• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 07:43
CET 13:43
KST 21:43
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
Weekly Cups (Dec 15-21): Classic wins big, MaxPax & Clem take weeklies3ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career !11Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win4Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump1Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win2
StarCraft 2
General
ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career ! Team TLMC #5: Winners Announced! What's the best tug of war? The Grack before Christmas Weekly Cups (Dec 15-21): Classic wins big, MaxPax & Clem take weeklies
Tourneys
OSC Season 13 World Championship $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship $100 Prize Pool - Winter Warp Gate Masters Showdow Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Winter Warp Gate Amateur Showdown #1
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 505 Rise From Ashes Mutation # 504 Retribution Mutation # 503 Fowl Play Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion How soO Began His ProGaming Dreams Klaucher discontinued / in-game color settings BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Recommended FPV games (post-KeSPA)
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] LB SemiFinals - Saturday 21:00 CET [BSL21] WB & LB Finals - Sunday 21:00 CET Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Game Theory for Starcraft Current Meta Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Mechabellum Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Survivor II: The Amazon Sengoku Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread 12 Days of Starcraft The Games Industry And ATVI Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TL+ Announced Where to ask questions and add stream?
Blogs
National Diversity: A Challe…
TrAiDoS
I decided to write a webnov…
DjKniteX
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Saturation point
Uldridge
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1566 users

Good Writing in Science Fiction

Blogs > Blazinghand
Post a Reply
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25557 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-21 09:28:43
August 21 2013 09:26 GMT
#1

Good Writing in Science Fiction


So I mean for this to be a relatively long post, but I'm not sure where I'll run out of steam. Basically, I recently went on a spurt of science fiction reading and had a pretty good time. I consider sci fi to be one of my favorite genres, possibly my favorite. I like the ideas, I like the setting, I like learning new things and seeing thought experiments play out. At some point in the past week, though, I was horrified to discover I've become a connoisseur of science fiction novels. It's gotten to the point where I actually dislike some of the novels I read.

There are two big things that can go wrong with sci fi novels. Well, there are actually a lot of things that can go wrong with sci fi novels, but there are two big categories of troubled sci fi novels that I run into: novels with bad ideas and novels with bad writing. "Poorly written" seems like an obvious flaw for a story, and doubly so for a published novel, but poorly written sci fi is everywhere. In Slaughterhouse-Five, one of Vonnegut's characters complains similarly:
"Jesus--if Kilgore Trout could only write!" Rosewater exclaimed. He had a point: Kilgore Trout's unpopularity was deserved. His prose was frightful. Only his ideas were good.
And so it is in reality: there are authors with great ideas who can barely string their words together.

Rarer but more insidious is the author with terrible ideas who writes well. Such an author can string you along for several hundred pages before you realize you're reading an incredibly boring, incredibly well-written intergalactic snorefest. In a way, this is the worst-- because at least a Kilgore Troutian work could leave you with something valuable after you slogged your way through the words and reached the ideas inside. Empty prose, no matter how pretty, still encompasses nothing.

In the airport, I had an opportunity to pick up Spinward Fringe: Origins by Randolphe Lalonde. I recognized the author or the title from somewhere and I figured it would be a worthwhile read. With a rather long flight ahead and nothing on hand to read, I mowed through the book rather quickly. I found it almost lacking in both content and delivery. I will say that the basics of a space opera novel were all there-- an epic journey, powerful enemies, a tough little ship that's woefully overmatched by the Vindyne Corporation, and a crew of old friends thrown into new situations by a dangerous universe. What's there to hate? In terms of ideas, it was all old hat, remixing of existing sci-fi ideas. Ok, but not good on its own. What got me I guess was the writing. When it comes down to it, at the end of the novel, I still didn't know anything about Captain Valent's personality, or that of his first mate Oz. They're indistinct, uninteresting people. things just HAPPEN to Valent, he doesn't happen to them, he doesn't think, he's not unique. I don't know how he'd respond to anything new other than as a default protagonist. I can't write a fanfic on him because he's not real to me.

