Hey guys, I usually get along just fine in relationships and never have a hard time arriving at what I think the correct decision is, but this time things are different. I need your help. Quick background on me as a frame of reference for any future advice you plan on giving: I am a 25 year old, straight male who is comfortable with himself. No serious health defects or history of abuse…(so self esteem is not the issue here)
Alright, onto my problem. My wife and I have been together for 8 years and I can honestly say that I love her deeply. Her happiness in all aspects of her life is one of the most important things to me in the entire world, and I am willing to do almost anything in the name of making her happy.
Anyway, I live in a condo complex. Our condo is in a close proximity to surrounding condos where other young, tax-paying productive citizens dwell. In one of these condos is a guy that seems a little older than me that is nothing short of spectacular in every visible way.
He is in the Marines. He served two tours of duty in Iraq and one in Afghanistan. He was such a highly decorated warrior that now the Marines have him training the FUTURE generations of savage warriors. This guy is a hero.
Couple this with the fact that his face looks like it was carved out of granite. He has cheekbones and a jawbone that make girls need waterproof panties. His abs look like they're fucking CGI'd onto his body. He walks around outside his condo shirtless…in the dead of winter. But what's even more impressive than all of this is that he is an awesome dude.
I've talked to him several times and he has never been anything short of cordial, smart and respectful.
I have a dog. Sometimes that dog needs to take a shit, and when he does, my wife takes him out and stands around waiting to collect the shit with the bag.
Sometimes, this Marine happens to be taking his dog out for a walk at the same time and starts talking to my wife. He makes her laugh, they talk about their jobs…they're friends.
Here's the problem: my wife approached me a few days ago and told me that she would love to have sex with him once. She would never want a relationship with him, but she would love to go across the parking lot, have one night of fun with him and never do it again.
My question to you people is:
Why shouldn't I let her?
I was thinking about it…I want her to be happy. My function in this relationship is not to fulfill every single fleeting desire my wife could possibly have…after all how could I? I am NEVER going to be the hot, battle-hardened warrior next door with six-packs and seven-inches. Simply based on my genetics… that is a desire of hers that I, myself, could NEVER fulfill.
Why should I restrict her from doing something that she thinks will make her happy? Why should I blackmail her with the relationship saying that if she goes and has sex with someone else, I will punish her by breaking up with her?
Even if someone was a complete stranger, I wouldn't want them to spend their life in some relegated, less-happy-than-they-could-be state of living. Why do I reserve this INCREDIBLE treatment for the person that I supposedly care about more than anyone else in the world? Why do we even want sexual and emotional exclusivity so bad? The longer I think about it, the more I realize that I have been locking my wife in a cage for our entire relationship, simply because I don't want to look at myself in the mirror honestly and acknowledge my own inadequacies.
I'm in this relationship for a LOT of reasons. My wife is a great problem solver, she is a wonderful nurturer and caregiver for our future children, she is a brilliant thinker and conversationalist, she is funny…My point is: NONE of these things change if she has sex with the guy next door! The only reason I would restrict her from doing it is because I am insecure. I am terrified that she is going to leave me and think that he makes her happier than I do. So to avoid this, I lock her in this emotional cage and force her to pretend the rest of the world doesn't exist so that I don't have to feel like I am anything less than perfect.
But, I'm not perfect. And let's say my worst nightmare comes to fruition. Let's say that she has sex with this guy and realizes that the warrior penis is what has been missing ALL HER LIFE and that she is happier with him. Well, if I truly care about her happiness as much as I say I do…wouldn't that be a great thing?
True, but unless if someone shows me how wrong I am about all this, then she wouldn't be cheating and I wouldn't be outraged. I would have to make my foray into acting, but I'm down.
Do you get a free ticket for sex with another woman in return?
Seriously. That might make her think or twice, or at least open things up into something you'd be more comfortable with, although that's still a big deal obviously.
Edit: If she says yes that might not help. Almost no guy will say no to a one night stand, but many women will, so it'll probably be difficult for you to get a correspondingly hot babe. Asking the question might at least open up some dialogue on how she feels and what she wants though and how she might feel if she were in YOUR shoes.
On January 16 2015 13:50 Fighter wrote: Do you get a free ticket for sex with another woman in return?
Seriously. That might make her think or twice, or at least open things up into something you'd be more comfortable with, although that's still a big deal obviously.
Edit: If she says yes that might not help. Almost no guy will say no to a one night stand, but many women will, so it'll probably be difficult for you to get a correspondingly hot babe. Asking the question might at least open up some dialogue on how she feels and what she wants though and how she might feel if she were in YOUR shoes.
This.
Having sex with others is a difficult proposition. The first thing you need to talk about with her is, "What is our relationship about? What is monogamy to us and how important is it?"
To me and my fiance, sex is an intimate act where we open up to each other and fully trust each other. To do that with someone else is the worst betrayal possible. So, if my wife even said that, let alone actually did that, I may very well boot her ass out the door right there. It's not about insecurity, but what our relationship is about and the trust between each other.
That said, for some couples, it may not be a big deal, and that's totally fine. That's something you should talk about with her. However, you definitely need to ask the question I quoted; just put it straight with her and ask "So if you are going to sleep with him, I get to sleep with someone else, right?" If she 1) actually wants to sleep with this guy and 2) says that she doesn't want you to sleep with another woman, then she is being nothing but selfish and immature. If she's fine with you sleeping with another woman, then you guys get to talk about your relationship and what monogamy means to you. However, be aware that if you go that route, it will undoubtedly open up a whole can of worms. If she does it once, what's to stop her from doing it again? I find it pretty hard to imagine a couple becoming open and then going back to being monogamous. It'd be pretty difficult.
It's only cheating if one does it without consent. A relationship is a two-way interaction, each one of you provides and receives value.. from what I read it seems to me you're lacking masculinity. It's as if you accepted your current state as your forever state, you will always be the same. Which is utter bullshit btw. You don't strive to become a stronger version of yourself, you have no path which is crucially linked to the masculine.
Your wife is attracted to that masculinity, this is the value the marine brings. The great thing about this you admit you're insecure and most likely needy. What you're actually doing is changing your role from masculine to feminine. You're reversing the roles. What happens when two magnets of the same force come close to each other? They repel.
Now before I get more into this, regardless if you're lesbian, gay, bisexual, straight or w/e EVERY sexual relationship needs to have two opposing forces, one masculine and one feminine. One ravager and one ravagee. If there is no polarity you're just playing with each other.
I learned this from, The Way of the Superior Man by David Deida
Cool thing about this is your problem is just a seed now and you have the opportunity to make great gains and become a stronger version of yourself, but if you let it this slide.. you're fucked. Only thing you have to do is take action, and all your worries, anxiety, etc are gone.
When you dominate your path, know where you're going, and know that it will happen. You'll have so much value that your woman (and other women) can't ignore it, she doesn't even think about other men because you're too awesome. Here's some examples.. JFK had a wife and mistress (Marilyn Monroe) Bill Clinton has a wife and had an affair, strange both their wives didn't divorce..
Watch you say yes then the marine turns around and says no way you two are crazy! I would imagine it would be incredibly awkward for all parties involved if it went down. Plus you say this now but who knows how you will feel while its happening or after its done. *shrug* everyone has their own take on what a relationship is and there are people who prefer sexually open relationships. As was said before you two need to sit down and hash some things out first but its not exactly unheard of if you both decide its fine.
KING CHARLIE, your wife’s desire for another man is perfectly normal. The vector of sexual attraction is not something humans can consciously control at any specific point, although it is something we can gradually direct through processes of rationalization and association. Both men and women are affected equally, although there are more social regulations for women. If your account is true, it’s hard to see why she wouldn’t be aroused. Charming yet gracious and nonthreatening! A caretaker with clear empathy towards other living animals! Socially broadcasted norms of toughness and virility! Comfortable with his life and decisions! At the very least you recognize that there’s no moral corruption occurring here, no more than if you met Kate Upton and managed to hit it off.
However, I’d rather not focus on the dilemma in itself. Based on your wording, I feel like this is slight misdirection. If you were genuinely confused on the topic and didn't know how to approach it at all, this blog would be considerably shorter. Instead, you passively argue in favor of the cuckolding. You compare yourself to your neighbor’s physical grandiosity and find yourself wanting; you praise your wife in distinctly non-sexual terms but condone a possible decision rooted purely in lust; you talk about being wholly dedicated to your wife’s happiness, but fail to consider that any unhappiness on your part will affect the marriage indirectly. You offer no compelling argument in favor of the faithful opinion. It already sounds like you've made up your mind, so why ask TL netizens for advice when you’re not-so-subtly challenging them to defy your logic?
In a marriage, there is no such thing as “separate happiness”. Every party’s contentment with the bond may be influenced by outside factors (family, career, hobbies, depression, etc.), but most actions will impact the trust and affection of the relationship in some manner. I understand you may feel it’s noble to cede to your wife’s wants, as if denying them was an affront to her agency and right to happiness. But if we accept the idea that both parties are responsible for balancing individual and group fulfillment, then she has an equal obligation to consider how her act would impact your wants and needs. Suppose this goes down, she has a great night, and she returns…but with lingering desire for something more with your neighbor? It would undoubtedly hurt the marriage, but also your relationship with the Marine. How honest, forthcoming, and witty could he be, knowing that he is driving a wedge between two people he cares about?
The main issue is not your wife’s yearnings and whether it will impact your relationship in a negative way. It’s why you feel the path to true happiness (in this situation, although I suspect it crops up a lot more often than you let on) involves a one-sided sacrifice that doesn't account for your side of the story. There’s not nearly enough information to make a proper diagnosis, but you are exhibiting signs of codependency. That problem, and not this minor dalliance, might be the thing that ruins your future.
EDIT: 10k post, yadda yadda, pop balloons and stuff
Just like that, as mysteriously as he arrived, he was gone. He's the hero Girl Blogs deserve, but not the one it needs right now. A Dark Swirl in the Heavens. A CosmicSpiral.
largely agree with cosmicspiral. first, while this is new for you, if you decide to go with it, trends like this tend to not be a one time thing. she may only want to sleep with him once, but maybe a year or three down the road she'll meet someone else and get that same lust again. if you can find a way to be genuinely happy in letting her sleep with another man, then i dont think theres much to talk about. you should be careful about wanting to force yourself to be happy about it though because those are very much not the same things - and the latter will hurt at some point.
if its the former and you decide that you are ok with her sleeping with another man, you should consider bringing up the idea of reciprocity before it happens so she knows whats on the table. it sounds like you have done a lot of thinking about what will effect her happiness - i hope that shes putting just as much effort into how her actions will effect yours. if the idea of you being with someone else is unconscionable to her then maybe that will lead the conversation somewhere else. all that said, all relationships are different and if what makes you happy is letting your wife be with other people and you dont want to be with other people then thats fine too. just be honest with yourself, and each other, and dont try to force your feelings.
frankly, what you are proposing is emotionally incredibly difficult to go through and most people come out the other side worse for it so be careful. good luck with whatever you decide to do.
Is this for real? The situation seems so cliché I'm not sure what to think.
Anyway, I think it really says something about a person that she would even ask something like that without knowing beforehand your general feelings towards the subject...it meant she was willing to risk making you super mad over the suggestion (which many people would be), so I would be concerned about how much she values your feelings. You aren't super mad, but you did post a soul-searching blog about it which tends to indicate some degree of inner conflict and anxiety.
