• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 07:20
CEST 13:20
KST 20:20
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team TLMC #5 - Finalists & Open Tournaments0[ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt2: Turbulence10Classic Games #3: Rogue vs Serral at BlizzCon9[ASL20] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Ascent10Maestros of the Game: Week 1/Play-in Preview12
Community News
BSL 2025 Warsaw LAN + Legends Showmatch0Weekly Cups (Sept 8-14): herO & MaxPax split cups4WardiTV TL Team Map Contest #5 Tournaments1SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia8Weekly Cups (Sept 1-7): MaxPax rebounds & Clem saga continues29
StarCraft 2
General
#1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time Weekly Cups (Sept 8-14): herO & MaxPax split cups Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy SpeCial on The Tasteless Podcast Team TLMC #5 - Finalists & Open Tournaments
Tourneys
RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia WardiTV TL Team Map Contest #5 Tournaments
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 491 Night Drive Mutation # 490 Masters of Midnight Mutation # 489 Bannable Offense Mutation # 488 What Goes Around
Brood War
General
ASL20 General Discussion ASL TICKET LIVE help! :D Soulkey on ASL S20 BW General Discussion NaDa's Body
Tourneys
[ASL20] Ro16 Group D [ASL20] Ro16 Group C [Megathread] Daily Proleagues BSL 2025 Warsaw LAN + Legends Showmatch
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Muta micro map competition Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile Borderlands 3 General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread UK Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread High temperatures on bridge(s)
TL Community
BarCraft in Tokyo Japan for ASL Season5 Final The Automated Ban List
Blogs
I <=> 9
KrillinFromwales
The Personality of a Spender…
TrAiDoS
A very expensive lesson on ma…
Garnet
hello world
radishsoup
Lemme tell you a thing o…
JoinTheRain
RTS Design in Hypercoven
a11
Evil Gacha Games and the…
ffswowsucks
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1931 users

HOTS Strategy Spotlight #1 - Swarm Hosts

Blogs > SpacemanG
Post a Reply
SpacemanG
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
United States31 Posts
December 30 2012 23:22 GMT
#1
Hello fellow TLers,

Today I saw something interesting in a game of Heart of the Swarm, in a game casted by MrLlamaSC, RootCatz(Z) vs. TriBones(P).

In this game, we see Bones open one gate into expo, with two fast gases for sentries and a mothership core. He gets a fast +1 attack at a forward-placed forge, probably to fake a gateway push - Catz responds by building a couple spines, but Bones makes a stargate at around 7:30 and produces two oracles. Catz scouts the completed stargate and has plenty of queens to defend two oracle harass. These queens turn out to be a key part of the upcoming midgame for Catz - having 6+ queens allows him to spread his creep nearly across the map with ease at the 12:00 minute mark. From there, we have two pieces to the zerg midgame: lots of queens, and lots of creep spread. This gives us plenty of excess gas to dump into our tech part of choice, and here Catz builds an infestation pit and uses his excess gas for 7-8 swarm hosts and 8 or so infestors. The large creep spread allows him to place his swarm hosts in the middle of the map, protected from air threats by a large amount of queens:

[image loading]


And from there, the zerg has the ability to siege both the natural and third of the protoss from one location, while expanding towards the protoss:

[image loading]

From here, Catz can do a number of things to attack the protoss. By controlling the direction of the locusts, Catz can attack the protoss where the protoss player is not- if he goes to defend his third, the next locusts go to the natural, and vice versa. Also, if the protoss over commits to one location, the other can get hit with mass infested terrans at the same time, potentially taking out the base. The extra queens protect the swarm hosts from air threats, and the infestors great defensive powers can protect the siege camp in the middle of the map. Here swarm hosts are being used offensively, and queens and infestors are being used defensively.

Here is a great example, I believe, of how ZvP is changing- zerg now has a liar tech option of map control that is not the typical roach max - swarm hosts requiring the infestation pit gives zerg a lot of flexibility in the midgame that they previously did not have before. A consistent transition out of this composition has yet to be seen although I think most zerg players are still struggling to find their ideal late game compositions in Heart of the Swarm.

Leave me some feedback if you did/did not enjoy this blog!
-Spaceman

***
Vindicare605
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States16071 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-31 01:06:23
December 31 2012 01:04 GMT
#2
Howling Peak in general REALLY sucks for Protoss vs Zerg and you'll be hearing a lot more about that once HOTS goes live, assuming it goes live with the map pool on beta.

As per this strategy, there's a great post on the B.NET forums that discusses fundamental problems with the Swarm Host design http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/7350535414

To sum up. Swarm Hosts in small numbers cannot hope to achieve much in the way of creating the kind of pressure that's being demonstrated in the above game. The only way to really make a strategy like the one CatZ utilized possible is to create enough Swarm Hosts that the strategy eventually turns into an all in. If it fails to cause considerable economic damage to the Protoss, the Zerg is so heavily invested in the Swarm Host tech that teching to Hive or tech switching back into Hydralisks or Infestors is very difficult to do.

