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United States24744 Posts
On November 01 2013 12:53 Djzapz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2013 12:49 micronesia wrote:
I'm curious how you are deciding which of these concerns are and are not hugely problematic in education. I find education is one of those areas where everyone is somehow an expert on it. It's just what I think. I could be wrong and that's why I advocate for research to determine which methods are good and which aren't. I can easily be wrong, and I hope that if I am, people will find out. If the calculator is as devastating as you say, then sure it's a problem. But the internet opens so many doors.
Yes it definitely does. Those of us in our late 20s or later (I just barely qualify) remember what it was like before you can learn about almost anything for free whenever you want. There is an encyclopedia sitting next to me (~20 books) that hasn't been touched in like 15 years. Why would I open it aside from nostalgia?
On the other hand I've noticed something else. If you told someone in 1980 that soon we would have the ability to carry a computer around with us anywhere that would have pretty much all of human knowledge readily available for recall, they would say that's the most amazing thing ever, and probably not even believe it. Now, we pretty much have that and most people completely take it for granted.
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On November 01 2013 13:01 micronesia wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2013 12:53 Djzapz wrote:On November 01 2013 12:49 micronesia wrote:
I'm curious how you are deciding which of these concerns are and are not hugely problematic in education. I find education is one of those areas where everyone is somehow an expert on it. It's just what I think. I could be wrong and that's why I advocate for research to determine which methods are good and which aren't. I can easily be wrong, and I hope that if I am, people will find out. If the calculator is as devastating as you say, then sure it's a problem. But the internet opens so many doors. Yes it definitely does. Those of us in our late 20s or later (I just barely qualify) remember what it was like before you can learn about almost anything for free whenever you want. There is an encyclopedia sitting next to me (~20 books) that hasn't been touched in like 15 years. Why would I open it aside from nostalgia? On the other hand I've noticed something else. If you told someone in 1980 that soon we would have the ability to carry a computer around with us anywhere that would have pretty much all of human knowledge readily available for recall, they would say that's the most amazing thing ever, and probably not even believe it. Now, we pretty much have that and most people completely take it for granted.
Perhaps our education should take into account that we do in fact have all of human knowledge in our pockets at all time. Perhaps it makes sense, instead of focusing on learning stuff, to spend more time developing our research techniques and our ways to acquire knowledge with the tools that we have.
The fact that we're getting complacent because we have the entire world's knowledge can be bad, but we need to take that into account too. We need to adjust to this new world with our education. Hell, even youtube is a ridiculous amount of knowledge. I've always sucked at mathematics and many years ago I hat trouble with matrices in mathematics and my teacher couldn't help me with them, I just didn't understand the logic. I learned how to deal with basic matrices not with the manual which was useless, not with my teacher who's pedagogy didn't work with me... but with a math teacher on youtube who got through my thick skull. And if he hadn't, 10 more videos were dealing with the same topic.
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On November 01 2013 13:01 micronesia wrote:
On the other hand I've noticed something else. If you told someone in 1980 that soon we would have the ability to carry a computer around with us anywhere that would have pretty much all of human knowledge readily available for recall, they would say that's the most amazing thing ever, and probably not even believe it. Now, we pretty much have that and most people completely take it for granted.
I don't think people take it for granted, they just see it as the new "normal" since pretty much everyone owns a smartphone or tablet. When everyone has Google Glasses or whatever these old smartphones will start collecting dust like how encyclopedias started collecting dust when the internet came to the limelight.
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If there was a time machine and everyone started using it, every time you went back in time, it'd dramatically change because other people are using it as well.
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United States24744 Posts
On November 01 2013 13:29 Djzapz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2013 13:01 micronesia wrote:On November 01 2013 12:53 Djzapz wrote:On November 01 2013 12:49 micronesia wrote:
I'm curious how you are deciding which of these concerns are and are not hugely problematic in education. I find education is one of those areas where everyone is somehow an expert on it. It's just what I think. I could be wrong and that's why I advocate for research to determine which methods are good and which aren't. I can easily be wrong, and I hope that if I am, people will find out. If the calculator is as devastating as you say, then sure it's a problem. But the internet opens so many doors. Yes it definitely does. Those of us in our late 20s or later (I just barely qualify) remember what it was like before you can learn about almost anything for free whenever you want. There is an encyclopedia sitting next to me (~20 books) that hasn't been touched in like 15 years. Why would I open it aside from nostalgia? On the other hand I've noticed something else. If you told someone in 1980 that soon we would have the ability to carry a computer around with us anywhere that would have pretty much all of human knowledge readily available for recall, they would say that's the most amazing thing ever, and probably not even believe it. Now, we pretty much have that and most people completely take it for granted. Perhaps our education should take into account that we do in fact have all of human knowledge in our pockets at all time. Perhaps it makes sense, instead of focusing on learning stuff, to spend more time developing our research techniques and our ways to acquire knowledge with the tools that we have.