Also, it's a bit of an assumption about the other guy, the Marine. You haven't said if he would be ok with it, if your wife sort of forces herself on him that makes another injured party (maybe he's not attracted to her, he's gay, he's uncomfortable cuckolding you, he already has a girlfriend, etc.)
Personally, I think the whole "do it once then never again" is way easier said than done. Sex is a physically intimate act and it can trick the brain into thinking intimately towards the other. Even if she doesn't fall in love with him the first time, if she just physically enjoys it, why wouldn't she be tempted by the physical enjoyment again? And if she turns out not to enjoy it, she could start feeling seriously guilty (I was unfaithful to my husband and for what?)
Stuff like this is in my opinion only ok if you both first entered the relationship knowing you were comfortable with your partner sleeping around, and continued to feel that way. If she really desperately wants and needs to sleep with this guy, you might need to break up, as you apparently weren't meant to be a couple in the first place, let her go date/sleep with him. On the other hand, if you're a better overall fit together then stay together. Even if this other guy is so great, don't sell yourself short. After all, there must have been something special about you that got her to date and marry you.
Also holy shit man way to make me feel inadequate for being around your age and not even having a serious partner atm, let alone being married/together for 8 fucking years...
Onto to the topic now: I'm curious as to how she casually mentioned in a conversation that she'd like to have sex with another guy. I mean, I can only imagine one of the two following situations, which, in my opinion, influence greatly how you should respond.
First situation: she mentions it jokingly and casually, like: You: "Have you seen the guy next door, shirtless in winter ?" Her: "Yeah, he's so ribbed, I'd be curious to know what sex with a guy ribbed like that would be like... Anyway, how was your day sweetie ?" ... In that case, she's doesn't actually want to have sex with the guy, and if you come back to her saying "It's OK, I give you permission to do it", she might actually take it the wrong way and get angry at you... There's a difference between saying you want something, and actually wanting it and accepting its consequences.
Second Situation: she talked about it seriously. To you. Now you might be a very open couple, but I'd say this is still kinda insensitive from her. I mean the guy might be better looking than you are, but she doesn't have to rub your nose in it... Anyway, in that case, I'd say ask her what she means by having a serious conversation to you about wanting to have sex with another guy. Is she really asking for your authorization ? Is this some kind of ploy to make you jealous (and pay more attention to her) ? What's her angle ? Because you don't start a serious conversation on this sensitive topic without some kind of motive behind...
TL;DR: before granting her/not granting her permission to do it, make sure that this was actually what she asking for.
Now regarding if you should give her permission or not, personnally I wouldn't. For several reasons. First one being the one worded by Cosmic: "Suppose this goes down, she has a great night, and she returns…but with lingering desire for something more with your neighbor?". You don't want to take the risk of starting something between her and him. But that might just be my own insecurities talking. Second reason I'd refuse would be that this is opening the door to a lot of potential future questions/problems. What if in 6 months from now, she meets another guy even more muscular/good looking, will she ask for your permission again ? And 6 months after that ? One step further, since you gave her your approval that first time, will she supposes that you're still OK with this and actually go and do it without even asking you ? I'm definitely not an "open couple" kind of guy, so yeah, that's my take on it: NO WAY.
i like the above posts about if you asked her the same question. if her answer is yes, it can be interpreted in many ways. one, she really doesnt care so much about the relationship so she'll let you do w.e. the fuck you want and you two will have a very shaky relationship, or more like a "friends with benefits". if she truly does care, then i dont have a real answer to this.
if she says no, though, then shes just being selfish. but i by the way you talk about her, maybe that isnt the case.
completely agree with yoshi btw. his analysis of if she does have sex with your consent and the after-thoughts are extremely accurate. she may continue to attempt to pull strings and bend the rules more and more. and after this time, you might even continue to say yes, and before you know it, shes become a full blown slut banging every masculine/attractive man she meets. its a risk if you say yes.
but also, is saying no really a bad thing? would she think badly of you if you said no. again, it might she that shes a selfish person that just wants her motives to be fulfilled. there are many outcomes that come out of this. the safest option is just to say no. worst case scenario if no, shes a little upset, but the relationship is still good. or she goes full apeshit and divorces you, in which case she wasnt worth it.
saying yes, the worst possibilities are either she continues to have sex with him behind your back, or she will continue to ask for your consent to sex with other guys, completely destroying and disintegrating your relationship.
i think its a good thing that she brought it up to you. assuming that she's an honest person and not being manipulative or shitty in any way, just because she wants to investigate having an open relationship doesnt mean she's being selfish or that shes a slut. some people feel like no one person can fulfill their needs sexually and in turn, dont want to be unhappy committing themselves physically to one person. that doesn't mean that a single person cant fulfill their emotional/social/life/love needs though.
obviously, this is something that you really should know about yourself before you get married - but to her credit you guys got married at ~17 and nobody really fully knows themselves sexually or otherwise at that age. im 28 and i look back and see a lot of differences in all parts of my life from 3 years ago, and 3 years ago before that. people change a lot from their late teens throughout their 20s.
you should probably sit down with your wife and have a talk about her (and your) sexuality and where she wants to go from there. if she does identify this way, then again you'll have to consider if you can be genuinely happy for her (and not force yourself to those feelings) and also about reciprocity (if thats something that is important for you). you cant help how someone feels and you cant be angry at her for it. again it really really sucks to come to this point after you are married but its so very unlikely that this would be a one time thing so you should both really figure out where you want your relationship to go from here.
It like to know how she said it "i want to have sex with him" was she jokingly saying it, was she just making small talk. How random was it. Was she drunk etcetc.
Because if she was just joking and then you come up with her to say go for it, go and try and get it on with him you get one night. She might take offense to it etc and then start questioning "why is he letting me do this, has he done it before" etcetc and then the trust is gone in your relationship and it is doomed to fail.
Wow. I don't know you, or your wife, but that is one of the most disrespectful things I could imagine a wife doing to her husband. Doing it secretly would be more decent, imo. Leave her, imo.
On January 16 2015 20:30 Pandemona wrote: It like to know how she said it "i want to have sex with him" was she jokingly saying it, was she just making small talk. How random was it. Was she drunk etcetc.
Because if she was just joking and then you come up with her to say go for it, go and try and get it on with him you get one night. She might take offense to it etc and then start questioning "why is he letting me do this, has he done it before" etcetc and then the trust is gone in your relationship and it is doomed to fail.
She is basically yelling at you that she is fantasizing about sex that is different from that with you. You are married for a long time. Start mixing it up and dont let her touch him or vice versa. Recall her vows if need be. Wtf... i marry you and vow to have you and only you for my entire life in good or bad times, but then i want a different cock only for wednesdays?
She got into your head real good. CosmicSpiral put it neatly.
If this isn't fake your wife is sabotaging the relationship. Whatever, you got married too early. The fact that you would even consider letting her just goes to show your own lack of playing the field and missed opportunities and ability while still young. Live and learn.
Someone on reddit recently posted some shit about being with a guy for 8 years and he needed to propose before her dad died. I wrote this long shit:
Some of it applies here:
Gonna be brutally honest here because it sounds like you need a reality check. Here's the thing. Fuck your dad. He has nothing at all to do with your marriage and your boyfriend's decisions or your future.
If it's so important for you to be married now, why don't you propose?
Also, what is the rush to be married now? Who gives a shit if no one is going anywhere. It sounds like you are just injecting chaos or attempting to sabotage a relationship. Maybe the relationship has run it's course. That's fine. Move along. Don't fuck your life up by forcing a marriage that isn't meant to be. Maybe you can't accept that truth? Don't think of it as time invested, think of it as time wasted. Live and learn, not meant to be, and all those platitudes.
Couple of facts about men and marriage:
Firstly, marriage the younger you are has a higher chance of divorce in the western world.
There really isn't any point to marriage unless you are trying to have kids/start a family.
Settling down for a man is a huge deal. It's probably the biggest decision in a man's life. A man WILL NOT sign up for marriage unless he has all his shit in order. Financially secure, emotionally secure, job security, a home, etc. This is party because of the religious/cultural shame of divorce as well as the the lie to oneself if it's not for serious. And there is also the legal system's ridiculous rape of divorce/marriage and being weighted in favor of women.
Lastly, men in general have to work their natural drives out of their system. What I mean by this, is that men have an inherent drive for novelty &variety, which basically means sex/dating with many women. They do this for a couple of reasons. Testosterone drives it, the brains is wired for it, etc.
If a man feels like he still has opportunity or hasn't had a chance to play the field, that's a huge weight in the back of his mind. He literally cannot commit that seriously if he knows that he might act on that or wants that.
In a more positive note, you have to ask yourself then, well what's the purpose of marriage? The purpose is that marriage has some tax breaks for couples and families, as well as being healthier for relationships and satisfaction of life (aka happiness). So if not to make him happier, it's just stressing him.
TL;DR Push your chips all in or fold. it's on you, not him.
As another key point specific to your story, women are not men. They don't think or act this way. Sex is more of a bonding serious and intimate thing. Women typically won't/can't just sleep with a guy that don't want to be with emotionally and romantically. Sex isn;t just some drive, some urge to relieve, like it is for men. If a man is cheating, he's just being a dickhead and not containing his urges or doesnt care about his relationship. If a woman is cheating, it's more like she's done with the relationship and looking for a way out or a way to trade up as you aren't fulfilling her emotional needs. There is one possible caveat to this however, lots of women go through their 'bad boy' phase, generally in their teens to late twenties where they try and date damaged goods in hopes of training them or fixing them. This during a marriage though, doesn't negate what I said earlier.
You keep saying you want your wife to be happy, but that only works if its a two-way street. I don't know all the details, but if she literally just out of the blue (and completely seriously) told you, "hey I wanna have sex with this guy" - like, without bringing up the subject before, without figuring out softly whether you might be okay with some open relationship ideas etc, that's fucking awful of her, no other way to put it. You're saying that if you told her no, you'd be blackmailing her with the relationship - but she is doing pretty much the same thing, in a way that is both much bigger and more sneaky, nevermind pretty much completely against what you two agreed to when you first got married - I assume open relationship wasn't on the cards back then.
Like, if any of my girlfriends, past or current, brought something like this up, I'd pretty much just dump them on the spot unless they managed to convince me it was some kind of a stupid, misplaced joke. While I am totally okay with the idea of open relationships (when other people do it), it's not something I subscribe to and I know for a fact I wouldn't be happy with it, and there is nothing unfair, selfish or 'blackmailing' about me refusing it.
Also, the argument for sexual attraction being a strong force that you can't just discard is quite frankly bullshit. People have attractions to all kinds of shitty things, alcohol, drugs, eating five kilos of candy daily, hitting their kids when they're angry, whatever. That's the difference between humans and animals though - just because you're 'attracted' to something doesn't mean you're going to do it; it's called self-control. Saying that this is natural and not something that can be controlled is pretty much same as saying rape is okay.
If she's asking you for permission it's because she's already slept with him many times and now she's just trying to retroactively justify it in case she ever gets caught.
