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On October 07 2013 18:04 Passion wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2013 15:26 KwarK wrote:On October 07 2013 06:06 ninazerg wrote:
The actual origin comes from former President George W. Bush's Texas accent, saying "Amurica", and the term was initially used to mock the Bush-mindset (or perception thereof) concerning the ideas of American Exceptionalism and Pre-emptive War. Although both concepts are relatively far apart, it seems clear that former President Bush believed in both, lending credence to the broader international opinion that the US was more inclined to engage in a pre-emptive war against the will of the international community because of a belief in American Exceptionalism. This is perceived as the ultimate act of arrogance on the part of the United States, and although it is not clear if former President Bush's belief in American Exceptionalism was intertwined with his belief in pre-emptive war, I think the human tendency to oversimplify has led certain people to believe that the United States has a mentality of "We can do whatever we want, because we are the greatest nation in the world, and the best at everything". The term "Murica" is used almost exclusively in a derogatory manner, often as an ad hominem conjecture, to not only disparage the "Bush mentality" but the entire nation of the US in general.
I've personally seen the term being used by mostly Western Europeans and Australians, but also some Americans. The term itself is eerily similar in origin to the slang term "nigger", which is based on the regional origin of the slaves brought from the Niger river region of Africa to America, although, to be fair, there is significantly less persecution and oppression involved (if any, besides basic mockery) to "Muricans" as there is to "Niggers". There is a very profound historical context that separates both terms, but the origins and meanings are quite close, both alluding to:
- Generally stupider than the rest of people without realizing it.
- A group of people with an inability to be educated.
- A lower group of people who resort to savagery if not restrained from doing so by more 'enlightened' human beings.
- People who have a sense of pride that is unwarranted.
I should also note that the term "Muricans" is directly almost exclusively towards a perceived sense of American ignorance, rather than the perceived arrogance of US citizens.
Additionally, I would like to state that I am, in no way, offended by the term itself because it is meaningless without context, but I am very slightly offended by the perception that I am ignorant of world affairs and other cultures because I am American. The word nigger does not come from the Niger river, it is a bastardization of the word black. It's in no way similar to the word nigger either, at this point you appear to just be making shit up for no reason. Nobody thinks Americans are universally stupid, savage or racially inferior. You seem to have just gone full moron there. Wow. 'Murca is a satirical expression used to feign an uneducated pride in some stereotypical American achievement, hence the exclamation with an accent used to denote a lack of education. Here are two examples, one of the expression in its original usage and one showing how 'murca is used as satire. "We just had free and fair elections, America, land of the free" "I just shot a kid for trespassing on my yard, fuck yeah, 'murca" You can do a similar thing for other nations if you wish. For example "I'm not sure how I'll afford to feed my 10 kids, better have more, I love the glorious socialist people's republic of Sweden" That's not niggers either. Nigger is a completely different word. Thanks for the nigger-correction x) However, it seems to me you lot are over interpreting the 'murica. Isn't it simply the closest the average American will get to correctly and fully pronouncing "America"?
LOL
I'm not sure if you're trying to purposefully be ignorant, but people from the US have all different accents. Think of it as the difference between Castillian Spanish and Latin American Spanish. Nobody calls the people from Spain too stupid to pronounce their own language because they have a "lisp" when saying certain words that may have an "s" sound in Latin America (there's an origin to this mostly concerning the Greek letter theta, but it's not really that important).
Suggesting that people have difficulty pronouncing the full name of the United States of America is just ridiculous. Maybe there are some back country rednecks in the deep south (and even then, you'd be hard pressed to find people that couldn't pronounce their own country's name), but the vast majority of the United States population is smart enough to fucking pronounce America.
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Youre giving far too much credit to the average American. There was a poll done a few months ago that said if you make 94,000 or more you dont qualify for obama care. Yet over 58% of families polled said they had no idea how to figure out if they qualified or not, with the only condition being if you made less then 94,000 dollars to qualify.
