• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 08:27
CEST 14:27
KST 21:27
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S Season 2 - RO4 & Finals Results (2025)2Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0TL Team Map Contest #5: Presented by Monster Energy4Code S RO8 Preview: herO, Zoun, Bunny, Classic7Code S RO8 Preview: Rogue, GuMiho, Solar, Maru3
Community News
Weekly Cups (June 9-15): herO doubles on GSL week0Firefly suspended by EWC, replaced by Lancer12Classic & herO RO8 Interviews: "I think it’s time to teach [Rogue] a lesson."2Rogue & GuMiho RO8 interviews: "Lifting that trophy would be a testament to all I’ve had to overcome over the years and how far I’ve come on this journey.8Code S RO8 Results + RO4 Bracket (2025 Season 2)14
StarCraft 2
General
Nexon wins bid to develop StarCraft IP content, distribute Overwatch mobile game Rain's Behind the Scenes Storytime Firefly suspended by EWC, replaced by Lancer How herO can make history in the Code S S2 finals Code S Season 2 - RO4 & Finals Results (2025)
Tourneys
RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series $3,500 WardiTV European League 2025 [GSL 2025] Code S: Season 2 - Semi Finals & Finals WardiTV Mondays Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers [G] Darkgrid Layout
Custom Maps
[UMS] Zillion Zerglings
External Content
Mutation # 478 Instant Karma Mutation # 477 Slow and Steady Mutation # 476 Charnel House Mutation # 475 Hard Target
Brood War
General
ASL20 Preliminary Maps BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion Recent recommended BW games FlaSh Witnesses SCV Pull Off the Impossible vs Shu
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL 2v2] ProLeague Season 3 - Friday 21:00 CET Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL20] ProLeague Bracket Stage - Day 4
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do. [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile Beyond All Reason What do you want from future RTS games?
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine UK Politics Mega-thread Echoes of Revolution and Separation Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Korean Music Discussion [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NHL Playoffs 2024 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
A Better Routine For Progame…
TrAiDoS
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Heero Yuy & the Tax…
KrillinFromwales
I was completely wrong ab…
jameswatts
Need Your Help/Advice
Glider
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 31532 users

Star Wars Reimagined

Blogs > Falling
Post a Reply
1 2 Next All
Falling
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada11343 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-12-20 23:22:30
December 22 2015 11:20 GMT
#1
Introduction

The Force Awakens has arrived, and I am filled with a mix of trepidation and hope- I will see it in the IMAX on Tuesday. Unfortunately, this new round of films has meant wiping out the old Expanded Universe canon. I understand why they did it, as although there are many gems, it was a deeply flawed series of books and would be a big mess to try and follow.

[image loading]
Missing this and the X-wing series are the true tragedies... everything else could keep.

But it got me thinking... so much has been talked about the Prequels' flaws. And some have even suggest how to tinker with the existing Prequel premises to make better stories (Red Letter Media, but Belated Media especially).
However, what if, as a thought experiment, we started over with the prequels as they are doing with Episode VII. Give it a fresh start and re-examine the Original Trilogy and project backwards. What sort of universe would we get? What is the backstory and connections that the Originals naturally suggest?

I think there are a lot of ideas from the Prequels that can be salvaged. However, when I went back to the Originals for the thought experiment, I found the two trilogies do not match very well, even though by the end of Revenge, we have Luke on Tatooine, Leia on Alderaan, Anakin as Darth Vader, etc.

As a baseline, I would like to suggest good prequels ought to expand upon our knowledge of the original story. It is not simply a matter of connecting the dots- where the original hints at a giant backstory, the prequel creates that depth and hints at even more backstory. Connect the dot prequels, while adequate, can kill the power of the original if the suggested depth is revealed to be merely a thin veneer. Furthermore, where there are potential contradictions in the originals, subsequent additions to the series ought to iron out the contradictions to make them work.

Hopefully you find this “close reading” of the Original Trilogy interesting as I take the small hints given in the Original as the facts to extrapolate backwards, and find interesting story ideas. This is not an attempt to create and outline the three movies, but rather to develop the world that Original suggest that the story would be embedded within. I will also take some ideas from the Prequels that I think have a lot of potential in the Reimagined Star Wars Prequels.

Background Worldbuilding: Position of the Jedi

Here we immediately run into troubles based on how the Jedi are talked about in the Original. Listen how dismissive people are of the Force in A New Hope:
“Don't try to frighten us with your sorcerer's ways, Lord Vader. Your sad devotion to that ancient religion has not helped you conjure
up the stolen data tapes, or given you clairvoyance enough to find the Rebel's hidden base...”
Motti.
[image loading]
Bad memory and misplaced confidence is strong with this one, but mostly a bad memory

Or Han Solo's attitude towards the Force:
“Hokey religions and ancient weapons... Kid, I've flown from one side of this galaxy to the other. I've seen a lot of strange stuff, but I've never seen anything to make me believe there's one all-powerful force controlling everything. There's no mystical energy field that controls my destiny.”


[image loading]
They were only the police force during my teen years and were the generals of the clone armies... but never mind that. Hokey religion 'n stuff.

Even if they aren't spoken of dismissively, they are spoken about as though they are the ancient past. Tarkin says,
“The Jedi are extinct, their fire has gone out of the universe. You, my friend, are all that's left of their religion.”


What we get from this is the Force is not very well known, and memories of the Jedi are already faded. The Prequels portray the Jedi as a powerful elite cadre, with direct connections to and influence in the central government. The Jedi are the army, the police force, and the FBI (investigators), and yet somehow the entire galaxy forgets about them 18 years later? There isn't simply enough time, particularly given their central role in the Clone Wars.

I understand the desire to show the Jedi at their height, but it makes more sense that the Jedi's political power has already waned. It seems more likely, that the Jedi have fallen out of political favour over the years, but still negotiate/ keep the peace in the backwater worlds. I rather like the idea that there is a faction trying to regain influence, the men of action, looking to re-engage (the Mace Windu faction), whereas the Yoda faction see answers in a further withdrawal and meditation. Significant splits within the Jedi and with a great number operating independently and with many splinter groups, some quite extreme shows very clearly the Jedi are in decline. Most importantly, the Jedi must be in a position where they can be forgotten about after two decades years.

Yoda in particular does not work well as political power broker or general of armies. Even ignoring acrobatic Yoda of the Prequels, he is really a very inconsistent character from Originals to Prequels.
“Wars do not make one great” “Excitement. Adventure. Heh. A Jedi craves not these things.”
But apparently they do crave political power... Yoda needs to stay a mystic, perhaps on a mountain, where the best of the best go to train. The most wise, the most patient learn the true power of the Force- Obi Wan becomes one of Yoda's disciples, but Anakin either does not have the patience and Yoda refuses to teach him (leading to humiliation and flared up pride because Anakin is aware of his power) or else Anakin does not complete his training (this was a major sticking point for Yoda when considering training Luke) and runs off, likely because of Padme.

[image loading]
On Mount Yoda lives the Mystic

A maverick like Qui Gon still works- one that doesn't fit easily in either Mace's camp (who is wise, but tends towards aggression, but is leading a lot of hot-headed Jedi) or Yoda's camp. However, if push came to shove, he would likely side with Yoda. The death of Qui Gon, could really shake the Council up, giving strength to Windu's faction over the Yoda aligned faction.

[image loading]
Hard to go wrong with Neeson... but a minor role would suffice

And then some Jedi that are frustrated with the entire Jedi Order and leave for politics itself... I really like the idea that Count Dooku was not a Sith, but really and truly believed that the Republic had become too corrupt and that the Jedi Order was either too passive or not gaining influence fast enough. He quit the Jedi Order and formed the Separatist movement with good intentions and was actually a very charismatic leader.

