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On January 16 2015 20:30 Pandemona wrote:
It like to know how she said it "i want to have sex with him" was she jokingly saying it, was she just making small talk. How random was it.
Was she drunk etcetc.
Because if she was just joking and then you come up with her to say go for it, go and try and get it on with him you get one night. She might take offense to it etc and then start questioning "why is he letting me do this, has he done it before" etcetc and then the trust is gone in your relationship and it is doomed to fail.
Yeah, that was my point too !
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She is basically yelling at you that she is fantasizing about sex that is different from that with you. You are married for a long time. Start mixing it up and dont let her touch him or vice versa. Recall her vows if need be. Wtf... i marry you and vow to have you and only you for my entire life in good or bad times, but then i want a different cock only for wednesdays?
She got into your head real good. CosmicSpiral put it neatly.
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If this isn't fake your wife is sabotaging the relationship. Whatever, you got married too early. The fact that you would even consider letting her just goes to show your own lack of playing the field and missed opportunities and ability while still young. Live and learn.
Someone on reddit recently posted some shit about being with a guy for 8 years and he needed to propose before her dad died. I wrote this long shit:
Some of it applies here:
Gonna be brutally honest here because it sounds like you need a reality check. Here's the thing. Fuck your dad. He has nothing at all to do with your marriage and your boyfriend's decisions or your future.
If it's so important for you to be married now, why don't you propose?
Also, what is the rush to be married now? Who gives a shit if no one is going anywhere. It sounds like you are just injecting chaos or attempting to sabotage a relationship. Maybe the relationship has run it's course. That's fine. Move along. Don't fuck your life up by forcing a marriage that isn't meant to be. Maybe you can't accept that truth? Don't think of it as time invested, think of it as time wasted. Live and learn, not meant to be, and all those platitudes.
Couple of facts about men and marriage:
Firstly, marriage the younger you are has a higher chance of divorce in the western world.
There really isn't any point to marriage unless you are trying to have kids/start a family.
Settling down for a man is a huge deal. It's probably the biggest decision in a man's life. A man WILL NOT sign up for marriage unless he has all his shit in order. Financially secure, emotionally secure, job security, a home, etc. This is party because of the religious/cultural shame of divorce as well as the the lie to oneself if it's not for serious. And there is also the legal system's ridiculous rape of divorce/marriage and being weighted in favor of women.
Lastly, men in general have to work their natural drives out of their system. What I mean by this, is that men have an inherent drive for novelty &variety, which basically means sex/dating with many women. They do this for a couple of reasons. Testosterone drives it, the brains is wired for it, etc.
If a man feels like he still has opportunity or hasn't had a chance to play the field, that's a huge weight in the back of his mind. He literally cannot commit that seriously if he knows that he might act on that or wants that.
In a more positive note, you have to ask yourself then, well what's the purpose of marriage? The purpose is that marriage has some tax breaks for couples and families, as well as being healthier for relationships and satisfaction of life (aka happiness). So if not to make him happier, it's just stressing him.
TL;DR Push your chips all in or fold. it's on you, not him.
As another key point specific to your story, women are not men. They don't think or act this way. Sex is more of a bonding serious and intimate thing. Women typically won't/can't just sleep with a guy that don't want to be with emotionally and romantically. Sex isn;t just some drive, some urge to relieve, like it is for men. If a man is cheating, he's just being a dickhead and not containing his urges or doesnt care about his relationship. If a woman is cheating, it's more like she's done with the relationship and looking for a way out or a way to trade up as you aren't fulfilling her emotional needs. There is one possible caveat to this however, lots of women go through their 'bad boy' phase, generally in their teens to late twenties where they try and date damaged goods in hopes of training them or fixing them. This during a marriage though, doesn't negate what I said earlier.
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Just tell your wife that you wanna have your Adonis look-alike diddle with your butt dude, she's already been open with you
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You keep saying you want your wife to be happy, but that only works if its a two-way street. I don't know all the details, but if she literally just out of the blue (and completely seriously) told you, "hey I wanna have sex with this guy" - like, without bringing up the subject before, without figuring out softly whether you might be okay with some open relationship ideas etc, that's fucking awful of her, no other way to put it. You're saying that if you told her no, you'd be blackmailing her with the relationship - but she is doing pretty much the same thing, in a way that is both much bigger and more sneaky, nevermind pretty much completely against what you two agreed to when you first got married - I assume open relationship wasn't on the cards back then.
