• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 09:56
CEST 15:56
KST 22:56
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team TLMC #5 - Finalists & Open Tournaments0[ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt2: Turbulence10Classic Games #3: Rogue vs Serral at BlizzCon9[ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Ascent10Maestros of the Game: Week 1/Play-in Preview12
Community News
Weekly Cups (Sept 8-14): herO & MaxPax split cups4WardiTV TL Team Map Contest #5 Tournaments1SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia8Weekly Cups (Sept 1-7): MaxPax rebounds & Clem saga continues29LiuLi Cup - September 2025 Tournaments3
StarCraft 2
General
#1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time Weekly Cups (Sept 8-14): herO & MaxPax split cups Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy SpeCial on The Tasteless Podcast Team TLMC #5 - Finalists & Open Tournaments
Tourneys
Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament WardiTV TL Team Map Contest #5 Tournaments RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 491 Night Drive Mutation # 490 Masters of Midnight Mutation # 489 Bannable Offense Mutation # 488 What Goes Around
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ ASL20 General Discussion Pros React To: SoulKey's 5-Peat Challenge [ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt2: Turbulence BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[ASL20] Ro16 Group D [ASL20] Ro16 Group C [Megathread] Daily Proleagues SC4ALL $1,500 Open Bracket LAN
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Borderlands 3 Path of Exile General RTS Discussion Thread Nintendo Switch Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine UK Politics Mega-thread US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread High temperatures on bridge(s)
TL Community
BarCraft in Tokyo Japan for ASL Season5 Final The Automated Ban List
Blogs
The Personality of a Spender…
TrAiDoS
A very expensive lesson on ma…
Garnet
hello world
radishsoup
Lemme tell you a thing o…
JoinTheRain
RTS Design in Hypercoven
a11
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1239 users

Good Writing in Science Fiction

Blogs > Blazinghand
Post a Reply
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25552 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-21 09:28:43
August 21 2013 09:26 GMT
#1

Good Writing in Science Fiction


So I mean for this to be a relatively long post, but I'm not sure where I'll run out of steam. Basically, I recently went on a spurt of science fiction reading and had a pretty good time. I consider sci fi to be one of my favorite genres, possibly my favorite. I like the ideas, I like the setting, I like learning new things and seeing thought experiments play out. At some point in the past week, though, I was horrified to discover I've become a connoisseur of science fiction novels. It's gotten to the point where I actually dislike some of the novels I read.

There are two big things that can go wrong with sci fi novels. Well, there are actually a lot of things that can go wrong with sci fi novels, but there are two big categories of troubled sci fi novels that I run into: novels with bad ideas and novels with bad writing. "Poorly written" seems like an obvious flaw for a story, and doubly so for a published novel, but poorly written sci fi is everywhere. In Slaughterhouse-Five, one of Vonnegut's characters complains similarly:
"Jesus--if Kilgore Trout could only write!" Rosewater exclaimed. He had a point: Kilgore Trout's unpopularity was deserved. His prose was frightful. Only his ideas were good.
And so it is in reality: there are authors with great ideas who can barely string their words together.

Rarer but more insidious is the author with terrible ideas who writes well. Such an author can string you along for several hundred pages before you realize you're reading an incredibly boring, incredibly well-written intergalactic snorefest. In a way, this is the worst-- because at least a Kilgore Troutian work could leave you with something valuable after you slogged your way through the words and reached the ideas inside. Empty prose, no matter how pretty, still encompasses nothing.

In the airport, I had an opportunity to pick up Spinward Fringe: Origins by Randolphe Lalonde. I recognized the author or the title from somewhere and I figured it would be a worthwhile read. With a rather long flight ahead and nothing on hand to read, I mowed through the book rather quickly. I found it almost lacking in both content and delivery. I will say that the basics of a space opera novel were all there-- an epic journey, powerful enemies, a tough little ship that's woefully overmatched by the Vindyne Corporation, and a crew of old friends thrown into new situations by a dangerous universe. What's there to hate? In terms of ideas, it was all old hat, remixing of existing sci-fi ideas. Ok, but not good on its own. What got me I guess was the writing. When it comes down to it, at the end of the novel, I still didn't know anything about Captain Valent's personality, or that of his first mate Oz. They're indistinct, uninteresting people. things just HAPPEN to Valent, he doesn't happen to them, he doesn't think, he's not unique. I don't know how he'd respond to anything new other than as a default protagonist. I can't write a fanfic on him because he's not real to me.