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On October 07 2013 15:26 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On October 07 2013 06:06 ninazerg wrote:
The actual origin comes from former President George W. Bush's Texas accent, saying "Amurica", and the term was initially used to mock the Bush-mindset (or perception thereof) concerning the ideas of American Exceptionalism and Pre-emptive War. Although both concepts are relatively far apart, it seems clear that former President Bush believed in both, lending credence to the broader international opinion that the US was more inclined to engage in a pre-emptive war against the will of the international community because of a belief in American Exceptionalism. This is perceived as the ultimate act of arrogance on the part of the United States, and although it is not clear if former President Bush's belief in American Exceptionalism was intertwined with his belief in pre-emptive war, I think the human tendency to oversimplify has led certain people to believe that the United States has a mentality of "We can do whatever we want, because we are the greatest nation in the world, and the best at everything". The term "Murica" is used almost exclusively in a derogatory manner, often as an ad hominem conjecture, to not only disparage the "Bush mentality" but the entire nation of the US in general.
I've personally seen the term being used by mostly Western Europeans and Australians, but also some Americans. The term itself is eerily similar in origin to the slang term "nigger", which is based on the regional origin of the slaves brought from the Niger river region of Africa to America, although, to be fair, there is significantly less persecution and oppression involved (if any, besides basic mockery) to "Muricans" as there is to "Niggers". There is a very profound historical context that separates both terms, but the origins and meanings are quite close, both alluding to:
- Generally stupider than the rest of people without realizing it.
- A group of people with an inability to be educated.
- A lower group of people who resort to savagery if not restrained from doing so by more 'enlightened' human beings.
- People who have a sense of pride that is unwarranted.
I should also note that the term "Muricans" is directly almost exclusively towards a perceived sense of American ignorance, rather than the perceived arrogance of US citizens.
Additionally, I would like to state that I am, in no way, offended by the term itself because it is meaningless without context, but I am very slightly offended by the perception that I am ignorant of world affairs and other cultures because I am American. The word nigger does not come from the Niger river, it is a bastardization of the word black. It's in no way similar to the word nigger either, at this point you appear to just be making shit up for no reason. Nobody thinks Americans are universally stupid, savage or racially inferior. You seem to have just gone full moron there. Wow. 'Murca is a satirical expression used to feign an uneducated pride in some stereotypical American achievement, hence the exclamation with an accent used to denote a lack of education. Here are two examples, one of the expression in its original usage and one showing how 'murca is used as satire. "We just had free and fair elections, America, land of the free" "I just shot a kid for trespassing on my yard, fuck yeah, 'murca" You can do a similar thing for other nations if you wish. For example "I'm not sure how I'll afford to feed my 10 kids, better have more, I love the glorious socialist people's republic of Sweden" That's not niggers either. Nigger is a completely different word.
Actually, you're right about the Niger thing. I forgot that it was named by the Spanish, not the Africans. As for the M-word, as a proud American-American, I find it deeply offensive and politely ask that you would not use it. I can see that we disagree about this matter, but at least, we were able to maintain a sense of civility and politeness that is so often missing from disagreements over the internet.
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United States42960 Posts
I refuse to accept that using the word 'murca to illustrate a funny American stereotype is as offensive as calling a black person a nigger, you're out of luck there.
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On October 08 2013 06:58 KwarK wrote:
I refuse to accept that using the word 'murca to illustrate a funny American stereotype is as offensive as calling a black person a nigger, you're out of luck there.
Good, because I never said it was as offensive, or even close.
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United States42960 Posts
But you are offended by the suggestion that we might think you're ignorant of world affairs and cultures just because you're American and not because of your explanations about how the Romans took their word for black from the name of a river near where some black people lived and then the world had no name for the colour black from the fall of the Roman Empire until the arrival of the slave trade? Don't worry, I don't think anyone is going to think you're ignorant of world affairs and cultures just because you're American.
