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sam!zdat
United States5559 Posts
I think school should be slightly too hard for everyone involved. just like when you are lifting weights, you should lift weights that are slightly too heavy for you. otherwise you will never get better. there should be a little nagging feeling of inadequacy that accompanies everything you do  | ||
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Recognizable
Netherlands1552 Posts
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Djzapz
Canada10681 Posts
On November 02 2013 06:08 sam!zdat wrote: I spend too much time talking about grades?? I went to a college where they didn't tell you your grades. it was awesome (I'm consistently amused by hearing what you think I believe, dj's construction of sam is such a hilarious and strange person) I think school should be slightly too hard for everyone involved. just like when you are lifting weights, you should lift weights that are slightly too heavy for you. otherwise you will never get better. there should be a little nagging feeling of inadequacy that accompanies everything you do Fine. But I agree with what Recognizable says. If it's too hard, people will give up. If it's harder than it is now, without being better adapted to kids, then we've got a new problem on our hands and it's not better. | ||
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sam!zdat
United States5559 Posts
which brings us back to our original topic. the truth is, if you want to improve education, you don't need technology, you need a lower student/teacher ratio. that's the single most important thing you can do to improve the quality of education | ||
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Deleuze
United Kingdom2102 Posts
On November 02 2013 06:45 sam!zdat wrote: if you want to make people give up this notion that they "can't do math" (which is just a thing that they believe because it's fashionable, not because they actually can't do math) what you should do is give them more individual attention and instruction. which brings us back to our original topic. the truth is, if you want to improve education, you don't need technology, you need a lower student/teacher ratio. that's the single most important thing you can do to improve the quality of education ...and Learning Technology does exactly the opposite! I know, I run Moodles. | ||
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Djzapz
Canada10681 Posts
On November 02 2013 06:45 sam!zdat wrote: if you want to make people give up this notion that they "can't do math" (which is just a thing that they believe because it's fashionable, not because they actually can't do math) what you should do is give them more individual attention and instruction. which brings us back to our original topic. the truth is, if you want to improve education, you don't need technology, you need a lower student/teacher ratio. that's the single most important thing you can do to improve the quality of education Yes, but good teachers are already hard to come by. In the west, we give those jobs to anybody. Teachers for kids, how hard can it really be, right? I think it's in Finland or something, where teachers are properly remunerated and respected as much as doctors. They get shit done. The kids do better than they do here. On November 02 2013 06:52 Deleuze wrote: ...and Learning Technology does exactly the opposite! I know, I run Moodles. Moodle? Or Moodles? | ||
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Deleuze
United Kingdom2102 Posts
On November 02 2013 06:55 Djzapz wrote: Yes, but good teachers are already hard to come by. In the west, we give those jobs to anybody. Teachers for kids, how hard can it really be, right? I think it's in Finland or something, where teachers are properly remunerated and respected as much as doctors. They get shit done. The kids do better than they do here. Moodle? Or Moodles? Moodles is a colloquial plural of courses run on the VLE Moodle. | ||
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Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
On November 02 2013 06:45 sam!zdat wrote: if you want to make people give up this notion that they "can't do math" (which is just a thing that they believe because it's fashionable, not because they actually can't do math) what you should do is give them more individual attention and instruction. which brings us back to our original topic. the truth is, if you want to improve education, you don't need technology, you need a lower student/teacher ratio. that's the single most important thing you can do to improve the quality of education I am completely with you. Stop spending money on new computers, fancy buildings, and diversity training for teachers and just hire more people. On an unrelated note, I wish that it were more common for people to enter college at 16-17 full time. I know many people, including myself, that have effectively been taking fully college-level classes for the past two years. Honestly I feel like the only reason that this doesn't already happen is that there are not enough people doing it to begin with. If it got started through some initiative it could become more common and get kids out of the local system faster, giving more funds to the students who may not do as well academically. Or maybe we should have a developed system of residential state/national level magnet schools. | ||
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sam!zdat
United States5559 Posts
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Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
On November 02 2013 07:53 sam!zdat wrote: I rather think students should start college around 20. Give them a couple of years in between to mature and think about what they are interested in. I would implement a mandatory civil service requirement in this period, but of course that's just because I'm a communist I would implement .5-2 year civil service as well (delayable, though), but that doesn't change the fact that I cannot learn at an adequate pace at my high school. As it stands the expanded curriculum that AP offers does not go far enough to meet the needs of everyone, and still most HS AP classes are very slow since most of them would be taught in one semester at a college, with much less class time. Lengthening HS without big changes to the most advanced classes would simply make high school more stifling to people in a situation similar to mine. For example, right now I would prefer to take organic chemistry, multivariable calculus, and linear algebra in addition to some classes that I am already taking. However, since AP is the gold standard of HS curriculum at most schools, including mine, I simply do not have those options available to me. If you extend the age at which people start college to 20, you better be adding all sorts of advanced programs and courses, and they should be available at a faster pace than the current advanced courses. If people like me had the option to enroll in a university early (I know of one college where that is common, but it's not a school that interests me at all) without being socially disadvantaged I still think education would be better for all parties. I think one of the reasons that this doesn't happen is because school administrations want to hold on to their best students to take credit for their abilities. | ||