I contrast this with, say, The Mote in God's Eye by Niven and Pournelle. Unfair, I know, to compare to a Hugo winner, but whatever. The paragraph that introduces Bury tells me more about who he is, how he thinks, and how he'll act than the entirety of Origins told me about Valent. Although Admiral Kutuzov is a character who is on the sidelines for most of the novel, what few interactions he has with the main cast leave me with a deep impression of who he is, what he stands for, and what he believes in, long before there are any chapters from his perspective. Granted, I'm contrasting a first contact style novel with a space opera. Origins is more about the action, but in the end, I find the characters unrelatable. It's no Uplift Trilogy. I come away from it feeling like it was the plot of an expensive but not plot-oriented video game.

I certainly couldn't do better myself, but somehow I feel disappointed. Lalonde is certainly a better writer than me, and the fact that Spinward Fringe's universe isn't complex isn't a reason to dislike his book. When it comes down to it, though, I guess I just hoped for something that would at least take a risk and fail spectacularly, or succeed amazingly. Something less bland.

***
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
sths
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
Australia192 Posts
August 21 2013 09:48 GMT
#2
I just started reading the Dune series (I know), so I am definitely not a connisseur of the sci fi genre. You make a lot of insightful points on bad writing/idea. Do you think it would be interesting to list some of what you consider bad writing vs good writing so that we can analyze the reasons for it? I guess it would be hard to compare the two so maybe just post what you would consider bad writing ie: paragraphs or sentences that irk you.
Gloomzy
Profile Joined June 2011
Australia42 Posts
August 21 2013 14:15 GMT
#3
Iain M. Bank's Culture series is amazing. Brilliant ideas, brilliant writing.
sam!zdat
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States5559 Posts
August 21 2013 18:40 GMT
#4
who needs good writing when you have manifest destiny... IN SPACE
shikata ga nai
remedium
Profile Joined July 2011
United States939 Posts
August 21 2013 18:53 GMT
#5
Hyperion dedicates an entire few pages to your last paragraph lol
Stay positive!
munchmunch
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada789 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-08-21 21:53:07
August 21 2013 21:52 GMT
#6
On August 21 2013 18:26 Blazinghand wrote:
I was horrified to discover I've become a connoisseur of science fiction novels. It's gotten to the point where I actually dislike some of the novels I read.
You don't have to a connoisseur to notice that your local steakhouse serves a better hamburger than McDonald's. It's not hard to notice that some SF novels are very bad.

I like to buy my science fiction at the used book store. It's cheaper, and it's also a lot of fun to browse the shelves of older books. But I've bought some very Troutian novels. The worst I have on my shelf is "I, Vampire" by Jody Scott. Here's the slogan on the front of the book:
Can a seven-hundred-year-old Transylvanian find true love with a revolutionary Rysemian fish-woman?

And from the back of the book:
+ Show Spoiler +
Misunderstood vampire Sterling O'Blivion was working at a dance studio in Chicago when the Rysemian starships landed and things began to change for the better. For one thing, the aliens could take any form they chose, human or otherwise, and Sterling fell head over heels for the one called Benaroya, who was presently disguised as Virginia Woolf. For another, Sterling got a neat new job as chief spokesperson for the aliens' front operation selling the Famous Men's Sperm Kit.

After seven hundred years, Sterling had begun to think the joy was going out of life. Now she had the chance to turn into Mr. Spock, to dance with Abraham Lincoln, and to fall wildly and truly in love. It was just the sort of romp an aging vampire needed!


The writing inside is unfortunately truly terrible.
sam!zdat
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States5559 Posts
August 22 2013 01:47 GMT
#7
If you want a well-written SF novel, why don't you try _A Time of Changes_ by Robert Silverberg?
shikata ga nai
Carnivorous Sheep
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Baa?21243 Posts
August 22 2013 02:30 GMT
#8
I actually found The Mote in God's Eye kind of clunky in terms of prose. I got more used to it after ~100 pages or so, but it certainly felt jarring and kinda meh to me.
TranslatorBaa!
sam!zdat
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States5559 Posts
August 22 2013 02:32 GMT
#9
On August 22 2013 11:30 Carnivorous Sheep wrote:
I actually found The Mote in God's Eye kind of clunky in terms of prose. I got more used to it after ~100 pages or so, but it certainly felt jarring and kinda meh to me.


also those guys are fascists, so there's that
shikata ga nai
babylon
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
8765 Posts
August 22 2013 02:44 GMT
#10
On August 22 2013 06:52 munchmunch wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 21 2013 18:26 Blazinghand wrote:
I was horrified to discover I've become a connoisseur of science fiction novels. It's gotten to the point where I actually dislike some of the novels I read.
You don't have to a connoisseur to notice that your local steakhouse serves a better hamburger than McDonald's. It's not hard to notice that some SF novels are very bad.

