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Copy and pasted from my General thread of the same title as it was asked to be labeled as a blog, and that actually makes sense now that I think about it. Here we go:
This all stems from personal experience, so I don't know if it actually applies to other school districts or to anyone else, but it's always made me wonder why 'D's exist in the grading system. I'm going to use myself as an example below:
High School:
Freshmen year, I received 2 'A's, 2 'B's, 1 'C', and 1 'F', with a GPA of 2.66 for the first semester.
The grades remained the same aside from one 'B' becoming an 'A' and the 'F' eventually becoming a 'D'.
Year-round GPA: 2.83
For simplicity's sake I'll only include the first semester for the other years, as they maintain the same GPA year-round with one grade dropping and one grade rising.
Sophomore year, I received 2 'A's, 3 'B's, and 1 'D', with a GPA of 3.00.
Junior year, I received 5 'A's and 1 'B', with a GPA of 3.83.
Senior year, I received 4 'A's and 2 'B's, with a GPA of 3.66.
Overall GPA: 3.2875
Now, for the 'F' from freshmen year, I was given zero credit for taking the class, but I was able to completely make up for my grade over summer school, turning it into an 'A'.
For the 'D' in sophomore year, I attempted to do the same and try to make up for that grade, but I was told that this wasn't allowed because summer school was, at that point, reserved for people who actually failed their classes due to budget restrictions. I didn't think much of it afterwards since I still received the credit for taking the class, and I would still be able to graduate if I maintained an overall GPA of 2.00.
Fast forward to junior year and I've obviously improved myself as far as academics go, and in due time since I had heard that our performance for the last two years were what colleges paid attention to the most. I felt pretty good about myself since the highest college I planned on attending was the local state college, whose requirements were essentially the basics for graduating high school at all. During this year I transferred to another high school that was more highly regarded by reputation than the school I was enrolled in at the time, trying to make certain that I would be accepted by the state college.
Then came senior year, after the SAT's and the deciding final project, it was time to apply to every college possible. It was then that I noticed something was wrong: the college I was looking to didn't accept 'D's in student transcripts. For some reason, probably due to panic, I faked my grade and listed that 'D' as a 'C' and turned in my application. Lo and behold, I was given an acceptance e-mail some time afterwards, but I immediately felt guilty.
I decided to contact a counselor there and tell them of my situation of not being able to apply because of two 'D's on my transcript and my falsification leading to being accepted.
Here's the e-mail I sent:
"There's a problem.
Due to my Freshmen/Sophomore grades (D's) I actually falsified my transcript into displaying them as C's just to see if I could get in, and apparently I did.
I'd like it if my admission was reconsidered with this new information or if I could have the chance to explain my grades then (compared to now, I've maintained a 3.3 GPA) before the ITE deadline. I really do want to attend, which is why I just wanted to see if I could by doing something ridiculous like falsifying my grades. But I don't want this stunt to have taken the opportunity from another applicant, as I know space is limited.
So please, respond as soon as you can."
Here's the reply:
"I apologize for the delayed response. I have reviewed your transcript and have found that you are deficient in English and Visual and Performing Arts. Unless your final transcript shows that you have made up all of your deficiencies, you will be rescinded. Which means you will not be eligible for admission for Fall 2011. I recommend that you consider the community college..."
And so I asked:
"By deficiencies, you're referring to my D's? I've made up for the F in one semester for Art, but I was not allowed to stay for another semester to make up my D. I was also not allowed to make up my D in English Sophomore year. This was when I still attended [My High School] and Summer School classes were limited only to making up F's. Is there any way for me to compensate for those grades, such as Summer classes?"
Here's the answer:
"When we, college representatives, speak of deficiencies, we mean that you are short of or that you lack the requirement. All of the “a-g” courses need to be met with a “C” or better. All admission requirements must be met by graduation. Summer work is not allowed to meet admission requirements..."