[image loading]
A non-Sith Dooku is a far more interesting character

The schools of thought give a lot of room for Anakin Skywalker to struggle with a fractious Order, making him all the more vulnerable to another way. Both Kenobi and Skywalker tend towards the aggressive methods of Mace... who might even hover on the edge of the Dark Side, but eventually Kenobi is convinced of Yoda's way.

The Clone Wars

The Clone Wars actually meaning that the Republic has the clones, presents a problem with how the story is told as it doesn't match the Originals very well. In the Originals, the Clone Wars is an old war, vaguely hinted at, but with little repercussions for contemporary considerations- there is no talk of Stormtroopers being clones, nor do the Rebels concern themselves with blowing up cloning facilities to stop an endless production clones that would be presumably continuing to this day. (And no, I don't consider whatever the TV show to be of much relevance because the theatrical films ought to stand more or less on their own.)

Furthermore, naming conventions would suggest the clones in the Clone Wars would be on the other side, or at minimum on both sides. Korean War, Vietnam War, Napoleonic War, Boer War are all named by the English-speaking side, referring to either where their opponents lived or to their opponents specifically. The other two naming conventions give both (Anglo-Boer War, Sino-Russo War) or generically sums up in World Wars. This isn't a direct conflict, but rather a suggested direction, which in extrapolating backwards, is what the sort of thing I am looking for. It neatly solves the problem “what happened to the cloning machines” (they were destroyed when they were defeated by the Republic/ Empire). I am also biased because I like the EU's older idea of the Republic facing down the clone masters.

If the series begins in the middle of an ongoing Clone Wars or at least the start of it in Episode I, I think there is far more story fodder than taxation and blockades. It also shows very explicitly how the Republic is blowing a part... clone masters threatening on one front, while other start systems break away from the Republic to join Dooku's Separatist movement. The Separatists can keep droid armies, but also have a significant number of aliens in their combined military. It gives the Separatists a good distinction and links very well with the distrust of droids in the Originals.

[image loading]
Droid armies are fine... if they are less chatty and more dangerous

Importantly, neither of these sides are run by Palpatine/ Sidious. Lucas rightly wanted to show Palpatine as a mastermind, but to be a mastermind, it is unnecessary to run both sides of the chessboard. He does not need to be in control of every major event in the galaxy. The grander and more all encompassing Sidious' plan was, the smaller the galaxy felt. It felt small because no one else in the entire galaxy had any agency. Sidious was the only one that wanted anything, planned anything, directed anything (the worst of this Xanatos Gambit is in Force Unleashed, where it turned out even the Rebel Alliance could not get started without the help of Palpatine ). Palpatine does not need to be a puppet master in every plot in every corner of the galaxy to be seen as cunning... he needs to be a combination of mastermind and an incredible opportunist. Other people also have plans, but he is the best at taking those plans and corrupting them for his own use.

Projecting backwards from the Originals, we have the humans entirely in power and all aliens completely out of power in the Empire. An interesting explanation for this is if the aliens had gathered their sector fleets (we can keep the idea that the Republic has no unified army/fleet) to fight against the clones. Whereas the more numerous human systems stockpiled their fleets in defence of the clones, but refused to assist on the frontlines. Thus, the aliens' (and likely Jedi) were weakened to the verge of defeat against the clones (and Separatists) until Palpatine and the horded human fleets come in to rescue the Republic- the past failures are blamed on the aliens (and maybe a little on the Jedi... for starting the Separatist movement). The humans' victories are lauded. In addition the humans are the only ones with a giant fleet at the end of the war/ whenever the Empire comes into being.

The Owen Lars Connection

One of the most intriguing missed opportunities is the character of Owen Lars: what does he actually know? From the Prequels, we would say not very much. Anakin appears and disappears like a whirlwind, stopping only long enough to return his mother's dead body and have a short funeral. This minimally meets the requirements of linking the Prequels to the Originals, but so much more is suggested in the Originals.

[image loading]
IV Owen wanted nothing to do with Obi Wan

Consider this intriguing dialogue piece:
Owen: That wizard's just a crazy old man. Tomorrow I want you to take that R2 unit into Anchorhead and have its memory erased. That'll be the end of it. It belongs to us now.
Luke: But what if this Obi-Wan comes looking for him
Owen: He won't, I don't think he exists anymore. He died about the same time as your father.
Luke: He knew my father?
Owen: I told you to forget it. Your only concern is to prepare the droids for tomorrow. In the morning I want them on the south ridge working out those condensers.

Now, it could be argued that Owen is simply all business and wants Luke to shut up and just do his work. But there's emotion behind that and hints that he knows far more than the Prequels show. Owen genuinely does not wish to talk about Obi Wan because he wants nothing to do with the hermit. There's a knowing look passed between Owen and Beru when Luke first mentions the hermits name that suggests a 'here it finally comes.' And yet he denies knowing Obi Wan and immediately follows up with wanting to have the memory erased, thus quickly purging the unwanted reminders of Obi Wan. (The implication is that he is lying to stop further inquiries.) Everything in the conversation implies that Owen wants the topic of Obi Wan to be dropped, but Luke obliviously presses on. Why the reticence?

[image loading]
So much potential backstory

Following talks about the Academy we get this:

Aunt Beru: Luke's just not a farmer, Owen. He has too much of his father in him.
Owen: That's what I'm afraid of.


This piece is rich with implied backstory, but we get nothing from the Prequels. Beru knew so little that the Prequels make Beru's comment unwarranted in IV.

[image loading]
She sure is basing a lot on one introduction and a funeral... because she sure wasn't twinkling her eyes, thinking about how that one time Anakin slaughtered all those Sand People.

The final piece to extrapolate from is Obi Wan talking about Owen Lars:
Luke: No, my father didn't fight in the wars. He was a navigator on a spice freighter.
Ben: That's what your uncle told you. He didn't hold with your father's ideal. Thought he should have stayed here and not gotten involved.


And

BEN: I have something here for you. Your father wanted you to have this when you were old enough, but your uncle wouldn't allow it. He feared you might follow old Obi-Wan on some damned-fool idealistic crusade like your father did.


So this is difficult because the most natural reading is that both Owen and Anakin comes from Tatooine, but that leaves us with Luke being hidden on his father's home planet- an Original problem caused when Lucas decided to combine the characters of Anakin and Vader for Episode V. Part of a prequel's job (I think) is to massage these facts to make them fit even better, making the internal logic work better.

The first question is whether they truly are Luke's uncle and aunt, and if so who is the connection. Lars and Skywalker makes it difficult for Owen and Anakin to be brothers without fake names, but Beru doesn't suggest much of a connection with Anakin's past. I would likely go with either Owen and Anakin as brothers or else an old theory: Kenobi and Owen Lars are brothers (or half brothers or Lars changed his name when he goes to ground.)

Then, have Owen and Anakin actual spice traders at the beginning of the series, Obi Wan hears of this hot shot pilot in the Outer Rim from his estranged brother or half-brother, who works as a navigator or mechanic on the same ship. Finding Anakin as a cocky hot shot pilot, whom Obi Wan recruits into the Jedi in the middle (or the beginning) of the Clone Wars, allows the different subplots to start so much quicker. Particularly the romance can start quicker, which in Episode I was wasted time as in Episode II, Lucas basically had to reboot the relationship. If Obi Wan and Anakin drag a reluctant Owen into the Clone Wars, then you have a gruffer Sam Gamgee type character- the trio's conscience, and the one who grows disillusioned first and recognizes the dangerous changes in Anakin first. This allows for a confrontation between Owen and Obi Wan, where Obi Wan refuses to see the change in Anakin.

