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So the positive is that once a cop is writing you a ticket, you forget your girlfriend broke up with you for an hour hahah.
I was just wondering if anyone had any helpful tips from experience fighting tickets in court. I got one today, I was clocked at approx 49 mph (moving radar*) in a 25 (residential). Wide 2 lane road with a turning lane 2 bikes lanes and wide sidewalks on each side, no houses around me and I was literally 40ft from turning on to a highway. Really frustrates me because I was driving safe, in an area that should probably be a 35-45 tbh. Wasn't putting anyone in danger, including myself, and that is after all what traffic laws are for. Safety. Its also crazy to me because there are much more dangerous roads that are 45+ mph, because the government doesn't give 2 shits about those people getting hit by a car. Whoever decides what speed limits belong where, must be smoking crack.
A.I plan on taking it to court, being as polite as possible, and studying up on ways to defend myself. I have already read that Moving Radar* is a possible defense but it seems like you have to do a lot of work to defend yourself (ask the officer a list of questions basically and try and catch any way the radar could be inaccurate). The case is pretty much laid out online and you can look it up.
B.I think though, I am better off just being polite, maybe taking a picture of where I got the ticket to show that I wasn't endangering anyone. Explain that I saw the cop, knew I was doing nothing wrong, didn't change the way I was driving, slow down or speed up. We were both very polite to each other and then I was on my way. I was 100 miles from home making a delivery for my business. Never even had a parking ticket. I had an accident but it was more than 5 years ago. I have to drive almost 200 hundred miles round trip to fight the ticket. But its worth $260 if I think I can beat it.
I really feel like playing the moving radar card and trying to question the ability of the officer is a d-bag move and probably won't help my cause. So I think just being nice, showing that I was being safe and careful (I was, I had just come out of the residential part of the area and was driving 20 around there when its a 25). Is my best bet and maybe at least they will reduce the ticket.
What do you guys think? I don't mind anyone answering but I would like someone with some experience. 
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Not sure about how it works in the States, but hardly anyone pays tickets where I live. The result is a summons to court and most of the time the cop never shows up to give evidence and therefore you're let off without any repecussions.
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On April 16 2013 06:45 IRL_Sinister wrote:
Not sure about how it works in the States, but hardly anyone pays tickets where I live. The result is a summons to court and most of the time the cop never shows up to give evidence and therefore you're let off without any repecussions.
Yeah I just read also that if I reschedule the court date I have a better chance the cop won't show up. Which I live far enough away that might be an option. Just say that day doesn't work for me, "sorry I don't have two and a half hours to give you that day". Just silly to me, I know it was way over the limit (possibly) but just looking at where I got it just seems so silly to me. A weeks pay for endangering no one.
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Well, my comment is if you aren't aware enough to see the cop and slow down, then you probably aren't aware enough to drive at the speed you were going. However that is a general comment on all driving/drivers, not one directed at your situation. If you really have a problem with it going to court seems to beat the ticket most times (even though you were clearly breaking the law).
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So you think instead of a wrongspeedy, this was a rightspeedy?
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Just pay the damn ticket.
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On April 16 2013 06:52 Sn0_Man wrote:
Well, my comment is if you aren't aware enough to see the cop and slow down, then you probably aren't aware enough to drive at the speed you were going. However that is a general comment on all driving/drivers, not one directed at your situation. If you really have a problem with it going to court seems to beat the ticket most times (even though you were clearly breaking the law).
I WAS aware of him. I didn't say it the other way around. I was aware, but I wasn't aware I was doing anything wrong. I was driving a safe speed. Not really worried about going to court per-se because they cannot raise the cost of the ticket and I won't need to hire anyone to defend me for a speeding ticket. I don't lose anything by going to court, but by not trying to defend myself my insurance will wreck me. 24 Year old male-speeding ticket-insurance company bends you over sans the KY Jelly.
Slowing down once you see the cop is as good as admitting you are guilty. I didn't even tell the officer what speed I thought I was going, and the radar he used to catch me is the least accurate radar he could use. Courts just nerve racking even with low stakes. I was in debate in school but I never completely got rid of butterflies
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On April 16 2013 07:08 Zidane wrote:
Just pay the damn ticket. This is terrible advice; don't listen. I think its pragmatic to consider whether sources you listen to are knowledgeable and well-informed sources in legal situations like this. What state was this?