And that was the end of that. I was technically an honor roll student with three letters of recommendations from my teachers, but apparently that was all overshadowed by the fact that I had 'D's. And those were during what I could honestly say were the hardest years of high school because of external issues and problems and adjusting through my anxieties, maintaining a 3.0 was not nearly as difficult or stressful.
My biggest issue is that if I had FAILED the two classes I had 'D's in, I would have actually been able to make up for those grades, and my transcript wouldn't have been permanently scarred. By that logic, students actually have incentive to give up putting any effort into classes they have a low 60-percentile grade in so they can receive an 'F' and attempt to make it up than trying and barely missing the 70th percent. One percent can dictate whether or not a student is an eligible candidate for enrolling into a state college immediately, as there is no option to clear it. There has to be something wrong with that.
Looking at the purpose of having 'D' as a grade, I still don't understand it. If a student receives a 'D', they receive full credit for the class, but they technically aren't passing. Well then, what's the point of having it? If a student had a full transcript of 'D's, they would have all of their credits, but they would be deemed unqualified for graduation, and chances are some sort of action was taken before it got to that point (i.e. being held back a grade). Is that the only option I had to clear my bad grades away? Grade retention?
This is where my lack of understanding becomes potential discussion:
tl;dr If a single grade of 'D' on an honor roll student's transcript (without any options to make up for it) can prevent them from applying to state colleges and universities, while failing a class can actually be seen as a temporary fluke, what is the purpose of having 'D's?
I actually have another question to branch off of that:
Wouldn't it make more sense to apply the 10% of the grade 'D' to the grade 'F', meaning that anything below 70% counts as failing, so that graduating students are guaranteed a chance of enrollment into state colleges?
 
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honestly the only thing i can say is that blows.
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I thought you were in college. While a letter doesn't mean much it sucks that I have to think less of myself because of my bad college grades. While it's stupid to not allow admissions for an individual who would otherwise qualify because of a D, it's also stupid to go to a college that's hard simply because it has a name or because it is hard.
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D is just a standard grade meaning below average. A is excellence, B above average, C average, D below average, F failing... sometimes there exist Es (between D and F, obviously), which are also flunking grades, but E is failing with effort (like a 40-50%) whereas the F would then be failing without any effort (like a 0-30%ish... like when you skip entire exams and do no work at all).
Now, often times a failing grade results in you being forced to retake the class, but I've personally never heard of that first attempt and grade (that F) being completely invisible from any transcripts and not ever considered by admissions. In other words, even if the grade gets replaced (or averaged) by another one, people should still be able to see your F, so that the F is still worse than the D. If that didn't happen in your situation, then I agree that it seems you got kind of screwed (although quite frankly, the fact that you're failing classes and falsifying your records may end up meaning that this is a sort of karma anyway).
But more directly: I don't think it's the norm to have Ds be worse than Fs, although in college many people will prefer to withdraw from a class that they realize they can't perform well in (and get no grade and no credit) rather than actually receive a failing/ poor grade on their transcript (just to keep their GPA up).
And so for nearly every case I've ever heard of, Fs are still known to be put on transcripts (as are Ds), so just (in the future) always try to get the best grade possible (unless you're aware of some special circumstances).
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whyy cause an unnesecary problem and inflict excess stress on your life?
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I'm pretty sure at my school you can re-take classes with a D, but I'm not sure  .
Also, even if you could be admitted after revealing your D's, I'm pretty sure they won't want to accept you on the premises of you lying on your transcript to see if you can get in. That shows that 1) you lie, and 2) you don't really care about getting into the college since you only wanted to see if you could get in with better grades.
idk, that's what I thought of.
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Isn't this pretty straight forward...?
D is an indication that you're an individual who puts the minimum effort into getting the credit. No one wants this type of individual.
If you were having difficulties, seek help or drop the course. I assume that high school in the US is similar to Canada where you have your hand held through your four years and are given numerous chances to get a good grade so you literally have to aim for a D to get a D.