I contrast this with, say, The Mote in God's Eye by Niven and Pournelle. Unfair, I know, to compare to a Hugo winner, but whatever. The paragraph that introduces Bury tells me more about who he is, how he thinks, and how he'll act than the entirety of Origins told me about Valent. Although Admiral Kutuzov is a character who is on the sidelines for most of the novel, what few interactions he has with the main cast leave me with a deep impression of who he is, what he stands for, and what he believes in, long before there are any chapters from his perspective. Granted, I'm contrasting a first contact style novel with a space opera. Origins is more about the action, but in the end, I find the characters unrelatable. It's no Uplift Trilogy. I come away from it feeling like it was the plot of an expensive but not plot-oriented video game.

I certainly couldn't do better myself, but somehow I feel disappointed. Lalonde is certainly a better writer than me, and the fact that Spinward Fringe's universe isn't complex isn't a reason to dislike his book. When it comes down to it, though, I guess I just hoped for something that would at least take a risk and fail spectacularly, or succeed amazingly. Something less bland.

***
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
sths
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Australia192 Posts
August 21 2013 09:48 GMT
#2
I just started reading the Dune series (I know), so I am definitely not a connisseur of the sci fi genre. You make a lot of insightful points on bad writing/idea. Do you think it would be interesting to list some of what you consider bad writing vs good writing so that we can analyze the reasons for it? I guess it would be hard to compare the two so maybe just post what you would consider bad writing ie: paragraphs or sentences that irk you.
Gloomzy
Profile Joined June 2011
Australia42 Posts
August 21 2013 14:15 GMT
#3
Iain M. Bank's Culture series is amazing. Brilliant ideas, brilliant writing.
sam!zdat
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States5559 Posts
August 21 2013 18:40 GMT
#4
who needs good writing when you have manifest destiny... IN SPACE
shikata ga nai
remedium
Profile Joined July 2011
United States939 Posts
August 21 2013 18:53 GMT
#5
Hyperion dedicates an entire few pages to your last paragraph lol
Stay positive!
munchmunch
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada789 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-21 21:53:07
August 21 2013 21:52 GMT
#6
On August 21 2013 18:26 Blazinghand wrote:
I was horrified to discover I've become a connoisseur of science fiction novels. It's gotten to the point where I actually dislike some of the novels I read.
You don't have to a connoisseur to notice that your local steakhouse serves a better hamburger than McDonald's. It's not hard to notice that some SF novels are very bad.

I like to buy my science fiction at the used book store. It's cheaper, and it's also a lot of fun to browse the shelves of older books. But I've bought some very Troutian novels. The worst I have on my shelf is "I, Vampire" by Jody Scott. Here's the slogan on the front of the book:
Can a seven-hundred-year-old Transylvanian find true love with a revolutionary Rysemian fish-woman?

And from the back of the book:
+ Show Spoiler +
Misunderstood vampire Sterling O'Blivion was working at a dance studio in Chicago when the Rysemian starships landed and things began to change for the better. For one thing, the aliens could take any form they chose, human or otherwise, and Sterling fell head over heels for the one called Benaroya, who was presently disguised as Virginia Woolf. For another, Sterling got a neat new job as chief spokesperson for the aliens' front operation selling the Famous Men's Sperm Kit.

After seven hundred years, Sterling had begun to think the joy was going out of life. Now she had the chance to turn into Mr. Spock, to dance with Abraham Lincoln, and to fall wildly and truly in love. It was just the sort of romp an aging vampire needed!