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I don't drive at all so I don't know if I'm missing something, but isn't "I knew I was breaking the speed limit by almost double, but it's because I feel like it should be higher" a terrible reason?
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I was expecting a more reasonable like you were going 3 above or something but going almost double and you are going to try to fight it? If the cop shows up (they do most of the time in the states) then you will have just wasted a part of your day for something you are going to have to pay for anyway.
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I dunno, I had a friend who was going around 40 in a 25 mph zone. He got his best suit on, him and his dad wrote up his argument and got it binded all fancy-like, complained about the radar inaccuracy, "moving at the speed of traffic" crap, and he got off completely free.
And trust me, he's a pretty bad speaker.
I say fight it 
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Moving Radar can be a good defense. Was the cop moving or still when he clocked you? If he was moving you can probably get away. I haven't read the defense you describe but I know that moving radar is bs and should not be legal, due to the high likelihood of an incorrect reading.
You can also get the info on the specific radar gun that was used. Look up how long it's been since its last calibration. If it's past due for a calibration, you can probably get away.
If it's not past due for a calibration, you could try to get approval to test the gun yourself, though that probably isn't worth the time or hassle. The idea is to take your car, a stopwatch, and the gun to a safe location such as a parking lot. Measure an exact distance with long tape, say 100 ft, then have someone drive the distance at a set speed on cruise, say 10 mph. If you can't find a safe location you can do it in a packed parking lot, just set the car on cruise at 10mph and mark the distance lines inside one of the aisles where cars are supposed to drive. Start behind the first line and cruise up to it and past the finish. The person who is not driving uses the stopwatch to record how long the car took to go the distance. At the same time, the stopwatch person takes a reading with the gun.
Using simple math, show what the exact mathematical speed of the car was, and then compare that with the reading the gun gives you. If the two speeds are more than 4mph different, you can probably get away. You can even do this test multiple times and see if the gun gives different results.
Good luck!
Edit: If the gun is only 4mph different, you can still get away, because the guy clocked you at the wrong speed. You only have a ticket that says you were going 49mph. So if you can show that the ticket is 4mph off using the gun measurements or calibration as evidence, then you can argue that the speed on the ticket is wrong and the case should therefore be thrown out.
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Don't have much else to add but good luck! I've found that just showing up and being very polite and saying "yes I understand I was wrong but" and then giving your defense in most cases will knock the price of the ticket down substantially alone.
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On April 16 2013 07:21 calgar wrote:This is terrible advice; don't listen. I think its pragmatic to consider whether sources you listen to are knowledgeable and well-informed sources in legal situations like this. What state was this?
Its Oregon. We have crazy low speed limits in some places. I feel like if I took a picture of where I was my speed would seem reasonable.
And he was driving towards me on a motorcycle. He had just turned off the highway I was driving to.
On April 16 2013 08:06 OmniEulogy wrote:
Don't have much else to add but good luck! I've found that just showing up and being very polite and saying "yes I understand I was wrong but" and then giving your defense in most cases will knock the price of the ticket down substantially alone.
Yeah, how you say things and the intent you try and put behind it is very important. I think it will be important to come off as feeling bad about it (which I do, so not a problem). But I am silly not to defend myself, because realistically, it will cost me thousands of dollars if I get the ticket, and it raises my insurance. I am a very experienced driver (I raced dirt carts when I was 10 years old that were faster than what I was driving, not gonna use that as defense hahah). I could not honestly tell you exactly how fast I was going, I just drove out of the actual residential area and I was still being careful looking for pedestrians and animals, checking my gps (I was working), and when I motorcycle cop turns my direction 50 yards away I pucker up, guilty or not. I was paying close attention to the road, saw him when he saw me, pulled over carefully, watched for bikers. If there had been a side road I could pull onto so he could come to my drivers side I would have but the next road was the Highway. I would be happy with some kind of reduced fee, most importantly anything I can do to keep my insurance as it is would be amazing.
On April 16 2013 08:18 metbull wrote:
49 in a 25.......I'd ticket you too... especially if you saw me and didn't do anything to alter your speed.
I don't think the "Moving Radar" is going to work if you are 24 mph over the speed limit.