I find the research abilities of students seems to be worse than it was before the internet age. Here is an exaggeration of a paper a typical student would hand in when asked to write a research paper explaining why the sky is blue:
Why the Sky is Blue, by Johnny Smith
Rayleigh scattering of sunlight in the atmosphere causes diffuse sky radiation, which is the reason for the blue color of the sky and the yellow tone of the sun itself. Rayleigh scattering, named after the British physicist Lord Rayleigh,[1] is the elastic scattering of light or other electromagnetic radiation by particles much smaller than the wavelength of the light.
Works Cited
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rayleigh_scattering
I'm not even kidding! Instant access to information, of course, does not mean you will understand that information. I think the more readily available information is, the less time a typical kid will be willing to put into analyzing it.
We kinda see the same thing with attention span. Children (and even adults) are used to getting everything they want when they want it. Things like cell phones and computers are probably the major causes, although this has been around since before either were ubiquitous. If someone needs to sit in a waiting room for a while and isn't allowed to use their phone or watch tv they go mad... that isn't how people used to be, typically.
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On November 01 2013 13:37 micronesia wrote:
I'm not even kidding! Instant access to information, of course, does not mean you will understand that information. I think the more readily available information is, the less time a typical kid will be willing to put into analyzing it.
We kinda see the same thing with attention span. Children (and even adults) are used to getting everything they want when they want it. Things like cell phones and computers are probably the major causes, although this has been around since before either were ubiquitous. If someone needs to sit in a waiting room for a while and isn't allowed to use their phone or watch tv they go mad... that isn't how people used to be, typically.
Typical kids don't need to do research, and that's clearly an extreme case.
Here, we're taught to do research, and when we go for it, something good comes out because we have access to the latest and most thorough papers and news from all over the world on the topic. Not just the readily available books and periodicals, not just the local newspaper... We have everything. Sure we can write pieces of shit too. We've always been able to do that.
Our ability to have access to the greatest and latest is truly phenomenal and when we do write good papers, they're up to date, thorough and based on multiple sources.
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United States24744 Posts
On November 01 2013 13:45 Djzapz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2013 13:37 micronesia wrote:
I'm not even kidding! Instant access to information, of course, does not mean you will understand that information. I think the more readily available information is, the less time a typical kid will be willing to put into analyzing it.
We kinda see the same thing with attention span. Children (and even adults) are used to getting everything they want when they want it. Things like cell phones and computers are probably the major causes, although this has been around since before either were ubiquitous. If someone needs to sit in a waiting room for a while and isn't allowed to use their phone or watch tv they go mad... that isn't how people used to be, typically. Typical kids don't need to do research, and that's clearly an extreme case. While I agree not every kid really needs to be able to write a good/serious research paper, I do believe being able to do research well is important for everyone.
Here, we're taught to do research, and when we go for it, something good comes out because we have access to the latest and most thorough papers and news from all over the world on the topic. Not just the readily available books and periodicals, not just the local newspaper... We have everything. Having access to more sources also requires more effort and skill with regard to identifying which information to use and how to use it. Like other things we discussed earlier, this means there is improved potential for quality, but not necessarily improved quality overall.
Our ability to have access to the greatest and latest is truly phenomenal and when we do write good papers, they're up to date, thorough and based on multiple sources.
Global collaboration is truly an amazing thing.
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Not you again OP. 1/5 again, poor attempt #1001
If time-traveling was possible than it would do a huge more deal than destroying education. And as other person before said, it will never be invented because it would exist in all times if it did. I mean, what is the first thing you would do if you were a time-traveller? I'm pretty sure what I'd do. Travel back in time, win few lotteries and live a happy and quite life playing SC2 pro (since I don't have need for money anyway). Does any of the lottery-winners/top sc2 players/ etc etc seem to be time-travellers? I don't think so. Your just a paranoid 15/16yr old that keeps making non-sensical threads/blogs all the time.