The writing inside is unfortunately truly terrible.
sam!zdat
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States5559 Posts
August 22 2013 01:47 GMT
#7
If you want a well-written SF novel, why don't you try _A Time of Changes_ by Robert Silverberg?
shikata ga nai
Carnivorous Sheep
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Baa?21244 Posts
August 22 2013 02:30 GMT
#8
I actually found The Mote in God's Eye kind of clunky in terms of prose. I got more used to it after ~100 pages or so, but it certainly felt jarring and kinda meh to me.
TranslatorBaa!
sam!zdat
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States5559 Posts
August 22 2013 02:32 GMT
#9
On August 22 2013 11:30 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
I actually found The Mote in God's Eye kind of clunky in terms of prose. I got more used to it after ~100 pages or so, but it certainly felt jarring and kinda meh to me.


also those guys are fascists, so there's that
shikata ga nai
babylon
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
8765 Posts
August 22 2013 02:44 GMT
#10
On August 22 2013 06:52 munchmunch wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 21 2013 18:26 Blazinghand wrote:
I was horrified to discover I've become a connoisseur of science fiction novels. It's gotten to the point where I actually dislike some of the novels I read.
You don't have to a connoisseur to notice that your local steakhouse serves a better hamburger than McDonald's. It's not hard to notice that some SF novels are very bad.

I like to buy my science fiction at the used book store. It's cheaper, and it's also a lot of fun to browse the shelves of older books. But I've bought some very Troutian novels. The worst I have on my shelf is "I, Vampire" by Jody Scott. Here's the slogan on the front of the book:
Show nested quote +
Can a seven-hundred-year-old Transylvanian find true love with a revolutionary Rysemian fish-woman?

And from the back of the book:
+ Show Spoiler +
Misunderstood vampire Sterling O'Blivion was working at a dance studio in Chicago when the Rysemian starships landed and things began to change for the better. For one thing, the aliens could take any form they chose, human or otherwise, and Sterling fell head over heels for the one called Benaroya, who was presently disguised as Virginia Woolf. For another, Sterling got a neat new job as chief spokesperson for the aliens' front operation selling the Famous Men's Sperm Kit.

After seven hundred years, Sterling had begun to think the joy was going out of life. Now she had the chance to turn into Mr. Spock, to dance with Abraham Lincoln, and to fall wildly and truly in love. It was just the sort of romp an aging vampire needed!


The writing inside is unfortunately truly terrible.

Are you sure that book's not a parody? Or maybe it's just a book that's wacky for the sake of being wacky? It sounds like a lot of very successful but ridiculous sci-fi shows that don't take themselves too seriously (e.g. Doctor Who).

Anyways, I'm going to check it out stat. Sounds entertaining.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Sparkling Tuna Cup
10:00
2025 December Finals
Percival vs ByuNLIVE!
Classic vs TBD
CranKy Ducklings508
IndyStarCraft 262
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
IndyStarCraft 262
SortOf 143
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 38090
Rain 9231
Sea 4851
Jaedong 1196
GuemChi 1156
Stork 754
EffOrt 572
Soma 355
Mini 338
ggaemo 287
[ Show more ]
Hyuk 285
Mong 282
Light 237
Last 178
firebathero 176
hero 158
Rush 121
Hyun 95
PianO 90
sorry 83
Mind 79
Shuttle 73
Pusan 71
Barracks 65
ToSsGirL 65
Yoon 51
soO 42
Sea.KH 35
zelot 33
Shine 29
NotJumperer 28
Terrorterran 26
yabsab 26
ajuk12(nOOB) 13
Sexy 9
SilentControl 8
JulyZerg 7
Icarus 1
eros_byul 0
Dota 2
XcaliburYe761
League of Legends
C9.Mang0417
Counter-Strike
x6flipin796
Other Games
B2W.Neo2076
Pyrionflax471
Mew2King39
MindelVK22
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick736
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 75
• LUISG 1
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• Ler61
League of Legends
• Jankos2268
Upcoming Events
OSC
5h 17m
BSL 21
7h 17m
Cross vs Dewalt
Replay Cast
20h 17m
Wardi Open
23h 17m
OSC
1d 23h
Solar vs MaxPax
ByuN vs Krystianer
Spirit vs TBD
OSC
5 days
Korean StarCraft League
5 days
OSC
5 days
OSC
6 days
OSC
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S1: W1
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
BSL Season 21
CSL Season 19: Qualifier 2
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025

Upcoming

CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
Escore Tournament S1: W2
Escore Tournament S1: W3
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Big Gabe Cup #3
OSC Championship Season 13
Nations Cup 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.