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On June 20 2014 18:46 Dingodile wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2014 15:04 urboss wrote:
Can someone explain to me:
Why is there no way for twitch.tv to deal with adblockers?
This should be an easy problem to solve... They can but they dont do it because viewers will be decreased extremely.
That is not an argument.
There is a shitton of ads on TV, that doesnt prevent people from watching it.
Would you stop watching GSL just because there are two ads every hour?
I can't see why twitch.tv cannot stream the ads over their server so that the ads become undistinguishable from real content.
They need to set this up with the ad-provider of course.
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On June 20 2014 10:20 micronesia wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2014 06:38 madals wrote:
People who use adblock & don't subscribe / donate are not watching for free. They are costing the vast majority of content producers money to entertain them. I took this as your thesis, but you don't ever back it up. How are viewers who don't partake in ads costing you money? If a particular cheepskate viewer were to stop viewing, would your expenses suddenly go down? I guess indirectly you could argue that the burden goes on to the streaming service, which eventually gets passed on to you in decreased earnings from other viewers, but that would be kind of grasping at straws. I guess the point is "Don't watch my stream for free... at least watch some ads to help cover the costs of providing this service to you."
To further your reading of the situation, it's like setting up a toll-booth with a well-known and widely-adopted detour and claiming that everyone that takes the detour (instead of paying the toll) costs you money.
Perhaps even more to the point: if you rely on ads for income, you are automatically deciding that users who use adblock etc. are not your target audience. Sure you can occasionally change someone's mind, but people who block ads will generally keep blocking ads. You'd never have gotten money from them anyway, and statistically speaking you won't get money from them in the future either.
If you're ad-based, you're trying to reach and appeal to users who watch ads. If you try to appeal to e.g. a very tech-savvy audience, a very high percentage of them are going to use ad-blocking techniques - and you will need to pursue a different revenue stream.
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The way how I see content producers is that they are providing something for the community that they want and get rewarded for it. good example of this would be day9 who started his show that about stratigy and improvement which there was little content on at that time in audio/video.
I think the biggest thing that some people don't understand is that the community OWS YOU NOTHING! so if you want to make content producing your income expect a long road of growing your fanbase organicly.
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To further your reading of the situation, it's like setting up a toll-booth with a well-known and widely-adopted detour and claiming that everyone that takes the detour (instead of paying the toll) costs you money.
Not at all, it is like setting up a toll-booth and getting annoyed at people driving straight through it, on your toll road without paying.
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On June 20 2014 19:10 urboss wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2014 18:46 Dingodile wrote:On June 20 2014 15:04 urboss wrote:
Can someone explain to me:
Why is there no way for twitch.tv to deal with adblockers?
This should be an easy problem to solve... They can but they dont do it because viewers will be decreased extremely. That is not an argument.
There is a shitton of ads on TV, that doesnt prevent people from watching it.Would you stop watching GSL just because there are two ads every hour? I can't see why twitch.tv cannot stream the ads over their server so that the ads become undistinguishable from real content. They need to set this up with the ad-provider of course.
You are very wrong sir.
Germany noticed that if channel1 is showing ads, bigger part of viewers switch asap to other channel and come back after ~8minutes (per ad takes 8minutes). Thats why every channel show ads in the same time (~1min difference) for few years. Well, it seems you are in Austria, you should have access to german channels, try. dat German efficiency I know.
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You are right, ads run at the same time for TV stations that belong to the same media group.
However, this is not an argument as to why twitch allows adblockers.
If ads were such a big issue, there wouldn't be any ads at all on TV.
Likewise, if ads were such a big issue on twitch, there wouldn't be any ads at all.
If as a viewer you have the alternatives to watch Stephano with ads or not watching anything at all, which one are you gonna choose?
If there is quality content, ads are an important way to monetize it.
Ads are the only reason why most of the content on the internet is free.
Removing the ads (in the form of adblockers) will eventually result in removing the content.
People can choose between quality content with ads or no content at all.
There is no need to allow AdBlock!
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On June 20 2014 19:10 urboss wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2014 18:46 Dingodile wrote:On June 20 2014 15:04 urboss wrote:
Can someone explain to me:
Why is there no way for twitch.tv to deal with adblockers?
This should be an easy problem to solve... They can but they dont do it because viewers will be decreased extremely. That is not an argument. There is a shitton of ads on TV, that doesnt prevent people from watching it. Would you stop watching GSL just because there are two ads every hour? I can't see why twitch.tv cannot stream the ads over their server so that the ads become undistinguishable from real content. They need to set this up with the ad-provider of course.
wrong, I find ads so annoying on TV (mostly US channels) that I just wait for someone to upload the show and watch it on my computer slightly later (even though, I have those US channels on my TV directly). I mean 4 or 5 ads for a 20 minutes episode is downright annoying!
Twitch is laggy for me, and I dont want to add ads to that problem. For SPL on youtube I turn adbolck off, but for any twitch stream I do not.
