• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 15:41
CET 21:41
KST 05:41
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career !3Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win2Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump1Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win2BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced15
StarCraft 2
General
ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career ! Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win Did they add GM to 2v2? RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump
Tourneys
Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) Winter Warp Gate Amateur Showdown #1: Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship StarCraft2.fi 15th Anniversary Cup
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 504 Retribution Mutation # 503 Fowl Play Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement Mutation # 501 Price of Progress
Brood War
General
How Rain Became ProGamer in Just 3 Months FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ [BSL21] RO8 Bracket & Prediction Contest BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] RO8 - Day 2 - Sunday 21:00 CET [ASL20] Grand Finals [BSL21] RO8 - Day 1 - Saturday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Game Theory for Starcraft Simple Questions, Simple Answers Current Meta Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Dawn of War IV Nintendo Switch Thread PC Games Sales Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Survivor II: The Amazon Sengoku Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine YouTube Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TL+ Announced Where to ask questions and add stream?
Blogs
How Sleep Deprivation Affect…
TrAiDoS
I decided to write a webnov…
DjKniteX
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1901 users

Puzzle Games

Blogs > ChristianS
Post a Reply
ChristianS
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States3262 Posts
August 17 2013 09:08 GMT
#1
+ Show Spoiler [A Note on Context] +
I just returned home from a couple weeks out of town without much internet access. I've planned on continuing my series of blogs on playing to win at games that do not warrant a hyper-competitive attitude, including an entry on Slender TEP and an entry on puzzle league games. But in the process of writing the puzzle league blog, I realized that many of my comments belonged in a separate blog about puzzle games in general, which could then be referenced in the blog more focused on puzzle league strategy specifically. Apologies that this blog does not have the usual subtitles, pictures, and captions to break up text, but I didn't think this was a blog that warranted those measures.


Puzzle games are, at their heart, composed of three things: an arrangement of elements, a mode of player manipulation of those elements, and a goal. Without the first, there's nothing to manipulate, so gameplay is impossible. Without the second, the player can only watch the puzzle sit there, with no means of achieving the goal. And without the third, there's nothing to make one decision preferable over another, so gameplay is arbitrary and uninteresting. This last ingredient is negotiable, since one can imagine an "open world" puzzle game with no explicit goal set (for example, the World of Goo Corporation area in World of Goo, where the player can arrange goo structures freely without a win condition), but the first two are absolutely necessary.

In these terms, a puzzle game remains interesting by rearranging the elements, while keeping the mode of interaction and the goal the same (sometimes the mode of interaction is modified, too, but usually only when new modes of interaction are added one at a time to introduce the player to the game more slowly). Each new level has a different set of elements to be manipulated, so even though the mode of interaction is the same, a different strategy must be employed. This means a good puzzle game must have strategy which is contingent on the particular arrangement of the elements. If the same strategy can be employed effectively in every situation – that is, if the strategy is not contingent – then strategic diversity is inhibited, and strategic diversity is the heart of what makes any strategy game interesting, puzzle games included.

Consider the classic puzzle genre: the elements are differently colored blocks, arranged in a two-dimensional grid on screen. The mode of interaction is through the swapping of adjacent blocks. The goal is matching three or more like-colored blocks in a line to clear them. This premise is common in puzzle games, but it has an essential problem: by a series of horizontal and vertical swaps, you can move any block anywhere on screen, so the initial arrangement of blocks is largely arbitrary since you can rearrange them as freely as you please. Strategy is not contingent on the arrangement of the elements, so strategic diversity suffers.

Bejeweled solves this problem by restricting legal swaps to those that create a match of three or more. This restricts player interaction really quite heavily; at any given time the player likely has under ten possible moves, and often times only two or three. That means strategy is quite contingent, since your decision-making must change depending on how the elements are arranged; but strategic diversity is still fairly low, simply because there are so few options at any given time.

Puzzle league, on the other hand, introduces a different restriction: swaps can be made freely, but only between horizontally adjacent blocks. This means that players can control the column of a block, but not the row (at least, not directly). Player options are still fairly numerous – in a 6x10 grid, there are 50 possible moves at any given time, compared to 104 possible moves with vertical swaps allowed. But by restricting vertical swaps, strategy is contingent on the blocks' arrangements, so strategic diversity is actually increased by reducing player options.