Let's ignore this time-travelling idiocy from yours, let's assume machines in future will be way more advanced. This can only be good for our education since it would be 1000x more times easier to obtain knowledge and use it. I mean, nowadays we can look any info up we need to broaden our knowledge for goal X/Y. Filtering the good from the bad info is the hardest, but this doesn't mean it wasn't in the past.. I mean, going to library and look into books and filter them to find the info you need takes lots of time you could be using finding other knowledge through the technology we have today. And in contrary of what teachers/professors say, just because something is written in a book doesn't mean it's bad. It all depends on how you filter the collective information from the internet.
Why are you posting these kinds of blogs anyway? No friends to discuss such topics? I'm pretty sure what kind of person you are within your class (based on your blogging/username).
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On November 01 2013 11:42 Djzapz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2013 11:16 sam!zdat wrote:
all you need to teach someone is books and time Books are great but they're limited. They have to be published, bought, shipped, they have to be with you physically. Some are dated, not so relevant... Pdfs, online articles, peer reviewed papers, can be on my computer in the hours after they were published. Surely books can't be dismissed, they're of extreme importance - but to say that they're all we need does leave out a ridiculous amount of knowledge.
fetishism of novelty
very little you can learn from papers published hours ago that you can't learn from reading plato and arguing about it
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On the topic of calculators,
I have tried teaching 18 year olds how to do basic math (addition/subtraction/multiplication/division of 2 digit integers) because they've used calculators their entire lives and couldn't do such math by hand. Except they didn't even know to use the calculators when things involved order of operations. It was very sad.
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Luddites, all of you.
On November 01 2013 17:36 KazeHydra wrote:
On the topic of calculators,
I have tried teaching 18 year olds how to do basic math (addition/subtraction/multiplication/division of 2 digit integers) because they've used calculators their entire lives and couldn't do such math by hand. Except they didn't even know to use the calculators when things involved order of operations. It was very sad.
This is a failure with the education system. A student didn't understand order of operations but didn't get the help they needed to learn it or were not motivated enough to put in the effort needed to learn it. A teacher could have easily made a no calculators test to make sure the students learned what they needed to. Make it work through software, and the software can spend time to make sure that any adequately motivated student can learn the subject.
On November 01 2013 13:37 micronesia wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2013 13:29 Djzapz wrote:On November 01 2013 13:01 micronesia wrote:On November 01 2013 12:53 Djzapz wrote:On November 01 2013 12:49 micronesia wrote:
I'm curious how you are deciding which of these concerns are and are not hugely problematic in education. I find education is one of those areas where everyone is somehow an expert on it. It's just what I think. I could be wrong and that's why I advocate for research to determine which methods are good and which aren't. I can easily be wrong, and I hope that if I am, people will find out. If the calculator is as devastating as you say, then sure it's a problem. But the internet opens so many doors. Yes it definitely does. Those of us in our late 20s or later (I just barely qualify) remember what it was like before you can learn about almost anything for free whenever you want. There is an encyclopedia sitting next to me (~20 books) that hasn't been touched in like 15 years. Why would I open it aside from nostalgia? On the other hand I've noticed something else. If you told someone in 1980 that soon we would have the ability to carry a computer around with us anywhere that would have pretty much all of human knowledge readily available for recall, they would say that's the most amazing thing ever, and probably not even believe it. Now, we pretty much have that and most people completely take it for granted. Perhaps our education should take into account that we do in fact have all of human knowledge in our pockets at all time. Perhaps it makes sense, instead of focusing on learning stuff, to spend more time developing our research techniques and our ways to acquire knowledge with the tools that we have. I find the research abilities of students seems to be worse than it was before the internet age. Here is an exaggeration of a paper a typical student would hand in when asked to write a research paper explaining why the sky is blue:
Why the Sky is Blue, by Johnny SmithRayleigh scattering of sunlight in the atmosphere causes diffuse sky radiation, which is the reason for the blue color of the sky and the yellow tone of the sun itself. Rayleigh scattering, named after the British physicist Lord Rayleigh,[1] is the elastic scattering of light or other electromagnetic radiation by particles much smaller than the wavelength of the light. Works Citedhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rayleigh_scattering
I'm not even kidding! Instant access to information, of course, does not mean you will understand that information. I think the more readily available information is, the less time a typical kid will be willing to put into analyzing it. We kinda see the same thing with attention span. Children (and even adults) are used to getting everything they want when they want it. Things like cell phones and computers are probably the major causes, although this has been around since before either were ubiquitous. If someone needs to sit in a waiting room for a while and isn't allowed to use their phone or watch tv they go mad... that isn't how people used to be, typically.