CosmicSpiral, I don't come to this website often, only when I'm looking for world class advice, so your reputation is lost on me. That said, while I deeply appreciate your thoughtful response, I think you are looking at things in a naive way--the same way I had for many years of my life. To keep it organized, I will do it inline style
"In a marriage, there is no such thing as “separate happiness”. Every party’s contentment with the bond may be influenced by outside factors (family, career, hobbies, depression, etc.), but most actions will impact the trust and affection of the relationship in some manner. I understand you may feel it’s noble to cede to your wife’s wants, as if denying them was an affront to her agency and right to happiness. But if we accept the idea that both parties are responsible for balancing individual and group fulfillment, then she has an equal obligation to consider how her act would impact your wants and needs. Suppose this goes down, she has a great night, and she returns…but with lingering desire for something more with your neighbor? It would undoubtedly hurt the marriage, but also your relationship with the Marine. How honest, forthcoming, and witty could he be, knowing that he is driving a wedge between two people he cares about?
I think you are looking at this through a lens that has been biased by tradition and social conventions since the day your cosmic feet hit terra firma.
I agree that her happiness is connected to my happiness. In fact, it is SO connected, that I am not willing to sentence her to a lifetime in an emotional cage so that I don't have to acknowledge that there are other guys out there that she feels like having sex with.
My question to you is: why should this negatively affect our relationship? If I was still doing my best impression of an ape, erecting a set of RULES for her to follow and blackmailing her with the relationship to follow them...or ELSE! Then I would definitely be affected.
But I realize that this guy has something I could NEVER give her. LIke I said in the OP, I'm NOT the handsome, ripped marine next door. I never will be. As long as she has that desire and truly believes acting on it will make her a happier person, that is a desire I can never fulfill. The question I have to answer is whether I should restrict her from potentially being a happier person simply so that I don't have to acknowledge my own shortcomings.
What I'm saying is: This wouldn't shatter my ego like it might shatter yours, from what I gather. In fact, if your self-worth is shattered because you have to accept the fact that you can't possibly fulfill EVERY SINGLE DESIRE your significant other has...then you are living in a dream world. You CAN'T be everything for everyone, all the time. And it's not your job to be.
Your job, at least what it sounds like you think your job is, is to try to justify the set of rules you put in place for the other person; the bars on this emotional cage. What I want from this relationship isn't affected by her doing what she truly thinks will make her happier, so why stop her?
"However, I’d rather not focus on the dilemma in itself. Based on your wording, I feel like this is slight misdirection. If you were genuinely confused on the topic and didn't know how to approach it at all, this blog would be considerably shorter. Instead, you passively argue in favor of the cuckolding. You compare yourself to your neighbor’s physical grandiosity and find yourself wanting; you praise your wife in distinctly non-sexual terms but condone a possible decision rooted purely in lust; you talk about being wholly dedicated to your wife’s happiness, but fail to consider that any unhappiness on your part will affect the marriage indirectly. You offer no compelling argument in favor of the faithful opinion. It already sounds like you've made up your mind, so why ask TL netizens for advice when you’re not-so-subtly challenging them to defy your logic?"
I am an agnostic on every issue of substance I can think of. To pretend as though every person that asks for advice doesn't have past experiences that shade where they think the answer will take them, is wrong. I'm confused. That's the bottom line, and I'm looking for a wise person to try to set me straight again.
If you're so content with your wife being a whore then why are you even asking for opinions here? It also sounds like you might be a closet bisexual because you talk about this other guy as if you wanted to sleep with him yourself.
Also, for what it's worth,
she is a wonderful nurturer and caregiver for our future children
I assure you a woman that wants to sleep around on her husband is pretty much the opposite of a good mother.
You should probably seek professional help from a licensed marriage therapist instead of using a video game forum on the internet.
If you're so content with your wife being a whore then why are you even asking for opinions here?
I, unlike you, understand that I've had a limited set of experiences in my life and don't masquerade around as though I already know everything. I would consider myself to be agnostic on this issue and am looking for someone to help me get back to the mental place where wise people like you reside. I just am interesting in ACTUALLY knowing, rather than just pretending I know.
It also sounds like you might be a closet bisexual because you talk about this other guy as if you wanted to sleep with him yourself.
Your insecurity shines through in everything that you say. I was painting a picture for the reader that the guy was the quintessential alpha male that women are biologically programmed to be attracted to. The fact you can't even acknowledge when another guy has qualities that traditionally have been attractive to the opposite sex without feeling gay is a testament to how insecure you are at your core. In your fucked up brain, me saying that Brad Pitt is attractive to females is tantamount to wanting his cock in my mouth.
I assure you a woman that wants to sleep around on her husband is pretty much the opposite of a good mother.
Are you under the impression that no woman has ever had an affair and still been an incredible mother? Are you under the impression no woman has ever WANTED to sleep around on her husband, not acted on the desire and still been a great mother?
Sexual exclusivity has NOTHING to do with being a good mother. In fact, I explicitly talk about her qualities of being nurturing and being a good care-giver...both of which are not affected in the slightest bit if she has sex with another guy. You, digging into these brilliant extreme opinions in your mind, are going to say: "Well, how is it good for the kids if she goes around sleeping all around town like a whore? What kind of example is that to set for the kids??"
So are you saying as long as she keeps it a secret from the kids then it's OK? Of course you aren't. Which just goes to show that it, in fact, is NOT sexual exclusivity that fuels that opinion, but actually your own animalistic insecurities that you desperately spend every day defending--never looking at them honestly.
You should probably seek professional help from a licensed marriage therapist instead of using a video game forum on the internet.
Maybe I need a marriage counselor, but you need a house that isn't made out of glass.
largely agree with cosmicspiral. first, while this is new for you, if you decide to go with it, trends like this tend to not be a one time thing. she may only want to sleep with him once, but maybe a year or three down the road she'll meet someone else and get that same lust again. if you can find a way to be genuinely happy in letting her sleep with another man, then i dont think theres much to talk about. you should be careful about wanting to force yourself to be happy about it though because those are very much not the same things - and the latter will hurt at some point.
So what? I love her. I want her to be as happy as possible. Let's say she finds out a year from now that there is an emotional void that she truly thinks will be filled by being with someone else. Why wouldn't I want her to have that better life? Why would I want her to live a second-rate existence with me when she can be happier with someone else?
My decisions in a relationship shouldn't be about KEEPING IT GOING at all costs. If she will be happier with someone else, why should that bother me? I'm an advocate of honesty. Whether she acts on these desires or not, she still has an emotional void in need of filling. I would much rather it comes out now in this way than it manifesting itself somehow 20 years from now. Ultimately, maybe we just aren't compatible. And if we aren't...WHY WOULD I WANT TO WASTE TIME AND STAY WITH HER?
if its the former and you decide that you are ok with her sleeping with another man, you should consider bringing up the idea of reciprocity before it happens so she knows whats on the table. it sounds like you have done a lot of thinking about what will effect her happiness - i hope that shes putting just as much effort into how her actions will effect yours. if the idea of you being with someone else is unconscionable to her then maybe that will lead the conversation somewhere else.
I'm not doing this just so that I can get something out of it down the line. This isn't some sort of twisted bargain. I don't let her do the things she does simply because I get to do the same thing at some future date...In fact, I'd like to remove that "let her do things" from my vocabulary all together. Who am I to "let" her do anything? She isn't my property.
By the way, it's fascinating that we don't restrict our significant others from doing CERTAIN things. We don't restrict them from going to Disneyland...or eating ice cream...or going to the mall with their friends...or anything like that. No...there is this very specific set of behaviors that we have RULES for them to follow.
My point is, going to Disneyland makes my wife happy. I don't restrict her from going. I don't say that she can go...BUT ONLY if I can go six months from now. No, I want her to be happy, so why wouldn't I let her go?
She's gonna do it regardless of your permission so you've just got to decide whether you're cool with it or not.
Yes. And whether she does it or not, that doesn't change the fact that she has a desire to do it. Like you said, I am left with a choice: Live in an honest relationship or a dishonest one where she still believes that sleeping around is going to bring her long term happiness, but I am blackmailing her into submission.
What kind of masochistic person would I have to be? ESPECIALLY to the supposed, "love of my life"? Isn't it a GOOD thing if I see her for who she truly is, rather than just an act she is putting on because she doesn't want to get dumped? Ultimately at the root of all this is the idea of short term gratification being a catalyst to happiness, vs longterm.
If this mindset doesn't present itself in this case, bullet dodged. But that bullet is still in her mind swimming around and it will come back in some other form. Why not have a real discussion about what we both want from our relationship?
First one being the one worded by Cosmic: "Suppose this goes down, she has a great night, and she returns…but with lingering desire for something more with your neighbor?". You don't want to take the risk of starting something between her and him. But that might just be my own insecurities talking.
I think it is. Just listen to yourself, "you don't want to take the risk of starting something between her and him."
What? Take the risk of her living what she feels is a happier life without me? How could I live with myself if I let that happen?
Oh yeah, I know how. I would realize that she is the type of person that equates fleeting sexual pleasures with long term happiness and that she feels happier in her new relationship. Keep in mind, this isn't my girlfriend in the seventh grade...this is the woman I am married to who I love deeply and want to be as happy as possible, even if it's not with me.
My decisions in this relationship shouldn't be about stringing this along as long as I possibly can.
Today I learned that going to Disneyland and having extramarital sex are the same thing.
You didn't learn anything today. In fact, the opposite happened. You spend every second of your life digging in to what you already think you know. If you ever want to look at your thoughts honestly you will come back to the thread and re-read what I wrote.
To me and my fiance, sex is an intimate act where we open up to each other and fully trust each other. To do that with someone else is the worst betrayal possible. So, if my wife even said that, let alone actually did that, I may very well boot her ass out the door right there. It's not about insecurity, but what our relationship is about and the trust between each other.
Why do you need to trust her about this very selective group of activities? It's funny how no one ever thinks about why they restrict their significant other from CERTAIN things, but not from other things.
As I said in another reply: You don't restrict her from going to Disneyland. You don't restrict her from pumpkin pie, or from going out to the movies with her friends. You restrict her from this VERY SELECTIVE collection of activities. Why is that?
Hint: It's because you are insecure. We all are. You are terrified she is going to find someone that she likes more than you and leave you for them. So to prevent this from happening you lock her in a cage and make her pretend as though the outside world doesn't exist.
On January 17 2015 01:41 Salazarz wrote: Also, the argument for sexual attraction being a strong force that you can't just discard is quite frankly bullshit. People have attractions to all kinds of shitty things, alcohol, drugs, eating five kilos of candy daily, hitting their kids when they're angry, whatever. That's the difference between humans and animals though - just because you're 'attracted' to something doesn't mean you're going to do it; it's called self-control. Saying that this is natural and not something that can be controlled is pretty much same as saying rape is okay.
I think this is a very good point. If you get angry and feel like hitting your wife, should she let you do it because it's what you want to do?
On January 17 2015 02:14 KING CHARLIE :D wrote: I think you are looking at this through a lens that has been biased by tradition and social conventions since the day your cosmic feet hit terra firma.
I agree that her happiness is connected to my happiness. In fact, it is SO connected, that I am not willing to sentence her to a lifetime in an emotional cage so that I don't have to acknowledge that there are other guys out there that she feels like having sex with.
My question to you is: why should this negatively affect our relationship? If I was still doing my best impression of an ape, erecting a set of RULES for her to follow and blackmailing her with the relationship to follow them...or ELSE! Then I would definitely be affected.
But I realize that this guy has something I could NEVER give her. LIke I said in the OP, I'm NOT the handsome, ripped marine next door. I never will be. As long as she has that desire and truly believes acting on it will make her a happier person, that is a desire I can never fulfill. The question I have to answer is whether I should restrict her from potentially being a happier person simply so that I don't have to acknowledge my own shortcomings.