If you've played both puzzle league and Bejeweled, the difference is pretty evident. Bejeweled is generally considered a fairly casual, laid-back game, with fairly little strategic decision-making; puzzle league has remarkable depth of strategy, and a player can easily invest dozens or even hundreds of hours without hitting a skill cap.

Conclusions

One conclusion of all this is that puzzle league games are better than Bejeweled – and I'm certainly friendly to that proposition. But more generally, I'd argue that in designing a puzzle game (or even other strategy games) to maximize strategic diversity, the player must have enough freedom to have many decision options at any given time, but with too much freedom, player strategies do not need to adjust to a given situation, and strategic diversity suffers again.

So, at least in these terms, the trick is to find a set of restrictions that forces the player to come up with different strategies tailored to particular situations, while retaining player options as much as possible. In the case of match-three block puzzles, that means placing the smallest restriction on player interaction possible that still forces the player to consider the blocks and choose a strategy based on them, rather than form a strategy beforehand and then force the blocks to conform.

****
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." -Robert J. Hanlon
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States45161 Posts
August 17 2013 11:24 GMT
#2
My top two favorite puzzle games:

1. Kirby's Avalanche (which is basically the same as Dr. Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine). Colored pairs of blobs fall from the sky; you can move, rotate, and stack them as they fall. Combine/ connect four or more of the same colored blobs to eliminate them from your side of the screen, but you can set up sick chain reactions (one break leading to another automatic break, etc.) to give your opponent colorless blobs ("boulders") and often bury him in them, filling up his side of the screen and giving you an advantage:



2. Pokemon Puzzle League. A tower of colored blocks constantly rises up the screen (although while you're breaking blocks, this often pauses for you, giving you time to breathe and think). You can switch the position of any two blocks that are side-by-side (left and right of each other only), and putting three or more of the same colored blocks in a line removes them from your screen. You can also move blocks as other breaks occur, setting up more and more amazing combinations and chain reactions that bury your opponent in colored bars that they need to break:

"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
pebble444
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Italy2500 Posts
August 18 2013 00:54 GMT
#3
Is chess a puzzle game? then if not i guess Mastermind
"Awaken my Child, and embrace the Glory that is your Birthright"
lac29
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States1485 Posts
August 18 2013 01:04 GMT
#4
Kirby's Avalanche ... is that like a puyo puyo ripoff?
tl2212
Profile Joined April 2013
Belize731 Posts
August 18 2013 01:40 GMT
#5
pokemon puzzle challenge was the SHIT i played it for the GBA and it had 5 difficulties: easy, medium, hard, super hard and INTENSE (which was black)
economy over everything
LaiShin
Profile Joined November 2005
Australia978 Posts
August 18 2013 02:24 GMT
#6
Super puzzle fighter was my favourite ever.

Mix of speed and strategy.
ChristianS
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States3262 Posts
August 18 2013 03:16 GMT
#7
On August 18 2013 11:24 LaiShin wrote:
Super puzzle fighter was my favourite ever.

Mix of speed and strategy.

You know, people always mention that as the greatest puzzle game. I've played it a few times, and can recognize it does a lot right, but somehow I can never quite get into it they way I did almost immediately with Tetris Attack (the first puzzle league game I played). I think I like the concept of Super Puzzle Fighter more than I actually like Super Puzzle Fighter
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." -Robert J. Hanlon
LaiShin
Profile Joined November 2005
Australia978 Posts
August 18 2013 04:41 GMT
#8
I never got into high level Tetris myself and I started off with puzzle fighter. So that's something to consider.

Maybe it's also because Tetris on the highest level was impressive even for someone who hasn't played the game before, as it was easier to grasp what's amazing play. For puzzle fighter to have the same effect, you have to understand/play the game quite a bit. Tetris has a higher skill ceiling imo. Hence why Tetris -> puzzle fighter would feel underwhelming.

ChristianS
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States3262 Posts
August 18 2013 07:56 GMT
#9
To clarify, Tetris Attack is not a Tetris game. It's like Panel de Pon or Pokemon Puzzle League after it – it just had the Tetris name and Yoshi's island characters to attract American audiences. I've never played high level Tetris, either; it feels a lot more reflex-based and mindless compared to other puzzle games.

