BIG EDIT: As many have pointed out, my math isn't perfect - costs over time decrease etc etc. My point is that no matter what the content is, it costs something to produce - adblock MASSIVELY reduces the revenue generated from ads, and this is especially harmful to smaller streams that don't have other methods to generate money
There have been a couple of topics on various social medias on the last couple of days regarding stream ads and, more specifically, ad block. I had responded to a few but think a longer blog would be a better format.
People who use adblock & don't subscribe / donate are not watching for free. They are costing the vast majority of content producers money to entertain them.
May seem extreme right? But let's look at the facts. *note, this is based on small and medium sized streams - those with large commercial sponsors may have different experiences*
Let's get one this straight here, ANY content production costs money to stream. The better quality the stream, the more money it will cost to produce. So what does it cost, not including "time" - below is a rough breakdown of my expenses. I am only including content I produce off my own back, nothing I get paid to do.
* High quality internet connection £40/month * Electricity for my PC, lighting, monitors - call it 1kW per hour for easy math. (13p/h) * Equipment (in the last year I have spent around £2500 minimum) * Any prize money for events I put on myself
Now lets look at "free" content I produce, say I only cast Go4SC2 monday - every week for a year. That is 52 shows, 4 hours ish per show
Now, lets work purely on advertising revenue to cover those costs. To put it in easier terms, per hour of broadcast I would need to generate £14.40 (if I only did Go4SC2 on a Monday night) for this to be cost neutral.
I cannot give figures on CPM's, but you can all speculate how many ad impressions it would take to make that much money.
There is plenty to argue in the way of I do it for fun, I enjoy it etc etc. Obviously I do and that is why I am happy to spend my time and effort casting and making content. However, if I am watching 4 hours of content from someone for free, someone who is using 4 hours of their evening to provide me with entertainment, the least I can do is watch 3-5mins of adverts an hour in the hope it wont cost them money as well as their time.
If you went to the cinema for example, 3 hours there (which has pre-roll adverts too) would cost me around £9. However, production quality is far far higher. Watching a TV show (live, not streamed) = at least 10mins of adverts per hour.
Note: as I said before, this is all based on a hypothetical situation for a small to medium sized stream running with recent production value. Obviously many other factors play into revenue generation and costs - especially on a per hour basis!
The facts you're stating are sound. But what is the point you're making?
You're not a professional streamer - you're a hobby streamer. Hobbys cost money - breaking news. Expecting your bi weekly golf round to be break even is .... obviously not smart? The fact that you're providing value (content) with that hobby doesn't change it's nature and shouldn't give you any financial expectation.
Obviously you're aware of this and most others are too. A monetary calculation (especially one that basically proves that you're paying absolutely normal hobby-money for this) won't change anyone's mind about adblock.
Good content that people love and identify with will always get the support it deserves. As soon as a community develops, they are probably going to turn off adblock for you, especially if you ask them personally. And it's well known that people are willing to donate and subscribe to their streamers of choice.
And lastly, I obviously don't support adblock. But there are 134084318 good arguments for turning it off / whitelisting sites like TL and Twitch, and now you added one more. But arguments never convinced someone in a matter of convenience like this one - it has to become felt and intuitive.
Sounds like Twitch pays now much much less than 2011?!
I remember people asked Millenium.Stephano why he didnt play Go4SC2 and other online cups anymore. He responded "I make much more money with streaming than winning 100€", consider that he didnt stream ~8h at a stretch.
Are you claiming that you wouldn't have a decent internet connection or electricity if you didn't stream? How can you claim that this is a 'cost of streaming'? Also, how do you calculate the huge sum of 2500 pounds for equipment? Computer parts? A microphone? Yearly? I'd love to hear where that huge sum of money comes from.
You should become a lobbyist maddels, combining nice facts with wrong statements
These adblockconsumers like me dont cost you money at all because you knew beforehand which percentage of your viewers would watch your show with adblock turned on. Your real problem is that you would like too atleast break even, defining problems is key to solving them. Now, if you want to atleast break even, i'd say cut costs or get more revenue in whatever solution(s) seems best.
So you need a 2500 pound computer per year and your internet exclusively and only to cast Go4SC2 Monday? Solid calculation. And if it is really true... Well.. you better change your hobby profession as it surely wont cover those expenses.
I don't think his point was the actual cost of production, only that it does cost money (and time), and as viewers we should respect the cost.
Although I don't entirely disagree with him, I find this post will probably receive some negative backlash.
For one thing, many others have already pointed out the flaws in his calculations (i.e. equipment cost was necessary regardless of streaming content; equipment cost will go down the longer its used, etc.).
As well, it comes off as kind of whiney. I don't think it is the appropriate way to encourage viewers to turn off adblock.
On June 20 2014 06:38 madals wrote: People who use adblock & don't subscribe / donate are not watching for free. They are costing the vast majority of content producers money to entertain them.
I took this as your thesis, but you don't ever back it up. How are viewers who don't partake in ads costing you money? If a particular cheepskate viewer were to stop viewing, would your expenses suddenly go down? I guess indirectly you could argue that the burden goes on to the streaming service, which eventually gets passed on to you in decreased earnings from other viewers, but that would be kind of grasping at straws.
I guess the point is "Don't watch my stream for free... at least watch some ads to help cover the costs of providing this service to you."
If you have high fixed costs (equipment), you need a large volume (hours streaming) to make your "business" more profitable. Also I'm pretty sure you'd have the same PC even if you were not streaming so...
People consistently watching twitch streams (with ad-only income) with adblock on are using this tool in an unfair way. Its a parasitic behaviour. There are tons of services and tools (including adblock) that are free, but most of them would not be out there without donations or ad income. So if you keep adblock on all the time, and never donate (or subscribe, or something else) you are a parasite. Taking advantage of other people good will.