[image loading]
An idealistic crusade (at least at the beginning) that Owen would not join

The final break would come when the Republic declares war on the Separatists- a campaign near Tatooine bringing the trio on to Tatooine- Anakin in particular is idealistic about keeping the Republic together. Owen was always reluctant, but believes war against the Separatists is too much. He sees Obi Wan as intractable, but tells Anakin he should stay here and not get involved. The last time they see him is alone in one of the Tatooine spaceports with Beru (not sure when those two should meet, but she needs enough contact with Anakin to warrant her conversation in Episode IV.)

As a side note, having Owen with some military experience works well enough with a deleted scene where Biggs says,
“Come on Luke, your uncle could hold off a whole colony of sand people with one blaster.”
A legitimate and natural interpretation of this is that Owen is simply a tough son of a gun, but Clone Wars experience fits just as well.

Anakin and Obi Wan

Jumping straight to the Clone Wars gives lots of space to SHOW the tense relationship between the two. I think it's necessary to show their closeness in order to show a bit of Obi Wan's blindness and a bit of his hubris regarding Anakin. In addition, the viewer needs to see what is lost to really warrant any sort of “you were like my brother” lines.

[image loading]
Ewan really was a strong point in the Prequels

Obi Wan:
“When I first knew him, your father was already a great pilot. But I was amazed how
strongly the Force was with him. I took it upon myself to train him as a Jedi. I thought that I could instruct him just as well as Yoda. I was wrong. My pride has had terrible consequences for the galaxy.”


Owen is a perfect candidate for the one that sounds the first unheeded warning bell, particularly as there is clearly some history between Owen and Obi Wan based on Episode IV. But we really need Obi Wan as the Jedi who discovers Anakin's talent.

Princess Leia or Daddy's Princess?

One thing that the Prequels never properly established is why Leia is a princess. The closest we get is that her mother was voted a 'queen' for a bit. But as Leia is supposed to be hiding in plain sight, it makes little sense give her real mother's former title (that was also temporary and not inheritable)... unless she's just daddy's princess.

[image loading]
The dots did not connect on this one, except in the most disappointingly character undermining way possible

But it would be fine if Bail Organa was part of an old aristocracy that still maintains power in Alderaan's democracy- that there are a number of great houses in existence, similar to Dune series- Palpatine and Tarkin could easily come from other old houses. Having undemocratic power (the great houses) defend democracy is actually an interesting tension.

Bail Organa and Obi Wan


[image loading]
Bail liked to tell big stories to little Leia about how HE was really the leader, and definitely NOT a tag along to the Jedi.

“General Kenobi, years ago you served my father in the Clone Wars.”

This idea would need to be fleshed out- Prequel Organa served the Jedi, not the other way around. (He wasn't much more than a glorified taxi driver.) Perhaps Organa is a George C Marshall or Dwight Eisenhower during the Clone Wars, which allows Kenobi to serve under him. Then, when war is declared against the Separatists he resigns to become the leader of the pacifist moderate reformers in the Senate, refusing to take part in the Separatist War. Like the EU's idea- Alderaan could disarm in protest of the war with the Separatists as well protesting the increasingly apparent power grab by the unified human fleet. (It's interesting that the cause of Alderaan being peaceful was never brought up in the Prequels.)

Romance: A Decent Prequel Idea

Beyond extrapolation, I actually quite like the idea that Anakin falls for a senator in the Galactic Senate. One thing that I never really bought was that attachment was a such a bad thing for Jedi- likely because my worldview is not that of a Buddhist monk. If it actually is the case that attachment is bad for the Jedi in this fictional universe, the prequels needed to SHOW this- outside a Buddhist perspective, it is a rather counter-intuitive idea, so the internal logic needs to be established with a significant example (or else show that the Council's rules are out to lunch.) Count Dooku would be a great candidate for a Jedi who became too concerned with worldly affairs because of a woman. If the woman he marries is also a politician, the clear parallel to Anakin is very easily established- the big warning sign.

[image loading]
A radical and a gadfly

But I think it'd be rather interesting to skip the whole queen of Naboo thing and go straight to have Padme as a rising star in the Senate. Have her and Mon Mothma as two young radical reformer senators- perhaps Padme as the orator- the one that can distill the big picture ideas and Mon Mothma as the details and behind the scenes planning politician. When they are radical reformers, Anakin takes notice of the firebrand Padme. As they slowly rise the ranks in their respective worlds, they become more and more involved with each other, despite both being forbidden to do so. (The Senate is suspicious of the Jedi regaining political power (particularly because of Mace Windu and that Kenobi and Skywalker tend to subscribe to Windu's philosophy at the beginning) and so could also frown on a Senator becoming close to a Jedi.)

[image loading]
Partner in crime

It strikes me then, that Bail Organa brings the two firebrands and their faction into the moderate reformer fold, but Padme quickly becomes the leader of the moderate reformers: fighting to clean up the power of the bureaucrats, fighting to prevent consolidation of power during the Clone Wars, and fighting to avoid war with the Separatists. This might be too much politics for Star Wars, but if part of the prequels is the rise of the Empire, I think it is a great battleground for Padme (who really has little do in Episode II and III- she is very quickly sidelined from her role as opposition leader.) I'd like to see her actually in charge of her faction, making moves.

[image loading]
Leader of Opposition

In that case, I think making Tarkin her opposite number in the Senate, would be great. He also could be a younger politician and a rising star. Palpatine can continue to give lip service to wanting to maintain democracy and clean out the corrupt bureaucracy (he voices the reformer rhetoric, while consolidating power behind the scenes.) Meanwhile, Tarkin is the leader of Palpatine's faction and vocally and openly defends the need to consolidate power for the defence of the Republic from the clonemasters and the Separatists. This lends itself very well to an inherent internal tension in Anakin while courting Padme. He loves Tarkin's ideas, but he loves Padme, who is actively working against Tarkin. There's a tiny sense of it in Episode II, but giving more space to flesh it that tension is a very interesting route. It also gives reason for Tarkin's prominence in IV. He was the Emperor's unofficial attack dog on the Senate floor for years and years.

[image loading]
The government's rising star: defender of militarism and unified state power.

The attempted assassination is also great to bring Anakin and Padme together... the problem in the actual Prequels was that the assassination plot gets dropped, giving them exactly nothing to do or plan.

If their romance is developed faster (no reboot in Episode II- romantic tensions already existing in the first) then I suspect she could leave him faster- that after Owen, she also recognizes the change in Anakin before Obi Wan, who is still holding out. “Obi Wan once believed as you did.” In that case, she leaves when she is pregnant, but before Anakin knows so there is a less likely chance for him to hunt down his children.

I actually like the deleted scene idea that Padme begins confiding in Obi Wan her fears, but Anakin discovers this (or else is led part way there by Palpatine) and interprets it as unfaithfulness.

Sith vs Jedi: Seduction of the Dark Side

There are some ideas to play with regarding the fall of Anakin. Vader clearly had some anger issues, but Prequel Anakin tends to go from 0 to 100 and back down again. Starting him as a cocky pilot with a somewhat hot-temper is a great beginning point. But the more he gives into the Dark Side, I would think he is just barely containing his anger- he genuinely tries to reign it in, but he lives more and more on the edge, scaring himself, but finally his wife. (Think Sykes from the 1968 Oliver! film.)

