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On October 08 2013 03:17 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2013 23:48 ticklishmusic wrote:On October 07 2013 17:00 IgnE wrote:
You should only go wherever you can get a free ride. College education is vastly overpriced and you don't learn anything anyway. No piece of paper or name on your resume in this economy or in the future economy will be worth the heaps of debt you would incur by going to a school that lets you in at full or near full cost. You are seriously making a huge mistake if you go to a school that is slightly higher ranked but will cost you actual money. You can learn all you need to know by reading books on your own and/or working in the industry you want to work in. To a point, I agree that college costs way more than is reasonable. On the other hand (unfortunately), connections do matter. For example the big consulting companies only recruit through certain top-ranked schools, so its near-impossible to get an internship from one of them through applying through their website/ off-campus recruiting. The relationships a school's career center with a company, and your relationship with the career center, go a long way towards getting a job. Then there's the people you meet-- go to a more fancy school, chances are you'll go to class with some rich or well-connected people. That kind of stuff isn't solely restricted to business either-- higher ranked schools have better funding for research and stuff and better reps, which will also help you. I don't think its right to go in with the mindset "college is overpriced (it is), I'm going to go for as little as possible". Think of it more as investment-- you will get a certain set of technical knowledge (most of which you will never use), but also memories, friends and connections. It is best to pay something for a decent college you will be happy at rather than be on scholarship at some huge school with 40K people, very few of which are your type. Either way, weigh the costs and benefits carefully. I do ask myself why I didn't just go to some random public school on full scholarship sometimes. Classes would be easy and I would theoretically receive special attention because I'd be honors or something. Still, I would probably have been bored as heck and spent most of my time playing video games and on TL (I'd probably have a much higher post count). My school now is a lot of work (my fault for double-majoring), but I've met a lot of really cool people as well, and gotten to do a few cool things. I'm probably not going to reply for a day or two, as I want to save my 4K post for something a bit more special. Connections only matter if you are going to an ivy or ivy+, are "ambitious", want to get a job in consulting, and are good at networking. Yeah, if you go to an ivy you might get some nice alumni connections for getting in at goldman sachs so you can work 70 hour work weeks for a bigger than usual salary. But why would you want to do that? You are vastly overstating the value of mid tier college's alumni network. It's definitely not worth an extra $20k a year. The most important thing in determining your success after college is figuring out what you want to do, which usually requires figuring out why you want to do it. This is necessarily an individual thing. There is a path that society says will get you what you want: 1. join a bunch of extracurriculars and volunteer so you can get into a good college! 2. apply to all the colleges and go to the best one 3. get into a great college that costs a lot of money, is the most prestigious one you can get into, and has great amenities 4. graduate and get your degree 5. enjoy your high paying job, you are well on your way to the american dream, and you've earned it! here is what it actually is: 1. join a bunch of extracurriculars and volunteer so you can get into an expensive college! 2. apply to a bunch of colleges so you can avoid going to the cheap state option, even though the education is roughly the same for 90% of colleges 3. go to the really expensive college, but you can afford it because of students loans, no biggie 4. graduate in the middle of your class after spending 4 years partying and learning about life while in the middle of an educational resort paid for by student loans 5. oh you aren't qualified for any job you want!, better take some unpaid internships! 6. what, you need to pay bills? are you too good to flip burgers now with your big fancy degree? welcome to the service industry 7. you still aren't qualified for any jobs and no one is hiring, time to take some more internships so you can get the 2-5 years experience for an entry level job 8. ???????? 9. finally get an acceptable job in your mid to late 20s where you are overworked and underpaid as all the profit from your toil goes to the owner and as you realize you will have to look for another job to ever get a significant promotion, because there's no room for job growth at your current company, but continue paying bills on your vastly overpriced education that you could have gotten pretty much anywhere So like I said. You are making a really dumb decision if you can go somewhere for free or nearly free and you decide to go to a "better" school. Don't let those who have already made their decision to waste a bunch of money dissuade you of this. You sound like a guy with above average intelligence, from a middle class upbringing, with no connections. Some part of you wants to believe people when they say that the college you pick can change your life, but the reality is that you aren't a genius level prodigy, you have no money, and you have no connections. You likely don't even know what you want to do with your life. Spending 25k-40k a year is not worth it and won't help you figure those things out. It's much better to be debt-free. Any true success for a person of your background requires inherent motivation and soul-searching. You can't just follow the path that your teachers, friends, parents, and society at large tell you will make you happy. They are lying.
So who are you and what are your qualifications that lets you make these claims?
"Gee, my friends, teachers, and parents must all be lying to me and really just want to see me fail and go into crippling debt because that would satisfy their perverse desire to see me suffer, good thing that guy on TL set me straight!"
You sound really bitter did you pay 50k/yr to go to a school and not get a job or something?
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Hey guys, this probably isn't the place to argue about the merits of the American collegiate system. Take it to PMs?
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stahp
At this point none of us seniors are going to drastically change our minds concerning higher education. That moment will come April 1. Let us discuss our chances and options freely on a forum much better than college confidential.