How does it make sense to move the fail/pass cutoff? Universities impose cutoffs (minimum of C in your case) so they don't get bottom of the barrel students. If you move the fail/pass cutoff to a C, universities will move their requirement to a B.
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On October 16 2012 13:14 StateofReverie wrote:
whyy cause an unnesecary problem and inflict excess stress on your life?
I panicked. I was dead set on attending this college and I overlooked a huge detail without thinking twice. =/
On October 16 2012 12:56 obesechicken13 wrote:
I thought you were in college. While a letter doesn't mean much it sucks that I have to think less of myself because of my bad college grades. While it's stupid to not allow admissions for an individual who would otherwise qualify because of a D, it's also stupid to go to a college that's hard simply because it has a name or because it is hard.
The grades are from high school, and I wanted to go to the college for convenience: being able to stay at home while my parents retired and bike to class in less than an hour. Didn't, and still don't, have a major in mind. Ever since the actual rejection I've treated it like I treated my second high school (the one with the higher reputation, it had an actual application process). I was rejected my 8th, 9th, and 10th grade years because of my grades, but I was accepted by the 11th grade, the whole time believing I was "good enough". I guess it's just pride in the end.
On October 16 2012 13:05 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
D is just a standard grade meaning below average. A is excellence, B above average, C average, D below average, F failing... sometimes there exist Es (between D and F, obviously), which are also flunking grades, but E is failing with effort (like a 40-50%) whereas the F would then be failing without any effort (like a 0-30%ish... like when you skip entire exams and do no work at all).
Now, often times a failing grade results in you being forced to retake the class, but I've personally never heard of that first attempt and grade (that F) being completely invisible from any transcripts and not ever considered by admissions. In other words, even if the grade gets replaced (or averaged) by another one, people should still be able to see your F, so that the F is still worse than the D. If that didn't happen in your situation, then I agree that it seems you got kind of screwed (although quite frankly, the fact that you're failing classes and falsifying your records may end up meaning that this is a sort of karma anyway).
But more directly: I don't think it's the norm to have Ds be worse than Fs, although in college many people will prefer to withdraw from a class that they realize they can't perform well in (and get no grade and no credit) rather than actually receive a failing/ poor grade on their transcript (just to keep their GPA up).
And so for nearly every case I've ever heard of, Fs are still known to be put on transcripts (as are Ds), so just (in the future) always try to get the best grade possible (unless you're aware of some special circumstances).
On your point about F's still being visible, they are shown on transcripts along with any attempts to "fix" them. It wasn't brought up when the counselor looked over my transcript. Although, it could have been referenced when they spoke about my Art class, that's why I asked if they were referring exclusively to my D's as I had tried to "make up" that failure. I like to assume that the A from summer school helps alleviate the F from the first semester of freshmen year, but I suppose it doesn't really cut it as truly passing the particular class.
I apologize for getting into detail but I wasn't mentally apt for some of my classes in the first two years, they weren't simply filled to the brim with busywork that I could distract myself with in a house where family reunions are reasons to lock myself in my room. The classes I excelled in involved little to no participation or thought. Freshmen art was full of "Think of..." prompts that always led to my problems at home. As a result I couldn't really focus on anything in that class. Sophomore English was heavily emphasized on symbolism and involved literature and films that were meant to provoke heavy emotion and thought, I just didn't handle it well. I wasn't looking for a sob story, I just wanted to use myself as an example of a very specific flaw in the A-B-C-D-F grading system.
The issue here in general is about why D's are implemented in the first place. Graduating with D's is essentially graduating with failed classes because those classes aren't accepted by colleges (city colleges have little to no issues for requirements). Why can students get the go-ahead with that dragging on their tails? There are always external issues that can affect school performance regardless of how much effort they put into their work. If they couldn't quite cut it once, they just never get another swing. Summer school, post-economic distress, is the epitome of second chances among students and yet students with D's are of lower priority or simply aren't allowed.