That's just an example of a lazy kid who copied Wikipedia and didn't understand any of the subject. What would happen if he had to use a book? He now has to go to the library during library hours, wasting 40(for me, more for other students) minutes walking to and from class to the library. Now he has to search for a book on Rayleigh scattering. If he can't find one he's wasted time and has to go to another library. Once he finds a book on the subject he can still copy the subject matter.
Luddites all of you. You don't have any reasons for why technology is ruining education. You just fear it.
On November 01 2013 09:55 NeuroticPsychosis wrote:Of course, technology brings many advantages and benefits to students. With the ubiquitous spread of the internet in the modern day, people have virtually unlimited access to vast resources for disseminating knowledge and promoting learning. Armed with smartphones and tablets, society has never been more interconnected and certainly one of the most powerful tools enabled by technology is this collaborative aspect. However, technology also brings with it nefarious capabilities that threaten to undermine the very social fabric of our sacred institutions. One of these concerns is that technology can contribute to cheating. And the more technology advances the more difficult it becomes for teachers or administrators to discern the cheating. A hypothetical example, suppose that time machines are invented in the near future. One of my professors posts the correct answers to his exam questions the day after we take the exam. Today while in the bathroom I was pondering how easy and convenient it would be to simply use the time machine to travel into the future (1 day after the exam), print out the correct answers, return to present day, input the correct answers into my Google glasses disguised as ordinary glasses, and copy down the correct answers on the day of the exam directly from the inside of my lens. I know what you're thinking. Time travel has many potentially disastrous implications and ramifications. If you travel through time you have the risk of affecting something or someone so that an entire series of chain reactions are set off, impacting other people or the course of history in unexpected ways. But just printing out the answers doesn't really seem dangerous in that regard. ________________________________________________________________________ Yes, the reason I'm writing this is because I just got back my grade and I did bomb the exam.  And I know there are probably way more compelling arguments (or ones that aren't "out there") to prove my point but I don't really care.
You can say internet usage is ubiquitious but ubiquitous means found everywhere. It's not the right word. Saying "in the modern day" is verbose.
I don't think nefarious is the right word either. Technology has no evil intentions.
How are our institutions sacred?
The social fabric of schools, not institutions, is how people communicate with one another. The social factor in schools is improved. Your opener should talk about ethics if your concern is cheating.
"Discern the cheating" is awkward.
As you mentioned yourself, your example is too "out there." It doesn't help to prove your point.
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On November 01 2013 09:55 NeuroticPsychosis wrote:Of course, technology brings many advantages and benefits to students. With the ubiquitous spread of the internet in the modern day, people have virtually unlimited access to vast resources for disseminating knowledge and promoting learning. Armed with smartphones and tablets, society has never been more interconnected and certainly one of the most powerful tools enabled by technology is this collaborative aspect. However, technology also brings with it nefarious capabilities that threaten to undermine the very social fabric of our sacred institutions. One of these concerns is that technology can contribute to cheating. And the more technology advances the more difficult it becomes for teachers or administrators to discern the cheating. A hypothetical example, suppose that time machines are invented in the near future. One of my professors posts the correct answers to his exam questions the day after we take the exam. Today while in the bathroom I was pondering how easy and convenient it would be to simply use the time machine to travel into the future (1 day after the exam), print out the correct answers, return to present day, input the correct answers into my Google glasses disguised as ordinary glasses, and copy down the correct answers on the day of the exam directly from the inside of my lens. I know what you're thinking. Time travel has many potentially disastrous implications and ramifications. If you travel through time you have the risk of affecting something or someone so that an entire series of chain reactions are set off, impacting other people or the course of history in unexpected ways. But just printing out the answers doesn't really seem dangerous in that regard. ________________________________________________________________________ Yes, the reason I'm writing this is because I just got back my grade and I did bomb the exam. And I know there are probably way more compelling arguments (or ones that aren't "out there") to prove my point but I don't really care.