I like to buy my science fiction at the used book store. It's cheaper, and it's also a lot of fun to browse the shelves of older books. But I've bought some very Troutian novels. The worst I have on my shelf is "I, Vampire" by Jody Scott. Here's the slogan on the front of the book:
Show nested quote +
Can a seven-hundred-year-old Transylvanian find true love with a revolutionary Rysemian fish-woman?

And from the back of the book:
+ Show Spoiler +
Misunderstood vampire Sterling O'Blivion was working at a dance studio in Chicago when the Rysemian starships landed and things began to change for the better. For one thing, the aliens could take any form they chose, human or otherwise, and Sterling fell head over heels for the one called Benaroya, who was presently disguised as Virginia Woolf. For another, Sterling got a neat new job as chief spokesperson for the aliens' front operation selling the Famous Men's Sperm Kit.

After seven hundred years, Sterling had begun to think the joy was going out of life. Now she had the chance to turn into Mr. Spock, to dance with Abraham Lincoln, and to fall wildly and truly in love. It was just the sort of romp an aging vampire needed!


The writing inside is unfortunately truly terrible.

Are you sure that book's not a parody? Or maybe it's just a book that's wacky for the sake of being wacky? It sounds like a lot of very successful but ridiculous sci-fi shows that don't take themselves too seriously (e.g. Doctor Who).

Anyways, I'm going to check it out stat. Sounds entertaining.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
LiuLi Cup
11:00
Weekly #6
RotterdaM636
WardiTV558
TKL 165
IndyStarCraft 164
Rex151
CranKy Ducklings105
IntoTheiNu 20
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 636
TKL 165
IndyStarCraft 164
Rex 151
ProTech73
Vindicta 31
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 43552
Bisu 2811
Rain 2286
GuemChi 1892
Horang2 1746
Hyuk 1452
EffOrt 694
firebathero 623
BeSt 578
Mini 504
[ Show more ]
Larva 446
Killer 372
Zeus 200
Soma 200
ZerO 174
Snow 158
Hyun 143
Last 140
hero 96
Sharp 92
Rush 62
JYJ59
sorry 56
ToSsGirL 47
Backho 45
soO 39
Sexy 27
Free 26
Yoon 23
sas.Sziky 19
scan(afreeca) 19
Sacsri 18
ajuk12(nOOB) 14
Noble 13
Bale 11
NaDa 10
Hm[arnc] 8
Terrorterran 8
Dota 2
Gorgc4329
singsing3779
qojqva2430
Dendi1542
420jenkins336
XcaliburYe320
Fuzer 231
Counter-Strike
zeus503
oskar123
Other Games
gofns30914
tarik_tv18856
B2W.Neo1012
hiko448
DeMusliM406
crisheroes332
Hui .230
XaKoH 134
Liquid`VortiX87
Sick81
QueenE57
NeuroSwarm37
Trikslyr29
ZerO(Twitch)11
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 1485
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• intothetv
• sooper7s
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• IndyKCrew
• Kozan
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 31
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 2933
• WagamamaTV254
League of Legends
• Nemesis6629
• Jankos1584
• TFBlade303
Other Games
• Shiphtur82
Upcoming Events
OSC
5h 4m
Cure vs Iba
MaxPax vs Lemon
Gerald vs ArT
Solar vs goblin
Nicoract vs TBD
Spirit vs Percival
Cham vs TBD
ByuN vs Jumy
RSL Revival
20h 4m
Maru vs Reynor
Cure vs TriGGeR
The PondCast
23h 4m
RSL Revival
1d 20h
Zoun vs Classic
Korean StarCraft League
2 days
BSL Open LAN 2025 - War…
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
BSL Open LAN 2025 - War…
3 days
RSL Revival
3 days
Online Event
4 days
[ Show More ]
Wardi Open
4 days
Monday Night Weeklies
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
LiuLi Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-09-10
Chzzk MurlocKing SC1 vs SC2 Cup #2
HCC Europe

Ongoing

BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Points
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
LASL Season 20
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1

Upcoming

2025 Chongqing Offline CUP
BSL World Championship of Poland 2025
IPSL Winter 2025-26
BSL Season 21
SC4ALL: Brood War
BSL 21 Team A
Stellar Fest
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
EC S1
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.