What I'm saying is: This wouldn't shatter my ego like it might shatter yours, from what I gather. In fact, if your self-worth is shattered because you have to accept the fact that you can't possibly fulfill EVERY SINGLE DESIRE your significant other has...then you are living in a dream world. You CAN'T be everything for everyone, all the time. And it's not your job to be.
Your job, at least what it sounds like you think your job is, is to try to justify the set of rules you put in place for the other person; the bars on this emotional cage. What I want from this relationship isn't affected by her doing what she truly thinks will make her happier, so why stop her?
I can't explain it logically, but your words give me a very strong impression of self hatred and wanting to punish yourself. In a way, you will be using your wife as an instrument in this, and I believe you will resent her for it down the line. Basically she will be helping you to validate your own low self opinion. I think that out of self defense you've twisted this around to be a sacrifice made out of strength, when in reality it seems more like resignation and despair.
Your language is telling... a marriage with you is an "emotional cage", and asking someone to honor that marriage is "blackmail". This doesn't sound like a healthy self image at all. And it seems odd to me, that if you despise social conventions so much, that you would choose to remain married in the first place. Things just don't add up here.
There are base emotions that a human has that will affect him no matter how much he tries to 'reason' against it. Unless I am mistaken, you guys got married at 17 with monogamy clearly in mind. Now there is some outside factor that may or may not have ever been around before, and your wife, unless I am mistaken, wants to change the fundamental tenants of your entire relationship.
Instead of going on some philosophical tangents about marriage/emotion/shit that your base emotions will completely throw out the window when shit actually goes down, TRULY ask yourself really simple, base questions: 1) You have looked at other attractive women, maybe even lustfully. Assuming you and an attractive woman hit it off, would you ask your wife for permission to have one-night of meaningless sex?
ex. I wouldn't. Because I'm considerate of the implications of the act of asking that question aloud has to my best friend on the entire planet. If I'm happy, why the fuck would I threaten that happiness even slightly for a fleeting moment?
2) You say yes. Your wife and the guy have amazing sex. Now your wife and you have sex and something is different. Good or bad, are you prepared for the consequences? I can't think of a single human being on the planet that wouldn't have some inner turmoil knowing his wife has willingly fucked (I believe this term is appropriate) another dude just for some good feels.
ex. This is where I feel like you aren't really considering the reality of your base emotions. You will be fucked up in some way or another after this. If you aren't, you are probably the 1%. Probability says you aren't. If your wife is a decent human being she will pick up on this and she will be fucked up that she even introduced such a rift in your relationship.
3) If you somehow 'reason' yourself into thinking our relationship with your wife/your life in general will improve after this, consider the possible implications this may have on the guy. What if he actually has a history of mental illness and develops an infatuation with your wife? This is a human being and you're objectifying the shit of him as a piece of meat.
i.e. How cool can a guy be knowing that he's having sex with another dude's wife i.e. pure inconsiderate YOLO mentality?
I don't know. Alot of people in this thread have given you sound advice, essentially putting up a dozen roadsigns telling you that this, in all probability, will fuck up your relationship (and from the sound of it your life) and you're reasoning it all away like your relationship is something special. If you like gambling with your marriage then be my guest, and good luck.
Today I learned that going to Disneyland and having extramarital sex are the same thing.
You didn't learn anything today. In fact, the opposite happened. You spend every second of your life digging in to what you already think you know. If you ever want to look at your thoughts honestly you will come back to the thread and re-read what I wrote.
I'm sure I'll read it in a few months when you release your memoirs after turning into a serial rapist/killer when your wife leaves you for the army guy.
Why do I get the feeling that this guy isn't actually asking for advice and instead just wants to show how "enlightened" he is, as if his "epiphany" is somehow new and will shower us with wisdom that will break us out of our cultural cages.
Listen, you didn't discover anything new here. If anything your wife got lucky as hell that you have this mindset (which sounds a bit like you want to be a matyr and die for her sins). You have to realize that you are throwing arguments at people giving you advice but you are failing to realize that everyone will have their own definitions of what a relationship is and that is OK. Whatever works for you works for you, people are just cautioning you about the obvious potential problems that this can cause. You shouldn't argue back as if you have discovered some true path to relationship happiness because its so variable as to how people achieve this.
From most peoples perspectives it seems like you are giving it all way from what you have presented here. As if your wants and needs are basically second to hers and if she makes a request then you have to 100% grant it. Reality check, its two way street and you keep saying "Oh I will be blackmailing her if I don't let her" but as was said before you can easily flip that and say that is exactly what she is doing. She has approached you about a topic that will make a fundamental change in the relationship from what it originally was and if you are uncomfortable with this then that is perfectly valid to say no and be guilt free because YOUR needs matter just as much as hers and if she can't respect that and fucks him anyways than she isn't a good partner.
That being said, you seem to be conceptually fine with it so then its all good. Like I said earlier, a relationship between two people can be pretty much anything and as long as both of you are on the same page then its all good. Just keep in mind some of the cautions that people have raised, because you wouldn't be the first person to introduce a new sexual dynamic into a relationship then regret it later.
just let her do it, seems like you can handle it emotionally and rationally there isn't really any reason not to. (assuming you can handle it emotionally. if you can't, then obviously that makes it rational not to.)
uhhh theres a reason marriage is between two individuals and not 3, 4, 5 or N. It's because its overly complicated and there will be conflict. The fact that you have to ask means you're not ready for something like this.
lmao i haven't posted in years but i had to sign in for this. bru, she's just shootin the shit. she doesn't actually want to have sex with him, if u don't believe me then ask her. If she wanted to actually fuck him she wouldn't have told you! This is how your conversation will go:
"hey, do you actually want to go fuck that dude?"
"lol wut"
edit: like i'm going back through these posts and im just like O.o and you've been together for 8 yrs, like why the fuk are u talking to us and not her lol. u know what they say, communication builds relationships
Dude I'm a married man, who's been faithful always... I'm 29, have a 3 year old son and I freakkin love my life.
To be honest I started reading this thread, and somewhere in the middle, couldn't take it and checked the cross box. I left the post specifically because I started imagining what the same may do to me. And I came back later, because I respected the fact that you put this out on the TL forum, and I myself in your shoes would NEED advice at a strange point like this.
Please don't sell yourself short, or think or yourself lesser than anyone else in the world. I know you only speak about the physical attributes about the guy, but then there are somethings equally if not more important than the other. It may be an option to go out there, join a gym and one day not too far away you can be the kind of guy your wife craves also. Very possible... please watch this... (a weight training program I'm currently following)
Or just for take a little time to see the body transformations at bodybuilding.com. Its another community that I'm a part of and is very legit. Go ask the same question on that forum and just see how much motivation they can give you. I'm not saying its easy, but nothing in this world worth anything is.
I don't think she's only looking for your permission to carry out this sexual desire of hers, I think that somewhere inside of her she's also doubting this being a good idea. I know some people are okay with open relationships, but If you were fine with this arrangement in any way you wouldn't be discussing this on TL anyways.
Just my humble opinion. Don't do it. The kind of person I'm seeing you to be is not open to these kind of relationships, and you're too caring to care about yourself right now, and may even allow this to open doors for more of the same later in life. Not a good idea, not a healthy marriage.
nyone bother to ask the marine for his opinion? Does he even want to plow your wife? Maybe he is gay and more interested in you..
Anyway if she would be my wife I would tell her that if she wants some excitement she can take her ass to the movies. Loyalty is extremely important to me and I would never be able to accept my wife or gf to get some strange.
I get your point though. True love is selfless right? Still I would say that setting boundaries is ok. If she doesn't wsnt you to grt high on crack in the living room (just a guess) you can also ask of her to control those urges. I mean seriously would it make her life really that much better to indulge on those kinds of wims?
What's next? "I really want to have a baby from the marine?" He could give her something you couldn't ever, and surely you don't want to lock her up in her own marriage now, do you? Or maybe she wants go visit her parents with him, instead of you. She would be much happier to show her parents what a nice guy she's with all the time. Boy, isn't she lucky to have such an openminded and understanding husband..
well, its a tough question difficult to answer; you have to consider some factors;
- whats the status of your relationship right now; are you two arguing frequently and such - do you feel you're insecure? is she bothered by something with you lately or something - after 8 years, do you two still maintain a healthy sex life like when you started the relationship (not as in frequency, but is it still exhilarating or did it end up being a routine - if the latter, find out why, you might want to fix that) - if she does this, will you feel pressured? mentally speaking - will you accept it or will you end up not being able to sleep for weeks out of fear of losing her and such. - would she accept knowing you do the same with another woman? definitely ask her this - the thought of that might scare her, or you two might end up spicing things up frequently, haha
whatever you do, be very careful how you handle this. dont let your wife believe youre narrowminded or something (dont react violently to her suggestion), but also dont give the impression that you're desperately trying to salvage your marriage, she wont like that either. She wants to feel a strong person near her, so this is a good chance to prove you are that.
although its a difficult question that your wife asks, its a good opportunity for you, that you can greatly turn around to your advantage, to actually strengthen your relationship (if thats what you aim for).
How do you expect a random internet forum to answer the question of if you'll be ok with a (semi) open marriage? You have to answer that yourself. You seem sure of being ok with it. So think it over again and make a choice. If you can't see the difference between sex and Disneyland then I think you have some thinking to do. If you really need someone to spell out the meaning of sex in a relationship then I'm sure someone will bite, but I think you can probably find better advice elsewhere.
There is no objective morality that makes either choice wrong. People on this forum self-reflect and opine based on how they'd react, or imagine how they'd react. No one knows you well enough to inform you as to how you'd take it.
On January 17 2015 03:34 KING CHARLIE :D wrote: + Show Spoiler +
largely agree with cosmicspiral. first, while this is new for you, if you decide to go with it, trends like this tend to not be a one time thing. she may only want to sleep with him once, but maybe a year or three down the road she'll meet someone else and get that same lust again. if you can find a way to be genuinely happy in letting her sleep with another man, then i dont think theres much to talk about. you should be careful about wanting to force yourself to be happy about it though because those are very much not the same things - and the latter will hurt at some point.
So what? I love her. I want her to be as happy as possible. Let's say she finds out a year from now that there is an emotional void that she truly thinks will be filled by being with someone else. Why wouldn't I want her to have that better life? Why would I want her to live a second-rate existence with me when she can be happier with someone else?
My decisions in a relationship shouldn't be about KEEPING IT GOING at all costs. If she will be happier with someone else, why should that bother me? I'm an advocate of honesty. Whether she acts on these desires or not, she still has an emotional void in need of filling. I would much rather it comes out now in this way than it manifesting itself somehow 20 years from now. Ultimately, maybe we just aren't compatible. And if we aren't...WHY WOULD I WANT TO WASTE TIME AND STAY WITH HER?
if its the former and you decide that you are ok with her sleeping with another man, you should consider bringing up the idea of reciprocity before it happens so she knows whats on the table. it sounds like you have done a lot of thinking about what will effect her happiness - i hope that shes putting just as much effort into how her actions will effect yours. if the idea of you being with someone else is unconscionable to her then maybe that will lead the conversation somewhere else.
I'm not doing this just so that I can get something out of it down the line. This isn't some sort of twisted bargain. I don't let her do the things she does simply because I get to do the same thing at some future date...In fact, I'd like to remove that "let her do things" from my vocabulary all together. Who am I to "let" her do anything? She isn't my property.
