Statistics: Class Rankings: Upper 50% Accumulative GPA: 90 (3.6~3.7?) Verbal SAT: 600 Math SAT: 790 Writing SAT 710 Math 2 SAT II: 760
Extracurriculars: I play Piano I volunteered at hospital IT last summer. does that count for anything >_> part of Junior Statesmen of America (Student run political organization. I just like debating though )
Academic Stuff: 5 on AP Statistics 3 on AP English T_T Taking AP Calc BC and AP Comp Sci courses
School is fairly competitive. Engineering school but has great science and math concentration. I'm both hopeful and concerned for what schools I'll get into. Also my financial situation isn't the best for somebody in the middle class. I also don't know how much of a scholarship I'll get. I don't qualify for much of the need based ones.
Considered Majors: Computer Science (most likely) Psychology or just going in Undecided
Though I want to go to California, I think I would just put myself in an uncomfortable situation that way (financially). Being in New York and all, I think Stony Brook University is my best bet in my mind but I'm being told to aim higher and I don't know if I can actually aim higher..
Try to decide on a major before you go. That would be ideal. If you can't, then it really doesn't matter as much where you attend so long as you put in a whole lot effort to make the best of wherever you end up.
University doesn't mean shit, it's all about experience, so make sure you do co-op/internship/some sort of legit and significant job before you graduate or you will have essentially just dumped 80K in the garbage tbqh
On October 07 2013 11:31 ffadicted wrote: University doesn't mean shit, it's all about experience, so make sure you do co-op/internship/some sort of legit and significant job before you graduate or you will have essentially just dumped 80K in the garbage tbqh
Mm yeah, this is super important. I try explaining this to some of my colleagues, but they get offended about it actually. It sounds strange, but experience can be so important that one may end up shirking classes to get more time to study what's really important on their own.
Make sure if you choose psych that you're sure you want to go into further education in psych (masters, PhD). A lot of people go psyc but never really get involved. Undergrad in that major isn't really optimistic. As cecil and others said, experience and involvement is really important.
On October 07 2013 11:24 CecilSunkure wrote: Try to decide on a major before you go. That would be ideal. If you can't, then it really doesn't matter as much where you attend so long as you put in a whole lot effort to make the best of wherever you end up.
Yeahhh. I'm thinking Computer Science. My psych teacher (Professor? Grad Student? It's a college class) recommended I minor in Psychology. It is the one subject I like to research in. I do know it branches a lot but I find it interesting in general and haven't really narrowed down on anything.. Maybe developmental But overall Computer Science is the way to go. I just like how open the field is cause I have lots of options
On October 07 2013 11:31 ffadicted wrote: University doesn't mean shit, it's all about experience, so make sure you do co-op/internship/some sort of legit and significant job before you graduate or you will have essentially just dumped 80K in the garbage tbqh
I've realized that. Though I have no idea how cost effective it would be for going to a renowned school or trying to do everything on my own via internet (say I'm majoring in Computer Science unless I find it horrible. As of now, it's not bad. Kinda boring cause class is on a curriculum and everyone didn't pick it up like I did)
On October 07 2013 11:39 KtheZ wrote: Aim high! Go Columbia!
Average of 90 is 50th percentile in your school? Do you go to Stuyvesant or something, jesus
omg Ivies that's a bit too high lol Nah I don't go to Stuy. I don't go to bronx either. It's one of the newer specialized high schools lol. Frankly I was also surprised that I only landed top 50%..
Are you considering anywhere outside of NY and California? I'm from the South/Midwest and could probably rattle off a few good colleges around here. I bet you'd like UIUC. You could also probably aim higher if you improved your SAT verbal, as I'm sure you know. I would try the ACT, especially if you think it's the vocab that is messing you up. TBH I think Columbia would be a waste of time and money, don't bother. Ditto for Cornell. Your verbal is too low and your ECs aren't really that great. If your class reports rank then that's another thing that would keep you out.
If I were you I would NOT major in psych by itself. Good way to meet girls though.
Now I can make my own college blog and not feel out of place
On October 07 2013 12:18 Chocolate wrote: Are you considering anywhere outside of NY and California? I'm from the South/Midwest and could probably rattle off a few good colleges around here. I bet you'd like UIUC. You could also probably aim higher if you improved your SAT verbal, as I'm sure you know. I would try the ACT, especially if you think it's the vocab that is messing you up. TBH I think Columbia would be a waste of time and money, don't bother.
If I were you I would NOT major in psych by itself. Good way to meet girls though.
Now I can make my own college blog and not feel out of place
I have looked into UIUC :o.. It's in my list of colleges that I've considered.
Here's the list I gathered up over the summer. A lot of them are baseless and I just picked them cause they sounded like they knew what they were doing lol.
1. University of California-Los Angeles 2. University of Michigan 3. Georgia Tech 4. Virginia Tech 5. University of Washington 6. Boston University 7. Stony Brooks University 8. Purdue University 9. Tufts University
I visited Tufts, Boston University and Boston College (trip to Boston). I liked Tufts the most but it's my reach school of them all.
And I'll keep the bolded in mind.
awks. UIUC isn't on that list. But I've looked at it more than some of what I have on the list I swear!
Also a little bit more info i guess, I had the desire to leave New York. Preference would be a city environment but I'm pretty adaptable. (Or so I think)
Did you go on any college visits before applying? Get a feel for different schools? I say apply for as many as you can stand and see how much FAFSA you can get. Merit scholorships may save the day at what you think are too pricey schools.
On October 07 2013 12:18 Chocolate wrote: Are you considering anywhere outside of NY and California? I'm from the South/Midwest and could probably rattle off a few good colleges around here. I bet you'd like UIUC. You could also probably aim higher if you improved your SAT verbal, as I'm sure you know. I would try the ACT, especially if you think it's the vocab that is messing you up. TBH I think Columbia would be a waste of time and money, don't bother.
If I were you I would NOT major in psych by itself. Good way to meet girls though.
Now I can make my own college blog and not feel out of place
I have looked into UIUC :o.. It's in my list of colleges that I've considered.
Here's the list I gathered up over the summer. A lot of them are baseless and I just picked them cause they sounded like they knew what they were doing lol.
1. University of California-Los Angeles 2. University of Michigan 3. Georgia Tech 4. Virginia Tech 5. University of Washington 6. Boston University 7. Stony Brooks University 8. Purdue University 9. Tufts University
I visited Tufts, Boston University and Boston College (trip to Boston). I liked Tufts the most but it's my reach school of them all.