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On June 20 2014 20:00 urboss wrote:
You are right, ads run at the same time for TV stations that belong to the same media group.
However, this is not an argument as to why twitch allows adblockers.
If ads were such a big issue, there wouldn't be any ads at all on TV.
Likewise, if ads were such a big issue on twitch, there wouldn't be any ads at all.
If as a viewer you have the alternatives to watch Stephano with ads or not watching anything at all, which one are you gonna choose?
If there is quality content, ads are an important way to monetize it.
Ads are the only reason why most of the content on the internet is free.
Removing the ads (in the form of adblockers) will eventually result in removing the content.
People can choose between quality content with ads or no content at all.
There is no need to allow AdBlock!
tbh tv ads are far from beeing as intrusive as internet ads
ppl ad block for confort
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I've been meaning to ask this for a while, but never got around to it, so I might as well post it here.
Tech people: is there any reason why someone can't create an adblock program that blocks the ad for the viewer, but still "counts" the ad as having been viewed on the advertiser's end? It seems to me like a win-win solution, but is it technically possible? If not, why not?
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On June 20 2014 20:22 FuRong wrote:
I've been meaning to ask this for a while, but never got around to it, so I might as well post it here.
Tech people: is there any reason why someone can't create an adblock program that blocks the ad for the viewer, but still "counts" the ad as having been viewed on the advertiser's end? It seems to me like a win-win solution, but is it technically possible? If not, why not?
you do realise that what you propose actually beats the purpose of advertising ?
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Nothing is truly free in this World.
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Twitch is laggy for me, and I dont want to add ads to that problem. For SPL on youtube I turn adbolck off, but for any twitch stream I do not.
The reason Twitch is laggy is likely down to not enough infrastructure to send you the video. To get money infrastructure they need money and their sole form of income is advertising. By turning on adblock, you make twitch worse?
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On June 20 2014 19:22 madals wrote:Show nested quote +To further your reading of the situation, it's like setting up a toll-booth with a well-known and widely-adopted detour and claiming that everyone that takes the detour (instead of paying the toll) costs you money. Not at all, it is like setting up a toll-booth and getting annoyed at people driving straight through it, on your toll road without paying.
I realize it's hard for you to step back and take a dispassionate look at this issue. What you're missing is that driving through your toll booth without paying and taking the detour are exactly the same thing as far as you're concerned. The exact same sequence of events happen. People get to The Destination (whatever that is) without giving up anything in return.
You simply should not be relying on people that use ad-blocking mechanisms to... not use those mechanisms. Would you open an extremely expensive boutique shop in a statistically very poor part of a city? Would you complain that people that came into your store interested in your goods but left without buying anything are too poor? It's the same kind of business logic. There is a demographic you're looking for. Focus on that demographic. Trying to convince other demographics that they're living life the wrong way is going to meet with limited success.
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Sounds like you think I use adblock? Wrong.
I have complained that TakeTV doesnt send ads during breaks.
You should think about other side. If you see HuK, you see EG & Monster Energy Logo etc. If Twitch makes Adblock useless and suddenly Huk or Demuslim only have 100 viewers, I dont think it is a great thing for Twitch and EG, Monster etc.
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On June 20 2014 20:45 DefMatrixUltra wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2014 19:22 madals wrote:To further your reading of the situation, it's like setting up a toll-booth with a well-known and widely-adopted detour and claiming that everyone that takes the detour (instead of paying the toll) costs you money. Not at all, it is like setting up a toll-booth and getting annoyed at people driving straight through it, on your toll road without paying. I realize it's hard for you to step back and take a dispassionate look at this issue. What you're missing is that driving through your toll booth without paying and taking the detour are exactly the same thing as far as you're concerned. The exact same sequence of events happen. People get to The Destination (whatever that is) without giving up anything in return. You simply should not be relying on people that use ad-blocking mechanisms to... not use those mechanisms. Would you open an extremely expensive boutique shop in a statistically very poor part of a city? Would you complain that people that came into your store interested in your goods but left without buying anything are too poor? It's the same kind of business logic. There is a demographic you're looking for. Focus on that demographic. Trying to convince other demographics that they're living life the wrong way is going to meet with limited success.
Ah, one of the few enlightened ones.
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On June 20 2014 20:30 madals wrote:Show nested quote +Twitch is laggy for me, and I dont want to add ads to that problem. For SPL on youtube I turn adbolck off, but for any twitch stream I do not. The reason Twitch is laggy is likely down to not enough infrastructure to send you the video. To get money infrastructure they need money and their sole form of income is advertising. By turning on adblock, you make twitch worse?
Turbo and Subscriptions.
Foreword on Adblock
I agree, using Adblock sucks.
Either watch the stream and watch ads/use turbo/subscribe to the channel (if possible), or don't watch at all. Using Adblock is just leaching.
The Problem With Ads
My issue is with the ads themselves.
On a lot of sites, the ads take up more bandwidth than the content I want to view (I'm pretty confident TL falls into this with some of their video-like ads), which is just absurd.