If it is a Trooper you are sunk. They are usually trained to visually determine a vehicle's speed, within 5mph +/- (according to my policing professor, who is a retired Lt.State Trooper) before they even turn on the radar (this applies if they are not moving).
Yeah I totally get why he had to write the ticket, I didn't argue with him 1 mili second. I said please and thank you. I said "Thank You" to a man who just handed me a $260 ticket, with complete sincerity. I have actually heard of people writing letters to cops to get off of tickets, I don't think its out of the option for me to at least try that first. But thousands of dollars man people don't always understand that, yes the ticket is 260, your insurance will destroy you.
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49 in a 25.......I'd ticket you too... especially if you saw me and didn't do anything to alter your speed.
I don't think the "Moving Radar" is going to work if you are 24 mph over the speed limit in a residential area.
If it is a Trooper you are sunk. They are usually trained to visually determine a vehicle's speed, within 5mph +/- (according to my policing professor, who is a retired Lt.State Trooper) before they even turn on the radar (this applies if they are not moving).
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Thanks everyone for the replies so far, its been great to see a wide variety of opinions. I am optimistic I think. Weighing all my options before I make any moves.
Edit: Here is the website I looked at that explained moving radar, it looks outdated but I think the information is still good. And I didn't see any dates on the website.
http://tipmra.com/new_tipmra/moving_radar_update.htm
Simply put the car or motorcycle has antenna on the front and back that can shoot beams out and determine the speed of the officers vehicle and the speed at which you are approaching the officers vehicle then it does the math to determine your speed, but it has to be aimed and calibrated correctly and there are many things that can cause it to give false readings. Including objects on the side of the road.
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Good luck fighting it. That is a huge amount of speeding.
I didnt bother to fight mine... I was going 70 on the freeway (speed limit was 60). Yay for quota's.
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On April 16 2013 09:10 TheRabidDeer wrote:
Good luck fighting it. That is a huge amount of speeding.
I didnt bother to fight mine... I was going 70 on the freeway (speed limit was 60). Yay for quota's.
LOL Its Tax Day today too..
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On April 16 2013 09:11 Wrongspeedy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2013 09:10 TheRabidDeer wrote:
Good luck fighting it. That is a huge amount of speeding.
I didnt bother to fight mine... I was going 70 on the freeway (speed limit was 60). Yay for quota's. LOL Its Tax Day today too..
Mine was years ago, dont even think it effects my insurance or anything anymore.
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On April 16 2013 07:43 blade55555 wrote:
I was expecting a more reasonable like you were going 3 above or something but going almost double and you are going to try to fight it? If the cop shows up (they do most of the time in the states) then you will have just wasted a part of your day for something you are going to have to pay for anyway.
I agree with Blade, everyone i know that tries to fight them the cop shows and they fail. Not only do you not have a reasonable excuse as to why you broke the speed limit, but you should have seen the posted speed. Trying to make the officer sound like a dick and questioning his ability to use a radar gun is going to make you look guilty and looking for excuses. You are going to waste the day and still have to pay for the ticket I guarentee you.
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Last time I went to "fight" a parking ticket there were 2 lines, one to pay the fine at a reduced amount, and the other was to fight it. Guess which one took less time.
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On April 16 2013 06:39 Wrongspeedy wrote:
Never even had a parking ticket. I had an accident but it was more than 5 years ago. I have to drive almost 200 hundred miles round trip to fight the ticket. But its worth $260 if I think I can beat it.
If you haven't had an accident or a traffic violation in the past two years, you can show up to court, plead good driving record, and it will get dismissed. The end. You can do this as many times as you want, as long as its been over two years since the last time something happened with you, your car, and the long dick of the law.
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On April 16 2013 09:46 Iranon wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2013 06:39 Wrongspeedy wrote:
Never even had a parking ticket. I had an accident but it was more than 5 years ago. I have to drive almost 200 hundred miles round trip to fight the ticket. But its worth $260 if I think I can beat it. If you haven't had an accident or a traffic violation in the past two years, you can show up to court, plead good driving record, and it will get dismissed. The end. You can do this as many times as you want, as long as its been over two years since the last time something happened with you, your car, and the long dick of the law.