And I'll keep the bolded in mind.
awks. UIUC isn't on that list. But I've looked at it more than some of what I have on the list I swear!
Also a little bit more info i guess, I had the desire to leave New York. Preference would be a city environment but I'm pretty adaptable. (Or so I think)
I liked Tufts when I visited it as well, but its absurdly selective and hard to get into I went to VT, and I would say VT and GT are both easily within your reach, and both decent Comp Sci schools if that's what you end up deciding on. If you do think you'll end up doing CS though, I second the recommendation to look into UIUC. Their CS program is definitely better than any school on your current list, and should be within your reach as well.
On October 07 2013 12:18 Chocolate wrote: Are you considering anywhere outside of NY and California? I'm from the South/Midwest and could probably rattle off a few good colleges around here. I bet you'd like UIUC. You could also probably aim higher if you improved your SAT verbal, as I'm sure you know. I would try the ACT, especially if you think it's the vocab that is messing you up. TBH I think Columbia would be a waste of time and money, don't bother.
If I were you I would NOT major in psych by itself. Good way to meet girls though.
Now I can make my own college blog and not feel out of place
I have looked into UIUC :o.. It's in my list of colleges that I've considered.
Here's the list I gathered up over the summer. A lot of them are baseless and I just picked them cause they sounded like they knew what they were doing lol.
1. University of California-Los Angeles 2. University of Michigan 3. Georgia Tech 4. Virginia Tech 5. University of Washington 6. Boston University 7. Stony Brooks University 8. Purdue University 9. Tufts University
I visited Tufts, Boston University and Boston College (trip to Boston). I liked Tufts the most but it's my reach school of them all.
And I'll keep the bolded in mind.
awks. UIUC isn't on that list. But I've looked at it more than some of what I have on the list I swear!
Also a little bit more info i guess, I had the desire to leave New York. Preference would be a city environment but I'm pretty adaptable. (Or so I think)
Okay I was going to suggest VT and GT. I'm not so sure UMich will be too realistic for you but we'll see. It will also cost a lot and isn't too generous with financial aid. Purdue won't give much if any financial aid to you if I understand you correctly, but you might be able to get one of their presidential scholarships.
Let me reiterate that improving your CR score will make a really big difference. A 2100 is a good score but I don't think some of these more selective colleges will look kindly on a 600. UCLA, UMich, Tufts, and all your reachy schools would be a lot easier to get into w/ a score in the high 600s or 700s. There is an SAT sitting in Nov that you can still sign up for I think.
I don't know what the admissions process looks like these days so I'm next to no help, but that's a nice looking list. Good luck!
GTech is great, but it can get pretty soul-crushing. This is probably true for most engineering colleges though, now that I think about it. Also, as a native Georgian, I think Atlanta is pretty ick personally. One of my least favorite cities.
I have a huge soft spot for UMich despite being completely unaffiliated. I've heard really great things about Ann Arbor too. Sigh.
Only thing I can say is to apply for schools you can see yourself attending; don't toss applications at schools you'd never attend even if you were accepted.
Ah about the verbal.. that is disheartening T_T.. I took the October SAT and to be honest, It was a lot harder than I hoped for I hope I can improve my Verbal in the very least..
Your stats put you in range for top 30 schools (not top 10-15, but anywhere outside of that you should stand a decent shot). Writing is going to be very important for you-- your AP and SAT scores say that's your weak point, but the essay is what really counts for college applications. I highly recommend reading the Elements of Style if you haven't already, it will do wonders. Show your essays to anyone who has writing chops, don't worry about being embarrassed, better they see it and help you revise than you send it in unrevised.
Your college list right now seems pretty basic-- do a little research on schools which have good programs in Engineering or Psych first (or something else that piques your interest), put them in an Excel spreadsheet with tuition costs, SAT scores, deadlines, scholarships and other info there. Keep an eye out for scholarships-- there are a lot of them floating around, and most schools outside of the top 10-20 offer some sort of scholarship program to apply through/ take advantage of.
I'm in Atlanta in college (at the other school, not GTech). Atlanta is not a bad city to go to college in, though you will need a car or learn to plan life around MARTA.
Admissions probably have gotten even more crazy than when I applied just a couple years ago so I don't know how some of the public schools are nowadays. Ivies are even more insane than when I looked (like they're what, 7% admittance rate now? I think my year I was looking at 11-13%).
Though obviously you have good credentials, class rank isn't end all be all considering that you have a 3.9 with good stats and that's "only" top 50% 0_o
I'll graduate georgia tech this spring for engineering, so I don't know as much about comp sci (I mildly know a couple people in comp sci, but not anything to give any special insight). But I was going to say that all the reputable public engineering schools probably have good comp sci as well (or really any STEM)-- georgia tech, virginia tech, michigan, illinois, purdue, texas a&m, california schools--and you already have identified that sentiment on your list. Though as you have also identified, going to school out of state is expensive.
I emphasize public schools there because, at least for undergraduate course work, I have grown to doubt that it really matters where you go all that much, and in general public schools are going to have good atmospheres, lower costs, and equivalent opportunities and education.
Georgia tech's first deadline when I applied 4 years ago was nonbinding and super early, like I heard I was in first week of november or something ridiculous. You may have actually already missed that first deadline but it doesn't really hurt to apply sooner than later (compared to other schools that have binding early decision or you don't hear until like march after applying by December 31).
Anyways but that's not necessarily to plug georgia tech, but it has a strong reputation for a reason.
Private school wise I dunno hwo their finances work as much, but for instance rensselaer is in new york. Dunno if that would be relevant.
I think my friend got offered a pretty hefty scholarship thing to alabama for comp sci; if finances really matter, various public schools may have good financil incentives (or at least, sometimes make up the difference between out of state cost so you're basically instate). That gives some flexibility on where you can go, but you should choose something that would make you reasonably happy.
But what people said is true, internships or coops etc matter a lot more. Actually, I can't really say that since I'm about to graduate and only had 1 brief summer internship (don't know whether I will get a job easily or not), but in STEM fields you will learn lots of "hard" skills [meaning specific/technical as opposed to soft skills] that you may never use again (eg formal math theory stuff, etc) while also not learning many of the "Hard" skills that will be used in the job. School is supposed to show you can handle the material, but when you apply for stuff they aren't exactly interested in whether you have coded XYZ before, just if you could do it if needed to be trained.