By the way, it's fascinating that we don't restrict our significant others from doing CERTAIN things. We don't restrict them from going to Disneyland...or eating ice cream...or going to the mall with their friends...or anything like that. No...there is this very specific set of behaviors that we have RULES for them to follow.
My point is, going to Disneyland makes my wife happy. I don't restrict her from going. I don't say that she can go...BUT ONLY if I can go six months from now. No, I want her to be happy, so why wouldn't I let her go?
i didnt say you had to - just something to think about. obviously, if this is something that will make both of you happy, and it not happening will make both of you unhappy then it should be pretty easy to figure out what to do. i know a few couples who have gone for it and it ruined their relationship, and i know fewer couples still that went for it and are much happier. the reason arrangements like these are uncommon is because they are emotionally incredibly trying. but if you are sure you can handle it then obvo just got for it and gl
No way I'd be able to handle it emotionally with my wife, but we are not you guys. It does seem like something that she would want to do though considering you guys have been together since you were...17 or longer? Have you two had sex with other people? Maybe it's just one of those things where she is just interested in something that isn't the same old?
First of all, I agree with hoot00's graphs, in your particular case. That said, it sounds like you're serious in even considering the question.
How far are you willing to take this? How far are you willing to allow her questionable behavior to do what you think will make her a happier person? If Marine enters the relationship full time after she sexes him, if she hasn't already, are you ok with him being a fulltime member of the marriage? Is it ok if he gets afternoons and you get evenings, is it ok if he has a girlfriend that he wants to bring your wife in with for a threesome? Does your wife have to keep him happy? If his father visits and wants to sex your wife, do you let him if it will make the Marine happy? (Because keeping the Marine happy would make your wife happy.)
Morals, as I understand them, exist to further the happiness and wellbeing of the populace. This particular subject is not a moral debate, but a judgement on your part as what you think is the best option to increase the happiness and wellbeing of the populace. One could argue that monogamy is immoral. One could also argue that polygamy is immoral. That doesn't really matter here, because it's largely subjective, aside from possible health complications.
Would it make you happy to allow her to do everything she wants to do to fulfill her sexual desires? What if she wanted you to jump off a bridge, just once, because she happens to secretly be a sadist and wants to see you suffer as much as possible, because that makes her happy? Would you do it?
In life, you should seek to reduce personal suffering, so that you are in a better position to help others reduce their own suffering. Not before. There is one important caveat, which I will call the "Lorem ipsum" caveat, but for that I point you to the translation of the popular website placeholder text. Lorem ipsum (guide to personal suffering)
If you go through with it tell her to make a TL account and submit a battle report, if she doesn't know about battle reports have her follow this template:
Map Bedroom/Couch/Fur rug in front of a crackling fire/Steamy shower, if it lasted all day and all maps were covered make each map have its own section (highly likely due to stud factor).
Early Game What were her plans going into the map, scouting (what were they wearing, along with description of body), who initiated first contact and was it full on aggro or gentle probing followed by progression into mid game. Also how wet was she prior to first contact, I'd normally go for "how wet were your panties" but since getting out of early game is a forgone conclusion (stud factor again) forgoing the underwear would be a viable tactic for powering through the early game.
Mid Game Map positioning, contact positioning and if there was tactical use of map structures describe those when they're used, follow those descriptions with positions and type of contact similar to early game, is he a gentle, affectionate lover or is he going deep with rough aggro tactics? Also, how much work did she put in? Tell her she should put in some work to avoid a boring mid game if she normally doesn't put in much effort.
Also dick size should be noted in the mid game, use inches/cm for length (whatever she's most comfortable with) and for girth use how many fingers it would be equivalent to. You only need to note it once but it's not uncommon for stud dick size to be referenced repeatedly.
Late Game The mountain has been climbed (on multiple levels) and everything is reaching its peak, all that is needed for this section is the final positions in the map and the finishing blow that's used before he slams the GG button. Any other descriptors, such as "earth shattering", "mind numbing", "overloaded" are usually put here.
Post Game Clean up, did she leave a snail trail, did she make it to the shower, or did he slam the GG button somewhere else? Words exchanged when exiting, was he super bm or a gentleman? When's it going to happen again? Birth control tactics for the next battle report?
Final Stats: - # of orgasms for both teams - Duration (of entire game and orgasms if you want) - List of positions used - Dick size (use metrics discussed above) - # of pussy farts - size of finishing loads (descriptors are supposed to be used, you don't have to have a graduated cylinder on hand)
GL HF
Also pictures help make battle reports more readable instead of walls of text like this, you don't need to take a camera with you just split up text blocks with dick pics if you want (TL probly won't mind) and it'll still get a massive view count.
You've been married for 8 years, aren't in an open relationship and are definitely not swingers; romcoms and sitcoms have figured out the likely outcome of "it's only sex". If you're emotionally up for it then it's fine but if you're not then she should be okay with not banging the neighbor if she cares about you as much as you care about her.
PS being fit doesn't have shit on the dedication it takes to be married for 8years, so if you want to have the fit image you can do it in my opinion. PPS I demand a blog update on conclusion of events!! (who doesn't like drama)
If you go through with it tell her to make a TL account and submit a battle report, if she doesn't know about battle reports have her follow this template:
Map Bedroom/Couch/Fur rug in front of a crackling fire/Steamy shower, if it lasted all day and all maps were covered make each map have its own section (highly likely due to stud factor).
Early Game What were her plans going into the map, scouting (what were they wearing, along with description of body), who initiated first contact and was it full on aggro or gentle probing followed by progression into mid game. Also how wet was she prior to first contact, I'd normally go for "how wet were your panties" but since getting out of early game is a forgone conclusion (stud factor again) forgoing the underwear would be a viable tactic for powering through the early game.
Mid Game Map positioning, contact positioning and if there was tactical use of map structures describe those when they're used, follow those descriptions with positions and type of contact similar to early game, is he a gentle, affectionate lover or is he going deep with rough aggro tactics? Also, how much work did she put in? Tell her she should put in some work to avoid a boring mid game if she normally doesn't put in much effort.
Also dick size should be noted in the mid game, use inches/cm for length (whatever she's most comfortable with) and for girth use how many fingers it would be equivalent to. You only need to note it once but it's not uncommon for stud dick size to be referenced repeatedly.
Late Game The mountain has been climbed (on multiple levels) and everything is reaching its peak, all that is needed for this section is the final positions in the map and the finishing blow that's used before he slams the GG button. Any other descriptors, such as "earth shattering", "mind numbing", "overloaded" are usually put here.
Post Game Clean up, did she leave a snail trail, did she make it to the shower, or did he slam the GG button somewhere else? Words exchanged when exiting, was he super bm or a gentleman? When's it going to happen again? Birth control tactics for the next battle report?
Final Stats: - # of orgasms for both teams - Duration (of entire game and orgasms if you want) - List of positions used - Dick size (use metrics discussed above) - # of pussy farts - size of finishing loads (descriptors are supposed to be used, you don't have to have a graduated cylinder on hand)
GL HF
Also pictures help make battle reports more readable instead of walls of text like this, you don't need to take a camera with you just split up text blocks with dick pics if you want (TL probly won't mind) and it'll still get a massive view count.
You've been married for 8 years, aren't in an open relationship and are definitely not swingers; romcoms and sitcoms have figured out the likely outcome of "it's only sex". If you're emotionally up for it then it's fine but if you're not then she should be okay with not banging the neighbor if she cares about you as much as you care about her.
PS being fit doesn't have shit on the dedication it takes to be married for 8years, so if you want to have the fit image you can do it in my opinion. PPS I demand a blog update on conclusion of events!! (who doesn't like drama)
First of all, I would like to thank Lichter for calling on TL's Dark Templar Knight to cut through the evil of this OP with his warp-blade of justice. Cosmicspiral is not the hero TL wants, but he is the one we need.
Here's my recommendation: TELL HER YOU WILL LET HER FUCK HIM ONLY IF YOU GET TO FUCK HIM AS WELL. THEN WHEN IT'S YOUR TURN, REALLY LAY INTO HIM AND SEND THE FEAR OF GOD INTO HIS ANUS.
On January 17 2015 10:10 ninazerg wrote: First of all, I would like to thank Lichter for calling on TL's Dark Templar Knight to cut through the evil of this OP with his warp-blade of justice. Cosmicspiral is not the hero TL wants, but he is the one we need.
Here's my recommendation: TELL HER YOU WILL LET HER FUCK HIM ONLY IF YOU GET TO FUCK HIM AS WELL. THEN WHEN IT'S YOUR TURN, REALLY LAY INTO HIM AND SEND THE FEAR OF GOD INTO HIS ANUS.
Instead of going on some philosophical tangents about marriage/emotion/shit that your base emotions will completely throw out the window when shit actually goes down, TRULY ask yourself really simple, base questions: 1) You have looked at other attractive women, maybe even lustfully. Assuming you and an attractive woman hit it off, would you ask your wife for permission to have one-night of meaningless sex?
ex. I wouldn't. Because I'm considerate of the implications of the act of asking that question aloud has to my best friend on the entire planet. If I'm happy, why the fuck would I threaten that happiness even slightly for a fleeting moment?
I wouldn't either. Even if I had ZERO restrictions in place from my wife, I still wouldn't be with anyone else. I think we both think this way because we are wise enough to understand the value of short vs. long term gratification. But that is addressing YOUR ACTIONS and what YOU think would be prudent...not what we're actually talking about... which is your set of expectations for HER behavior.
2) You say yes. Your wife and the guy have amazing sex. Now your wife and you have sex and something is different. Good or bad, are you prepared for the consequences? I can't think of a single human being on the planet that wouldn't have some inner turmoil knowing his wife has willingly fucked (I believe this term is appropriate) another dude just for some good feels.
I understand your biases, but I think they are byproducts of society telling you that your masculinity and worth is somehow connected to whether you can keep your wife sexually exclusive.
If someone raped your wife or girlfriend, I don't think you would have inner turmoil about your masculinity. My point is: mine is a unique situation in that this is a desire of hers that I can NEVER fulfill, simply by virtue of my genetics. Why should that make ME feel bad about myself? Do you feel bad that I'm not attracted to you because you're a man? You were born that way and have no control over it...why would you feel bad about that. This is how I feel about her wanting something outside of my genetic limitations.
If it doesn't affect the reasons why I'm in this relationship in the first place, then why shouldn't I let her? Which leads me to your next point:
This is where I feel like you aren't really considering the reality of your base emotions. You will be fucked up in some way or another after this. If you aren't, you are probably the 1%.
I totally agree that 99% of people are in a relationship for the benefits of sexual and emotional exclusivity. That doesn't make them correct. The fact that they need it ultimately is based on insecurity, albeit an extremely common one. They are terrified their wife will like this other guy more than them and leave them. I, personally, am not willing to sentence the woman I love to a lifetime of going without something she thinks will make her happy just so that I don't have to look at myself in the mirror honestly.
3) If you somehow 'reason' yourself into thinking our relationship with your wife/your life in general will improve after this, consider the possible implications this may have on the guy. What if he actually has a history of mental illness and develops an infatuation with your wife? This is a human being and you're objectifying the shit of him as a piece of meat.
The rest of your post is a lot more intelligent than this argument. Something tells me you debated whether you should throw it in or not.
If you like gambling with your marriage then be my guest, and good luck.
What you call gambling I call being honest. I shouldn't be making decisions within the framework of this relationship only considering how to keep it going as long as possible. There are more important things than that. Like her happiness and my happiness.