[image loading]
Perpetually on the edge of exploding

His descent does need human and alien combatants. Clones and droids eliminate the prisoner dilemma in war and gives no emotional weight to hacking through droids like match wood. If the Separatists also have large alien armies, a clearer distinction can be made between Obi Wan's mercy and Anakin's loss of control, bordering on war crimes (pushing Owen away.)

A very visual distinction between the Jedi and the Sith that was lost between the Originals and the Prequels is the notion that Jedi ignite their lightsabers last. This may have been an unintentional distinction (we always assumed when Luke attacked first, he was doing it wrong- the Prequels killed that idea pretty handily as Jedi pretty much exclusively attack first- and it is never commented that something is wrong with this.) Intentional or not, it works powerfully with the value that Jedi defend, but are never the aggressors. Regaining the distinction, better shows a philosophical difference between Jedi and Sith and creates some interesting story ideas. Mace Windu's faction could be blurring the line, particularly as the war progresses. Palpatine suggests to Anakin that there are serious limitations to waiting for the enemy to attack first- a Jedi might be able to react to defend themselves, but what if the enemy attacks bystanders as an opening move? The two wars allows boots on the ground application of the differing philosophies as Anakin either grows to dislike the limitation or at least fails to see the difference between what Windu does and what the Dark Side does.

For that matter, Anakin needs to be shown the actual power of the Dark Side of the Force. Palpatine promises the ability to stop people from dying, but it wrings hollow to me as we have seen little of the Force that would suggest that is possible. Anakin certainly has no onscreen evidence that Palpatine knows what he is talking about. Anakin needs an experimental stage (likely in the war), where he fights opening himself up to the Dark Side gives him quick bursts of power.

For our extrapolation piece: Luke asks
“Is the dark side more powerful?”
Yoda: “No, no, no. Quicker, easier, more seductive.”


We need to see this onscreen- that Anakin increases his power in sudden leaps and bounds- this gives him more incentive to follow Palpatine further, and he might start using little Dark Side trick (ends justifying the means.) Also... I suspect Palpatine ought to be talking about the Dark Side as the natural shadow of the Force, the fullness of the Force, that the Jedi are purposefully limiting themselves to the entirety of the Force (hence the denial of all emotions and attachment- it would be fairly easy to argue that the Jedi's teachings are unnatural and wrongheaded.) “The Emperor will show you the true nature of the Force.” This needs to be one of the Emperor's lines of persuasion.

If both the film and Palpatine shows several failings of the Jedi, Anakins fall becomes all the more believable... the whole mind-influence thing that Qui Gon and many others are constantly trying, can't be too hard for Palpatine to twist around to seem a pretty evil action by the Jedi. Rogue Jedi elements make for some very easy scapegoats as well.

To actually get Anakin wanting to hand off his lightsaber to his future children, I think we need a scene close to when Anakin takes the final plunge to the Dark Side, where he opens up to Obi Wan- maybe a little fear on where he is heading, but then perhaps as a premonition regarding his own mortality, he asks that if he (Anakin) has children, but dies soon after, that his light saber be passed on... something to that effect.

[image loading]
Obi Wan's memory is REALLY quite poor... or he has really bought into the whole 'different point of view' thing as a great cover to tell the story however the hell he wants to.

The arrest of Palpatine by Windu that is interrupted by Anakin is perfectly serviceable though some adjustment is needed- Anakin really and truly seeing Mace Windu as a danger to the Republic, given that Windu wants to kill Palpatine on the spot. Again, a few more good intentions paving the road to hell is great for Anakin's story arc. Also- if there really are that many Jedi coming in to arrest Palpatine- why not have the Imperial Guards take out the red shirt Jedi, before Mace can take them out in turn. Else, we have zero examples of them being at all useful.

The Fall

The fight between Anakin and Obi Wan is iconic- it might be worth putting it at the end of the Second to free up space for Vader the “betrayer and killer of Jedi”... leave the children killing for Palpatine and his stormies. (Another terrible example of Anakin's 0 to 100 anger.)

The third would mostly focus on Obi Wan, Bail Organa, Yoda, etc surviving the true rise of the Empire and the mass wiping out of the Jedi (rather than a montage.) To make Obi Wan seem less of a tool- Obi Wan needs to defeat Anakin, and think he is dead, rather than leaving him for dead.

[image loading]
...and then left him for dead, neither tending to the wounds nor putting him out of his misery

If the volcano planet had a bunch of Sith minion types for some Sith ceremony creating Darth Vader from Anakin (rather than the underwhelming knighting). Then Obi Wan could interrupt the ritual, driving off the minions and leading to the final fight and disavowal- and burning, Anakin disappears from view, but before Obi Wan can investigate further, he is driven off by a wrath filled Palpatine- perhaps mass earthquakes or something (if it was previously established that Palpatine was arriving soon, perhaps being delayed by Yoda.) This would allow Anakin to appear dead, but allow Palpatine arrive in time and keep him alive with the Force until medical help can stabilize. Obi Wan can have Anakin's lightsaber and muse to himself, that he would keep Anakin's last wish before the Anakin he knew was no more. After this point, he would exclusively use 'Ben' as an alias as he tries to hide from the Jedi hunters. (Episode IV says he has heard the name of Obi Wan since “before you (Luke) were born.”)

Once Anakin is truly outfitted as Darth Vader, we would likely cease to get his interior perspective- he becomes the enigmatic man in the mask of the 4th film as he hunts down the scattered Jedi. Tarkin is appointed to a regional governor and begins working with Vader to hunt down the Jedi.

Alderaan and Leia's Memories


[image loading]
After the whole 'oops, I guess I trained a monster,' you're on a need to know basis.

Padme hides with Bail Organa on Alderaan and eventually marries him. This should likely be Yoda's plan and Yoda's plan alone. He gives Luke to Obi Wan to hide allowing some redemption. However, Yoda still does not wholly trust Obi Wan's judgement and keeps Leia as an ace up his sleeve, hiding her existence from even Obi Wan. (Presumably between V and VI Obi Wan finds out from Yoda as he seems to not know in V, but knows all about Leia in VI.) After searching, Obi Wan discovers that Owen has settled on Tatooine (taking on the name Lars?) Owen agrees to take Luke, but only on the condition that Obi Wan never returns.

On Alderaan, Padme hears her friend Mon Mothma has begun forming a Rebel Alliance with a Corellian Senator (I have a hard time abandoning the idea of Garm Bel Iblis from the EU.) But to really bring home the loss of Alderaan in IV, the Prequels should devote some time to Alderaan so we know what was lost- that is what good prequels can do.

It is then a turn-around. Bail has bought into non-interference and pacifism, while Padme tries to convince Bail to join the nascent rebellion. She lives in hiding until Leia is 3 or 4- this allows Leia to have her memory of her mother in Episode VI.

[image loading]
Turns out VI's Leia simply had false memories

Climax

It's hard to know what the set piece end for III would be if Anakin and Kenobi have already duked it out, but take the betrayal idea. It might be that the Jedi try to put together a last ditch attempt to overthrow the Emperor that is discovered by the Empire. A message is sent out by Darth Vader as Anakin Skywalker giving a meeting place (not a lot knew of Anakin's fall, and few if any know who this Darth Vader is.) Ben Kenobi hears of this, realizes it is a trap, but cannot arrive in time because of Imperial agents/ Jedi hunters. The final fights would go between the stalled Ben and Darth Vader springing the trap and destroying the Jedi. Then, Kenobi arriving too late (he can't fight Vader until IV.) This final betrayal is certainly when Obi Wan is convinced that Vader is “more machine than man.”

