• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 13:42
CEST 19:42
KST 02:42
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro4 Preview: On Course10Code S Season 1 - RO8 Preview7[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Progenitors8Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A: Rogue, Percival, Solar, Zoun13[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt1: Inheritors16
Community News
Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule !9Weekly Cups (April 27-May 4): Clem takes triple0RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event12Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO12 Results12026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers25
StarCraft 2
General
Code S Season 1 - RO8 Preview Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book Weekly Cups (April 27-May 4): Clem takes triple Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO12 Results
Tourneys
Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule ! 2026 GSL Season 2 Qualifiers SC2 INu's Battles#16 <BO.9> Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) GSL Code S Season 1 (2026)
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players
External Content
Mutation # 525 Wheel of Misfortune The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 524 Death and Taxes Mutation # 523 Firewall
Brood War
General
ASL Tickets to Live Event Finals? [ASL21] Ro4 Preview: On Course Quality of life changes in BW that you will like ? Why there arent any 256x256 pro maps? RepMastered™: replay sharing and analyzer site
Tourneys
[ASL21] Semifinals A [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL22] RO16 Group Stage - 02 - 10 May [ASL21] Ro8 Day 3
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Fighting Spirit mining rates Muta micro map competition What's the deal with APM & what's its true value
Other Games
General Games
Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread Daigo vs Menard Best of 10
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread UK Politics Mega-thread The Letting Off Steam Thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
streaming software Strange computer issues (software) [G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
How EEG Data Can Predict Gam…
TrAiDoS
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2390 users

[DAC EU] The balance of power

Blogs > khy
Post a Reply
khy
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
United States475 Posts
January 11 2015 08:52 GMT
#1
[image loading]

DAC Liquipedia

Given the madness that has overtaken the EU scene (and by extension the Americas) since TI4, there's been some substantial uncertainty over the alignment of power as of late. Former powerhouses have fallen to the wayside or near obscurity, while new looks have risen to not-quite-dominance-but-still-really-good. The pecking order has been partially established; in fact, given that the Dota 2 Asian Championship marks the first appearance of the latest reshuffles, it's probably too early to call it. I could even rhapsodize a while about the ever-evolving nature of competition and establish my intellectual cred by drawing on Darwinian theory about all of this crap, but I like to thing I'm not that pretentious.

Wait, too late.

Anyway, the DAC qualifiers are still pretty useful to a person like me that is moderately interested in the overall Dota 2 scene. Say what you will about the recent controversies about oversaturation, but for this fan at least, viewer fatigue has definitely set in. I only tune in to see my particular favorite players and how they're doing, and being a SingSing fanboy, not even that much anymore--my heart can barely take it. So the DAC offers something slightly more compelling than the myriad tournaments that have come and gone, barely remembered by the fans nor the players--a tantalizing taste of centrality. The DAC is a huge tournament, make no doubt about it.

(Side note: Liquid Dota rightfully should be criticized for having such threadbare coverage of this event. I really hope things improve from here on out, because switching to GosuGamers or joinDota kind of makes me queasy after having been with TL since 2008)

While some teams were left out (4ASC for instance might have been deserving of a chance), it's something of a relief to see such a large chunk of European teams duke it out in one bracket. Through the results, we can start to tease out where teams are relative to each other. Knowing that there's a lot of prestige and $$$money$$$ on the line, we can (hopefully) assume that the teams involved aren't taking this as just another tournament.

So, let's look at the EU bracket, despite it not having finished, and despite me having watched like one and a half games in total, which really delegitimizes what I'm trying to do here. After that we'll take a look at the entire EU scene in general and try to place things out.

Doing better than expected
[image loading]
Hellraisers
Considered to have been on the up-and-up for a little while, Hellraisers has finally made a big splash by reaching the finals via the winner's bracket, earning them a one-game advantage. They've worked through a Virtus Pro Classic (not sure how I feel about that name, but it seems like it's reached common usage already so whatever), Empire, and Power Rangers to get here, essentially burning a path through their fellow CIS brothers. I guess we should not here that 6 of the 8 teams in the bracket are CIS, which really undermines my thesis of a large bracket that allows us to tease out the balance of power in the EU scene. Oh well, sally forth anyway.