In the real world you do all your learning by "cheating". I think I have learned more by cheating than by studying. I am someone who needs an answer before I do the working out, it gives my learning purpose.
Highschool and Primary school education is an absolute joke by today's standards. We still do things on paper, and technology is leveraged in the dumbest ways possible in terms of education. There is so many ways we can use technology to enhance learning, and all we have gotten to is LMS's which just makes life more difficult.
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... This Topic seems pretty stupid to me, you might as well start others with titles like:
"Horses --> Cars/Public Transport are destroying human movement capabilities"
"Medicine is bad for the genepool"
"Restaurants are destroying Cooking"
....
I do a a higher education (accounting) atm and they force us to only use calculators, no Notebooks... It's so far off from what we actually need at our Job, sure it's nice to know "how it's actually done"... But it's basically just useless knowledge.
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On November 01 2013 19:43 obesechicken13 wrote:Luddites, all of you. Show nested quote +On November 01 2013 17:36 KazeHydra wrote:
On the topic of calculators,
I have tried teaching 18 year olds how to do basic math (addition/subtraction/multiplication/division of 2 digit integers) because they've used calculators their entire lives and couldn't do such math by hand. Except they didn't even know to use the calculators when things involved order of operations. It was very sad. This is a failure with the education system. A student didn't understand order of operations but didn't get the help they needed to learn it or were not motivated enough to put in the effort needed to learn it. A teacher could have easily made a no calculators test to make sure the students learned what they needed to. Make it work through software, and the software can spend time to make sure that any adequately motivated student can learn the subject.
Oh, I completely agree. My point - and my fault for not bothering to explain why I wrote that - is that even with the existence of technology, there are still people who can't even learn how to use said technology. Do you blame technology for their inability to use technology? Sure, there are definitely downsides to technology but there're more things going on than just that, and I think it's impossible to discuss "technology's effects on education" alone. The fault lies with a lot of parties, and the education system is pretty bad for allowing such students to graduate from high school with such abysmal mathematical skills. For the record, it may not be the teachers' fault when the higher ups are the ones basically forcing the teachers to pass these students; I have witnessed students getting passing grades for merely doing work, regardless of whether it was right or wrong because "the important thing is that they try" (I could go on a long rant about California's public education system [k-12] but that would be quite the tangent).
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United States24744 Posts
On November 01 2013 19:43 obesechicken13 wrote:Luddites, all of you. Show nested quote +On November 01 2013 17:36 KazeHydra wrote:
On the topic of calculators,
I have tried teaching 18 year olds how to do basic math (addition/subtraction/multiplication/division of 2 digit integers) because they've used calculators their entire lives and couldn't do such math by hand. Except they didn't even know to use the calculators when things involved order of operations. It was very sad. This is a failure with the education system. A student didn't understand order of operations but didn't get the help they needed to learn it or were not motivated enough to put in the effort needed to learn it. A teacher could have easily made a no calculators test to make sure the students learned what they needed to. Except for the fact that their supervisors might have told them they can't (happens), or a kid might have special permission to always have a calculator available, or one of several other weird possible causes. Still a failure on the part of the educational system? Probably yes.
Of course like you said the problem also can lie with the student, or their parents, or somewhere else.