Not that I actually know your content, but I assume this is some sc2 related stream?
What is your point? You're giving a hypothetical example of what?
None of your costs are related to your streaming exclusively, unless you have a separate pc and internet connection for your non-streaming related life. Your equipment seems redic expensive, what are you buying an alienware every year?
Adblock isn't costing you money, that wasn't money you had to begin with. You can only calculate revenue from viewers you can actually presume to get money from in the first place. When you calculate market-share you don't calculate people who don't buy your products in other sectors either.
If donations/subscriptions don't cover your costs, maybe you should reconsider why you're streaming, is it for your own enjoyment or are you trying to run a business on this?
Adblock is a choice, and the choice is not to let every marketing firm on the planet spam your brain with junk, if users decide to pay for content that is their choice, you cannot 'force' ads upon someone nor expect it to be a given source of revenue.
If you don't want to rely on adverts then create a pay to view subscription feature, you'll instantly find out how many people actually give 3shits about your stream or not and then can see if its a profitable model.
Glad to see a great discussion going on here, will try and address some of the points! Before I do though, the OP was all about a pretty extreme example - I am fortunate enough that through paid work, revenue, sponsors etc my casting isn't costing me money. Even if it did, I would be able to support the costs. The point of this post isn't that I am in a terrible position, but that many streamers are not in such a fortunate place as I am.
Out of interest, out of the £2500, how much would you have spent anyway on your equipment if you weren't doing any casting?
In the last year, probably around £500max. Looking at the stuff I bought, around £2000 of it is exclusively bought for casting / streaming.
Now, if you want to atleast break even, i'd say cut costs or get more revenue in whatever solution(s) seems best.
I do break even (and make a small amount), this post wasn't specifically for the 1st person, but people (streamers) who may not be in such a fortunate position. But lets look at your points as they are quite a common thought process
- reduce costs: could definitely be done, I don't need a brilliant mic and 1080p/60fps casts to stream. But, nowadays this pretty much the benchmark of "good" stream quality. Anything less and people complain, which would reduce a streams ability to.....
- generate more revenue: How is this done if people are using adblock? With some major sites showing 50%+ useage of adblock, that is probably the biggest increase in potential revenue there is for the majority of streamers. While donations / subscribers / sponsors are always going to give a huge hike to revenue, it isn't something that is within the reach of the vast majority.
I have run out of time replying right now, but will be back later on if people want to keep discussing
On June 20 2014 16:29 madals wrote: Glad to see a great discussion going on here, will try and address some of the points! Before I do though, the OP was all about a pretty extreme example - I am fortunate enough that through paid work, revenue, sponsors etc my casting isn't costing me money. Even if it did, I would be able to support the costs. The point of this post isn't that I am in a terrible position, but that many streamers are not in such a fortunate place as I am.
Now, if you want to atleast break even, i'd say cut costs or get more revenue in whatever solution(s) seems best.
I do break even (and make a small amount), this post wasn't specifically for the 1st person, but people (streamers) who may not be in such a fortunate position. But lets look at your points as they are quite a common thought process
- reduce costs: could definitely be done, I don't need a brilliant mic and 1080p/60fps casts to stream. But, nowadays this pretty much the benchmark of "good" stream quality. Anything less and people complain, which would reduce a streams ability to.....
- generate more revenue: How is this done if people are using adblock? With some major sites showing 50%+ useage of adblock, that is probably the biggest increase in potential revenue there is for the majority of streamers. While donations / subscribers / sponsors are always going to give a huge hike to revenue, it isn't something that is within the reach of the vast majority.
I have run out of time replying right now, but will be back later on if people want to keep discussing
I'd love to see a list of the gear you bought for £2000 that you exclusively need to cast/stream.
On June 20 2014 15:04 urboss wrote: Can someone explain to me: Why is there no way for twitch.tv to deal with adblockers? This should be an easy problem to solve...
On June 20 2014 16:48 Xorphene wrote: I'd love to see a list of the gear you bought for £2000 that you exclusively need to cast/stream.
Sure, brand new streaming PC - £1700. My old PC was able to play all the games I like maxed out, but couldn't stream 1080p/60fps while doing that. It also struggled to locally record while streaming 720/60. Also worth noting, I got about a 20% discount on this PC thanks to some sponsorship / promotion.
New microphone set up: RODE podcaster + stand + shock mount + pop filter = just over £300. Again, I already had a mic but it picked up a lot of plosive sounds and didn't have the best quality - this new mic will hopefully make the viewer experience better My old mic was fine for skype etc for general gaming.
The other £500 was various pieces of hardware / software that I use for things other things as well rather than exclusively casting.
Obviously, these costs are not annual costs and are higher than most years. If I had been on a really tight budget I could have probably found some cheaper solutions, but I am not sure if they would have given the same end product.
Lastly, as I have edited to the top of the OP: As many have pointed out, my math isn't perfect - costs over time decrease etc etc. My point is that no matter what the content is, it costs something to produce - adblock MASSIVELY reduces the revenue generated from ads, and this is especially harmful to smaller streams that don't have other methods to generate money
On June 20 2014 15:04 urboss wrote: Can someone explain to me: Why is there no way for twitch.tv to deal with adblockers? This should be an easy problem to solve...
They can but they dont do it because viewers will be decreased extremely.
If you don't want to rely on adverts then create a pay to view subscription feature, you'll instantly find out how many people actually give 3shits about your stream or not and then can see if its a profitable model.
This is something I have often thought about doing, but there are a few problems with it. Mainly, for various reasons not everyone is able to pay for content, they may not have the money or the ability (no paypal account, etc). For me, I do not want to exclude people who love eSports as much as I do from being able to view content.
EPT