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Guys, it depends.
If you get into MIT, and they offer to pay 90% of your tuition through grants because your family falls into that lucky income bracket where the school will just throw money at you -- you're not gonna pass that up for your state college, are you? 
That's one thing that's often overlooked: depending on your family's income, the financial aid at top privates is significantly better than the financial aid at public schools (especially if you're an out-of-state student). Sure, no school is worth $40k a year (I believe the sticker price is now knocking on the $50k/year door ...), but I'm pretty sure the majority of students at top privates are not paying $40k a year.
Now, even with financial aid, the school will probably cost more (probably still a lot more) than your state college, but let's say, $4k for your state college vs. $25k a year for MIT. That's a decision for you and your family, not for us random strangers on the internet.
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^ How long has it been since you've applied for college?
If you consider yourself middle income and live in NYC, chances are that schools are not going to pay 90% of your tuition. OP can fill out net price calculators (I believe all colleges are required by law to have them) to get a better picture but telling him that 90% of his tuition can be paid for is just cruel. There is also a trade-off at top privates (Ivies + Caltech, Stanford, MIT) where you are unable to get merit based scholarships from the schools themselves, so a lot of colleges that do offer merit scholarships to people like OP may still be cheaper.
Sticker price (tuition + room + board) is at or above $60k/year for many top schools.
I will eat my hat if OP gets in to MIT anyway. According to MIT's website only about 4% of people with a 600-640 in CR get in, and I bet many of those people aren't from middle income homes in NYC.
Also, yeah, forgot to say that you should stay away from debt at all costs. Aside from the federally subsidized loans that are like 5k-8k per year they are bad news, and even the federal ones should only be used if you are SURE that they are necessary.
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oh psh. MIT is impossible lol. I think he was only using it as an example.
also I don't like where the thread was going last page. Take the conversation about college being actually effective or not somewhere else.
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Where are you guys applying early?
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On October 08 2013 07:03 catplanetcatplanet wrote:
Where are you guys applying early?
Not applying early at all :x
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I told them to take it to PMs -_-. Also, looking at average for the SUNY schools and the strange how out of 100, you should do fine in state. Out of state and private might be more of a stretch, but just write some sweet essays and ace the upcoming sat. I believe in you!
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Dude just apply to places. Apply everywhere you're even slightly interested in. There's no reason to not apply to a school unless you actually don't qualify (e.g. did not take SAT 2 test), or actually know you will not attend no matter what (you hate the school, school is a money pit). Don't be lazy or scared! Just do it.
Top schools do not always mean lots of debt. I'm in a very expensive private school and will have like 200k+ in debt. It doesn't matter because I'll be making good money when I graduate, as my program has a good hiring rate. The point is: you don't know much at all, so by rejecting schools you're only shutting down opportunities of which you know nothing about. Don't be naive!
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On October 08 2013 06:41 Chocolate wrote:^ How long has it been since you've applied for college? If you consider yourself middle income and live in NYC, chances are that schools are not going to pay 90% of your tuition. OP can fill out net price calculators (I believe all colleges are required by law to have them) to get a better picture but telling him that 90% of his tuition can be paid for is just cruel. There is also a trade-off at top privates (Ivies + Caltech, Stanford, MIT) where you are unable to get merit based scholarships from the schools themselves, so a lot of colleges that do offer merit scholarships to people like OP may still be cheaper. Sticker price (tuition + room + board) is at or above $60k/year for many top schools. I will eat my hat if OP gets in to MIT anyway. According to MIT's website only about 4% of people with a 600-640 in CR get in, and I bet many of those people aren't from middle income homes in NYC. Also, yeah, forgot to say that you should stay away from debt at all costs. Aside from the federally subsidized loans that are like 5k-8k per year they are bad news, and even the federal ones should only be used if you are SURE that they are necessary.
I was just giving an example of an acquaintance who did get a significant portion of her tuition paid for at MIT while being middle-income. (The cost of attending MIT = the cost of attending her state school, basically. This was around 4-5 years ago.) As you say, unlikely for OP (sorry!  ), but I wasn't speaking of OP, just speaking against the general "top private school = heaps of debt" attitude prevailing in the thread. That isn't necessarily true, depending on one's family circumstances.
Also, you should apply early if you can. It improves your chances drastically in some cases ...
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On October 08 2013 07:04 CecilSunkure wrote:
Dude just apply to places. Apply everywhere you're even slightly interested in. There's no reason to not apply to a school unless you actually don't qualify (e.g. did not take SAT 2 test), or actually know you will not attend no matter what (you hate the school, school is a money pit). Don't be lazy or scared! Just do it.