My happiness isn't tied to the delusion that I am the most attractive guy in the world and that I can fulfill every desire my wife could ever have. Ultimately, what you call a "gamble" is my wife telling me how she really feels. When I make a commitment for the rest of my life, I don't want to be working with imperfect information.
Why do I get the feeling that this guy isn't actually asking for advice and instead just wants to show how "enlightened" he is, as if his "epiphany" is somehow new and will shower us with wisdom that will break us out of our cultural cages.
I could be doing this for a lot of reasons. I could be doing this because I want to assert my superiority over everyone and show you how enlightened I am. If I was more altruistic, I could be doing it to get people to think about their own biases. I guess you'll have to decide for yourself which one of these it is.
Something tells me you'll pick the one that dehumanizes me the most and paints me in a negative light; that way you don't need to actually consider what I'm saying as a source.
You have to realize that you are throwing arguments at people giving you advice but you are failing to realize that everyone will have their own definitions of what a relationship is and that is OK. Whatever works for you works for you, people are just cautioning you about the obvious potential problems that this can cause.
Just because people have differing opinions doesn't make both of them equally valid. One could be easily based in mindless tradition. But I don't want to offend you if you're religious.
And just because something works doesn't make it morally justifiable.
Just keep in mind some of the cautions that people have raised, because you wouldn't be the first person to introduce a new sexual dynamic into a relationship then regret it later.
The more I read these replies the more I realize how common of an assumption this is.
What will I do if I let my wife fuck the neighbor and then she realizes that she is happier with him than with me? Oh yeah, she will be happier! Well, I can't let THAT happen! I have to string this along as long as possible...force her to repress all of those desires that she has!
"Reality Check" (cause you like that phrase) If my wife is the kind of person that TRULY thinks that having sex with a different guy every night of the week will bring her happiness, then whether I restrict her to or not, she still has those desires.
Why wouldn't I want her to have been honest with me all along? I think this dishonesty is what keeps people with the wrong people for years of their life.
Dude I'm a married man, who's been faithful always... I'm 29, have a 3 year old son and I freakkin love my life.
To be honest I started reading this thread, and somewhere in the middle, couldn't take it and checked the cross box. I left the post specifically because I started imagining what the same may do to me. And I came back later, because I respected the fact that you put this out on the TL forum, and I myself in your shoes would NEED advice at a strange point like this.
Please don't sell yourself short, or think or yourself lesser than anyone else in the world. I know you only speak about the physical attributes about the guy, but then there are somethings equally if not more important than the other. It may be an option to go out there, join a gym and one day not too far away you can be the kind of guy your wife craves also. Very possible... please watch this... (a weight training program I'm currently following)
You're a compassionate person, but I think it is misdirected. I'm not asking these questions because I don't think I am WORTHY of the sexually exclusive relationship that you have. I think I was born into a world where I looked around me and got an initial idea of how a relationship should be.
I looked at my parents and saw how they coexisted. They had expectations and rules for each other surrounding what they could do with potential threats to the relationship. They got mad at each other when they breached them.
I went to my friends' houses and saw how their parents did things and it reinforced what I thought I knew. I had a confirmation bias.
When I was 14 and started dating I did my best impression of this framework and, (surprise, surprise) all the girls I dated did too.
I think for the first time in my life I'm looking at how I operate in a relationship not in terms of tradition or momentum based on what I've seen around me, but based on how to treat people properly and not like they're a piece of my property.
What's next? "I really want to have a baby from the marine?" He could give her something you couldn't ever, and surely you don't want to lock her up in her own marriage now, do you? Or maybe she wants go visit her parents with him, instead of you. She would be much happier to show her parents what a nice guy she's with all the time. Boy, isn't she lucky to have such an openminded and understanding husband..
FINALLY! Someone that took an argument of mine and pointed out how an extreme case would be ridiculous! You must have been on the debate team, my friend. I'm not being sarcastic...most of the replies have been people telling me that I'm an idiot for being able to accept that I'm not perfect and my wife might want to be with someone else. You could even think of more extreme examples. For example, what if it would make my wife happy if I was her personal slave. She gets to go out fucking and dating anyone she wants, but I have to make her meals, clean the house, and financially support this life of hers.
Once we get to this point of the conversation, it comes down to this: Her happiness is very important to me, but obviously not my PARAMOUNT concern. My happiness is my paramount concern. No matter how selfless someone is, there is a breaking point. There is a self-interested reason why I got into this relationship in the first place. Whether I break up with her comes down to whether something she did is destructive to the reasons why I'm in the relationship.
What I am arguing is that her having sex with this guy is NOT destructive to the reasons why I'm in this relationship, but I can think of a lot of things that WOULD be destructive. Me being her personal slave is one of them.
The fact is, for 99% of people, her having sex with another guy would be destructive, but that doesn't make it right. Ultimately, these people want sexual exclusivity because they are insecure. They are terrified that their significant other will find someone that they think they will be happier with and leave them. So they try their hardest to prevent this from ever happening, in the mean time missing the point that the alternative is that the person is happier.
On January 17 2015 10:10 ninazerg wrote: First of all, I would like to thank Lichter for calling on TL's Dark Templar Knight to cut through the evil of this OP with his warp-blade of justice. Cosmicspiral is not the hero TL wants, but he is the one we need.
Here's my recommendation: TELL HER YOU WILL LET HER FUCK HIM ONLY IF YOU GET TO FUCK HIM AS WELL. THEN WHEN IT'S YOUR TURN, REALLY LAY INTO HIM AND SEND THE FEAR OF GOD INTO HIS ANUS.
A question I would ask myself in this situation is what I would want if I was in her situation. Ask yourself if you met a seemingly ideal woman and told your wife you wanted to fuck her once, what response would you want. If she said it was OK, and you went through with it what do you think the result would be?
If this were me, I wouldn't be sure. I've thought about similar situations before, but I honestly don't know the answer. I usually put it down to a gambling situation. What do I have to gain? What do I have to lose? What are the odds of each outcome... basically what're the expected values of the two decisions.
Question for OP (sorry if already answered): do you imagine yourself possibly feeling unhappy if you let her do this?
If the answer is no, then the only risks to be considered are stuff like: does the marine have STDs, are there annoying neighbours/family/friends who might look at you weird from now on, does the marine have crazy ex-girlfriends who might start stalking your wife from now on etc etc... (I'm sure you've already got a lot of these angles covered etc)
Why do I get the feeling that this guy isn't actually asking for advice and instead just wants to show how "enlightened" he is, as if his "epiphany" is somehow new and will shower us with wisdom that will break us out of our cultural cages.
I could be doing this for a lot of reasons. I could be doing this because I want to assert my superiority over everyone and show you how enlightened I am. If I was more altruistic, I could be doing it to get people to think about their own biases. I guess you'll have to decide for yourself which one of these it is.
Something tells me you'll pick the one that dehumanizes me the most and paints me in a negative light; that way you don't need to actually consider what I'm saying as a source.
You have to realize that you are throwing arguments at people giving you advice but you are failing to realize that everyone will have their own definitions of what a relationship is and that is OK. Whatever works for you works for you, people are just cautioning you about the obvious potential problems that this can cause.
Just because people have differing opinions doesn't make both of them equally valid. One could be easily based in mindless tradition. But I don't want to offend you if you're religious.
And just because something works doesn't make it morally justifiable.
Just keep in mind some of the cautions that people have raised, because you wouldn't be the first person to introduce a new sexual dynamic into a relationship then regret it later.
The more I read these replies the more I realize how common of an assumption this is.
What will I do if I let my wife fuck the neighbor and then she realizes that she is happier with him than with me? Oh yeah, she will be happier! Well, I can't let THAT happen! I have to string this along as long as possible...force her to repress all of those desires that she has!
"Reality Check" (cause you like that phrase) If my wife is the kind of person that TRULY thinks that having sex with a different guy every night of the week will bring her happiness, then whether I restrict her to or not, she still has those desires.
Why wouldn't I want her to have been honest with me all along? I think this dishonesty is what keeps people with the wrong people for years of their life.
Heh, you didn't actually read my post really? You are taking it as an attack on your ideology/choice w/e but what I was simply arguing from the point that you are acting exactly like those who are arguing for a more "traditional" relationship. I wasn't dehumanizing you are all, I was calling you out on flipping the script showing how you are talking down to people and doing what you are accusing people who follow the "traditional" marriage patterns. Also you are not a real "source", you are 1 person in 1 relationship out of millions so please tell me how you are an authority on relationships.
"Just because people have differing opinions doesn't make both of them equally valid. One could be easily based in mindless tradition. But I don't want to offend you if you're religious.
And just because something works doesn't make it morally justifiable."
Here you go again dismissing people who think differently from you. Notice how my post pointed to there being many types of relationship and there isn't a "right" way to do it that is objectively better then the others. I am an anthropologist (albeit biological) and I have studied many different types of ways people people do this. You haven't shown any evidence besides your own internal logic so I don't see how you are dissmissing other peoples opinions as if yours is somehow more valid. You also seem to be very anti culture/tradition as in your posts you have disparaged conceptions of relationships that are considered "normative" in western culture, but yet you didn't actually post any evidence as to why they are bad. You just said some crap about black mailing your wife if you don't let her do what she wants.
The last part of your posts confuses me, you talk about dishonesty, when if she does in fact have the desires you say then she has been the entire length of your relationship and as people have pointed out is not a good thing. Peoples posts are based on the fundamental assumption that you both started your relationship based on monogamy and she is coming at you out of no where with this proposal (and could have been feeling this way for a while before). That is the problem that people are having, because it implies dishonesty on her part with you and with herself. You also seem to think every impulse a person has should be followed if they think it will make them "happy", which is problematic in itself because most impulses are fleeting, short term gains that hurt you in the long term. And while you say your happiness is the most paramount, most of your words imply otherwise and that you would do anything to make her happy, even if it hurts you. Like you talk as if her leaving you for the marine is a good thing as long as shes happy. What about you? Being rejected by the woman you are so in love with? Its why I mentioned the word martyr in my 1st post.
What's next? "I really want to have a baby from the marine?" He could give her something you couldn't ever, and surely you don't want to lock her up in her own marriage now, do you? Or maybe she wants go visit her parents with him, instead of you. She would be much happier to show her parents what a nice guy she's with all the time. Boy, isn't she lucky to have such an openminded and understanding husband..
FINALLY! Someone that took an argument of mine and pointed out how an extreme case would be ridiculous! You must have been on the debate team, my friend. I'm not being sarcastic...most of the replies have been people telling me that I'm an idiot for being able to accept that I'm not perfect and my wife might want to be with someone else. You could even think of more extreme examples. For example, what if it would make my wife happy if I was her personal slave. She gets to go out fucking and dating anyone she wants, but I have to make her meals, clean the house, and financially support this life of hers.
Once we get to this point of the conversation, it comes down to this: Her happiness is very important to me, but obviously not my PARAMOUNT concern. My happiness is my paramount concern. No matter how selfless someone is, there is a breaking point. There is a self-interested reason why I got into this relationship in the first place. Whether I break up with her comes down to whether something she did is destructive to the reasons why I'm in the relationship.
What I am arguing is that her having sex with this guy is NOT destructive to the reasons why I'm in this relationship, but I can think of a lot of things that WOULD be destructive. Me being her personal slave is one of them.
The fact is, for 99% of people, her having sex with another guy would be destructive, but that doesn't make it right. Ultimately, these people want sexual exclusivity because they are insecure. They are terrified that their significant other will find someone that they think they will be happier with and leave them. So they try their hardest to prevent this from ever happening, in the mean time missing the point that the alternative is that the person is happier.