Alternatively, perhaps a large group of remaining Jedi join with Dooku as the only hope of overthrowing the Empire... but the betrayal and trap by Vader remains the same, only this time Dooku and the Separatists are knocked out in the same fell swoop.

It might be revealed that until people with Force potential begin using the Force, they will be impossible to detect, but if training begins, it might be like a beacon if the Sith are searching. (Cue Padme's death bed scene and Bail forming a rebel group.) Then Ben lands on Tatooine to try and give the light saber:

Your father wanted you to have this when you were old enough, but your uncle wouldn't allow it. He
feared you might follow old Obi-Wan on some damned-fool idealistic crusade like your father did.


However, when Kenobi tries to contact Luke, Owen drives him away with a blaster rifle, blaming Obi Wan for ever teaching Anakin about the Force, thus leading to Anakin's corruption. End with Kenobi beginning his hermitage to keep a watchful eye on Luke until the time comes.


Misc

C-3PO and R2D2 need only be introduced at the end of the third film. There is no reason to include them in the first two, except as connection to the Originals, but that can happen in the third- this frees up space for more new characters.

Assassins and Bounty Hunters

Theoretically, there could be a character called Jango Fett heading up the assassination plot against Padme. But it's not necessary to deal with Boba's origin story in the Prequels- he's a neat character in the Originals, but he can simply have an unremarkable ancestry and have some other bounty hunter with cool weapons for the Prequels. It would be interesting if the bounty hunters were picking off lone Jedi through out the galaxy long before Anakin is sent out to hunt down the Jedi. This could be an ongoing conversation whenever the Jedi meet- who else has disappeared.

It might be that Palpatine sends Anakin out for a similar sort of Jedi killing mission, but at the start only against a rogue element that are truly bad apples (again, showing the decline of the Jedi- but an easy first step for Anakin to following Palpatine.

Concluding Thoughts

Once again, brevity is not my strength. Perhaps my reverse engineer projections/ extrapolations were mildly interesting or at least got your own mind working at possibilities. One of the fun things with Secondary Worlds is wondering what came before, and I particularly enjoy when a Secondary World remains coherent after the story's own premises are tested against each other.

What do you think a Reimagined Star War prequels would look like based on what the Original Trilogy suggested?

Credit:
Belated Media got me thinking along the lines of rebooting the Prequels, but many ideas were refined from discussing with housemates eScapegoat100 and LordBryon.

****
Moderator"In Trump We Trust," says the Golden Goat of Mars Lago. Have faith and believe! Trump moves in mysterious ways. Like the wind he blows where he pleases...
Falling
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada11343 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-12-20 23:15:41
December 22 2015 11:44 GMT
#2
One thing I forgot when thinking about the hiding of Luke and Leia. When on Dagobah in Episode V Luke says,
"Still...there's something familiar about this place. I feel like...I don't know..."


From there, I initially thought Luke (and perhaps Leia) were hidden on Dagobah, else would Dagobah seem familiar? (Or perhaps he had dreams about it, but this is less satisfactory as we are not privy to his dreams.) This opens a problem of once they had hidden away Luke and maybe Leia on such a backwater world, why in the world would they bring them back out to Anakin's home world and an important Coreworld? However, I think a better reading naturally follows. Luke is clearly struggling to identify what he finds familiar. Not knowing, he vaguely grasps at the place "something familiar about this place." But this isn't sufficient and tries again "I feel like... I don't know..."

Here, we unfortunately do not know what he would have said next as he is interrupted by Luke and he snaps a reply:
YODA: Feel like what?
LUKE: (looking at the creature) Like we're being watched!


However, this challenge might actually be what he intended to say next because much later, Yoda says,
"This one a long time have I watched. All his life has he looked away... to the future, to the horizon."
I think this is the best reading: that Luke is suddenly recognizing that he is near the presence that has been watching for many years- the familiarity he feels is Yoda watching him from afar. We thus avoid the weird hiding in Dagobah and then hiding in plain sight issue.
Moderator"In Trump We Trust," says the Golden Goat of Mars Lago. Have faith and believe! Trump moves in mysterious ways. Like the wind he blows where he pleases...
ThunderJunk
Profile Joined December 2015
United States674 Posts
December 23 2015 03:18 GMT
#3
I wish they hired you to write the prequels. I hope you didn't blast yourself after seeing the new one lol.
I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.
Rathwirt
Profile Joined January 2011
United States42 Posts
December 23 2015 05:36 GMT
#4
So...what about Jar-Jar? Does he stay or does he go?

Nice write-up btw. 5/5.
LoneYoShi
Profile Blog Joined June 2014
France1348 Posts
December 23 2015 09:06 GMT
#5
Some really good ideas. It's a nice mental exercise. A futile one, as the movies are what they are, but a cool idea nonetheless. I got to say, I really like your ideas regarding the Jedis, Anakin's fall, the Separatists and all that conflict. I also like the idea of having Anakin's fall not in ep3, as this leaves more time to put everything in place afterwards.

Great post, thanks for sharing your ideas mate ! :-)
00Zarathustra
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
Bolivia419 Posts
December 23 2015 11:11 GMT
#6
5/5 I would definitely kickstart this movie. We just have to wait until George Lucas dies.
Zarathustra "You can't spell aNal_Rape without Nal_Ra"
boxerfred
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
Germany8360 Posts
December 23 2015 11:24 GMT
#7
I actually shared this on facebook :D
NoSoldier
Profile Joined March 2012
Germany84 Posts
December 23 2015 14:21 GMT
#8
I dont even... do you... what...#unnecessarypassion-... wow
If i only had a clue on how to have a clue... life could be sooo easy. :D
Falling
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada11343 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-12-23 20:40:14
December 23 2015 20:38 GMT
#9
On December 23 2015 14:36 Rathwirt wrote:
So...what about Jar-Jar? Does he stay or does he go?

Nice write-up btw. 5/5.

Jar Jar is just gone. I think he gets a worse rap than he ought to- he is a bit of a lightning rod for people trying to identify what they don't like about the prequels. However, he is completely unnecessary to Episode I's plot (and I would skip the Naboo-Federation plot anyways) and so he is nixed on that alone, but the silliness doesn't help his case.
Moderator"In Trump We Trust," says the Golden Goat of Mars Lago. Have faith and believe! Trump moves in mysterious ways. Like the wind he blows where he pleases...
RoyGBiv_13
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States1275 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-12-23 21:40:15
December 23 2015 21:37 GMT
#10
I sort of like the idea of kid-friendly silliness brought by the droids and Jar Jar in Episode I. In execution is where it failed. The droid's dialog humor fell mostly flat due to it happening amidst action where it has no place. Similarly out of place is Jar Jar's character in the storytelling.

But there should be some sort of comic character, as well as some silliness. In the originals, this role was filled by C3P0.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic
Falling
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada11343 Posts
December 23 2015 21:45 GMT
#11
Oh, I have no problem with comedy- the new Episode VII has lots of great comedy. And the bickering peasants of C3PO and R2D2 are great. That's why, to me, the fundamental problem with Jar Jar is he is an unnecessary character... if the Trade Federation didn't land on the opposite side of the planet from the city they intended to invade.
Moderator"In Trump We Trust," says the Golden Goat of Mars Lago. Have faith and believe! Trump moves in mysterious ways. Like the wind he blows where he pleases...
Edpayasugo
Profile Joined April 2013
United Kingdom2213 Posts
December 23 2015 21:48 GMT
#12
I like a lot of these ideas, and the depth of thought behind them.
FlaSh MMA INnoVation FanTaSy MKP TY Ryung | soO Dark Rogue | HuK PartinG Stork State
Wintex
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Norway16838 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-12-24 00:25:33
December 24 2015 00:25 GMT
#13
I honestly like the prequels more than this idea.