Are you thinking top-20 schools + Ivies? Or more like good, but not great schools? So like, Yale/Brown level, or Vanderbilt/Georgetown level, or the UC schools level?
Umich is an amazing place speaking as a current student. As long as you're committed to going out and getting it, you can easily have access to resources that are on par or beyond what the Ivy League can offer you. Particularly in engineering we have most of them beat in terms of quality of the program.
Admittance into the Engineering school can be kind of tough. I had a pretty easy time getting in because I somehow got a 35 on the ACT. I'd say you probably have a pretty good shot though as long as you write your essays well.
Other than that, glhf. Start your applications early (I started applying here on october 30th for a Nov 1 deadline. bad decision). Also, don't stress too much. Wherever you end up will probably be awesome, and you'll look back and laugh on these 6 months a lot.
Lastly, how do you have like 9K posts without even being out of high school...
Its pretty funny that you care so much about going to a good school yet at the same time you're considering majoring in psychology. "Prestige" won't pay the bills after graduation.
Also, don't discount how important costs are, especially for out-of-state and private schools. Taking on $50k+ debt will put a huge burden on your standard of living for around a decade after graduation (unless you're shifting it onto your parents).
On October 07 2013 13:54 Whatson wrote: Are you thinking top-20 schools + Ivies? Or more like good, but not great schools? So like, Yale/Brown level, or Vanderbilt/Georgetown level, or the UC schools level?
Probably like UC school level
On October 07 2013 14:18 packrat386 wrote: Umich is an amazing place speaking as a current student. As long as you're committed to going out and getting it, you can easily have access to resources that are on par or beyond what the Ivy League can offer you. Particularly in engineering we have most of them beat in terms of quality of the program.
Admittance into the Engineering school can be kind of tough. I had a pretty easy time getting in because I somehow got a 35 on the ACT. I'd say you probably have a pretty good shot though as long as you write your essays well.
Other than that, glhf. Start your applications early (I started applying here on october 30th for a Nov 1 deadline. bad decision). Also, don't stress too much. Wherever you end up will probably be awesome, and you'll look back and laugh on these 6 months a lot.
Lastly, how do you have like 9K posts without even being out of high school...
Lol I joined TL the summer before my 8th grade. (August 2009) LR Thread and Liquibet boosted my post pretty fast. Plus I played 30+ games of mafia >_>
My school actually has connections to Umich. Roughly 10% of our school goes there.
On October 07 2013 14:28 iamho wrote: Its pretty funny that you care so much about going to a good school yet at the same time you're considering majoring in psychology. "Prestige" won't pay the bills after graduation.
Also, don't discount how important costs are, especially for out-of-state and private schools. Taking on $50k+ debt will put a huge burden on your standard of living for around a decade after graduation (unless you're shifting it onto your parents).
If I were to major in psych, it would probably be a different set of schools I'm trying to get into. maybe i shouldn't have said that I considered it. It's just on my mind as something I like to learn about >_>
i had similar stats to u out of high school and i got rejected everywhere.
my advice would be to go to community college, do well, and reapply as a transfer (srs). if u don't phuck around and work hard u'll save a lot of $$ this way.
You should only go wherever you can get a free ride. College education is vastly overpriced and you don't learn anything anyway. No piece of paper or name on your resume in this economy or in the future economy will be worth the heaps of debt you would incur by going to a school that lets you in at full or near full cost. You are seriously making a huge mistake if you go to a school that is slightly higher ranked but will cost you actual money. You can learn all you need to know by reading books on your own and/or working in the industry you want to work in.
On October 07 2013 17:00 IgnE wrote: You should only go wherever you can get a free ride. College education is vastly overpriced and you don't learn anything anyway. No piece of paper or name on your resume in this economy or in the future economy will be worth the heaps of debt you would incur by going to a school that lets you in at full or near full cost. You are seriously making a huge mistake if you go to a school that is slightly higher ranked but will cost you actual money. You can learn all you need to know by reading books on your own and/or working in the industry you want to work in.
To a point, I agree that college costs way more than is reasonable.
On the other hand (unfortunately), connections do matter. For example the big consulting companies only recruit through certain top-ranked schools, so its near-impossible to get an internship from one of them through applying through their website/ off-campus recruiting. The relationships a school's career center with a company, and your relationship with the career center, go a long way towards getting a job. Then there's the people you meet-- go to a more fancy school, chances are you'll go to class with some rich or well-connected people. That kind of stuff isn't solely restricted to business either-- higher ranked schools have better funding for research and stuff and better reps, which will also help you.
I don't think its right to go in with the mindset "college is overpriced (it is), I'm going to go for as little as possible". Think of it more as investment-- you will get a certain set of technical knowledge (most of which you will never use), but also memories, friends and connections. It is best to pay something for a decent college you will be happy at rather than be on scholarship at some huge school with 40K people, very few of which are your type. Either way, weigh the costs and benefits carefully.
I do ask myself why I didn't just go to some random public school on full scholarship sometimes. Classes would be easy and I would theoretically receive special attention because I'd be honors or something. Still, I would probably have been bored as heck and spent most of my time playing video games and on TL (I'd probably have a much higher post count). My school now is a lot of work (my fault for double-majoring), but I've met a lot of really cool people as well, and gotten to do a few cool things.
I'm probably not going to reply for a day or two, as I want to save my 4K post for something a bit more special.
On October 07 2013 15:00 vlaric wrote: i had similar stats to u out of high school and i got rejected everywhere.
Where did you apply? I know people with significantly worse "stats" than that who got into some (if not all) of the places that they applied to.
UC Berkeley, Irvine, San Diego.
Those must be some of the more selective schools in your state system. I know in particular UC Berkeley is probably pretty high demand.
I come from Kansas, and here if you have a 21+ on the ACT or 1000+ on the SAT (I forget which 2 sections, but one is math) then you're guaranteed to be able to get into the liberal arts school at KU. Just about nobody that I know (including people not from kansas) was unable to get into one of their state schools.
Good luck dude. Just remember that the college process does not define you. Don't do what I did and cry at every denial (I fell through the cracks so I cried a lot lol), buck up and with every acceptance look at a possible amazing new life .
Btw, I just checked up on it and your "stats" are within the middle 50% of all of the SUNY schools that I know off the top of my head. I think you'll do fine as far as getting in somewhere.
