the current -10% dip and pay it back with future income. I would have happily bought at the old prices, now I can buy 11% more. In that regard it's looking pretty fucking awesome.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
Carnivorous Sheep
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Baa?21244 Posts
January 13 2016 19:57 GMT
#6
On January 14 2016 04:05 KwarK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 14 2016 04:02 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
>Given an average US domestic growth of 7%/year the $3000 I'm not paying for 15 months is worth about $250.

This part seems unlikely to work out though given the timing, at least speaking in January 2016 and looking forward.

I'm not qualified to speculate on timing. And to be honest nor is anyone else unless they can actually back it up with consistently right predictions which nobody anywhere can.

However what I can do is buy with my $2550 at the current -10% dip and pay it back with future income. I would have happily bought at the old prices, now I can buy 11% more. In that regard it's looking pretty fucking awesome.


It's difficult to say with certainty what the market will do in any given year or other comparable short period, so if you wanted to be conservative you shouldn't include the $250 from 7% growth in your analysis. The period in question is only 15 months and not, say, 10 years, in which case assuming 7%/year is much safer.
TranslatorBaa!
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States44022 Posts
January 13 2016 20:09 GMT
#7
Sure, I'm not banking on it. But it still exists, it's in the EV. The interest free loan of $3000 is plus ev, even if there is variance.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
Cauld
Profile Joined February 2010
United States350 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-01-13 20:17:31
January 13 2016 20:16 GMT
#8
I also don't get where the 7% comes from. Is it based on the historical rate of return for US equities? Nice moves overall though. Planning your expenses and taking advantage of tax deductions like you did is always smart.
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States44022 Posts
January 13 2016 20:19 GMT
#9
On January 14 2016 05:16 Cauld wrote:
I also don't get where the 7% comes from. Is it based on the historical rate of return for US equities? Nice moves overall though. Planning your expenses and taking advantage of tax deductions like you did is always smart.

Yes. Obviously some years it's greater than 7 and others it'll be less than 7 but historically 7 is as good a number as you'll get for a ballpark figure. However even if we disregard investment, inflation exists. I'd rather pay it off in future money than now money.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
Cauld
Profile Joined February 2010
United States350 Posts
January 13 2016 20:31 GMT
#10
On January 14 2016 05:19 KwarK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 14 2016 05:16 Cauld wrote:
I also don't get where the 7% comes from. Is it based on the historical rate of return for US equities? Nice moves overall though. Planning your expenses and taking advantage of tax deductions like you did is always smart.

Yes. Obviously some years it's greater than 7 and others it'll be less than 7 but historically 7 is as good a number as you'll get for a ballpark figure. However even if we disregard investment, inflation exists. I'd rather pay it off in future money than now money.


Yeah, that's true. How did the Lasik itself go?
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States44022 Posts
January 13 2016 20:35 GMT
#11
On January 14 2016 05:31 Cauld wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 14 2016 05:19 KwarK wrote:
On January 14 2016 05:16 Cauld wrote:
I also don't get where the 7% comes from. Is it based on the historical rate of return for US equities? Nice moves overall though. Planning your expenses and taking advantage of tax deductions like you did is always smart.

Yes. Obviously some years it's greater than 7 and others it'll be less than 7 but historically 7 is as good a number as you'll get for a ballpark figure. However even if we disregard investment, inflation exists. I'd rather pay it off in future money than now money.


Yeah, that's true. How did the Lasik itself go?

30s on each eye. Entire procedure under 5 minutes. I was worried about injections etc but they don't bother trying to stop your eye moving, the laser just tracks it so you can move all you want. There was a pressure cup over each eye for about 30s before it which was crazy uncomfortable but mainly because your eye just isn't used to having stuff touching it. I freaked out a little bit over that but it wasn't painful as such, it was just my brain fucking with me. I can see now but the eye drops are a hassle.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
Just_a_Moth
Profile Joined March 2012
Canada1968 Posts
January 14 2016 02:37 GMT
#12
Are the eye drops just to recover from the surgery, or are they a permanent thing?
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States44022 Posts
January 14 2016 05:08 GMT
#13
Just recovery.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
FFGenerations
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
7088 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-01-16 10:30:19
January 16 2016 09:39 GMT
#14
this week i learnt that if u ever give any company your card details they are able to charge you for any amount at any time and there is no way to block the charge (even if you know ahead of time that they may perform it) other than to close your account with the bank

also i learnt that u shud always take out maximum insurance protection cover because in the unlikely event that you damage something you will be hit for £1000s because "they can"
Cool BW Music Vid - youtube.com/watch?v=W54nlqJ-Nx8 ~~~~~ ᕤ OYSTERS ᕤ CLAMS ᕤ AND ᕤ CUCKOLDS ᕤ ~~~~~~ ༼ ᕤ◕◡◕ ༽ᕤ PUNCH HIM ༼ ᕤ◕◡◕ ༽ᕤ
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States44022 Posts
January 16 2016 21:11 GMT
#15
On January 16 2016 18:39 FFGenerations wrote:
this week i learnt that if u ever give any company your card details they are able to charge you for any amount at any time and there is no way to block the charge (even if you know ahead of time that they may perform it) other than to close your account with the bank

also i learnt that u shud always take out maximum insurance protection cover because in the unlikely event that you damage something you will be hit for £1000s because "they can"