This isn't the best advice. Applications cost money and you should focus your time on a few that you really care about. If you're applying to more than 11 or 12 you're doing something wrong. It's also probably a sign that you need to think about what you really want
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On October 08 2013 07:07 packrat386 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 07:04 CecilSunkure wrote:
Dude just apply to places. Apply everywhere you're even slightly interested in. There's no reason to not apply to a school unless you actually don't qualify (e.g. did not take SAT 2 test), or actually know you will not attend no matter what (you hate the school, school is a money pit). Don't be lazy or scared! Just do it. This isn't the best advice. Applications cost money and you should focus your time on a few that you really care about. If you're applying to more than 11 or 12 you're doing something wrong. It's also probably a sign that you need to think about what you really want
Most applications are done through the common app, and cost no money. Plus, I really doubt he can't afford to spend money on applications. As for focusing on ones he really likes, I agree with you but the problem is he has no idea what he likes and dislikes, and so can't really focus on anything in particular.
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On October 08 2013 07:09 CecilSunkure wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 07:07 packrat386 wrote:On October 08 2013 07:04 CecilSunkure wrote:
Dude just apply to places. Apply everywhere you're even slightly interested in. There's no reason to not apply to a school unless you actually don't qualify (e.g. did not take SAT 2 test), or actually know you will not attend no matter what (you hate the school, school is a money pit). Don't be lazy or scared! Just do it. This isn't the best advice. Applications cost money and you should focus your time on a few that you really care about. If you're applying to more than 11 or 12 you're doing something wrong. It's also probably a sign that you need to think about what you really want Most applications are done through the common app, and cost no money. Plus, I really doubt he can't afford to spend money on applications.
What? Has that changed or something? When I applied 4 years ago, I had to pay for every application I sent out, Common App or no. Each one was like $50-75.
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On October 08 2013 07:09 CecilSunkure wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 07:07 packrat386 wrote:On October 08 2013 07:04 CecilSunkure wrote:
Dude just apply to places. Apply everywhere you're even slightly interested in. There's no reason to not apply to a school unless you actually don't qualify (e.g. did not take SAT 2 test), or actually know you will not attend no matter what (you hate the school, school is a money pit). Don't be lazy or scared! Just do it. This isn't the best advice. Applications cost money and you should focus your time on a few that you really care about. If you're applying to more than 11 or 12 you're doing something wrong. It's also probably a sign that you need to think about what you really want Most applications are done through the common app, and cost no money. Plus, I really doubt he can't afford to spend money on applications.
Only if you qualify for fee waivers. Most schools charge from 40-75 bucks a pop before test scores.
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Not sure but I sent out a bunch of common apps for free :/
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On October 08 2013 07:10 babylon wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 07:09 CecilSunkure wrote:On October 08 2013 07:07 packrat386 wrote:On October 08 2013 07:04 CecilSunkure wrote:
Dude just apply to places. Apply everywhere you're even slightly interested in. There's no reason to not apply to a school unless you actually don't qualify (e.g. did not take SAT 2 test), or actually know you will not attend no matter what (you hate the school, school is a money pit). Don't be lazy or scared! Just do it. This isn't the best advice. Applications cost money and you should focus your time on a few that you really care about. If you're applying to more than 11 or 12 you're doing something wrong. It's also probably a sign that you need to think about what you really want Most applications are done through the common app, and cost no money. Plus, I really doubt he can't afford to spend money on applications. What? Has that changed or something? When I applied 4 years ago, I had to pay for every application I sent out, Common App or no. Each one was like $50-75.
Same and I was 2 years. My family could afford it fine but like, wasnt free.
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On October 08 2013 07:12 packrat386 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 07:10 babylon wrote:On October 08 2013 07:09 CecilSunkure wrote:On October 08 2013 07:07 packrat386 wrote:On October 08 2013 07:04 CecilSunkure wrote:
Dude just apply to places. Apply everywhere you're even slightly interested in. There's no reason to not apply to a school unless you actually don't qualify (e.g. did not take SAT 2 test), or actually know you will not attend no matter what (you hate the school, school is a money pit). Don't be lazy or scared! Just do it. This isn't the best advice. Applications cost money and you should focus your time on a few that you really care about. If you're applying to more than 11 or 12 you're doing something wrong. It's also probably a sign that you need to think about what you really want Most applications are done through the common app, and cost no money. Plus, I really doubt he can't afford to spend money on applications. What? Has that changed or something? When I applied 4 years ago, I had to pay for every application I sent out, Common App or no. Each one was like $50-75. Same and I was 2 years. My family could afford it fine but like, wasnt free.
I remember applying to two schools and deciding I was done (esp. since they both accepted me early), but my parents made me apply to four or five more. I still ended up attending one of the first two schools I applied to. $200+, man. :<
Also, Cecil, 200k in debt is crazy for undergrad. I only really hear that kind of figure tossed around regularly for stuff like med school and law school ... good luck, man. I hope you are rewarded for that kind of faith in the hiring procedure!
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Haha it's alright, no worries. I know it sounds crazy, but I'll be paying that off in a few years 
It just goes to show that the dollar amount of your education really just needs to be proportional to the income you'll be receiving. If it's within a proper proportion the debt doesn't matter as much since you can pay it off in due time.
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EPT