Yeah I have been driving for 8 years I had one accident and this is the first ticket I have ever been issued. I had been pulled over once but it was just because I was driving 40 in a 35 at 2 am and he wanted to make sure I wasn't up to anything. I was just on my way to work, where that part time sheriff was actually a part-time manager
Not gonna try anything fancy or try and make the cop look bad, I just don't need it messing up my insurance.
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On April 16 2013 07:38 Iyerbeth wrote:
I don't drive at all so I don't know if I'm missing something, but isn't "I knew I was breaking the speed limit by almost double, but it's because I feel like it should be higher" a terrible reason?
Also what I was thinking. Good luck on the moveable radar but I probably wouldn't mention this part. I don't drive very much as well fwiw.
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On April 16 2013 06:50 Wrongspeedy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2013 06:45 IRL_Sinister wrote:
Not sure about how it works in the States, but hardly anyone pays tickets where I live. The result is a summons to court and most of the time the cop never shows up to give evidence and therefore you're let off without any repecussions. Yeah I just read also that if I reschedule the court date I have a better chance the cop won't show up. Which I live far enough away that might be an option. Just say that day doesn't work for me, "sorry I don't have two and a half hours to give you that day". Just silly to me, I know it was way over the limit (possibly) but just looking at where I got it just seems so silly to me. A weeks pay for endangering no one.
Does this actually work? I have gotten a ticket and went to court. The cop did not show up but it was not just thrown out.
Edit: I don't know if there is much of a point in fighting it. You were speeding regardless whether you feel the speed limit should be higher and had not actually reached the area(highway) with the higher speed limit
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On April 16 2013 07:21 calgar wrote:This is terrible advice; don't listen. I think its pragmatic to consider whether sources you listen to are knowledgeable and well-informed sources in legal situations like this. What state was this?
...wtf? It's a state where he got a ticket going double the speed limit. That's every damn state.
OP, you even freely admit you were in the wrong here (and the fact that you saw the cop but didn't slow down *just in case* was pretty silly). You shouldn't be able to get off scot-free. A speeding ticket of that nature could possibly put ~2 points on your license, which you don't want. A fine is better; you pay it and you're done with the ticket. However, after a certain number of points accumulate on your license (here in NJ, it's 6 points), you have to pay a surcharge and your insurance goes up because you've become an "unsafe driver".
Therefore, I would plead down to a "no points violation"- a charge where the fine you pay might be a bit higher, but you don't get any points. Most prosecutors are happy to agree to this, as their district gets your fine, but the money that you pay with an increase in insurance costs doesn't go to them. (You get two "no points violation" freebies every five years... you often can't do it more than twice in five years). Bring up this option to the prosecutor when you talk to him in court.
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On April 16 2013 11:15 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2013 07:21 calgar wrote:On April 16 2013 07:08 Zidane wrote:
Just pay the damn ticket. This is terrible advice; don't listen. I think its pragmatic to consider whether sources you listen to are knowledgeable and well-informed sources in legal situations like this. What state was this? ...wtf? It's a state where he got a ticket going double the speed limit. That's every damn state. Every damn state doesn't have the same laws, which is why the question is relevant, although I'll forgive your rude tone for misunderstanding. Some states like North Carolina have special abilities to get out of tickets every few years like prayer for judgment, although this doesn't matter here unless there is an Oregon equivalent.
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On April 16 2013 11:43 calgar wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2013 11:15 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On April 16 2013 07:21 calgar wrote:On April 16 2013 07:08 Zidane wrote:
Just pay the damn ticket. This is terrible advice; don't listen. I think its pragmatic to consider whether sources you listen to are knowledgeable and well-informed sources in legal situations like this. What state was this? ...wtf? It's a state where he got a ticket going double the speed limit. That's every damn state. Every damn state doesn't have the same laws, which is why the question is relevant, although I'll forgive your rude tone for misunderstanding. Some states like North Carolina have special abilities to get out of tickets every few years like prayer for judgment, although this doesn't matter here unless there is an Oregon equivalent.
The rest of my post explained the New Jersey equivalent of the North Carolina prayer for judgment plea. However, that's still a guilty plea and it's not you getting off completely free (assuming the judge agrees to the PfJ in the first place); you still have to pay at least court fines. It's just simply the case that you don't get points and the ticket doesn't go on your record... which is exactly what I was talking about when I mentioned the no points violation.