Disagree on both counts. Firstly, yes, people with your card information have the ability to run your card. That's the system working as intended. However people without your permission do not have the authority to run your card. They need both for it to be a legal transaction, having just the first will go through (because the bank cannot immediately tell the difference) but it'll be a fraudulent transaction. Call the bank, tell them it's fraud, they'll reverse it. At that point the company that issued the charge will have to prove they had your explicit permission to charge you.

Most good credit cards come with insurance on consumer goods and rental cars paid for through the card. You should never get insurance from the seller of something, they are standing in front of you already and are therefore not exposed to market forces or rival quotes. Hertz are not going to give you a reasonable quote on car insurance that accurately represents your risk and liability, they are going to assume they are giving you the only quote you'll have and then they'll fuck you with that. If you want insurance, get it through an insurer. But credit cards are pretty good for the kind of things you'll routinely get insurance protection on from the seller.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
FFGenerations
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
7088 Posts
January 17 2016 01:58 GMT
#16
what happened was i got a rental car then reversed it into a pole and they said the bill was £2000+ and that my excess is £1000 plus a fee and that they will charge my card this within the next 7 days (unless i phone to set up a payment) . they had my card details from when i took out the hire car.

i was wondering if i should just fuck them and block them and change address but it sounded like the only way to do that was to close my bank account (this is a debit card, i dont have a credit card) . but i cant close my debit account because its at £-1400 and i'm not going to pay that off ever

i did go and ask in person today and a woman said if i claim my card as stolen then they will give me new card details - number and expiry date - so anyone with the old number won't be able to charge it. she said they can only continue to charge you if i gave them my actual bank account number and sort card (not card number) . so i think its a possibility for me to fuck them still (not saying that i'm going to)
Cool BW Music Vid - youtube.com/watch?v=W54nlqJ-Nx8 ~~~~~ ᕤ OYSTERS ᕤ CLAMS ᕤ AND ᕤ CUCKOLDS ᕤ ~~~~~~ ༼ ᕤ◕◡◕ ༽ᕤ PUNCH HIM ༼ ᕤ◕◡◕ ༽ᕤ
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States44022 Posts
January 17 2016 02:38 GMT
#17
Debit or credit? Credit, tell them that you'll have the damage independently assessed. Debit, you're kinda fucked. But this isn't a reason to buy insurance or whatever, this is a reason not to crash cars you don't own. You might as well advocate lottery tickets as financial advice if you get to choose which numbers you had after the draw. Check if your card has insurance built into it.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
FFGenerations
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
7088 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-01-17 03:28:27
January 17 2016 03:22 GMT
#18
yeah i only have a debit card and never damaged a car before so didn't think twice when they ask "what cover do u want".

then reversed into one of those lowdown poles that you cant see and turns out its damage worth more than what my other car cost to buy in full.

i'll probably pay £250 to stay within ethical boundaries but i don't really care too much past that, the world is shit enough with people shitting their lives down the drain for £20,000 cars left and right i don't think i'm gonna make it much shitter by not paying up. hell i could donate the other £750 to charity , now there's a twist

i'm guessing it makes my "credit rating" even worse than whatever it is now but when have i ever needed a credit rating? (anyway maybe it will block me from doing dumb shit like getting a hire car rofl).

also they might have my mom's address on file and pass it to debt collectors which would be annoying. i got my address updated to a new one but they still have the old one documented. not that i live at EITHER of those addresses but it would still be annoying. i guess i tell my mom to tell them that i was a tenant that moved out a year ago and said he was moving to X location that they also have on file , that would make sense.

you might be an expert on paying bills kwark but i'm surely the expert on NOT paying them!!
Cool BW Music Vid - youtube.com/watch?v=W54nlqJ-Nx8 ~~~~~ ᕤ OYSTERS ᕤ CLAMS ᕤ AND ᕤ CUCKOLDS ᕤ ~~~~~~ ༼ ᕤ◕◡◕ ༽ᕤ PUNCH HIM ༼ ᕤ◕◡◕ ༽ᕤ
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