Whether Hellraisers will find dominance, or their strategies and tactics found out more quickly than they'd like is unknown, and probably could do with some more research on my part that I haven't done. Moving on.

[image loading]
Power Rangers
PR has long been a tier-2 team in the EU scene, having never really achieved any notable status other than not having dissolved as an organization. After having been gutted by the post-TI4 shuffle, PR is apparently doing better than I would've expected them to have. They've fallen to the loser's bracket to none other than Hellraisers, facing off against Na'Vi for the right to a rematch in the finals. Best of luck to them.

[image loading]
Na'Vi
Oh, how they've fallen. And yet, they seem to have found a little spark. What spark? I don't know, I haven't been watching. I'll let you know once I've skimmed some of the VODs later. Despite having posted mediocre to downright embarrassing results for almost the entirety of the post-TI4 period, here they are pushing their way through the loser's bracket, on the cusp of a chance to qualify for the largest non-International tournament and prove to the world that the Na'Vi name has only undergone some hibernation.

Not performing like I expected
[image loading]
Virtus Pro and Virtus Pro Polar
Both VP teams have occupied the EU scene for a while, placing solidly in many recent tournaments, but not playing well enough to win any notable events. VP Polar seems to have had the edge over their brothers recently, with Illidan's Medusa plinking away at her enemies. Despite their solid form, they've both been eliminated.

Quite meh
[image loading]
Empire
Always relevant but never truly dominant (their form around the run at Starladder 9 can't even count because they lost in the end, even if it was to The Greatest Team To Have Played Dota 2), Empire is has been eliminated. Sad violin.

Empire has never been a team I've focused on, so no commentary here. Sorry.

[image loading]
Alliance
The reorganization of the Kings of 2012 failed to bear any fruit, with EGM posting a disappointing performance on offlane just as many expected. Whether Bulldog's return would improve the situation is certainly up for debate, given some rumors of friction between him and Loda. The jury on the other non-readditions, Pajkatt and mynuts, is still out, despite the team's overall uninspiring performance.

S a d b o y s that's the last Twitch meme I'll ever use, I promise.
[image loading]
Team Tinker
The losers of every roster shuffle post-TI4, Tinker has performed to expectations. TT has long suffered from position mismatches, and the most recent shuffle hasn't alleviated them. Although Qojqva and SingSing had returned to their most comfortable 1 and 2 spots and Wayto returned to the pro scene at support, Arise in the offlane proved to be less than potent, and Bulba continued to struggle with support. Using Arise as a standin makes sense from a familiarity point of view--he consistently stacks with Sing on Sing's stream--but Arise lacks the experience and hero versatility to perform at the pro level. Despite my everlasting love for SingSing and affection for Bulba and Wayto (why did you guys ever leave TL ;( ), I can't help but say that they're doing terribly and I really hope they figure out their situation soon.

So...
...what to make of all of this? The EU scene's tumult is clearly far from over, whether in-game or in-roster. The recent announcements of Ninjas in Pajamas (former LAJONS) and Hanni stack (for the lack of a better name) could have some influence on how things will play out in the run up to TI5. I'm doubtful of whether we'll see another magical ascendance like Alliance in 2012. As we get farther and farther away from that star-crossed year, it becomes clearer that that team was truly a singular event.

Rather, today what we have is that Secret is a level above all comers, truly the only "elite" team occupying a tier of its own. This despite having had a reshuffle of their own so recently. Among the second-tier teams, CIS has tenuously gained the edge on Western Europe, if only because they have teams that have stayed together for longer than their counterparts in the west. Western Europe, on the other hand, continues to flail as its players attempt to find their footing. And they must do it soon: August, and Dota 2 glory, will be here sooner than any of them would like.

---


A couple of notes:
  • I obviously didn't take this column too seriously; I just a) wanted to write something, and b) felt that I should try to contribute something given the dearth of content on this site. Consider my Dota education a work in progress.
  • I purposely avoided the Cloud 9 EU or Americas debate.
  • Thanks for reading this far!