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On April 16 2013 11:54 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2013 11:43 calgar wrote:On April 16 2013 11:15 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On April 16 2013 07:21 calgar wrote:On April 16 2013 07:08 Zidane wrote:
Just pay the damn ticket. This is terrible advice; don't listen. I think its pragmatic to consider whether sources you listen to are knowledgeable and well-informed sources in legal situations like this. What state was this? ...wtf? It's a state where he got a ticket going double the speed limit. That's every damn state. Every damn state doesn't have the same laws, which is why the question is relevant, although I'll forgive your rude tone for misunderstanding. Some states like North Carolina have special abilities to get out of tickets every few years like prayer for judgment, although this doesn't matter here unless there is an Oregon equivalent. The rest of my post explained the New Jersey equivalent of the North Carolina prayer for judgment plea. However, that's still a guilty plea and it's not you getting off completely free (assuming the judge agrees to the PfJ in the first place); you still have to pay at least court fines. It's just simply the case that you don't get points and the ticket doesn't go on your record... which is exactly what I was talking about when I mentioned the no points violation.
Yeah I don't think I am going to get off scott free. Not gonna try, but it is good to know all my options. Really glad you posted DarkPlasmaBall. I was actually waiting for you to post. Another bit of advice I got today from a friend who said that they had kept it their tickets off their records and had the penalties reduced by talking to the judge and asking for community service. Gonna call the courthouse tmw, today when I tried they were at lunch. I don't know if there is a points system in Oregon or not but I am going to find out more about that by talking to someone at the courthouse. I suppose I could just look it up but I think I would rather be able to just ask someone the questions I need answers too
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On April 16 2013 12:49 Wrongspeedy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2013 11:54 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On April 16 2013 11:43 calgar wrote:On April 16 2013 11:15 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On April 16 2013 07:21 calgar wrote:On April 16 2013 07:08 Zidane wrote:
Just pay the damn ticket. This is terrible advice; don't listen. I think its pragmatic to consider whether sources you listen to are knowledgeable and well-informed sources in legal situations like this. What state was this? ...wtf? It's a state where he got a ticket going double the speed limit. That's every damn state. Every damn state doesn't have the same laws, which is why the question is relevant, although I'll forgive your rude tone for misunderstanding. Some states like North Carolina have special abilities to get out of tickets every few years like prayer for judgment, although this doesn't matter here unless there is an Oregon equivalent. The rest of my post explained the New Jersey equivalent of the North Carolina prayer for judgment plea. However, that's still a guilty plea and it's not you getting off completely free (assuming the judge agrees to the PfJ in the first place); you still have to pay at least court fines. It's just simply the case that you don't get points and the ticket doesn't go on your record... which is exactly what I was talking about when I mentioned the no points violation. Yeah I don't think I am going to get off scott free. Not gonna try, but it is good to know all my options. Really glad you posted DarkPlasmaBall. I was actually waiting for you to post. Another bit of advice I got today from a friend who said that they had kept it their tickets off their records and had the penalties reduced by talking to the judge and asking for community service. Gonna call the courthouse tmw, today when I tried they were at lunch. I don't know if there is a points system in Oregon or not but I am going to find out more about that by talking to someone at the courthouse. I suppose I could just look it up but I think I would rather be able to just ask someone the questions I need answers too
I think that's a good idea Figure out what options you have
Also, your TL ID is appropriate ^^
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Sounds from your description like it's an area with shitty regulations, but be that as it may, you were still driving 49 in a 20 area, which you shouldn't have done. It's always easy to go "Well, in this case the law is dumb", but the law is still the law. If you know it's a 20 area, you should drive in 20, no matter how dumb you feel it is.
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On April 16 2013 16:49 Tobberoth wrote:
Sounds from your description like it's an area with shitty regulations, but be that as it may, you were still driving 49 in a 20 area, which you shouldn't have done. It's always easy to go "Well, in this case the law is dumb", but the law is still the law. If you know it's a 20 area, you should drive in 20, no matter how dumb you feel it is.
It was 25. So I wasn't double, at least by 1 mph. Pretty much only saving grace.
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I'm surprised that no one has suggested this here yet but don't you have the option to go to traffic school in order to take points off?
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EPT