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MoltkeWarding
5195 Posts
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sam!zdat
United States5559 Posts
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Chocolate
United States2350 Posts
On November 02 2013 08:21 MoltkeWarding wrote: Revert to the system of the Second German Empire: tripartite educational system with the Gymnasium admitting no more than 5% of the school-aged cohort. In addition to French, Latin, Greek and the classical canon, we can probably fit the educational content of a typical undergraduate education in there. In the bureaucratic scheme of job qualifications, a German Gymnasium diploma in 1900 was the equivalent of something between a Master's and PhD today, but let us not push our luck. We have created a culture where you can explain away poor performance on "not testing well" and where you can muddle any sort of selective process by making it "holistic." Every parent would try to get their children into that program and there would be a lot of controversy. Hell, there's already controversy about the mere existence of magnet schools as "elitist." IDK about Canada, but it would be impossible to have a (I assume) meritocratic system like this in the USA without accusations of preferences to certain groups. Germany had a pretty homogeneous population back then, and people cared less about being PC. The USA is not in that situation. Such a system would be great but I think the public would not accept it. On November 02 2013 08:31 sam!zdat wrote: I didn't say lengthen high school. I think you should take at least one gap year. You can study on your own during this year if you like. You don't need to be in school to learn things, you can supplement this with self-study (and this would be a valuable thing, judging from my own experience). Gap years are a cool idea but I don't know if they are for everyone. I feel like most people would probably just stay at home and work some menial job and party. There's nothing wrong with holding a menial job, but at the same time if you want to get a tertiary education your time would be better spent in school, in my opinion. I know the suggestion is probably to travel but that is not feasible for everyone. And while studying on your own is fine (I am doing it with two of the three courses I mentioned) it's not something that many people have the work ethic and personality to accomplish. I like the way things currently are regarding gap years, where they are allowed but not compulsory. | ||
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Roe
Canada6002 Posts
On November 02 2013 08:31 sam!zdat wrote: I didn't say lengthen high school. I think you should take at least one gap year. You can study on your own during this year if you like. You don't need to be in school to learn things, you can supplement this with self-study (and this would be a valuable thing, judging from my own experience). taking a gap year is actually becoming more common! there's no reason to flat out force it since people are already doing it anyway | ||
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sam!zdat
United States5559 Posts
On November 02 2013 08:38 Roe wrote: taking a gap year is actually becoming more common! there's no reason to flat out force it since people are already doing it anyway right but I would implement a civil service program which serves a number of useful social purposes | ||
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MoltkeWarding
5195 Posts
On November 02 2013 08:36 Chocolate wrote: We have created a culture where you can explain away poor performance on "not testing well" and where you can muddle any sort of selective process by making it "holistic." Every parent would try to get their children into that program and there would be a lot of controversy. Hell, there's already controversy about the mere existence of magnet schools as "elitist." IDK about Canada, but it would be impossible to have a (I assume) meritocratic system like this in the USA without accusations of preferences to certain groups. Germany had a pretty homogeneous population back then, and people cared less about being PC. The USA is not in that situation. Such a system would be great but I think the public would not accept it. In Ontario there is still a de-facto tripartite division of secondary education between academic, applied, and workplace which somewhat corresponds to the modern German system. However, the rate of academic inflation is far more serious in Canada than in Germany. In Germany approximately one-third of the population goes into the Gymnasia, and consequently receives qualifications for higher education. Germany also remains one of the few countries in the Western World where it is still possible to possess a respectable professional career without any academic qualifications, although that is being gradually inflated out of fashion as well. It is merely happening at a much slower rate than elsewhere. Edit: And because I never tire of citing Tocqueville: It is evident that in democratic communities the interest of individuals, as well as the security of the commonwealth, demands that the education of the greater number should be scientific, commercial, and industrial, rather than literary. Greek and Latin should not be taught in all schools; but it is important that those who by their natural disposition or their fortune are destined to cultivate letters or prepared to relish them, should find schools where a complete knowledge of ancient literature may be acquired, and where the true scholar may be formed. A few excellent universities would do more towards the attainment of this object than a vast number of bad grammar schools, where superfluous matters, badly learned, stand in the way of sound instruction in necessary studies. | ||
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Roe
Canada6002 Posts
On November 02 2013 08:44 sam!zdat wrote: right but I would implement a civil service program which serves a number of useful social purposes that's the opposite of a gap year | ||
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sam!zdat
United States5559 Posts
it could be part time, and they give you a stipend | ||
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Dfgj
Singapore5922 Posts
On November 02 2013 10:11 sam!zdat wrote: it could be part time, and they give you a stipend Or it could be mandatory conscription like we have here! Seeing 18yos with no clue what they're doing in college is a guilty pleasure. | ||
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Quintan
3 Posts
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