On the flip side, especially on this map it's a very difficult contain to break for the Protoss player once it is set up. On beta it's pretty common to see this build decimate newer Protoss players that are not used to seeing it, but is much less effective as Protoss players become more accustomed to it and how to better prepare for it.

So while Swarm Hosts are very effective weapons in larger numbers precisely because of strategies like this one, the fundamental design of the unit makes it very difficult to incorporate into non-all in strategies. If nothing about the unit design changes we're eventually going to see them used as a core unit of certain key all in builds, but as of now they do not really have much of a place in standard play.
aka: KTVindicare the Geeky Bartender
Artisian
Profile Joined October 2010
United States115 Posts
December 31 2012 01:17 GMT
#3
While I agree the above has potential, and I do think that a few well microed swarm hosts are more effective than people thing, but the above contain actually looks pretty soft to me. Is it too unreasonable to grab your deathball + mothership core, kill zergs third and natural by way of toss third -> zerg third while the swarm hosts are turning around, and then recall back and defend your third/nat + main.

ms core could easily go over and snipe the tumors along that attack path before this point, and a warp prism or stargate army could just go around the other side of the map and hit the natural/main rather than third/nat.
Supply is a conspiracy against me...
Sargonian
Profile Joined February 2012
United States164 Posts
January 04 2013 19:24 GMT
#4
I agree that the swarm host is not working yet but I hope it gets fixed in patches...I don't rly use it much atm because it tends to just get slaughtered by other units...whether roach hydra, bio ball, or even gateway armies (pony balls) and of course any air unit.

Artisian I'm wondering what you're getting at by saying their better well micro'd than people think. Are you talking about tactics in which way u send their way point like this thread shows or micro'ing the actual locusts?

I've certainly used them in a handful of team games with good success...but that's not saying much.
BaDMannerS
Profile Joined July 2012
Bulgaria57 Posts
January 12 2013 18:39 GMT
#5
Swarm host is imba beyond imagination and they must be stupid not to change that ceasless wave of huge range and high DPS. End of story.
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
January 12 2013 21:01 GMT
#6
On January 13 2013 03:39 BaDMannerS wrote:
Swarm host is imba beyond imagination and they must be stupid not to change that ceasless wave of huge range and high DPS. End of story.


uh lol? It's really easy to counter swarmhosts. Get 4+ colossi and with FF you will slaughter them.

If zerg is smart and going corruptor/swarmhost. You can go templar which is good vs them or you can go colossi/voidray/ground army which will crush it (voidrays are very powerful and CRUSH corruptors hardcore).

Instead of complaining about a non existant "imbalance" you should learn how to fight it.
When I think of something else, something will go here
_zesty
Profile Joined October 2010
43 Posts
March 06 2014 07:30 GMT
#7
just wanted to give props to SpacemanG for predicting the metagame when everyone was saying sh's are useless
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Map Test Tournament
11:00
$450 3v3 Open Cup
WardiTV79
LiquipediaDiscussion
RSL Revival
10:00
Season 2: Playoffs Day 5
Maru vs ReynorLIVE!
Cure vs TriGGeR
Tasteless940
Crank 659
IndyStarCraft 146
CranKy Ducklings107
3DClanTV 88
Rex87
IntoTheiNu 33
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Tasteless 940
Crank 659
IndyStarCraft 146
Rex 87
Lowko77
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 11576
Calm 7955
Bisu 1323
Horang2 964
Hyuk 567
actioN 327
Stork 309
ZerO 265
Pusan 206
Mini 205
[ Show more ]
EffOrt 179
Snow 163
Hyun 156
Last 152
Light 127
Soma 123
Liquid`Ret 78
Soulkey 73
sorry 67
ggaemo 62
Mind 50
ToSsGirL 48
hero 46
HiyA 33
Rush 31
Sharp 27
Free 27
scan(afreeca) 20
JYJ13
Terrorterran 13
Sea.KH 12
SilentControl 11
Sexy 11
sas.Sziky 9
Icarus 2
Dota 2
singsing2655
XcaliburYe160
Counter-Strike
olofmeister1692
shoxiejesuss599
x6flipin518
edward58
Other Games
B2W.Neo439
DeMusliM189
XaKoH 138
Pyrionflax105
NeuroSwarm46
Trikslyr5
Organizations
StarCraft: Brood War
Kim Chul Min (afreeca) 845
CasterMuse 15
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 4
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos1670
Other Games
• WagamamaTV189
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
1h 40m
RSL Revival
22h 40m
Zoun vs Classic
Korean StarCraft League
1d 15h
BSL Open LAN 2025 - War…
1d 20h
RSL Revival
1d 22h
BSL Open LAN 2025 - War…
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
Online Event
3 days
Wardi Open
3 days
Monday Night Weeklies
4 days
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
LiuLi Cup
6 days
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2025-09-10
Chzzk MurlocKing SC1 vs SC2 Cup #2
HCC Europe

Ongoing

BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Points
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
LASL Season 20
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1

Upcoming

2025 Chongqing Offline CUP
BSL World Championship of Poland 2025
IPSL Winter 2025-26
BSL Season 21
SC4ALL: Brood War
BSL 21 Team A
Stellar Fest
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
EC S1
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.