I find the trilogies to work very well together, considering the way they are composed and put together.

The fact that there was politics, in addition to finding the boy allows one to initiate the "points" which show that the sith have finally showed their faces, the chosen one has appeared, and that politics are dirty in space. The politics part allows one to understand relationships well between factions. Killing Darth Maul opened the spot for Dooku, which understood that he would be replaced, and tried to turn Anakin before the emperor did. This could have been more apparent.

The second movie showed that the republic was corrupt, etc, and that they had been blindsided totally with the creation of a clone war. They literally got a perfectly timed army for the first conflict on Geonosis, which was exceptionally fishy. The biggest gripe with the second movie was execution and the villains being boring. Dooku was written poorly, while he did shine in clone wars animated show, for example. Grievous could have been way better, but served his purpose. Dooku countered Obi-Wan's lightsaber style, while Anakin played right to his hands.

In the third movie:
Grievous was the perfect distraction for Obi-Wan, so Sidious could have Anakin for himself. Anakin, during a war, considering his attitude, would easily be frustrated with the avolition of the Jedi Council, which wasn't done badly, save for a few lines.

By the way: I also found that the "wtf is the force" shit more reasonable as the number of force sensitive beings wouldn't have to be so many that every living being had seen one. I agree it is weird tho, but it's easier to build a movie without overexplanation. Han probably thought it was mumbo jumbo, like a lot of others, while Obi-wan and Owen wanted to keep Luke from his destiny.

This doesn't echo the same way. They seem like 3 prequels rather than a connected hexalogy which was the point, in my opinion. They showed Initiation, escalation and payoff, and led to the new initiation, escalation and payoff in OT.

This way, I would say that for example: starting in the middle of a war is way to in-medias-res for a medium like a movie, and requires a lull in action after the first few scenes, which can lead to a disconnected movie. In addition, it would literally stride against the way Jedis were trained pre-purge, since they were usually taken out of their families at extremely small ages. One of Yoda's arguments was that Anakin was too old. It would also be like a tension-filled mirror (War contra peace-like times) of Luke, which could feel more cliche, as well as cheapen the thought that the samurai-like life takes a lifetime.

It's a good plan, but I think smaller changes to the prequel trilogy would work better. And I think taking more into consideration that clone wars animated show exists is better, since you see more sides of the characters and can flesh them out accordingly.

I also think that the Leia memory thing is just what she was told before, just like how Owen tried to make Luke his hoe.

I don't know, I am rambling.
The Bomber boy
Falling
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada11343 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-12-20 23:17:34
December 24 2015 01:30 GMT
#14
The second movie showed that the republic was corrupt, etc, and that they had been blindsided totally with the creation of a clone war.

In what way was the Republic shown to be corrupt? Every problem I can think of has its origin in Palpatine. Subtract what he is doing and you have a red tape institution, but everything is going along pretty fine.

They literally got a perfectly timed army for the first conflict on Geonosis, which was exceptionally fishy. The biggest gripe with the second movie was execution and the villains being boring. Dooku was written poorly, while he did shine in clone wars animated show, for example. Grievous could have been way better, but served his purpose. Dooku countered Obi-Wan's lightsaber style, while Anakin played right to his hands.

This is actually a really big problem in Episode II. I can't figure out why the Jedi would go along with Clone Army idea, except that they are Lawful Stupid and the plot compels them.
What they know
1) A clone army was created without their knowledge.
2) Someone was posing a Jedi Council member that made the order- the Jedi Council did NOT order that army. The clone masters was led to believe the the Jedi Master was still alive, but the Jedi Master could not have physically placed the order as he died earlier.
3) The clone masters are sympathetic to the Republic and likely would not have made the clone army for enemies of the Republic (ramping up the probability that the fellow who placed the order is an enemy of the Republic)
4) The clone masters' planet was deliberately erased from the Republic's archives, making it unlikely that the Republic would be the one's to find the army.
5) The clone's gene belongs to the bounty hunter who has been trying to kill the Leader of Opposition of the Senate... and currently lives on the planet with a son.
6) The bounty hunter doesn't even think he was hired by the Jedi Master, but instead someone called Tyrannous. Obi Wan knows this information and no alarm bells are rung??!!!
7) The bounty hunter tries to kill Obi Wan on Kamino. Seems like a Jedi friendly operation. (Although to be fair to Fett, Obi Wan, like all Prequel Jedi, attacks first. So much for aggression being of the Dark Side. So little coherency.)
8) "They are totally obedient. Taking any order without question." ...and they don't know who made the order and they still think it's a good idea to use these clones?
9) Last piece and should have shut down the program after one time test-drive on Geonosis: the bounty hunter, whose genes were used is a henchman of Count Dooku... another enemy of the Republic. I think the Kaminoans would be rather horrified of their mistake and actually agree to a halted program, maybe with some financial compensation.

How is the correct move not to halt the program and proceed with a massive investigation in order to figure out who is impersonating the Jedi and who does not want to be discovered by the Jedi, and to discover who is creating a totally obedient personal army in the name of the Republic without the Republic's knowledge? Based on all the information they know, actually using the army is the worst idea ever. Blithely using the clone army, no questions asked, is idiot plotting at its worst. And that's a major hinge of the entire clone wars- the internal story is incoherent never mind how it really does not connect to the Original Trilogy.

In media res is perfectly fine for films like Star Wars considering that is exactly how Episode IV started- in the middle of the Rebellion. It just saves a lot of build up time and leaves the viewer wanting to know more- exactly what Episode I does not do. How many significant questions are raised about what went on before Episode I? Not very many as the Republic seems pretty static pre-Sidious. Compared to all the intriguing hints in Episode IV with clone wars, Luke's father and his adventures with Obi Wan, the fall of Darth Vader, the rise of the Empire, the start of the Rebellion, etc, etc.
Moderator"In Trump We Trust," says the Golden Goat of Mars Lago. Have faith and believe! Trump moves in mysterious ways. Like the wind he blows where he pleases...
Wintex
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Norway16838 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-12-24 02:41:14
December 24 2015 02:40 GMT
#15
the replies are in the quote lol, sorry weird formatting.

On December 24 2015 10:30 Falling wrote:
Show nested quote +
The second movie showed that the republic was corrupt, etc, and that they had been blindsided totally with the creation of a clone war.

+ Show Spoiler +
In what way was the Republic shown to be corrupt? Every problem I can think of has its origin in Palpatine. Subtract what he is doing and you have a red tape institution, but everything is going along pretty fine.


---
The whole point of the story is about the trade federation maintaining a blockade on a Republic planet, and I find it quite easy to point out what Lucas meant with it. It is "kinda" explained that Valorum and a lot of other senators are downplaying the situation since they are getting bribed. I don't know what else could lead Senator Amidala to the decision that the vote of no confidence is the only option. This point might be just my weird view of it since this was what I got from politics in the Clone Wars animated show.

It kinda looks more like Palpatine is just nudging the two sides to conflict and presenting them with "viable" options which will reward him more greatly than they can imagine.
---

Show nested quote +
They literally got a perfectly timed army for the first conflict on Geonosis, which was exceptionally fishy. The biggest gripe with the second movie was execution and the villains being boring. Dooku was written poorly, while he did shine in clone wars animated show, for example. Grievous could have been way better, but served his purpose. Dooku countered Obi-Wan's lightsaber style, while Anakin played right to his hands.