Like, if any of my girlfriends, past or current, brought something like this up, I'd pretty much just dump them on the spot unless they managed to convince me it was some kind of a stupid, misplaced joke. While I am totally okay with the idea of open relationships (when other people do it), it's not something I subscribe to and I know for a fact I wouldn't be happy with it, and there is nothing unfair, selfish or 'blackmailing' about me refusing it.
Also, the argument for sexual attraction being a strong force that you can't just discard is quite frankly bullshit. People have attractions to all kinds of shitty things, alcohol, drugs, eating five kilos of candy daily, hitting their kids when they're angry, whatever. That's the difference between humans and animals though - just because you're 'attracted' to something doesn't mean you're going to do it; it's called self-control. Saying that this is natural and not something that can be controlled is pretty much same as saying rape is okay.
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If she's asking you for permission it's because she's already slept with him many times and now she's just trying to retroactively justify it in case she ever gets caught.
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CosmicSpiral, I don't come to this website often, only when I'm looking for world class advice, so your reputation is lost on me. That said, while I deeply appreciate your thoughtful response, I think you are looking at things in a naive way--the same way I had for many years of my life. To keep it organized, I will do it inline style
"In a marriage, there is no such thing as “separate happiness”. Every party’s contentment with the bond may be influenced by outside factors (family, career, hobbies, depression, etc.), but most actions will impact the trust and affection of the relationship in some manner. I understand you may feel it’s noble to cede to your wife’s wants, as if denying them was an affront to her agency and right to happiness. But if we accept the idea that both parties are responsible for balancing individual and group fulfillment, then she has an equal obligation to consider how her act would impact your wants and needs. Suppose this goes down, she has a great night, and she returns…but with lingering desire for something more with your neighbor? It would undoubtedly hurt the marriage, but also your relationship with the Marine. How honest, forthcoming, and witty could he be, knowing that he is driving a wedge between two people he cares about?
I think you are looking at this through a lens that has been biased by tradition and social conventions since the day your cosmic feet hit terra firma.
I agree that her happiness is connected to my happiness. In fact, it is SO connected, that I am not willing to sentence her to a lifetime in an emotional cage so that I don't have to acknowledge that there are other guys out there that she feels like having sex with.
My question to you is: why should this negatively affect our relationship? If I was still doing my best impression of an ape, erecting a set of RULES for her to follow and blackmailing her with the relationship to follow them...or ELSE! Then I would definitely be affected.
But I realize that this guy has something I could NEVER give her. LIke I said in the OP, I'm NOT the handsome, ripped marine next door. I never will be. As long as she has that desire and truly believes acting on it will make her a happier person, that is a desire I can never fulfill. The question I have to answer is whether I should restrict her from potentially being a happier person simply so that I don't have to acknowledge my own shortcomings.
What I'm saying is: This wouldn't shatter my ego like it might shatter yours, from what I gather. In fact, if your self-worth is shattered because you have to accept the fact that you can't possibly fulfill EVERY SINGLE DESIRE your significant other has...then you are living in a dream world. You CAN'T be everything for everyone, all the time. And it's not your job to be.
Your job, at least what it sounds like you think your job is, is to try to justify the set of rules you put in place for the other person; the bars on this emotional cage. What I want from this relationship isn't affected by her doing what she truly thinks will make her happier, so why stop her?
"However, I’d rather not focus on the dilemma in itself. Based on your wording, I feel like this is slight misdirection. If you were genuinely confused on the topic and didn't know how to approach it at all, this blog would be considerably shorter. Instead, you passively argue in favor of the cuckolding. You compare yourself to your neighbor’s physical grandiosity and find yourself wanting; you praise your wife in distinctly non-sexual terms but condone a possible decision rooted purely in lust; you talk about being wholly dedicated to your wife’s happiness, but fail to consider that any unhappiness on your part will affect the marriage indirectly. You offer no compelling argument in favor of the faithful opinion. It already sounds like you've made up your mind, so why ask TL netizens for advice when you’re not-so-subtly challenging them to defy your logic?"
