On May 18 2014 20:16 [BSP]Kain wrote:Hm I don't want to derail this blog, so if this discussion is against micronesia intention then please tell me.
On May 18 2014 13:35 GoTuNk! wrote:There are no professional athletes who are worth anything, aside from Mat Danzig, that are vegans or vegetarians.
Two major things.
First, it's total untrue. Like endy posted there are a lot of athletes including Patrik who is vegan and successful and titled strongman. Also people like Dave Scott who was multiple champion of Ironman (speak for itself!), he won it 6 times, each time on vegan diet, not from ethical reason, but from performance-wise approach also fellow Ironman guy, etc. Also Olympic athletes like Carl Lewis.
Second, saying there there are no vegan/vegetarian athletes is not only wrong, but has a bias flaw. In Western culture, which I'm part of, not eating meat/animal products is something just getting rise in popularity. So it's obvious that the group will be underrepresented in sports, politics, business, because that's the social trend. It's same like people who said (and say...) that minorities are inferior as bosses, etc. because they are underrepresented at the highest points in hierarchy or that women are inferior in many areas in which they were actively and passively being blocked to get to...
On May 18 2014 13:35 GoTuNk! wrote:There are no professional athletes who are worth anything, aside from Mat Danzig, that are vegans or vegetarians.
I'm gonna lift in excess of 90% of the drug tested record in my next competition on powerlifting (unless something unexpected happens), and I can assure you this would be impossible to me without eating meat and whey shakes. There is no way I can consume the amount of protein, fat and cholesterol, creatine, zinc and B12 vitamin required in my sport without eating meat; and I'm a middle weight.
Even if you make up all the studies in the world, the empiric evidence that there are no vegan athletes is just there and irrefutable.
I won't pretend I know a lot about powerlifting. But I know that Patrik that endy mention has world records as vegan. I know about nutrition enough to know that you can get everything you mentioned from other than animal products with the exception of B12 if you live in sterile environment. Also whey shakes you mention are by default vegetarian...
Also regarding creatine if anyone here is interested here in boosting their cognitive performance - it has really good results on you when you are vege. :D Good for SC2 I guess. ;] Link wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creatine#Improved_cognitive_abilityOn May 18 2014 13:35 GoTuNk! wrote:
Science =/= propaganda
On May 18 2014 13:35 GoTuNk! wrote:
As someone educated, you should understand that anyone can make up studies to support the most ridiculous beliefs, specially on complex stuff like nutrition, and should not disregard the value of tradition and experience (not even considering cherry picking data)
For example, the China Study convinced people to start eating dieting high on carbs and avoid fat like the plague, resulting on the obese epidemy the US faces today (HFS and trans fats are what make you fat)
Eh, this again. So let's consider everything a propaganda if that doesn't suit our believes? :/ Cmon. You are using propaganda because you are talking without backing your statements in facts. I sent link to the study and lecture who are not associated with "vegan propaganda ecoterrorists", because I too try to avoid bias on both sides. But saying that everything that they publish in science journal is false because it's not
tradition and experience
is wrong on so many levels...
I will be more than happy if you will show me this bad methodology they have used and "cherry-picking", because if you want to publish in such renowned journal like the one I posted the proper methodology is main important factor. :X
Also you mention tradition, which for sake of this discussion I understand as evolutionary developed habits and preferences. From that point of view you are correct that people prefer meat, especially in colder/more harsh geographical areas, but you need to include facts that:
- most of evolutionary "tradition" of humanity revolved around meat as a luxury that is eaten occasionally and with lot of fruits and plants as main courses
- in modern developed world our preferences haven't changed but the surrounding drastically - you can eat things like sugar, salt, meat as much as you want which in past were not just by the corner. Hence the many diseased considered to be caused by development. And that our organism crave for the taste of it doesn't mean it's healthy, it's just evolution is slow process while technological development is exponential.
Also don't get me wrong, I have nothing against you for eating meat, etc. I don't want to limit other people choices how live their life, it's just that I find some of you statements not true and against everything that my education was about. So it's just stronger than me to not reply sometimes when I see something like that.
Sorry, but I bet you understand. ^^