+ Show Spoiler +
This is actually a really big problem in Episode II. I can't figure out why the Jedi would go along with Clone Army idea, except that they are Lawful Stupid and the plot compels them.
What they know
1) A clone army was created without their knowledge.
2) Someone was posing a Jedi Council member that made the order- the Jedi Council did NOT order that army. The clone masters was led to believe the the Jedi Master was still alive, but the Jedi Master could physically not placed the order as he died earlier.
3) The clone masters are sympathetic to the Republic and likely would not have made the clone army for enemies of the Republic (ramping up the probability that the fellow who placed the order is an enemy of the Republic)
4) The clone masters' planet was deliberately erased from the Republic's archives, making it unlikely that the Republic would be the one's to find the army.
5) The clone's gene belongs to the bounty hunter who has been trying to kill the Leader of Opposition of the Senate... and currently lives on the planet with a son.
6) The bounty hunter doesn't even think he was hired by the Jedi Master, but instead someone called Tyrannous. Obi Wan knows this information and no alarm bells are rung??!!!
7) The bounty hunter tries to kill Obi Wan on Kamino. Seems like a Jedi friendly operation. (Although to be fair to Fett, Obi Wan, like all Prequel Jedi, attacks first. So much for aggression being of the Dark Side. So little coherency.)
8) "They are totally obedient. Taking any order without question." ...and they don't know who made the order and they still think it's a good idea to use these clones?
9) Last piece and should have shut down the program after one time test-drive on Geonosis: the bounty hunter, whose genes were used is a henchman of Count Dooku... another enemy of the Republic. I think the Kaminoans would be rather horrified of their mistake and actually agree to a halted program, maybe with some financial compensation.

How is the correct move not to halt the program and proceed with a massive investigation in order to figure out who is impersonating the Jedi and who does not want to be discovered by the Jedi, and to discover who is creating a totally obedient personal army in the name of the Republic without the Republic's knowledge? Based on all the information they know, actually using the army is the worst idea ever. Blithely using the clone army, no questions asked, is idiot plotting at its worst. And that's a major hinge of the entire clone wars- the internal story is incoherent never mind how it really does not connect to the Original Trilogy.


---
The battle of geonosis is the first battle in the Clone Wars, and they would have been extremely hardpressed to counter the droid army which had been prepared. Palpatine wanted a war to start so he could take over when people were more unlikely to stop him, as well as the people being more alright with a leadership switch. Using a weapon once kind of unleashes pandoras box, and i think that was the biggest problem for Republic. After they had used them and seen the effectiveness, and gotten a read on the situation (since they would have lost without them on Geonosis), it got harder to not rely on them again. I think the Clone Wars were lost without them. The Jedi kinda lost their ground towards the end since their seat of power had made them forget how to uphold peace when it's not all politics.

One thing I can argue against their use of clones, is HOW THE HELL didn't they read some kind of order manual to find Order 66. Jesus christ. I am sure the Kaminoans would tell you if you asked for what actions they were programmed for. The Jedi literally just unwillingly accepted the use since it was easier than remembering how they did lead the republic to victory ages ago.
---

+ Show Spoiler +
In media res is perfectly fine for films like Star Wars considering that is exactly how Episode IV started- in the middle of the Rebellion. It just saves a lot of build up time and leaves the viewer wanting to know more- exactly what Episode I does not do. How many significant questions are raised about what went on before Episode I? Not very many as the Republic seems pretty static pre-Sidious. Compared to all the intriguing hints in Episode IV with clone wars, Luke's father and his adventures with Obi Wan, the fall of Darth Vader, the rise of the Empire, the start of the Rebellion, etc, etc.

---
I think the buildup time is exactly what was needed in an Episode I, though. It's not supposed to awaken questions about what happened before, as that was a time of lull, and this was where the story started to take shape. One is supposed to be explained abit about what made people react this way, and then carry on from there. It had been years since the Sith had been seen, the Republic had a shit ton of years of peace and more. This is what probably allowed the senate to stop upholding morally good actions, but allow for money and the Trade federation to boss around. The whole story, in one way, can also be interpreted as the fall of the complacent Jedi Order and how it was given a new hope through Luke, and Anakin's redemption. If you think of the ignorance part of the Jedi Code, it seems that they had forgotten that it could bite them in the ass.
---


I like your post and will say that my opinion might be weird, but it doesn't fit with my view of Star Wars, I guess. Discussion is nice though. thanks.
The Bomber boy
Hexe1
Profile Joined April 2015
18 Posts
December 24 2015 04:38 GMT
#16
I dont think theres enough pull really even with your changes. The prequels are so alien in nature to the originals. I think the politics would have to be even more dialed down.

The biggest focal point should be Anakin failing and Obiwan as well. If anyone redid the prequels they could play up the contrast between the good times and bad.

The prequels were so f*cking bland. Its like George r r martin made another asoiaf now and started with a more bloated A Feast For Crows
Falling
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Canada11343 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-12-24 05:59:57
December 24 2015 05:56 GMT
#17
On December 24 2015 11:40 Wintex wrote:

I like your post and will say that my opinion might be weird, but it doesn't fit with my view of Star Wars, I guess. Discussion is nice though. thanks.

For sure, I like hashing out this sort of thing as I'm always interested in what makes a story and if it isn't good, what made it not work?

---
The whole point of the story is about the trade federation maintaining a blockade on a Republic planet, and I find it quite easy to point out what Lucas meant with it. It is "kinda" explained that Valorum and a lot of other senators are downplaying the situation since they are getting bribed. I don't know what else could lead Senator Amidala to the decision that the vote of no confidence is the only option. This point might be just my weird view of it since this was what I got from politics in the Clone Wars animated show.

I guess there's a little bit about bureaucrats being in the pay of the Trade Federation. But my feeling was Amidala's no confidence had more to do with inaction- corruption or lack thereof was pretty incidental in her view. However, given how Palpatine runs absolutely everything in the galaxy, I imagine the corruption was also the result of his own planning. (In fact Wookepdia figures as much, but I have no idea what is canon anymore after the Great Canon Schism, but regardless little of it is in the films.) But what we do have is the bureaucrats are in the pay of the Trade Federation, the Trade Federation that Palpatine controls. So once again, the Republic is basically not corrupt, except when Palpatine makes it corrupt.


The battle of geonosis is the first battle in the Clone Wars, and they would have been extremely hardpressed to counter the droid army which had been prepared. Palpatine wanted a war to start so he could take over when people were more unlikely to stop him, as well as the people being more alright with a leadership switch. Using a weapon once kind of unleashes pandoras box, and i think that was the biggest problem for Republic. After they had used them and seen the effectiveness, and gotten a read on the situation (since they would have lost without them on Geonosis), it got harder to not rely on them again. I think the Clone Wars were lost without them. The Jedi kinda lost their ground towards the end since their seat of power had made them forget how to uphold peace when it's not all politics.

I get Palpatine's motivation to use the clone troopers. That's easy. It's the Jedi that make no sense as it really seems like these clone troopers would exactly the last army you would want to use. At least until they figured out who placed the order.

---
I think the buildup time is exactly what was needed in an Episode I, though. It's not supposed to awaken questions about what happened before, as that was a time of lull, and this was where the story started to take shape.