On October 07 2013 17:00 IgnE wrote: You should only go wherever you can get a free ride. College education is vastly overpriced and you don't learn anything anyway. No piece of paper or name on your resume in this economy or in the future economy will be worth the heaps of debt you would incur by going to a school that lets you in at full or near full cost. You are seriously making a huge mistake if you go to a school that is slightly higher ranked but will cost you actual money. You can learn all you need to know by reading books on your own and/or working in the industry you want to work in.
To a point, I agree that college costs way more than is reasonable.
On the other hand (unfortunately), connections do matter. For example the big consulting companies only recruit through certain top-ranked schools, so its near-impossible to get an internship from one of them through applying through their website/ off-campus recruiting. The relationships a school's career center with a company, and your relationship with the career center, go a long way towards getting a job. Then there's the people you meet-- go to a more fancy school, chances are you'll go to class with some rich or well-connected people. That kind of stuff isn't solely restricted to business either-- higher ranked schools have better funding for research and stuff and better reps, which will also help you.
I don't think its right to go in with the mindset "college is overpriced (it is), I'm going to go for as little as possible". Think of it more as investment-- you will get a certain set of technical knowledge (most of which you will never use), but also memories, friends and connections. It is best to pay something for a decent college you will be happy at rather than be on scholarship at some huge school with 40K people, very few of which are your type. Either way, weigh the costs and benefits carefully.
I do ask myself why I didn't just go to some random public school on full scholarship sometimes. Classes would be easy and I would theoretically receive special attention because I'd be honors or something. Still, I would probably have been bored as heck and spent most of my time playing video games and on TL (I'd probably have a much higher post count). My school now is a lot of work (my fault for double-majoring), but I've met a lot of really cool people as well, and gotten to do a few cool things.
I'm probably not going to reply for a day or two, as I want to save my 4K post for something a bit more special.
Connections only matter if you are going to an ivy or ivy+, are "ambitious", want to get a job in consulting, and are good at networking. Yeah, if you go to an ivy you might get some nice alumni connections for getting in at goldman sachs so you can work 70 hour work weeks for a bigger than usual salary. But why would you want to do that?
You are vastly overstating the value of mid tier college's alumni network. It's definitely not worth an extra $20k a year. The most important thing in determining your success after college is figuring out what you want to do, which usually requires figuring out why you want to do it. This is necessarily an individual thing. There is a path that society says will get you what you want:
1. join a bunch of extracurriculars and volunteer so you can get into a good college! 2. apply to all the colleges and go to the best one 3. get into a great college that costs a lot of money, is the most prestigious one you can get into, and has great amenities 4. graduate and get your degree 5. enjoy your high paying job, you are well on your way to the american dream, and you've earned it!
here is what it actually is:
1. join a bunch of extracurriculars and volunteer so you can get into an expensive college! 2. apply to a bunch of colleges so you can avoid going to the cheap state option, even though the education is roughly the same for 90% of colleges 3. go to the really expensive college, but you can afford it because of students loans, no biggie 4. graduate in the middle of your class after spending 4 years partying and learning about life while in the middle of an educational resort paid for by student loans 5. oh you aren't qualified for any job you want!, better take some unpaid internships! 6. what, you need to pay bills? are you too good to flip burgers now with your big fancy degree? welcome to the service industry 7. you still aren't qualified for any jobs and no one is hiring, time to take some more internships so you can get the 2-5 years experience for an entry level job 8. ???????? 9. finally get an acceptable job in your mid to late 20s where you are overworked and underpaid as all the profit from your toil goes to the owner and as you realize you will have to look for another job to ever get a significant promotion, because there's no room for job growth at your current company, but continue paying bills on your vastly overpriced education that you could have gotten pretty much anywhere
So like I said. You are making a really dumb decision if you can go somewhere for free or nearly free and you decide to go to a "better" school. Don't let those who have already made their decision to waste a bunch of money dissuade you of this. You sound like a guy with above average intelligence, from a middle class upbringing, with no connections. Some part of you wants to believe people when they say that the college you pick can change your life, but the reality is that you aren't a genius level prodigy, you have no money, and you have no connections. You likely don't even know what you want to do with your life. Spending 25k-40k a year is not worth it and won't help you figure those things out. It's much better to be debt-free. Any true success for a person of your background requires inherent motivation and soul-searching. You can't just follow the path that your teachers, friends, parents, and society at large tell you will make you happy. They are lying.
On October 07 2013 17:00 IgnE wrote: You should only go wherever you can get a free ride. College education is vastly overpriced and you don't learn anything anyway. No piece of paper or name on your resume in this economy or in the future economy will be worth the heaps of debt you would incur by going to a school that lets you in at full or near full cost. You are seriously making a huge mistake if you go to a school that is slightly higher ranked but will cost you actual money. You can learn all you need to know by reading books on your own and/or working in the industry you want to work in.
To a point, I agree that college costs way more than is reasonable.
On the other hand (unfortunately), connections do matter. For example the big consulting companies only recruit through certain top-ranked schools, so its near-impossible to get an internship from one of them through applying through their website/ off-campus recruiting. The relationships a school's career center with a company, and your relationship with the career center, go a long way towards getting a job. Then there's the people you meet-- go to a more fancy school, chances are you'll go to class with some rich or well-connected people. That kind of stuff isn't solely restricted to business either-- higher ranked schools have better funding for research and stuff and better reps, which will also help you.
I don't think its right to go in with the mindset "college is overpriced (it is), I'm going to go for as little as possible". Think of it more as investment-- you will get a certain set of technical knowledge (most of which you will never use), but also memories, friends and connections. It is best to pay something for a decent college you will be happy at rather than be on scholarship at some huge school with 40K people, very few of which are your type. Either way, weigh the costs and benefits carefully.
I do ask myself why I didn't just go to some random public school on full scholarship sometimes. Classes would be easy and I would theoretically receive special attention because I'd be honors or something. Still, I would probably have been bored as heck and spent most of my time playing video games and on TL (I'd probably have a much higher post count). My school now is a lot of work (my fault for double-majoring), but I've met a lot of really cool people as well, and gotten to do a few cool things.
I'm probably not going to reply for a day or two, as I want to save my 4K post for something a bit more special.
Connections only matter if you are going to an ivy or ivy+, are "ambitious", want to get a job in consulting, and are good at networking. Yeah, if you go to an ivy you might get some nice alumni connections for getting in at goldman sachs so you can work 70 hour work weeks for a bigger than usual salary. But why would you want to do that?