Happiness doesn't come from sex, it cums from within.
What's next? "I really want to have a baby from the marine?" He could give her something you couldn't ever, and surely you don't want to lock her up in her own marriage now, do you? Or maybe she wants go visit her parents with him, instead of you. She would be much happier to show her parents what a nice guy she's with all the time. Boy, isn't she lucky to have such an openminded and understanding husband..
FINALLY! Someone that took an argument of mine and pointed out how an extreme case would be ridiculous! You must have been on the debate team, my friend. I'm not being sarcastic...most of the replies have been people telling me that I'm an idiot for being able to accept that I'm not perfect and my wife might want to be with someone else. You could even think of more extreme examples. For example, what if it would make my wife happy if I was her personal slave. She gets to go out fucking and dating anyone she wants, but I have to make her meals, clean the house, and financially support this life of hers.
Once we get to this point of the conversation, it comes down to this: Her happiness is very important to me, but obviously not my PARAMOUNT concern. My happiness is my paramount concern. No matter how selfless someone is, there is a breaking point. There is a self-interested reason why I got into this relationship in the first place. Whether I break up with her comes down to whether something she did is destructive to the reasons why I'm in the relationship.
What I am arguing is that her having sex with this guy is NOT destructive to the reasons why I'm in this relationship, but I can think of a lot of things that WOULD be destructive. Me being her personal slave is one of them.
The fact is, for 99% of people, her having sex with another guy would be destructive, but that doesn't make it right. Ultimately, these people want sexual exclusivity because they are insecure. They are terrified that their significant other will find someone that they think they will be happier with and leave them. So they try their hardest to prevent this from ever happening, in the mean time missing the point that the alternative is that the person is happier.
Happiness doesn't come from sex, it cums from within.
On January 16 2015 12:44 KING CHARLIE :D wrote: Hey guys, I usually get along just fine in relationships and never have a hard time arriving at what I think the correct decision is, but this time things are different. I need your help. Quick background on me as a frame of reference for any future advice you plan on giving: I am a 25 year old, straight male who is comfortable with himself. No serious health defects or history of abuse…(so self esteem is not the issue here)
Alright, onto my problem. My wife and I have been together for 8 years and I can honestly say that I love her deeply. Her happiness in all aspects of her life is one of the most important things to me in the entire world, and I am willing to do almost anything in the name of making her happy.
Anyway, I live in a condo complex. Our condo is in a close proximity to surrounding condos where other young, tax-paying productive citizens dwell. In one of these condos is a guy that seems a little older than me that is nothing short of spectacular in every visible way.
He is in the Marines. He served two tours of duty in Iraq and one in Afghanistan. He was such a highly decorated warrior that now the Marines have him training the FUTURE generations of savage warriors. This guy is a hero.
Couple this with the fact that his face looks like it was carved out of granite. He has cheekbones and a jawbone that make girls need waterproof panties. His abs look like they're fucking CGI'd onto his body. He walks around outside his condo shirtless…in the dead of winter. But what's even more impressive than all of this is that he is an awesome dude.
I've talked to him several times and he has never been anything short of cordial, smart and respectful.
I have a dog. Sometimes that dog needs to take a shit, and when he does, my wife takes him out and stands around waiting to collect the shit with the bag.
Sometimes, this Marine happens to be taking his dog out for a walk at the same time and starts talking to my wife. He makes her laugh, they talk about their jobs…they're friends.
Here's the problem: my wife approached me a few days ago and told me that she would love to have sex with him once. She would never want a relationship with him, but she would love to go across the parking lot, have one night of fun with him and never do it again.
My question to you people is:
Why shouldn't I let her?
I was thinking about it…I want her to be happy. My function in this relationship is not to fulfill every single fleeting desire my wife could possibly have…after all how could I? I am NEVER going to be the hot, battle-hardened warrior next door with six-packs and seven-inches. Simply based on my genetics… that is a desire of hers that I, myself, could NEVER fulfill.
Why should I restrict her from doing something that she thinks will make her happy? Why should I blackmail her with the relationship saying that if she goes and has sex with someone else, I will punish her by breaking up with her?
Even if someone was a complete stranger, I wouldn't want them to spend their life in some relegated, less-happy-than-they-could-be state of living. Why do I reserve this INCREDIBLE treatment for the person that I supposedly care about more than anyone else in the world? Why do we even want sexual and emotional exclusivity so bad? The longer I think about it, the more I realize that I have been locking my wife in a cage for our entire relationship, simply because I don't want to look at myself in the mirror honestly and acknowledge my own inadequacies.
I'm in this relationship for a LOT of reasons. My wife is a great problem solver, she is a wonderful nurturer and caregiver for our future children, she is a brilliant thinker and conversationalist, she is funny…My point is: NONE of these things change if she has sex with the guy next door! The only reason I would restrict her from doing it is because I am insecure. I am terrified that she is going to leave me and think that he makes her happier than I do. So to avoid this, I lock her in this emotional cage and force her to pretend the rest of the world doesn't exist so that I don't have to feel like I am anything less than perfect.
But, I'm not perfect. And let's say my worst nightmare comes to fruition. Let's say that she has sex with this guy and realizes that the warrior penis is what has been missing ALL HER LIFE and that she is happier with him. Well, if I truly care about her happiness as much as I say I do…wouldn't that be a great thing?
Thank you for your help in advance.
That she even expressed this desire (or perhaps more accurately that she even has this desire) already changes your relationship completely. At the moment you're just deciding on which way it changes your relationship. Caging her like you described is definitely not the right kind of solution, that I agree with you on. The only alternative is not just allowing her to do this though. Your perception on this needs to change because you're cornering yourself there.
The crux of what you seem to be arguing here is that this desire of hers is something you'd never be able to fulfill. To an extent that is true, you're not that guy and you don't possess the same qualities but you're assuming her desire can only be fulfilled in one way. Find out a bit more about where it comes from and what it's about.I garuntee you it's not exclusively about how attractive he is, that just wouldn't make sense because then the reverse would become true, that you'd want to have sex with just any physically attractive woman with an appealing personality and I'm betting you have the experience to disprove that.
This is a complicated problem though, it's difficult to know the full ramifications of what will come from this. It's also difficult to know how ok you really will be with all of this, mostly because of how the relationship may change (which is also very difficult to predict).
There is a chance your wife isn't entirely aware of why she wants this which will make it even harder to tell what's really going on but don't just settle for the explanation you gave earlier, that of it just being because he's physically attractive and has a good personality.
Regardless of what happens I do hope it works out in the end, and hopefully it doesn't need to work out by the relationship ending. You seem to care a great deal about her.
If marine knows the word "honour", he will decline your wife's desire. Usually the world is not black and white, but from his point of view on this problem it should be very clear for him what not to do (aka stick his dick into a married woman).
However, all this situation is not about him, it's about YOUR marrige and YOUR family. IMHO, no matter what you do, it's a lose-lose situation. So brace yourself, a few years from now on will be very difficult for you. Good luck!
I don't get it. OP posts the blog asking for 'advice' as to whether he should let this happen or not, then proceeds to dismiss every response that isn't directly supporting that idea as 'insecure' and 'based on useless traditions' or whatever nonsense. Also, that comparison about disneyland and eating pumpkin pie is bullshit. If my wife wanted to go to disneyland after we both lost our jobs and couldn't pay the rent, you bet I wouldn't let her; and if she was overweight and suffering from diabetes, no way she is eating any pie. Not because I'm 'insecure' or 'putting her in a cage', but because sometimes people don't know better and just do stupid shit, and keeping your partner from doing dumb shit is part of the whole marriage business (while sleeping around with every dude that has a six-pack usually isn't).
By the way, wanting exclusivity is not even something that only happens in relationships either. Like, I have a small group of close friends and it'd be fucking weird if one of them brought a random stranger with them when we go to hang out at a bar or something. Not because we're 'insecure' about our friend finding someone better somewhere down the line, but just because it messes with the established dynamic of the group and basically ruins the comfort and fun we have.
Also, the whole thing about letting your partner go if they aren't happy with you is stupid and defeatist as hell. Marriage takes work, from both parties. It's not just about doing 'whatever makes you happy' all the time. Incidentally things that make us happy short-term usually end up being pretty crap in the long run; things like getting high, playing video games all day every day, becoming a slut, and so on.
Yo this shit is all sorts of fucked up, OP. It's like if I said, "I'm just going to masturbate to this porn scene once. Never again. I won't even think of masturbating to this scene ever again." And if I said that, I'd probably have already jerked off to the scene.
To me and my fiance, sex is an intimate act where we open up to each other and fully trust each other. To do that with someone else is the worst betrayal possible. So, if my wife even said that, let alone actually did that, I may very well boot her ass out the door right there. It's not about insecurity, but what our relationship is about and the trust between each other.
Why do you need to trust her about this very selective group of activities? It's funny how no one ever thinks about why they restrict their significant other from CERTAIN things, but not from other things.
As I said in another reply: You don't restrict her from going to Disneyland. You don't restrict her from pumpkin pie, or from going out to the movies with her friends. You restrict her from this VERY SELECTIVE collection of activities. Why is that?
Hint: It's because you are insecure. We all are. You are terrified she is going to find someone that she likes more than you and leave you for them. So to prevent this from happening you lock her in a cage and make her pretend as though the outside world doesn't exist.
This is a really naive viewpoint, and it seems pretty clear that Cosmic was right; you are severely codependent to the point where you don't seem to express any kind of happiness of your own without your wife, which is incredibly unhealthy.
We don't live in a fantasy world where every act is equal. Different acts are limited all of the time because of the nature of the act. The nature of the act of sex makes it one that, to me, requires the utmost trust and faith in another person. Breaking that trust is a betrayal. I don't lock my fiancé in a cage. I ask that if she wants to commit her life to me and me to her, then she needs to be mature enough to understand what a monogamous relationship is and be OK with it, and she asks the same of me. The idea that limiting your life partner from doing something is "selfish" or is "blackmailing" is incredibly naive. I would limit my partner from hitting my children because it's wrong and harms them, even if she wants to. The same exact thing applies to cheating or any other action in the world. A relationship is a compromise, which means compromising on the things you do, and it seems you haven't yet learned this.
I suspect that you haven't told us the whole story and the reality is that she already cheated on you. Furthermore, I suspect that, because you are codependent, you are trying to make excuses to forgive her and stay in a relationship with her, and to do this you've come here to subtlety challenge monogamous individuals in an attempt to justify your weakness and inability to separate yourself from her.
I don't really see why you even came here. You gave us a thin pretext of an inner dilemma when in reality you come across as extremely arrogant and condescending, like marrying at 17 somehow taught you all of the secrets of love when in fact, from what you've shared here, it sounds like your relationship is extremely unhealthy.
Also, your constant reference to "insecurity" and "blind tradition" is nothing but a pseudo-intellectual crutch that demonstrates immaturity and the inability to face the fact that your answer isn't THE answer.
Why are you so sure letting her sleep with someone else is what she really wants and is going to make her happy. Wouldn't she be happier knowing she married a guy secure in his masculinity and will step up his game to fuck her more passionately and will do his best to satisfy her instead of just letting some other dude do the work? Sounds like you just don't want to put in the effort.