I am an agnostic on every issue of substance I can think of. To pretend as though every person that asks for advice doesn't have past experiences that shade where they think the answer will take them, is wrong. I'm confused. That's the bottom line, and I'm looking for a wise person to try to set me straight again.
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If you're so content with your wife being a whore then why are you even asking for opinions here? It also sounds like you might be a closet bisexual because you talk about this other guy as if you wanted to sleep with him yourself.
Also, for what it's worth,
she is a wonderful nurturer and caregiver for our future children
I assure you a woman that wants to sleep around on her husband is pretty much the opposite of a good mother.
You should probably seek professional help from a licensed marriage therapist instead of using a video game forum on the internet.
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If you're so content with your wife being a whore then why are you even asking for opinions here?
I, unlike you, understand that I've had a limited set of experiences in my life and don't masquerade around as though I already know everything. I would consider myself to be agnostic on this issue and am looking for someone to help me get back to the mental place where wise people like you reside. I just am interesting in ACTUALLY knowing, rather than just pretending I know.
It also sounds like you might be a closet bisexual because you talk about this other guy as if you wanted to sleep with him yourself.
Your insecurity shines through in everything that you say. I was painting a picture for the reader that the guy was the quintessential alpha male that women are biologically programmed to be attracted to. The fact you can't even acknowledge when another guy has qualities that traditionally have been attractive to the opposite sex without feeling gay is a testament to how insecure you are at your core. In your fucked up brain, me saying that Brad Pitt is attractive to females is tantamount to wanting his cock in my mouth.
I assure you a woman that wants to sleep around on her husband is pretty much the opposite of a good mother.
Are you under the impression that no woman has ever had an affair and still been an incredible mother? Are you under the impression no woman has ever WANTED to sleep around on her husband, not acted on the desire and still been a great mother?
Sexual exclusivity has NOTHING to do with being a good mother. In fact, I explicitly talk about her qualities of being nurturing and being a good care-giver...both of which are not affected in the slightest bit if she has sex with another guy. You, digging into these brilliant extreme opinions in your mind, are going to say: "Well, how is it good for the kids if she goes around sleeping all around town like a whore? What kind of example is that to set for the kids??"
So are you saying as long as she keeps it a secret from the kids then it's OK? Of course you aren't. Which just goes to show that it, in fact, is NOT sexual exclusivity that fuels that opinion, but actually your own animalistic insecurities that you desperately spend every day defending--never looking at them honestly.
You should probably seek professional help from a licensed marriage therapist instead of using a video game forum on the internet.
Maybe I need a marriage counselor, but you need a house that isn't made out of glass.
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largely agree with cosmicspiral. first, while this is new for you, if you decide to go with it, trends like this tend to not be a one time thing. she may only want to sleep with him once, but maybe a year or three down the road she'll meet someone else and get that same lust again. if you can find a way to be genuinely happy in letting her sleep with another man, then i dont think theres much to talk about. you should be careful about wanting to force yourself to be happy about it though because those are very much not the same things - and the latter will hurt at some point.
So what? I love her. I want her to be as happy as possible. Let's say she finds out a year from now that there is an emotional void that she truly thinks will be filled by being with someone else. Why wouldn't I want her to have that better life? Why would I want her to live a second-rate existence with me when she can be happier with someone else?
My decisions in a relationship shouldn't be about KEEPING IT GOING at all costs. If she will be happier with someone else, why should that bother me? I'm an advocate of honesty. Whether she acts on these desires or not, she still has an emotional void in need of filling. I would much rather it comes out now in this way than it manifesting itself somehow 20 years from now. Ultimately, maybe we just aren't compatible. And if we aren't...WHY WOULD I WANT TO WASTE TIME AND STAY WITH HER?
if its the former and you decide that you are ok with her sleeping with another man, you should consider bringing up the idea of reciprocity before it happens so she knows whats on the table. it sounds like you have done a lot of thinking about what will effect her happiness - i hope that shes putting just as much effort into how her actions will effect yours. if the idea of you being with someone else is unconscionable to her then maybe that will lead the conversation somewhere else.
I'm not doing this just so that I can get something out of it down the line. This isn't some sort of twisted bargain. I don't let her do the things she does simply because I get to do the same thing at some future date...In fact, I'd like to remove that "let her do things" from my vocabulary all together. Who am I to "let" her do anything? She isn't my property.