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Oh, would you get off the river thing? Jesus Christ. The root word for 'black' existed since Latin, but wasn't used as a racial term (negros) until the 1400s when the Spanish began exploring Western Africa. But I suppose you already know that, since apparently, you're so well-versed in etymology and world history that everyone else is a moron compared to you. I guess you also know that in Tuarag, the river is called Egrerew Nigerewen, which means "Great River". I guess that may have had something to do with the name, but I don't know, I'm just that dumb poster who has the audacity to say that two derogatory slang terms may be based on alternations of the names of the people.
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Hyrule19086 Posts
Well yes he is. He's got a degree in history and Greek language.
murca is not something to be offended by
stop being ridiculous
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On October 09 2013 09:10 tofucake wrote:
Well yes he is. He's got a degree in history and Greek language.
murca is not something to be offended by
stop being ridiculous
Yeah... never said that, but okay.
Also, my dog has a degree in history, and I rewarded her by giving her a bacon treat.
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Russian Federation3631 Posts
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Hyrule19086 Posts
On October 09 2013 11:21 ninazerg wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2013 09:10 tofucake wrote:
Well yes he is. He's got a degree in history and Greek language.
murca is not something to be offended by
stop being ridiculous Yeah... never said that, but okay.
On October 08 2013 08:05 ninazerg wrote:
But I suppose you already know that, since apparently, you're so well-versed in etymology and world history that everyone else is a moron compared to you.
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On October 09 2013 15:24 419 wrote:
shots fired ~~~~~~
MAN DOWN
MAN DOWN
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So is this blog about trying to offend KwarK or what? I'm game if so.
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On October 09 2013 11:21 ninazerg wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2013 09:10 tofucake wrote:
Well yes he is. He's got a degree in history and Greek language.
murca is not something to be offended by
stop being ridiculous Yeah... never said that, but okay. Also, my dog has a degree in history, and I rewarded her by giving her a bacon treat.
whatre you trying to say about history majors
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On October 10 2013 04:03 Aveng3r wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2013 11:21 ninazerg wrote:On October 09 2013 09:10 tofucake wrote:
Well yes he is. He's got a degree in history and Greek language.
murca is not something to be offended by
stop being ridiculous Yeah... never said that, but okay. Also, my dog has a degree in history, and I rewarded her by giving her a bacon treat. whatre you trying to say about history majors
They enjoy bacon treats.
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On October 09 2013 20:30 tofucake wrote:Show nested quote +On October 09 2013 11:21 ninazerg wrote:On October 09 2013 09:10 tofucake wrote:
Well yes he is. He's got a degree in history and Greek language.
murca is not something to be offended by
stop being ridiculous Yeah... never said that, but okay. Show nested quote +On October 08 2013 08:05 ninazerg wrote:
But I suppose you already know that, since apparently, you're so well-versed in etymology and world history that everyone else is a moron compared to you.
On October 07 2013 15:26 KwarK wrote:
You seem to have just gone full moron there. Wow.
On October 08 2013 07:11 ninazerg wrote:
I never said it was as offensive, or even close.
As far as what you highlighted, how would you get the impression that I "think Murica is offensive" based on that? I just don't appreciate being called a moron when they have a differing opinion, which isn't about whether or not Murica is "offensive" or not. It's derogatory the same way that being called a "poopyhead" would be derogatory. For most people above the age of 5, that's not very offensive in the slightest. If someone disagrees that "Murica" is A. derogatory and B. an alteration of a name that could be used as an insult, then fine. But going "You seem to have gone full moron there. Wow." would certainly not be acceptable for almost anyone using teamliquid. If anything, that's where the "shots were fired", but I'm basically a target because I can't fire back.
The funny thing is, Kwark's beef has mostly been about my assertions about the Niger River, so let's lay out some fun facts:
- The root word for "Negro" comes from the Roman word for 'black'
- The Romans didn't call black people 'black'. They called them Aethiopians.