Badjas
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
Netherlands2038 Posts
January 11 2015 10:36 GMT
#2
A for effort (:
If you want to care a bit less about correctness, just call this a Power Rank and be done with it :-D
I <3 the internet, I <3 you
dfs
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Russian Federation4050 Posts
January 11 2015 10:55 GMT
#3
Yes, Liquid Dota Coverage, why you suck so much?
Writerhttp://i.imgur.com/Q1jSb9X.jpg (c) Shiro; http://i.imgur.com/lSDLLKb.png (c) drav
opterown *
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Australia54784 Posts
January 11 2015 11:51 GMT
#4
On January 11 2015 19:55 dfs wrote:
Yes, Liquid Dota Coverage, why you suck so much?

we need more passion + there are a lot of potential writers who are already working for other sites that might have been with us if we entered dota earlier? haha

oh well
ModeratorRetired LR Bonjwa
TL+ Member
rabidch
Profile Joined January 2010
United States20289 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-01-11 12:21:12
January 11 2015 12:19 GMT
#5
On January 11 2015 20:51 opterown wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 11 2015 19:55 dfs wrote:
Yes, Liquid Dota Coverage, why you suck so much?

we need more passion + there are a lot of potential writers who are already working for other sites that might have been with us if we entered dota earlier? haha

oh well

havent been paying attention to this at all, way too many games to follow. only know about what happened in the americas.

though i thought that coverage wouldnt actually cover this until the LAN event
LiquidDota StaffOnly a true king can play the King.
ahswtini
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Northern Ireland22212 Posts
January 11 2015 12:43 GMT
#6
Hey you should consider doing official LD writeups
"As I've said, balance isn't about strategies or counters, it's about probability and statistics." - paralleluniverse
calippo
Profile Joined March 2011
Sweden2525 Posts
January 11 2015 14:11 GMT
#7
nice writeup! Hopefully there will be another TL awards for 2014 soon aswell!
in it for the game not for the .... - PMS Army. [WUFC-SDK. VIM. PMS]
goody153
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
44275 Posts
January 11 2015 17:21 GMT
#8
cool read .. liked it
this is a quote
DavoS
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States4605 Posts
January 11 2015 17:30 GMT
#9
Thanks for the write up. Time for my unsolicited 2 cents.
Wins 0 tournaments = only team that can be considered elite. Sorry but Secret hasn't earned that kind of praise yet. EG and C9 were consistently stronger prior to the shuffle and it's too early to assume otherwise.
Sing and qojqva are just as responsible for TT being bad. Truthfully I've been impressed by Arise in a number of games. And bulba plays dirt poor support pretty well (minus poor warding, but that's just a result of TT never having a game plan). I'm a Sing fanboy too but I can't bury my head in the sand and pretend he's better than TT's results
"KDA is actually the most useless stat in the game" Aui_2000
KalWarkov
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Germany4126 Posts
January 11 2015 19:36 GMT
#10
C9 was considered stronger than Secret before the shuffle?
by who? by you alone?
DiaBoLuS ** Sc2 - Protoss: 16x GM | Dota2 - Offlane Immortal | Wc3 - Undead decent level | Diablo nerd | Chess / Magnus fanboy | BVB | Agnostic***
TMG26
Profile Joined July 2012
Portugal2017 Posts
January 11 2015 23:31 GMT
#11
Nazgul, hire the Hellraiders.

After Dread's "I am player" speech you kinda have to.
Supporter of the situational Blink Dagger on Storm.
clusen
Profile Joined May 2010
Germany8702 Posts
January 12 2015 15:44 GMT
#12
On January 12 2015 04:36 KalWarkov wrote:
C9 was considered stronger than Secret before the shuffle?
by who? by you alone?

Not to mention that a) Secret won the last 2 tournaments and b) C9 and EG were both NA and not EU.

Probably just a bad day from him.
TMG26
Profile Joined July 2012
Portugal2017 Posts
January 12 2015 16:36 GMT
#13
Secret best was also a second place on LAN.....
Supporter of the situational Blink Dagger on Storm.
khy
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
United States475 Posts
January 14 2015 01:30 GMT
#14
Again, I purposely ignored the C9 EU vs Americas debate because what a headache.