From your description of him you should allow her to sleep with him only if you yourself get a turn with him. If you bring it up with him he will probably think you two are freaks and will stay away from her and if not you get to experience the cgi ab hero yourself!
On January 16 2015 12:44 KING CHARLIE :D wrote:I am NEVER going to be the hot, battle-hardened warrior next door with six-packs and seven-inches. Simply based on my genetics… that is a desire of hers that I, myself, could NEVER fulfill.
On January 17 2015 10:45 KING CHARLIE :D wrote: My point is: mine is a unique situation in that this is a desire of hers that I can NEVER fulfill, simply by virtue of my genetics.
I feel like this point got passed over somehow but how do either of you already know your neighbor's cock size?
And if that's the crux of what's going on here they make extendable dildo condoms or something you can wear.
This communication should really happen with your partner anyway. What do we here know about what both of you want? There's nothing wrong with having a relationship that's open for one or both people, especially people who settled into a long term relationship without much sexual experience. Which by the way it's also naive to think one night with this random neighbor (who you for some reason have hyped up as an automatically dynamite lover) will be life changing, either in the sense that she would leave you or in the sense that it would scratch every itch of curiosity she has and fulfill her so that she is in total sexual nirvana with her own body and has nothing left to learn.
Can you give us more context as to help us understand why she would make this proposition? Was it out of the blue? Was she seriously asking your permission or just exhausting her thoughts on how attractive he is? It's important to know if she was being serious.
You really need to ask her if she wants to, and more importantly if he wants to, and whether she'd be OK with you having sex with someone else.
The thing about marriage is everyone has their own interpretation of its function. It can be a commitment or modus operandi, legal bond, tradition, attempt at assimilation (vis a vis the increase in gay marriages), etc. If you don't mind it then let her have it (so to speak.) BUT, don't tell her its OK non-chalantly. Though reasons for marriage may be different, I think it should however be an honest relationship with good communication. Sit her down and hash-it out like adults. Let each other know where your emotions are.
Sex is a weird thing; an impulse. Some couples try to hide them and some indulge, which usually ends in heartache. Make sure this is just an impulse that ALL THREE PARTIES ARE OK WITH. Don't forget the marine's emotions as well. I'd be weirded out if my neighbor, who I knew was married, tried to have sex with me.
I think everybody knows the real answer here: she can make the sex with the Marine next door if she wishes, but only if she agrees to pay you marriage damages of 9 9 T 9.
Here's how I see it. Cheating isn't limited to the physical. She is clearly attracted to this other man, and you should give her some credit for coming clean to you about her attraction (and desire to have sex with him). But this is your dilemma. If she and this other man have sex, your relationship will be changed forever. It will never be the same as it used to. Perhaps it's not cheating if you know about it, but clearly she feels more strongly about him than she does about you. Sure it might just be a one time thing, where they have sex once and she gets over him and comes back to you and things don't feel different at all. But that is unlikely. More likely she has already made up her mind at this point to have sex with him regardless of anything you say, but she wants you to know anyway. She is already emotionally cheating on you even though maybe not on a physical level yet.
fluffy pylon has a point. Besides that maybe we are a bit insecure about letting our SO's have sex with someone else but you seem to have serious lack of self appreciation with the whole 'can never satisfy her' thing..
This scenario, the OP's replies/attitude, and the way his wife is lusting over another man (and how that man seemingly reciprocates)...all this reminds me of the movie "The Theory of Everything". I wouldn't be surprised if the OP was in some way inspired by that.
CosmicSpiral was right and OP's agressive reaction only confirms it. After reading this thread I think Stratos_speAr summed it up nicely. I think the guy has serious issues and my impression grew only stronger with his every post here.
Your happiness is more important than her happiness. Love's a commitment, unless you subscribed to some sort of polygamist belief system, it's something exclusive. Assuming this isn't some sort of joke, I suggest getting advice from someone who is well versed in the science of relationships, like a psychologist, since this relationship is a big deal to you. A psych deals with such cases daily and will be know what's the proper course of action for your case.
Also, were you the guy that used to do those crazy ass stories about his family with those stick figures? If so you are my favorite blogger here :D
Just read through the blog and the replies and OP, you are seriously being way too defensive in your responses. You asked for advice and you got plenty of it. These people aren't out to get you, they're genuinely just giving you their 2 cents on your situation. Almost all your responses begin with something along the lines of "because of your biased views". That's a really shitty attitude to have. I'm guessing any viewpoint that doesn't align with yours is biased.
Honestly, I think you're getting into your own head. You're trying way too hard to convince yourself that you should be okay with her sleeping with another man but the truth is you can't translate your rationale into feelings and that's why you're confused and seeking advice. If you truly felt the same way you thought, you wouldn't be asking for advice. You need to consider your feelings first and foremost and understand why you feel that way as opposed to why you shouldn't feel that way. You also need to consider the consequences of your choices. Are you truly going to be able to continue your relationship like nothing happened?
I'm unsure how you can be ok with your wife being selfish while you are trying your hardest to be selfless, I think with or without your permission she'd better think about this really hard, I doubt the short period of pleasure will be worth all the pain that will ensue
I agree with pretty much everything Stratos said btw
I'm amazed at how you can negate your own needs. I think this is why most people here don't agree with you.
We are saying that by doing this, you might risk losing her. Your answer is that if she is happier with another man, then good for her (and thus by extension good for you since you only want her to be happy).
But that line of thought completely bypasses your own needs. Yes, you want her to be happy. And wanting her to be happy with someone else is all nice and dandy in theory, but in practice a breakup will make you suffer and leave you devastated (especially if you love her as much as you say you do). Even if you know it that she will be happier with another man, losing her will still destroy you. This is why most of us, in your situation, would not go through with it. You say it's insecurities, I don't agree. At one point, it's about self preservation.
So either we don't assess the risk of losing her the same way and you're blindly confident that your wife, who wants to have sex with another man, will never leave you. Or you don't mind losing her too much. And that means either you don't mind getting your heart ripped out (being a martyr for a loved one's happiness might seem noble to some), or you don't love her as you say you do. In both cases, it doesn't really make sense to me (and to the rest of the TL people).
Well... THis is a bit of a strange situation for anyone (including the ones giving you advice). First thing Id like to point out: The only reason I am giving you advice (sort of) is because you asked for it. I don't think anyone can accurately understand your situation, so I doubt anyone can give you a good advice (not to mention that this is highly subjective).
That being said, lets look at some of the facts: First, You say you are 25 and got married 8 years ago. Quick math: you got married when you were 17. Was she also 17 at the time? I ask because at 17, most people don't know what they want at all. And it does show. Second, have you ever considered that you might be happier without her? I am not saying to leave her, I am wondering if you are able to choose a different path, or if you are unable to see a life without her. Third, Do you put much weight into feelings, trust, love, etc?
The way I see it, If she wants to do something that will be "maybe" great for her, that will last a short period of time and In return almost certainly damage your marriage and you for a very long time... She does sound very selfish and I would not want to be with someone like that.
Generally speaking, by telling you she is shifting the guilt onto you: A) You tell her No, and that means you are the one not letting her do what she wants. B) You tell her Yes, so if anything negative comes from it, you are the one to blame because you chose it.
The only good answer to a question like that is: You are a grown up, you make that decision, and live with the consequences. Best case scenario is still not something positive in this case while almost any other case scenario flat out sucks, so why bother?
Oh and as a side note, I did have a Girl that wanted "a break" from the relationship in the past and I did agree to it. In the end she left me anyway and after 3 years of feeling like crap I realized how lucky I was that she left me. I dont even want to begin to imagine a life with someone who cares so little about me.
This is BS. If you allow this shit to happen, start by organizing your finances and making sure you settle any shared accounts or assets with her first. You got any kids? By the way, what makes you think she hasn't done it yet?
Gotta say, OP is very brave for posting about this. Respect
I'm a fucking directionless 20 y old who is battling a chronic illness, but I would really suggest the book 'Sex at Dawn' by Chris Ryan. Its a fantastic breakdown of the entire dynamic of human sexuality.
I don't think it's fair to say that you would lock her into an emotional cage if you tell her she can't do it. I think you are right that sexual exclusiveness is not the core of a healthy relationship and that not acknowledging the fact that your partner can be sexually attracted by another person is very insecure. But isn't insecurity something that is an inherent part of love? By loving someone you make yourself vulnerable and of course you don't want to lose this person. Now that doesn't mean that you have to be clingy as fuck and draw lines everywhere. Putting your feelings second can also be very insecure maybe you are doing this only because you are afraid to say no. I won't tell you what to do and I think this question can definitely be answered either way but that depends entirely on you.
To me and my fiance, sex is an intimate act where we open up to each other and fully trust each other. To do that with someone else is the worst betrayal possible. So, if my wife even said that, let alone actually did that, I may very well boot her ass out the door right there. It's not about insecurity, but what our relationship is about and the trust between each other.
Why do you need to trust her about this very selective group of activities? It's funny how no one ever thinks about why they restrict their significant other from CERTAIN things, but not from other things.
As I said in another reply: You don't restrict her from going to Disneyland. You don't restrict her from pumpkin pie, or from going out to the movies with her friends. You restrict her from this VERY SELECTIVE collection of activities. Why is that?
Hint: It's because you are insecure. We all are. You are terrified she is going to find someone that she likes more than you and leave you for them. So to prevent this from happening you lock her in a cage and make her pretend as though the outside world doesn't exist.
she locked you in a cage at the same time you locked her in a cage, this is not a one way street. this is what the civilized world calls marriage. something you both mutually agreed to. vows were exchanged. until death do us part. yadda yadda.
If you're going to use a fucking disneyland analogy at least be thorough and honest with the metaphor. You both signed legally binding, federally recognized contracts prohibiting either party from going to disneyland. one day, she jokingly mentions how wonderful disneyland might be. you, limp dicked and depressed, post a purposefully dry, emotionally void, pseudo-intellectual exploration of why it's a good idea to let your wife go to disneyland, then defend it rigorously against the onslaught of emotional knee jerks and actual jerks who are too bro, bro, bro to be open and honest about the thought experiment you've presented.
But this isnt your girlfriend. Were it, your arguments about insecurities would be valid and philosophically interesting. challenge the status quo, really delve into the reasons behind why humans think and behave the ways they do concerning relationships and happiness! sounds great, but:
she is your wife.
commitments were made. very permanent ones.
You got married very young. its perhaps time the two of you sat down and discussed, at length, what your relationship means now, what it meant when you first exchanged vows, and what you want it to mean in the future.
there are chemicals in the brain that govern lust and love, and their strengths vary over the duration of a relationship. Initially two people are infatuated. they lust for each other. over time, the chemical that governs infatuation is less present, and the chemicals that govern deeply rooted attachment and friendship and love increase. eventually all that is left is that deep bond, leaving couples feeling like they "lost the spark" they once had. that infatuation. those are the feelings they mistakenly associate with love, assuming they've lost it, when really they've traded something fleeting and impermanent for something solid, and sure. there's a lot of science behind this, I recommend you and your wife both read up on it together.
edit: it's very concerning that you truly feel you will "never" satisfy her in those ways. never is a very silly word to use. join a gym. experiment in bed. accept that change is possible and become the man she is telling you she wants. virility and size are not mutually exclusive.
Maybe your wife feels you give her all freedoms then she ask this (to see where is the limit?).
I can see this problem incoming in my friends. They had very limited freedoms (afraid prior end?) when they were a couple and after marriage (ironically since this day) they have nearly all freedoms, both mens and womens.
EPT
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