But I should give puzzle fighter another chance. I think partly the strategy of it never quite became apparent while I was playing it, and it was before I discovered just how awesome puzzle games can be.
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." -Robert J. Hanlon
[X]Ken_D
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
United States4650 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-01-31 08:32:03
January 31 2014 07:26 GMT
#10
On August 18 2013 10:04 lac29 wrote:
Kirby's Avalanche ... is that like a puyo puyo ripoff?


No. It's the US Nintendo license of Puyo Puyo. Nintendo changed the look hoping to appeal to a western audience. On the SEGA Genesis, it was called Dr. Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine. They are both license of the original Puyo Puyo. Sadly, the most popular Puyo Puyo which was Puyo Puyo Tsuu (2) did not come to the west. Tsuu is the tournament standard.

Sega had hopes of releasing it outside of Japan, and, although they did, they didn't have the original names or characters. The first was released in February 1993 under the name Dr. Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine (for Sega Mega Drive, Sega Master System and Sega Game Gear). Nintendo would also get their version of Puyo Puyo for the Super NES outside Japan, but under the name Kirby's Avalanche (Kirby's Ghost Trap in Europe), in which the original characters were replaced by the Kirby series ones.
[X]Domain - I just do the website. Nothing more.
ChristianS
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States3262 Posts
January 31 2014 20:55 GMT
#11
On January 31 2014 16:26 [X]Ken_D wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 18 2013 10:04 lac29 wrote:
Kirby's Avalanche ... is that like a puyo puyo ripoff?


No. It's the US Nintendo license of Puyo Puyo. Nintendo changed the look hoping to appeal to a western audience. On the SEGA Genesis, it was called Dr. Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine. They are both license of the original Puyo Puyo. Sadly, the most popular Puyo Puyo which was Puyo Puyo Tsuu (2) did not come to the west. Tsuu is the tournament standard.

Show nested quote +
Sega had hopes of releasing it outside of Japan, and, although they did, they didn't have the original names or characters. The first was released in February 1993 under the name Dr. Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine (for Sega Mega Drive, Sega Master System and Sega Game Gear). Nintendo would also get their version of Puyo Puyo for the Super NES outside Japan, but under the name Kirby's Avalanche (Kirby's Ghost Trap in Europe), in which the original characters were replaced by the Kirby series ones.

Woah, this thread again. Uh, thanks for the necro clarification I guess! I can't imagine what motivated you to hunt down this thread 5 months later, but good on you
"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." -Robert J. Hanlon
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
17:00
OSC Elite Rising Star #17
Shameless vs YoungYakovLIVE!
SteadfastSC357
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SteadfastSC 357
ProTech147
NeuroSwarm 49
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 14140
Calm 1548
EffOrt 366
Dewaltoss 130
ggaemo 94
Mong 28
Movie 23
Dota 2
Dendi1889
Counter-Strike
Foxcn475
minikerr28
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu410
Other Games
Grubby3489
FrodaN1411
Beastyqt701
B2W.Neo587
Fuzer 383
ArmadaUGS166
XaKoH 106
C9.Mang0104
QueenE77
Trikslyr52
ZombieGrub24
Chillindude21
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV22
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Reevou 15
• Kozan
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Migwel
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• Pr0nogo 1
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV986
League of Legends
• Nemesis3109
• TFBlade1046
Other Games
• imaqtpie1410
• Shiphtur211
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
13h 19m
WardiTV 2025
16h 19m
Cure vs Creator
Solar vs TBD
herO vs Spirit
Scarlett vs Gerald
MaNa vs ShoWTimE
Nice vs TBD
WardiTV 2025
1d 14h
OSC
1d 17h
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
SC Evo League
2 days
Ladder Legends
2 days
BSL 21
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
Ladder Legends
3 days
[ Show More ]
BSL 21
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Monday Night Weeklies
4 days
WardiTV Invitational
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - TS3
RSL Offline Finals
Kuram Kup

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
Slon Tour Season 2
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22

Upcoming

CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Big Gabe Cup #3
OSC Championship Season 13
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.