Show nested quote +On November 01 2013 13:37 micronesia wrote:On November 01 2013 13:29 Djzapz wrote:On November 01 2013 13:01 micronesia wrote:On November 01 2013 12:53 Djzapz wrote:On November 01 2013 12:49 micronesia wrote:
I'm curious how you are deciding which of these concerns are and are not hugely problematic in education. I find education is one of those areas where everyone is somehow an expert on it. It's just what I think. I could be wrong and that's why I advocate for research to determine which methods are good and which aren't. I can easily be wrong, and I hope that if I am, people will find out. If the calculator is as devastating as you say, then sure it's a problem. But the internet opens so many doors. Yes it definitely does. Those of us in our late 20s or later (I just barely qualify) remember what it was like before you can learn about almost anything for free whenever you want. There is an encyclopedia sitting next to me (~20 books) that hasn't been touched in like 15 years. Why would I open it aside from nostalgia? On the other hand I've noticed something else. If you told someone in 1980 that soon we would have the ability to carry a computer around with us anywhere that would have pretty much all of human knowledge readily available for recall, they would say that's the most amazing thing ever, and probably not even believe it. Now, we pretty much have that and most people completely take it for granted. Perhaps our education should take into account that we do in fact have all of human knowledge in our pockets at all time. Perhaps it makes sense, instead of focusing on learning stuff, to spend more time developing our research techniques and our ways to acquire knowledge with the tools that we have. I find the research abilities of students seems to be worse than it was before the internet age. Here is an exaggeration of a paper a typical student would hand in when asked to write a research paper explaining why the sky is blue:
Why the Sky is Blue, by Johnny SmithRayleigh scattering of sunlight in the atmosphere causes diffuse sky radiation, which is the reason for the blue color of the sky and the yellow tone of the sun itself. Rayleigh scattering, named after the British physicist Lord Rayleigh,[1] is the elastic scattering of light or other electromagnetic radiation by particles much smaller than the wavelength of the light. Works Citedhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rayleigh_scattering
I'm not even kidding! Instant access to information, of course, does not mean you will understand that information. I think the more readily available information is, the less time a typical kid will be willing to put into analyzing it. We kinda see the same thing with attention span. Children (and even adults) are used to getting everything they want when they want it. Things like cell phones and computers are probably the major causes, although this has been around since before either were ubiquitous. If someone needs to sit in a waiting room for a while and isn't allowed to use their phone or watch tv they go mad... that isn't how people used to be, typically. That's just an example of a lazy kid who copied Wikipedia and didn't understand any of the subject. What would happen if he had to use a book? He now has to go to the library during library hours, wasting 40(for me, more for other students) minutes walking to and from class to the library. Now he has to search for a book on Rayleigh scattering. If he can't find one he's wasted time and has to go to another library. Once he finds a book on the subject he can still copy the subject matter.
In actuality, students are apparently better than they ever were before, despite how much we complain. However, in my experience many of the areas where students have fallen back are areas where technology had unintended consequences.
Luddites all of you. You don't have any reasons for why technology is ruining education. You just fear it. Lol I hope you don't really think this. Also it isn't ruining education. However, when technology isn't utilized properly (which is often) it does have negative consequences. We need to continue to use technology as a teaching and learning aid, but just do a better job of it. We also need to be honest about identifying how dependency on technology affects our brains.
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I'm pretty fucking sure that's not an argument at all OP :')
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On November 01 2013 16:13 sam!zdat wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2013 11:42 Djzapz wrote:On November 01 2013 11:16 sam!zdat wrote:
all you need to teach someone is books and time Books are great but they're limited. They have to be published, bought, shipped, they have to be with you physically. Some are dated, not so relevant... Pdfs, online articles, peer reviewed papers, can be on my computer in the hours after they were published. Surely books can't be dismissed, they're of extreme importance - but to say that they're all we need does leave out a ridiculous amount of knowledge. fetishism of novelty very little you can learn from papers published hours ago that you can't learn from reading plato and arguing about it
You're trolling or very misguided. Philosophy has its utilities but we can't just sit with Plato an expect to all of the conclusions that humanity has come to through WORK. Not everything comes through pure intellectual work, sometimes you need to go outside and do stuff. Maybe if you're only looking at modern philosophy but it's clear that you're very narrow-minded. How can plato enlighten me about the social benefits and the implementation of active transportation measures? That's the subject I'm working on.
Not everything is practical. Not everything is part of your philosophy major. There are practical things in life. There are political events that unfold and are difficult to understand. Plato doesn't help with those.
Plato doesn't help very much with the issue of sexism either 
I think it's peculiar that a person who seems to have a background in philosophy would actively limit himself intellectually to that extent just because of an irrational love for physical media.
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Technology is amazing and is a boon to education.
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Do teachers allow their kids to have cellphones in class? Gets way harder to reinforce when they get to high school and college/university. Everything is so easy to look up these days. I remember wikipedia not being allowed in the early days because it wasn't a valid source. >_< Sure, our brains can only retain so much knowledge but I think it's making people very lazy and we're reinforcing bad habits.
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If these 'sacred institutions' are undermined then all the better.
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EPT