When on a stream: I choose how I watch my content - I can choose the quality, I can choose the volume, etc.
I also want to choose how I watch my ads. As it stands, my stream can be on quietly and suddenly a blaring ad comes out and scares the crap out of me (MLG I'm looking at you here). Sometimes I'm on shonky internet and I can only watch a stream at low/med. Suddenly a 720p ad turns up and lags all over the place while being unskippable (nothing like having a 30 second ad take 3 minutes to play) or worse crashes my browser (some ads have done this) and suddenly I'm stuck watching it again because I've reloaded the stream and can't do so without watching another laggy/crashy ad.
What Makes an Ad Bad?
Ads themselves are fine as long as they're not obstrusive. Passive ads, or ads that follow my stream settings are fine. However, this is rarely the case and is getting to the point where the ad is OVER TWO MINUTES LONG unless I get up and interact with it to turn it off.
Internet TV vs "Regular" TV
When watching regular TV, there are, as you say, 10 minutes of ads per hour at least. However, usually they are at well defined breaks. Either:
- The show flat out stops and restarts, meaning you're guaranteed to miss nothing
- Nothing happens of note in the break
- The show itself continues in a small picture in picture format (I think there's an NZ F1 show that does this).
The ads themselves:
- Are at the volume you set your TV to
- Don't break your TV if you still have a CRT TV (that's the closest analogy I can think of to super high bandwidth ad killing my internet)
- Are short and non-interactive
Also, when I turn on the TV, the first thing I see is NOT AN AD. It's the show. The first ad I see is a scheduled ad when the show breaks, not one that shows because I've been watching for 15 seconds. The ones Twitch shows at that time are often the 2.5 minute long ones. These suck when you're coming home from work and want to catch how a game is doing.
Of course, with TV channels, they don't get paid PER AD WATCHED. Advertisers pay the channel to play the ad before the ad campaign goes on air.
The Argument For Adblock
The argument for Adblock is similar to that of the argument for piracy in that using Adblock makes my viewing experience better. As long as this is true, people will use ad blocking scripts (some will use it anyway, but more will use it as long as the ads are obnoxious).
Should I Have Ads Integrated In My Stream?
Something DH streams do is have sponsor ads playing in the stream. This is great for you, but means Twitch gets no money (as far as I'm aware) from this. However, I was watching GSL and they had twitch ads playing over their ads! I've no idea how that's worked out.
In all I would avoid that, unless you've agreed a cut to twitch for doing that.
What About Donations?
I think that's largely the same. Twitch gets nothing from that, either.
So What Can I Do?
In short, I don't know. You're not in control of the ads your streaming host plays and, as long as the ads are loud, bandwidth heavy and interactive, people are going to want to make them go away.
It sucks that, at the moment, you are getting punished for people turning their ads off.
This Post Was Pretty Pointless
Yeah, largely. Sorry. I can sympathise with the frustrations of losing out to adblock, but the ads are so annoying the only other option is not to watch at all.
There are only so many times I can get up to make a cup of tea with a 150 second ad for a cereal goes on at full volume.
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On June 20 2014 23:50 Gowerly wrote:Show nested quote +On June 20 2014 20:30 madals wrote:Twitch is laggy for me, and I dont want to add ads to that problem. For SPL on youtube I turn adbolck off, but for any twitch stream I do not. The reason Twitch is laggy is likely down to not enough infrastructure to send you the video. To get money infrastructure they need money and their sole form of income is advertising. By turning on adblock, you make twitch worse? When on a stream: I choose how I watch my content - I can choose the quality, I can choose the volume, etc.
I also want to choose how I watch my ads. As it stands, my stream can be on quietly and suddenly a blaring ad comes out and scares the crap out of me (MLG I'm looking at you here).
THIS!!!! everybody who I talked to has this problem aswell. if they fixed this i wouldn't mind turning of addblock
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The very idea of advertisement is perverse and we owe it to ourselves to avoid it. You can support content without watching adds and if you run adds that people cant avoid a huge number of people will avoid your content and you will never get any revenue.
Compare the advertising in streams to television. A huge number of us don't watch television and any of that content we do watch tends to be streamed or recorded with the adverts cut out. Why would we want to make things worse because that is the traditional method of monetizing content?
Digital media is a chance to tell advertising to get the fuck out of our lives and instead you beg for it.
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Here is how it works:
Twitch has a contract with an ad-provider that serves ads on demand.
That means, the ad server is on a different domain than the twitch streaming server.
This is why the ad experience is so crappy on twitch.
And that is also why AdBlock can block the ads in the first place.
All AdBlock does is to block certain web domains that are known to serve ads.
Now, if twitch were to stream the ads from their own server, they could control the ad experience and AdBlock would have no way of distinguishing ads from real content.
This is ridiculously easy to set up and would be a win-win-win situation for twitch, for the ad-provider and for the streamers.
So I have no clue why they are not doing it.
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because they want a viewership
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EPT