It's true (and kind of depressing) that EG has been the only consistently dominant team in the West since TI4, but that was outside the scope of what I was trying to look at. I guess the measuring stick I was using while I was writing this thing was, Among all of the EU teams (i.e. excluding C9 and EG), who would I feel the most comfortable laying down $100 USD on if they were playing a bo5 for a championship?

Well, let's take a look. In Western Europe there's Secret (of course), Alliance, Tinker, 4ASC, and MeePwn'd (Hanni stack, I should edit that in the OP). I'm pretty sure I'm missing something, but I'm gonna move on anyway. CIS/Eastern Europe, there's Na'Vi, Hellraisers, Empire, VP/VPP, PR...you know, all the teams in the DAC EU quals. Maybe the language I used was a little strong, but it was explicitly meant for within the EU scene, excluding the Americas. And in the EU scene, I would definitely bet on Secret against all comers right now, even if they don't have the accomplishments of an "elite" team--I think that's more a comment about the state that EU is in right now than anything else.

---

Now, about Tinker. I just don't feel that confident in Arise. He has a pretty limited hero pool--SK and Magnus, and probably one or two others that I don't know about. He's really fucking good on those heroes, but as the level of competition gets stiffer he's going to get outclassed and outdrafted. Which is another problem, they need a drafter ASAP. There was news about Jerax going to TT, so hopefully he might be able to bring some consistency there.

I haven't paid much attention to Qojqva, but I've always felt that he's solid enough to the point that the majority of criticism about him is that he doesn't do more. As for Sing, he's just never gotten the farm intensive + playmaker heroes that he feels more comfortable with. It just goes back to the positional mismatches that they've dealt with the entire time the team has been together. Sing is just a pretty bad offlaner. But, I see your point. Teams live and die by all of their players' performances, and although he hasn't had the best conditions, he's still responsible for their poor record.
Giga
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United Kingdom114 Posts
January 15 2015 14:09 GMT
#15
> Arise lacks the experience and hero versatility to perform at the pro level.

Careful, when he sees you at LAN, he may smash your head in.
은하
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Monday Night Weeklies
16:00
#51
RotterdaM715
TKL 264
IndyStarCraft 199
SteadfastSC149
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 715
TKL 264
IndyStarCraft 199
MaxPax 165
SteadfastSC 149
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 4248
Bisu 1452
Hyuk 211
Dewaltoss 171
firebathero 127
ggaemo 67
Mong 45
Aegong 36
Hyun 32
HiyA 31
[ Show more ]
sorry 25
Rock 24
Hm[arnc] 20
IntoTheRainbow 11
SilentControl 9
Movie 7
Dota 2
Gorgc6139
monkeys_forever453
NeuroSwarm92
Counter-Strike
fl0m5204
olofmeister2179
Fnx 1358
pashabiceps1343
byalli307
Heroes of the Storm
MindelVK12
Other Games
Grubby4269
FrodaN1913
Liquid`RaSZi1407
Hui .219
KnowMe194
B2W.Neo146
C9.Mang0119
Livibee74
Trikslyr48
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 84
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 42
• FirePhoenix4
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Other Games
• WagamamaTV376
• Shiphtur260
Upcoming Events
OSC
6h 18m
CranKy Ducklings
16h 18m
Afreeca Starleague
16h 18m
Light vs Flash
INu's Battles
17h 18m
ByuN vs herO
PiGosaur Cup
1d 6h
Replay Cast
1d 15h
Replay Cast
2 days
The PondCast
2 days
OSC
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
[ Show More ]
RSL Revival
3 days
OSC
3 days
Korean StarCraft League
4 days
RSL Revival
4 days
BSL
5 days
GSL
5 days
Cure vs TBD
TBD vs Maru
BSL
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
WardiTV TLMC #16
Nations Cup 2026

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Acropolis #4
KK 2v2 League Season 1
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
SCTL 2026 Spring
RSL Revival: Season 5
2026 GSL S1
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: W7
YSL S3
Escore Tournament S2: W8
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
2026 GSL S2
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026: Closed Qualifier
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.