My thinking on this wasn't fully fleshed out, but it has a lot to do with what I think a prequel should do. Most of the time, I think there is a temptation to create a prequel and it shouldn't be done. A good Secondary World ought to make you feel like the world existed long before the particular story you are telling and will continue after the particular story ends. This gives a facsimile of realness in a fictional universe. Thus a good story will feel like there is an amazing story leading up to that story... but usually it's better to leave it to the reader or viewer's imagination. If you do go back to create it, then I think have to do the same thing again... create the feeling that an amazing story took place before your story, thus creating sense of depth in world building, even if it isn't actually created. Just connecting the dots and hinting at nothing further in the past is not a good prequel imo and one would be better off leaving it to the imagination.
Moderator"In Trump We Trust," says the Golden Goat of Mars Lago. Have faith and believe! Trump moves in mysterious ways. Like the wind he blows where he pleases...
Chriss001
Profile Joined December 2015
2 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-12-24 06:45:10
December 24 2015 06:45 GMT
#18
Bot edit.

User was banned for this post.
Juliette
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States6003 Posts
December 24 2015 14:02 GMT
#19
typo: + Show Spoiler +
Then Obi Wan could interrupt the ritual could be interrupted by Obi Wan, driving off the minions and leading to the final fight and disavowal- and burning, Anakin disappears from view, but before Obi Wan can investigate further, he is driven off by a wrath filled Palpatine- perhaps mass earthquakes or something (if it was previously established that Palpatine was arriving soon, perhaps being delayed by Yoda.)


--

I appreciate this post a lot! I'm writing a big blog post on a very unrelated topic and its taking forever, so it's encouraging to see others write and post long thought pieces.

I especially enjoy the emphasis on the politics in your imagined prequels. It keeps with a lot of the style of 4-7, where many of the action scenes aren't just action for the sake of action. I also really enjoy the idea of so many different forces wearing Anakin down (padme vs. political ideals, different jedi factions).

However one thing I really enjoyed in the prequels was the sense of loftiness the Jedi had. Seeing the way Jedi trained, the way they cared about their ideals, and how much it took for them to serve made the fall so much more significant, and made order 66 so much more heartbreaking. It made palatine more evil in cleansing the galaxy of the Jedi, and makes the situation in 4-7 even more dire with Luke as the only thing left in the legacy. Especially with the Old Republic, and Jedi/Sith wars in EU, where there we so many of them, the dichotomy from all the Jedi -> no Jedi is, I think, central to Star Wars.

If you're portraying the Jedi as weaker than they were in the films, there has to be something to show their heyday. Maybe politicians that recognize the Jedi from when they were in positions of power, and give them an old guard sort of respect. Show off some of the old temples (which makes sense in the context of 7, where Luke is searching for one), and show their desperation - that they're willing to train an older Anakin when their padawan are normally young. It would strengthen Obi-Wan's brotherhood with Anakin if he believes that Anakin can help the Jedi re-gain influence. Maybe scenes where the Jedi, who aren't as revered, get to show off for the audience. Even if it's futile in the grand scheme of things, the Jedi become more human for us in their attempt to cope with their lack of prominence.

The issue might be that showing the Jedi from the middle of their descent down to the bottom isn't as impactful as the PT's attempt to go from their height (as generals, as peacekeepers, and universally respected) because we can't see what we're hoping for in 6-7. With the PT, we can see what we're hoping for: a galaxy full of heroic/good Jedi that have been heart-breakingly destroyed. I suppose "hope that isn't seen is not hope," but if we start in the middle the situation remains more hopeless, even with Luke's rise.

I really enjoy all this Star Wars hype :D
OKAY FROM THAT PERSPECTIVE I SEE WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT
AllHailHydraGod
Profile Joined June 2012
80 Posts
December 24 2015 15:52 GMT
#20
What about Obi-Wan's "If you strike me down I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine" line.

The only thing that makes sense to me is he'll become a martyr, powerful meaning he'll become a symbol for the righteous fight, an umbrella to unite and coerce idle bystanders to join the resistance under; which pretty much came to being with the joint coordinated strike force, even though it hasn't specifically been linked to Kenobi's death.

This line probably sparked the emotional conflict which lead to Anakin's absolution, I'm guessing because the power-playboy got reminded that while the dark side's maximum power, however alluring for a single or a couple of individuals, is limited by the wielder's lifetime, the light side is infinitely stronger as the sum of the small doses in each and every individual working together for the common good and thus is of a higher dimension.

A prequel would have to explain the dark side as a failed attempt to philosophically overarch still the light side's limitations, portray the adepts of the dark side as pioneers of force-research who's short-circuited psyche has been left to rot in disconnection to the light side's grace.

Then any sequels would be galvanized to debate whether the problem with the dark side experiment has been the incompetence of its adepts, a lack of support and understanding by the light side, an inopportune time for this aspect of the force to be accessed as a general immaturity or what...
Seeker: "You are way too unique for TL. You and TL are just not a good fit. I looked at your past 50 posts, and just... Holy shit... I wish you the best of luck elsewhere." Facet: "Good-guy-timetraveler Seeker let's you know your permaban is temporary."
1 2 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
RSL Revival
10:00
Season 1: Group A
Percival vs SpiritLIVE!
ByuN vs TBD
Tasteless715
ComeBackTV 608
IndyStarCraft 183
IntoTheiNu 44
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Tasteless 715
Lowko353
IndyStarCraft 183
Harstem 106
ProTech65
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 9017
Sea 6109
Rain 5895
Horang2 1620
Pusan 640
BeSt 376
EffOrt 297
Stork 292
Hyun 247
Mini 213
[ Show more ]
Light 117
Mong 106
Snow 102
ZerO 89
ToSsGirL 70
Rush 68
Liquid`Ret 62
JulyZerg 61
Sacsri 40
Sea.KH 40
[sc1f]eonzerg 30
GoRush 30
Sharp 28
Icarus 23
sSak 14
soO 14
HiyA 13
Movie 13
Shine 10
scan(afreeca) 7
ivOry 3
Dota 2
Gorgc4096
qojqva747
XaKoH 462
XcaliburYe357
Fuzer 224
Counter-Strike
olofmeister1712
x6flipin441
byalli199
allub180
markeloff103
Other Games
singsing1654
B2W.Neo925
C9.Mang0408
crisheroes344
DeMusliM234
Pyrionflax226
hiko211
Mew2King86
elazer63
ArmadaUGS58
QueenE32
ZerO(Twitch)14
Trikslyr13
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Secondary Stream19281
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream5296
StarCraft: Brood War
lovetv 10
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 72
• Kozan
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• Migwel
• intothetv
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 1
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 1551
• lizZardDota271
League of Legends
• Nemesis7588
• Jankos1323
Other Games
• WagamamaTV129
Upcoming Events
WardiTV Qualifier
3h 33m
PiGosaur Monday
11h 33m
RSL Revival
21h 33m
herO vs sOs
Zoun vs Clem
Replay Cast
1d 11h
The PondCast
1d 21h
RSL Revival
1d 21h
Harstem vs SHIN
Solar vs Cham
Replay Cast
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
Reynor vs Scarlett
ShoWTimE vs Classic
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
3 days
SC Evo League
3 days
[ Show More ]
Circuito Brasileiro de…
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #3 - GSC
2025 GSL S2
Heroes 10 EU

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
BSL Season 20
Acropolis #3
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 2
NPSL S3
Rose Open S1
CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
Copa Latinoamericana 4
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters
CCT Season 2 Global Finals
IEM Melbourne 2025
YaLLa Compass Qatar 2025
PGL Bucharest 2025

Upcoming

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
K-Championship
SEL Season 2 Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
HSC XXVII
Championship of Russia 2025
BLAST Open Fall 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.