You are vastly overstating the value of mid tier college's alumni network. It's definitely not worth an extra $20k a year. The most important thing in determining your success after college is figuring out what you want to do, which usually requires figuring out why you want to do it. This is necessarily an individual thing. There is a path that society says will get you what you want:
1. join a bunch of extracurriculars and volunteer so you can get into a good college! 2. apply to all the colleges and go to the best one 3. get into a great college that costs a lot of money, is the most prestigious one you can get into, and has great amenities 4. graduate and get your degree 5. enjoy your high paying job, you are well on your way to the american dream, and you've earned it!
here is what it actually is:
1. join a bunch of extracurriculars and volunteer so you can get into an expensive college! 2. apply to a bunch of colleges so you can avoid going to the cheap state option, even though the education is roughly the same for 90% of colleges 3. go to the really expensive college, but you can afford it because of students loans, no biggie 4. graduate in the middle of your class after spending 4 years partying and learning about life while in the middle of an educational resort paid for by student loans 5. oh you aren't qualified for any job you want!, better take some unpaid internships! 6. what, you need to pay bills? are you too good to flip burgers now with your big fancy degree? welcome to the service industry 7. you still aren't qualified for any jobs and no one is hiring, time to take some more internships so you can get the 2-5 years experience for an entry level job 8. ???????? 9. finally get an acceptable job in your mid to late 20s where you are overworked and underpaid as all the profit from your toil goes to the owner and as you realize you will have to look for another job to ever get a significant promotion, because there's no room for job growth at your current company, but continue paying bills on your vastly overpriced education that you could have gotten pretty much anywhere
So like I said. You are making a really dumb decision if you can go somewhere for free or nearly free and you decide to go to a "better" school. Don't let those who have already made their decision to waste a bunch of money dissuade you of this. You sound like a guy with above average intelligence, from a middle class upbringing, with no connections. Some part of you wants to believe people when they say that the college you pick can change your life, but the reality is that you aren't a genius level prodigy, you have no money, and you have no connections. You likely don't even know what you want to do with your life. Spending 25k-40k a year is not worth it and won't help you figure those things out. It's much better to be debt-free. Any true success for a person of your background requires inherent motivation and soul-searching. You can't just follow the path that your teachers, friends, parents, and society at large tell you will make you happy. They are lying.
So who are you and what are your qualifications that lets you make these claims?
"Gee, my friends, teachers, and parents must all be lying to me and really just want to see me fail and go into crippling debt because that would satisfy their perverse desire to see me suffer, good thing that guy on TL set me straight!"
You sound really bitter did you pay 50k/yr to go to a school and not get a job or something?
At this point none of us seniors are going to drastically change our minds concerning higher education. That moment will come April 1. Let us discuss our chances and options freely on a forum much better than college confidential.
If you get into MIT, and they offer to pay 90% of your tuition through grants because your family falls into that lucky income bracket where the school will just throw money at you -- you're not gonna pass that up for your state college, are you?
That's one thing that's often overlooked: depending on your family's income, the financial aid at top privates is significantly better than the financial aid at public schools (especially if you're an out-of-state student). Sure, no school is worth $40k a year (I believe the sticker price is now knocking on the $50k/year door ...), but I'm pretty sure the majority of students at top privates are not paying $40k a year.
Now, even with financial aid, the school will probably cost more (probably still a lot more) than your state college, but let's say, $4k for your state college vs. $25k a year for MIT. That's a decision for you and your family, not for us random strangers on the internet.
^ How long has it been since you've applied for college?
If you consider yourself middle income and live in NYC, chances are that schools are not going to pay 90% of your tuition. OP can fill out net price calculators (I believe all colleges are required by law to have them) to get a better picture but telling him that 90% of his tuition can be paid for is just cruel. There is also a trade-off at top privates (Ivies + Caltech, Stanford, MIT) where you are unable to get merit based scholarships from the schools themselves, so a lot of colleges that do offer merit scholarships to people like OP may still be cheaper.
Sticker price (tuition + room + board) is at or above $60k/year for many top schools.
I will eat my hat if OP gets in to MIT anyway. According to MIT's website only about 4% of people with a 600-640 in CR get in, and I bet many of those people aren't from middle income homes in NYC.
Also, yeah, forgot to say that you should stay away from debt at all costs. Aside from the federally subsidized loans that are like 5k-8k per year they are bad news, and even the federal ones should only be used if you are SURE that they are necessary.
I told them to take it to PMs -_-. Also, looking at average for the SUNY schools and the strange how out of 100, you should do fine in state. Out of state and private might be more of a stretch, but just write some sweet essays and ace the upcoming sat. I believe in you!
Dude just apply to places. Apply everywhere you're even slightly interested in. There's no reason to not apply to a school unless you actually don't qualify (e.g. did not take SAT 2 test), or actually know you will not attend no matter what (you hate the school, school is a money pit). Don't be lazy or scared! Just do it.
Top schools do not always mean lots of debt. I'm in a very expensive private school and will have like 200k+ in debt. It doesn't matter because I'll be making good money when I graduate, as my program has a good hiring rate. The point is: you don't know much at all, so by rejecting schools you're only shutting down opportunities of which you know nothing about. Don't be naive!
On October 08 2013 06:41 Chocolate wrote: ^ How long has it been since you've applied for college?
If you consider yourself middle income and live in NYC, chances are that schools are not going to pay 90% of your tuition. OP can fill out net price calculators (I believe all colleges are required by law to have them) to get a better picture but telling him that 90% of his tuition can be paid for is just cruel. There is also a trade-off at top privates (Ivies + Caltech, Stanford, MIT) where you are unable to get merit based scholarships from the schools themselves, so a lot of colleges that do offer merit scholarships to people like OP may still be cheaper.
Sticker price (tuition + room + board) is at or above $60k/year for many top schools.
I will eat my hat if OP gets in to MIT anyway. According to MIT's website only about 4% of people with a 600-640 in CR get in, and I bet many of those people aren't from middle income homes in NYC.
Also, yeah, forgot to say that you should stay away from debt at all costs. Aside from the federally subsidized loans that are like 5k-8k per year they are bad news, and even the federal ones should only be used if you are SURE that they are necessary.
I was just giving an example of an acquaintance who did get a significant portion of her tuition paid for at MIT while being middle-income. (The cost of attending MIT = the cost of attending her state school, basically. This was around 4-5 years ago.) As you say, unlikely for OP (sorry! ), but I wasn't speaking of OP, just speaking against the general "top private school = heaps of debt" attitude prevailing in the thread. That isn't necessarily true, depending on one's family circumstances.