- The name of the river in Tuareg is Egerew Nigerewen.
- It is generally speculated that "Niger" is an alteration of the original name of the river. Mungo Park refers to the river as the "Niger" river in his journal.
- Ptolemy refers to a river in Africa that may have been the Niger River, the "Ger river"
- European explorers often gave names to regions they had explored differing from those regions' actual names - for example, China was "Cathay", Silla was "Korea", Thailand was "Siam", Myanmar was "Burma", and of course, the native Americans were called "Indians", and the islands Columbus explored are called The Indies to this day.
- The region of the Egerew Nigerewen was called "Niger", derived from the word "Negro" for "black", because the people there had dark skin.
- The Portuguese were the first Western Europeans to buy slaves from the region, but it was the Spanish who began purchasing "Nigers" from kingdoms like Ghana and Mali (who had an active slave trade already) to begin transporting slaves to the Americas.
- The notion of black inferiority spiked in relevancy around the 14th century, and the English referred to all Africans as "Negros" or "Nigerians" or "Nigers", and the word just continued to evolve from there, embroiled in racism.
In my original post, I said:
to be fair, there is significantly less persecution and oppression involved (if any, besides basic mockery) to "Muricans" as there is to "Niggers"
So while I accept your disagreement with what you perceived as "being ridiculous" from me, I think you simply did not read the thread, and came to the wrong conclusion about what I was saying. I wasn't even trying to make a "point", except perhaps that "Muricans" could be used in a derogatory manner. I don't care about the word, personally. That being said, I don't think I should've been called a "moron" by a teamliquid moderator. It baffles me how that is acceptable, but I also understand moderators are privy to certain rights not granted to regular users. But of course, that's still frustrating. I didn't mean to offend KwarK or anyone else, so I would certainly apologize if that is the case. I don't expect an apology in return, but it would still be appreciated.
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
i get offended everytime someone asks me if i'm american because it's true
a few moments of self loathing for being a part of evil before i go back to pretending i'm korean
murican doesn't bother me though, it just makes me visualize flamewheel's face, which i am neutral to
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I always found it funny how people can be offended by stuff like this. Yeah, murican is a derogatory term making fun of Americans by taking the stereotype of a dumb fat redneck and applying it to all americans. Everyone in the US who is offended by it are probably not like that, so it's meaningless to be offended about.
It's the same like in Sweden, immigrants call native swedes "svenne" which is derogatory as well, meaning dorky, boring, standard etc. Now, being considered a dork might not be as bad as a dumb redneck, but still, the point is to not apply it to yourself. Just because someone calls you something doesn't mean it's true, which is even more so true in the case when someone calls your nationality something which is obviously a stereotype.
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United States24701 Posts
On October 11 2013 16:08 Tobberoth wrote:
I always found it funny how people can be offended by stuff like this. Yeah, murican is a derogatory term making fun of Americans by taking the stereotype of a dumb fat redneck and applying it to all americans. Everyone in the US who is offended by it are probably not like that, so it's meaningless to be offended about.
It's the same like in Sweden, immigrants call native swedes "svenne" which is derogatory as well, meaning dorky, boring, standard etc. Now, being considered a dork might not be as bad as a dumb redneck, but still, the point is to not apply it to yourself. Just because someone calls you something doesn't mean it's true, which is even more so true in the case when someone calls your nationality something which is obviously a stereotype.
I generally agree with the idea of not needing to get insulted just because someone says something that can be insulting. I once read in a fortune cookie 'he who allows himself to be insulted, deserves to be' and I believe there is some truth there.
However, there is a difference between someone calling you a big fat doodoo head and someone referring to you as 'the rapist' instead of your name because 4 years ago someone spread a rumor that you raped someone even though it turned out to be false.
Neither of my examples are meant to parallel the 'mericans' discussion, but just show that how people can be expected to react to disparaging remarks depends on context and usage.
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EPT