By the way, it's fascinating that we don't restrict our significant others from doing CERTAIN things. We don't restrict them from going to Disneyland...or eating ice cream...or going to the mall with their friends...or anything like that. No...there is this very specific set of behaviors that we have RULES for them to follow.
My point is, going to Disneyland makes my wife happy. I don't restrict her from going. I don't say that she can go...BUT ONLY if I can go six months from now. No, I want her to be happy, so why wouldn't I let her go?
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She's gonna do it regardless of your permission so you've just got to decide whether you're cool with it or not.
Yes. And whether she does it or not, that doesn't change the fact that she has a desire to do it. Like you said, I am left with a choice: Live in an honest relationship or a dishonest one where she still believes that sleeping around is going to bring her long term happiness, but I am blackmailing her into submission.
What kind of masochistic person would I have to be? ESPECIALLY to the supposed, "love of my life"? Isn't it a GOOD thing if I see her for who she truly is, rather than just an act she is putting on because she doesn't want to get dumped? Ultimately at the root of all this is the idea of short term gratification being a catalyst to happiness, vs longterm.
If this mindset doesn't present itself in this case, bullet dodged. But that bullet is still in her mind swimming around and it will come back in some other form. Why not have a real discussion about what we both want from our relationship?
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Talk it over, but don't let her do it for your own sake.
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Today I learned that going to Disneyland and having extramarital sex are the same thing.
![[image loading]](http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/GD6qtc2_AQA/hqdefault.jpg)
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First one being the one worded by Cosmic: "Suppose this goes down, she has a great night, and she returns…but with lingering desire for something more with your neighbor?". You don't want to take the risk of starting something between her and him. But that might just be my own insecurities talking.
I think it is. Just listen to yourself, "you don't want to take the risk of starting something between her and him."
What? Take the risk of her living what she feels is a happier life without me? How could I live with myself if I let that happen?
Oh yeah, I know how. I would realize that she is the type of person that equates fleeting sexual pleasures with long term happiness and that she feels happier in her new relationship. Keep in mind, this isn't my girlfriend in the seventh grade...this is the woman I am married to who I love deeply and want to be as happy as possible, even if it's not with me.
My decisions in this relationship shouldn't be about stringing this along as long as I possibly can.
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Today I learned that going to Disneyland and having extramarital sex are the same thing.
You didn't learn anything today. In fact, the opposite happened. You spend every second of your life digging in to what you already think you know. If you ever want to look at your thoughts honestly you will come back to the thread and re-read what I wrote.
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To me and my fiance, sex is an intimate act where we open up to each other and fully trust each other. To do that with someone else is the worst betrayal possible. So, if my wife even said that, let alone actually did that, I may very well boot her ass out the door right there. It's not about insecurity, but what our relationship is about and the trust between each other.
Why do you need to trust her about this very selective group of activities? It's funny how no one ever thinks about why they restrict their significant other from CERTAIN things, but not from other things.
As I said in another reply: You don't restrict her from going to Disneyland. You don't restrict her from pumpkin pie, or from going out to the movies with her friends. You restrict her from this VERY SELECTIVE collection of activities. Why is that?
Hint: It's because you are insecure. We all are. You are terrified she is going to find someone that she likes more than you and leave you for them. So to prevent this from happening you lock her in a cage and make her pretend as though the outside world doesn't exist.
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On January 17 2015 01:41 Salazarz wrote:
Also, the argument for sexual attraction being a strong force that you can't just discard is quite frankly bullshit. People have attractions to all kinds of shitty things, alcohol, drugs, eating five kilos of candy daily, hitting their kids when they're angry, whatever. That's the difference between humans and animals though - just because you're 'attracted' to something doesn't mean you're going to do it; it's called self-control. Saying that this is natural and not something that can be controlled is pretty much same as saying rape is okay.
I think this is a very good point. If you get angry and feel like hitting your wife, should she let you do it because it's what you want to do?
On January 17 2015 02:14 KING CHARLIE :D wrote:
I think you are looking at this through a lens that has been biased by tradition and social conventions since the day your cosmic feet hit terra firma.
I agree that her happiness is connected to my happiness. In fact, it is SO connected, that I am not willing to sentence her to a lifetime in an emotional cage so that I don't have to acknowledge that there are other guys out there that she feels like having sex with.