Also, you should apply early if you can. It improves your chances drastically in some cases ...
On October 08 2013 07:04 CecilSunkure wrote: Dude just apply to places. Apply everywhere you're even slightly interested in. There's no reason to not apply to a school unless you actually don't qualify (e.g. did not take SAT 2 test), or actually know you will not attend no matter what (you hate the school, school is a money pit). Don't be lazy or scared! Just do it.
This isn't the best advice. Applications cost money and you should focus your time on a few that you really care about. If you're applying to more than 11 or 12 you're doing something wrong. It's also probably a sign that you need to think about what you really want
On October 08 2013 07:04 CecilSunkure wrote: Dude just apply to places. Apply everywhere you're even slightly interested in. There's no reason to not apply to a school unless you actually don't qualify (e.g. did not take SAT 2 test), or actually know you will not attend no matter what (you hate the school, school is a money pit). Don't be lazy or scared! Just do it.
This isn't the best advice. Applications cost money and you should focus your time on a few that you really care about. If you're applying to more than 11 or 12 you're doing something wrong. It's also probably a sign that you need to think about what you really want
Most applications are done through the common app, and cost no money. Plus, I really doubt he can't afford to spend money on applications. As for focusing on ones he really likes, I agree with you but the problem is he has no idea what he likes and dislikes, and so can't really focus on anything in particular.
On October 08 2013 07:04 CecilSunkure wrote: Dude just apply to places. Apply everywhere you're even slightly interested in. There's no reason to not apply to a school unless you actually don't qualify (e.g. did not take SAT 2 test), or actually know you will not attend no matter what (you hate the school, school is a money pit). Don't be lazy or scared! Just do it.
This isn't the best advice. Applications cost money and you should focus your time on a few that you really care about. If you're applying to more than 11 or 12 you're doing something wrong. It's also probably a sign that you need to think about what you really want
Most applications are done through the common app, and cost no money. Plus, I really doubt he can't afford to spend money on applications.
What? Has that changed or something? When I applied 4 years ago, I had to pay for every application I sent out, Common App or no. Each one was like $50-75.
On October 08 2013 07:04 CecilSunkure wrote: Dude just apply to places. Apply everywhere you're even slightly interested in. There's no reason to not apply to a school unless you actually don't qualify (e.g. did not take SAT 2 test), or actually know you will not attend no matter what (you hate the school, school is a money pit). Don't be lazy or scared! Just do it.
This isn't the best advice. Applications cost money and you should focus your time on a few that you really care about. If you're applying to more than 11 or 12 you're doing something wrong. It's also probably a sign that you need to think about what you really want
Most applications are done through the common app, and cost no money. Plus, I really doubt he can't afford to spend money on applications.
Only if you qualify for fee waivers. Most schools charge from 40-75 bucks a pop before test scores.
On October 08 2013 07:04 CecilSunkure wrote: Dude just apply to places. Apply everywhere you're even slightly interested in. There's no reason to not apply to a school unless you actually don't qualify (e.g. did not take SAT 2 test), or actually know you will not attend no matter what (you hate the school, school is a money pit). Don't be lazy or scared! Just do it.
This isn't the best advice. Applications cost money and you should focus your time on a few that you really care about. If you're applying to more than 11 or 12 you're doing something wrong. It's also probably a sign that you need to think about what you really want
Most applications are done through the common app, and cost no money. Plus, I really doubt he can't afford to spend money on applications.
What? Has that changed or something? When I applied 4 years ago, I had to pay for every application I sent out, Common App or no. Each one was like $50-75.
Same and I was 2 years. My family could afford it fine but like, wasnt free.
On October 08 2013 07:04 CecilSunkure wrote: Dude just apply to places. Apply everywhere you're even slightly interested in. There's no reason to not apply to a school unless you actually don't qualify (e.g. did not take SAT 2 test), or actually know you will not attend no matter what (you hate the school, school is a money pit). Don't be lazy or scared! Just do it.
This isn't the best advice. Applications cost money and you should focus your time on a few that you really care about. If you're applying to more than 11 or 12 you're doing something wrong. It's also probably a sign that you need to think about what you really want
Most applications are done through the common app, and cost no money. Plus, I really doubt he can't afford to spend money on applications.
What? Has that changed or something? When I applied 4 years ago, I had to pay for every application I sent out, Common App or no. Each one was like $50-75.
Same and I was 2 years. My family could afford it fine but like, wasnt free.
I remember applying to two schools and deciding I was done (esp. since they both accepted me early), but my parents made me apply to four or five more. I still ended up attending one of the first two schools I applied to. $200+, man. :<
Also, Cecil, 200k in debt is crazy for undergrad. I only really hear that kind of figure tossed around regularly for stuff like med school and law school ... good luck, man. I hope you are rewarded for that kind of faith in the hiring procedure!
Haha it's alright, no worries. I know it sounds crazy, but I'll be paying that off in a few years
It just goes to show that the dollar amount of your education really just needs to be proportional to the income you'll be receiving. If it's within a proper proportion the debt doesn't matter as much since you can pay it off in due time.
Why not apply to Harvey Mudd? Especially if you want to go into comp sci/electrical engineering type things. Small school, college = no grad school = professors aren't more worried about grants than teaching. When I applied many years ago I ended up almost choosing it and sometimes regret not doing so (went to an Ivy). They were super generous with scholarships as well. It's even in Cali (though not on the coast.. Pomona is aight)
Along that line of thought, Stevens and Caltech are also worth looking into as well.
And don't want to spark that debate about college name brand vs price, but I have gotten jobs from the connections I made in college and the "brand" of the college has boosted my job apps a few times, and I work in science/academia. I know in the comp sci department, google, microsoft, adobe, +others would visit every year to recruit. Not sure if this happens at middle/lower tier schools.
Edit: Was just gonna add Cal poly SLO and cal poly pomona. Lower tier but still respectable if you want to go to Cali. Also not sure why you have UCLA and not Berkeley, Berkeley's CS/engineering is top tier.
On October 07 2013 17:00 IgnE wrote: You should only go wherever you can get a free ride. College education is vastly overpriced and you don't learn anything anyway. No piece of paper or name on your resume in this economy or in the future economy will be worth the heaps of debt you would incur by going to a school that lets you in at full or near full cost. You are seriously making a huge mistake if you go to a school that is slightly higher ranked but will cost you actual money. You can learn all you need to know by reading books on your own and/or working in the industry you want to work in.
To a point, I agree that college costs way more than is reasonable.
On the other hand (unfortunately), connections do matter. For example the big consulting companies only recruit through certain top-ranked schools, so its near-impossible to get an internship from one of them through applying through their website/ off-campus recruiting. The relationships a school's career center with a company, and your relationship with the career center, go a long way towards getting a job. Then there's the people you meet-- go to a more fancy school, chances are you'll go to class with some rich or well-connected people. That kind of stuff isn't solely restricted to business either-- higher ranked schools have better funding for research and stuff and better reps, which will also help you.
I don't think its right to go in with the mindset "college is overpriced (it is), I'm going to go for as little as possible". Think of it more as investment-- you will get a certain set of technical knowledge (most of which you will never use), but also memories, friends and connections. It is best to pay something for a decent college you will be happy at rather than be on scholarship at some huge school with 40K people, very few of which are your type. Either way, weigh the costs and benefits carefully.
I do ask myself why I didn't just go to some random public school on full scholarship sometimes. Classes would be easy and I would theoretically receive special attention because I'd be honors or something. Still, I would probably have been bored as heck and spent most of my time playing video games and on TL (I'd probably have a much higher post count). My school now is a lot of work (my fault for double-majoring), but I've met a lot of really cool people as well, and gotten to do a few cool things.
I'm probably not going to reply for a day or two, as I want to save my 4K post for something a bit more special.
Connections only matter if you are going to an ivy or ivy+, are "ambitious", want to get a job in consulting, and are good at networking. Yeah, if you go to an ivy you might get some nice alumni connections for getting in at goldman sachs so you can work 70 hour work weeks for a bigger than usual salary. But why would you want to do that?
You are vastly overstating the value of mid tier college's alumni network. It's definitely not worth an extra $20k a year. The most important thing in determining your success after college is figuring out what you want to do, which usually requires figuring out why you want to do it. This is necessarily an individual thing. There is a path that society says will get you what you want:
1. join a bunch of extracurriculars and volunteer so you can get into a good college! 2. apply to all the colleges and go to the best one 3. get into a great college that costs a lot of money, is the most prestigious one you can get into, and has great amenities 4. graduate and get your degree 5. enjoy your high paying job, you are well on your way to the american dream, and you've earned it!
here is what it actually is:
1. join a bunch of extracurriculars and volunteer so you can get into an expensive college! 2. apply to a bunch of colleges so you can avoid going to the cheap state option, even though the education is roughly the same for 90% of colleges 3. go to the really expensive college, but you can afford it because of students loans, no biggie 4. graduate in the middle of your class after spending 4 years partying and learning about life while in the middle of an educational resort paid for by student loans 5. oh you aren't qualified for any job you want!, better take some unpaid internships! 6. what, you need to pay bills? are you too good to flip burgers now with your big fancy degree? welcome to the service industry 7. you still aren't qualified for any jobs and no one is hiring, time to take some more internships so you can get the 2-5 years experience for an entry level job 8. ???????? 9. finally get an acceptable job in your mid to late 20s where you are overworked and underpaid as all the profit from your toil goes to the owner and as you realize you will have to look for another job to ever get a significant promotion, because there's no room for job growth at your current company, but continue paying bills on your vastly overpriced education that you could have gotten pretty much anywhere
So like I said. You are making a really dumb decision if you can go somewhere for free or nearly free and you decide to go to a "better" school. Don't let those who have already made their decision to waste a bunch of money dissuade you of this. You sound like a guy with above average intelligence, from a middle class upbringing, with no connections. Some part of you wants to believe people when they say that the college you pick can change your life, but the reality is that you aren't a genius level prodigy, you have no money, and you have no connections. You likely don't even know what you want to do with your life. Spending 25k-40k a year is not worth it and won't help you figure those things out. It's much better to be debt-free. Any true success for a person of your background requires inherent motivation and soul-searching. You can't just follow the path that your teachers, friends, parents, and society at large tell you will make you happy. They are lying.
So who are you and what are your qualifications that lets you make these claims?
"Gee, my friends, teachers, and parents must all be lying to me and really just want to see me fail and go into crippling debt because that would satisfy their perverse desire to see me suffer, good thing that guy on TL set me straight!"
You sound really bitter did you pay 50k/yr to go to a school and not get a job or something?
My qualifications are living in reality. I went to a state school for undergrad and an ivy for graduate school. I have a job. I am just telling you how it is for everyone in a post-2008 world.
Your mocking quote is ridiculous. Parents and teachers and friends don't know any better and neither do you apparently. That doesn't make them malicious.
I get the feeling that most people in this thread haven't actually graduated yet.
I think some other people need to get some perspective here. The OP clearly isn't going to MIT or Princeton where they actually give financial aid instead of student debt. What's the point in telling him that if he gets into MIT or Princeton or Harvard he won't have to pay off massive loans? But if he goes to Stevens he is going to be paying massive tuition and New York living expenses. All for an average education, some minor name recognition, and a massive load of debt.
On October 08 2013 07:04 CecilSunkure wrote: Dude just apply to places. Apply everywhere you're even slightly interested in. There's no reason to not apply to a school unless you actually don't qualify (e.g. did not take SAT 2 test), or actually know you will not attend no matter what (you hate the school, school is a money pit). Don't be lazy or scared! Just do it.
Top schools do not always mean lots of debt. I'm in a very expensive private school and will have like 200k+ in debt. It doesn't matter because I'll be making good money when I graduate, as my program has a good hiring rate. The point is: you don't know much at all, so by rejecting schools you're only shutting down opportunities of which you know nothing about. Don't be naive!
Yes, don't be naive. Don't take on $200k in debt for a merely "good" hiring rate. You are basically taking on a mortgage without having even worked yet. To make matters worse, not everyone gets hired. What happens if you find out that you are $50k in debt, going into your sophomore year and you hate what you are doing? Now you want to transfer out with the $50k into a field with lower-paying prospects?
Nothing against Cecil, I am sure he will be fine. But no college undergrad is going to be making more than ~75k out of college. $200k in debt is more than $2,000 a month for the next 10 years in payments. Even if you are making 75k, and bringing in $4k a month, you are paying out $2k in loans, and at least $1k in rent because you have to be in a city to be making that money. Sure maybe if you work 70 hour work weeks you can be making twice as much money in 4-5 years out of college, but you are still being worked like a wage slave, probably in a financial institution, doing work that you don't really care about. And that's best case. Worst case we hit another financial crisis before you graduate, Goldman Sachs isn't hiring anymore and you default on your debt that you can't even get out from under through bankruptcy. You spend the next 20 years of your life with your wages being garnished.