My question to you is: why should this negatively affect our relationship? If I was still doing my best impression of an ape, erecting a set of RULES for her to follow and blackmailing her with the relationship to follow them...or ELSE! Then I would definitely be affected.
But I realize that this guy has something I could NEVER give her. LIke I said in the OP, I'm NOT the handsome, ripped marine next door. I never will be. As long as she has that desire and truly believes acting on it will make her a happier person, that is a desire I can never fulfill. The question I have to answer is whether I should restrict her from potentially being a happier person simply so that I don't have to acknowledge my own shortcomings.
What I'm saying is: This wouldn't shatter my ego like it might shatter yours, from what I gather. In fact, if your self-worth is shattered because you have to accept the fact that you can't possibly fulfill EVERY SINGLE DESIRE your significant other has...then you are living in a dream world. You CAN'T be everything for everyone, all the time. And it's not your job to be.
Your job, at least what it sounds like you think your job is, is to try to justify the set of rules you put in place for the other person; the bars on this emotional cage. What I want from this relationship isn't affected by her doing what she truly thinks will make her happier, so why stop her?
I can't explain it logically, but your words give me a very strong impression of self hatred and wanting to punish yourself. In a way, you will be using your wife as an instrument in this, and I believe you will resent her for it down the line. Basically she will be helping you to validate your own low self opinion. I think that out of self defense you've twisted this around to be a sacrifice made out of strength, when in reality it seems more like resignation and despair.
Your language is telling... a marriage with you is an "emotional cage", and asking someone to honor that marriage is "blackmail". This doesn't sound like a healthy self image at all. And it seems odd to me, that if you despise social conventions so much, that you would choose to remain married in the first place. Things just don't add up here.
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There are base emotions that a human has that will affect him no matter how much he tries to 'reason' against it.
Unless I am mistaken, you guys got married at 17 with monogamy clearly in mind. Now there is some outside factor that may or may not have ever been around before, and your wife, unless I am mistaken, wants to change the fundamental tenants of your entire relationship.
Instead of going on some philosophical tangents about marriage/emotion/shit that your base emotions will completely throw out the window when shit actually goes down, TRULY ask yourself really simple, base questions:
1) You have looked at other attractive women, maybe even lustfully. Assuming you and an attractive woman hit it off, would you ask your wife for permission to have one-night of meaningless sex?
ex. I wouldn't. Because I'm considerate of the implications of the act of asking that question aloud has to my best friend on the entire planet. If I'm happy, why the fuck would I threaten that happiness even slightly for a fleeting moment?
2) You say yes. Your wife and the guy have amazing sex. Now your wife and you have sex and something is different. Good or bad, are you prepared for the consequences? I can't think of a single human being on the planet that wouldn't have some inner turmoil knowing his wife has willingly fucked (I believe this term is appropriate) another dude just for some good feels.
ex. This is where I feel like you aren't really considering the reality of your base emotions. You will be fucked up in some way or another after this. If you aren't, you are probably the 1%. Probability says you aren't. If your wife is a decent human being she will pick up on this and she will be fucked up that she even introduced such a rift in your relationship.
3) If you somehow 'reason' yourself into thinking our relationship with your wife/your life in general will improve after this, consider the possible implications this may have on the guy. What if he actually has a history of mental illness and develops an infatuation with your wife? This is a human being and you're objectifying the shit of him as a piece of meat.
i.e. How cool can a guy be knowing that he's having sex with another dude's wife i.e. pure inconsiderate YOLO mentality?
I don't know. Alot of people in this thread have given you sound advice, essentially putting up a dozen roadsigns telling you that this, in all probability, will fuck up your relationship (and from the sound of it your life) and you're reasoning it all away like your relationship is something special.
If you like gambling with your marriage then be my guest, and good luck.
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On January 17 2015 03:47 KING CHARLIE :D wrote:Show nested quote +Today I learned that going to Disneyland and having extramarital sex are the same thing. You didn't learn anything today. In fact, the opposite happened. You spend every second of your life digging in to what you already think you know. If you ever want to look at your thoughts honestly you will come back to the thread and re-read what I wrote.
I'm sure I'll read it in a few months when you release your memoirs after turning into a serial rapist/killer when your wife leaves you for the army guy.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/T6HFJbk.jpg)