Does it work for some people? Yes. Is it worth it for most people? Definitely not. Are you the top 10% of the aspirational 15% going to over-priced schools? Or are you unsure of what you want to do and how you want to do it? Best option is going to the best school you can go to for essentially free.
The only major benefit to going to substantially better schools is being around generally smarter people. But most schools are so big you can find smart people if you look.
(BTW, almost every single school out there is outright lying about their hiring rate. Usually they are based on self-reporting, 9 months out, and tweaked in other ways to make it look as high as possible. Do not be fooled.)
IgnE (and others) could you please take it somewhere else? OP has asked to shift the convo away from that. If you need to get in the last word take it to PMs
On October 08 2013 10:49 IgnE wrote: This isn't about whether college is effective or not. This is about how to decide where to go to college.
Yeah, but they can decide after they get their acceptance letters, lol. Some people are fortunate enough to get merit/financial aid, and some people also have very generous parents who are willing to pay for their undergrad degrees (not uncommon for Asian parents*).
*If your parents are this generous, please remember to be nice to them, and also please refrain from drinking all of your undergrad away.
On October 08 2013 10:49 IgnE wrote: This isn't about whether college is effective or not. This is about how to decide where to go to college.
Yeah, but they can decide after they get their acceptance letters, lol. Some people are fortunate enough to get merit/financial aid, and some people also have very generous parents who are willing to pay for their undergrad degrees (not uncommon for Asian parents*).
*If your parents are this generous, please remember to be nice to them, and also please refrain from drinking all of your undergrad away.
OP said he comes from modest means and doesn't have the money to pay full sticker price. But I guess you didn't read the OP.
Look, college is a great time in your life, especially for non-academic reasons. And you can really get that anywhere. Justifying paying $50k a year because you are going to have a great time socially, etc. is absurd because you really can do that anywhere. Every campus in America has great people and great mentors on it. Moreover, your education is mostly self-driven. College is easy. Everywhere. It's a fact. Your motivation has to come from within. Paying $50k a year to go to a mid tier private school won't help you with that.
On October 08 2013 10:49 IgnE wrote: This isn't about whether college is effective or not. This is about how to decide where to go to college.
Yeah, but they can decide after they get their acceptance letters, lol. Some people are fortunate enough to get merit/financial aid, and some people also have very generous parents who are willing to pay for their undergrad degrees (not uncommon for Asian parents*).
*If your parents are this generous, please remember to be nice to them, and also please refrain from drinking all of your undergrad away.
OP said he comes from modest means and doesn't have the money to pay full sticker price. But I guess you didn't read the OP.
I was responding to your very general post, to qualify your very general post with slightly less general exceptions. Most of my posts in this thread have been very general, but I guess you just want to start an argument.
And "middle-class" can mean anything up to six figures these days depending on who you talk to.
Anyways, there's nothing terrible about applying to 1-2 top privates. You could get lucky with admissions and with aid/scholarships. It's been known to happen.
On October 08 2013 10:49 IgnE wrote: This isn't about whether college is effective or not. This is about how to decide where to go to college.
Yeah, but they can decide after they get their acceptance letters, lol. Some people are fortunate enough to get merit/financial aid, and some people also have very generous parents who are willing to pay for their undergrad degrees (not uncommon for Asian parents*).
*If your parents are this generous, please remember to be nice to them, and also please refrain from drinking all of your undergrad away.
OP said he comes from modest means and doesn't have the money to pay full sticker price. But I guess you didn't read the OP.
I was responding to your very general post, to qualify your very general post with slightly less general exceptions. Most of my posts in this thread have been very general, but I guess you just want to start an argument.
And "middle-class" can mean anything up to six figures these days depending on who you talk to.
Anyways, there's nothing terrible about applying to 1-2 top privates. You could get lucky with admissions and with aid/scholarships. It's been known to happen.
I'm all for applying places to see if you get merit-based or debt-free assistance.
On October 08 2013 10:49 IgnE wrote: This isn't about whether college is effective or not. This is about how to decide where to go to college.
Yeah, but they can decide after they get their acceptance letters, lol. Some people are fortunate enough to get merit/financial aid, and some people also have very generous parents who are willing to pay for their undergrad degrees (not uncommon for Asian parents*).
*If your parents are this generous, please remember to be nice to them, and also please refrain from drinking all of your undergrad away.
OP said he comes from modest means and doesn't have the money to pay full sticker price. But I guess you didn't read the OP.
I was responding to your very general post, to qualify your very general post with slightly less general exceptions. Most of my posts in this thread have been very general, but I guess you just want to start an argument.
And "middle-class" can mean anything up to six figures these days depending on who you talk to.
Anyways, there's nothing terrible about applying to 1-2 top privates. You could get lucky with admissions and with aid/scholarships. It's been known to happen.
I'm all for applying places to see if you get merit-based or debt-free assistance.
Excellent! We all agree that debt = bad, and substantial debt (e.g. Cecil-level) = Very Bad and Highly Questionable. Especially for undergraduate. And for grad school too, depending.
Harvey Mudd is definitely not for everyone, it's extremely small (this turned me off the most), people are generally work super hard/party super hard types, and if you find you want to do switch to a liberal arts major you're pretty screwed (you might be able to transfer to Pomona college but.. what's the point..)
However, if you don't mind being around a bunch of very intelligent, nerdy tech folks and aren't worried about the class size of like 250 (if you get tired of them you can hang out with the girls at Pomona/Scripps) it's going to give you probably one of the best educations you can get at a college. The CS program there is among the best, along with engineering. If you plan on staying on the west coast harvey mudd is a pretty big name as well. It's pretty much the best liberal arts college out there for science/engineering but that also makes it one of the most selective. If you get an acceptance here, take a look for sure. I did and ended up choosing an Ivy mostly because HM felt too close to home, but it was a very tough decision. Btw, Day9 is an alumn ^^
And IgnE, stop being a downer. These kids are applying right now with no idea what their futures hold. Even though the OP's stats aren't the best there's always a chance he can make it into a great school that gives great financial aid, that's just the dice roll of apps. I know it's important to ensure that you get your money's worth in college but they haven't even sent their apps in yet, much less get their acceptances/rejections.
EPT
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