I'm really reaching for straws here, aren't I?
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On October 16 2012 13:39 LeafMeAlone wrote:I'm pretty sure at my school you can re-take classes with a D, but I'm not sure . Also, even if you could be admitted after revealing your D's, I'm pretty sure they won't want to accept you on the premises of you lying on your transcript to see if you can get in. That shows that 1) you lie, and 2) you don't really care about getting into the college since you only wanted to see if you could get in with better grades. idk, that's what I thought of.
Yeah, I immediately regretted applying at all since it could only hurt my reputation.
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Russian Federation3632 Posts
yeah, I'm pretty sure any communication that contains the words "I actually falsified my transcript" torpedoes your chances of retaining your admission anywhere
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On October 16 2012 14:19 skyR wrote:
Isn't this pretty straight forward...?
D is an indication that you're an individual who puts the minimum effort into getting the credit. No one wants this type of individual.
If you were having difficulties, seek help or drop the course. I assume that high school in the US is similar to Canada where you have your hand held through your four years and are given numerous chances to get a good grade so you literally have to aim for a D to get a D.
How does it make sense to move the fail/pass cutoff? Universities impose cutoffs (minimum of C in your case) so they don't get bottom of the barrel students. If you move the fail/pass cutoff to a C, universities will move their requirement to a B.
No college in Canada cares about Freshman and Sophomore grades, not only that but individual course grades don't matter either, it's the average (of the relevant courses) that counts. Also, a USA D mark is 60%-70% i believe unlike here.
It's definitely not fair if what OP is saying is true.
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On October 16 2012 14:19 skyR wrote:
Isn't this pretty straight forward...?
D is an indication that you're an individual who puts the minimum effort into getting the credit. No one wants this type of individual.
If you were having difficulties, seek help or drop the course. I assume that high school in the US is similar to Canada where you have your hand held through your four years and are given numerous chances to get a good grade so you literally have to aim for a D to get a D.
How does it make sense to move the fail/pass cutoff? Universities impose cutoffs (minimum of C in your case) so they don't get bottom of the barrel students. If you move the fail/pass cutoff to a C, universities will move their requirement to a B.
D can also be an indication of teacher bias, teacher inefficiency, there are just other factors that can play into a one-time grade no matter what impact. I'm not saying that's what happened in my case, but sometimes it can be. And that's generalizing students through standardization, we all have our academic weaknesses and strengths that simply can't be accounted for aside from attempting to apply them to races. If I had a D in Freshmen year and proceeded to get 4.0's for every following year, am I really that kind of individual? Not according to my grades, but what is according to my grades is that I once was qualified as that type of person, and that's how I should be recorded through my progress in education. Not the progress itself of me improving, but the progress as a giant D making its way about the curriculum. That's what a D indicates.
The difficulties I was having weren't related to what was on a teacher's day-to-day planner of what was to be taught and what was expected to be remembered. I did seek help for my personal problems from counselors, there's a general consensus that everyone eventually experiences depression of varying degree. Coming home to a family of innate hatred for one another wasn't simply an option. The school I attended first had a terrible reputation as the most violent high school in the city and the poorest performance-wise, it was hard to say whether or not the teachers were as motivated or dedicated as teachers from elsewhere (not that I have anything against any teacher there).
The point is that the bare minimum for receiving credit would actually be somewhat credible as achieving the requirements for graduating instead of rewarding the type of people you mentioned earlier. Universities generally already have a requirement of B's (3.0 GPA), except that it isn't nitpicking at a lone C. The higher GPA requirement doesn't really mean anything since grades have become so inflated overall in student applications (to universities) that every graduate and their dog is eligible for consideration (excluding myself).
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On October 16 2012 14:57 419 wrote:
yeah, I'm pretty sure any communication that contains the words "I actually falsified my transcript" torpedoes your chances of retaining your admission anywhere
That's my loss then. =)
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What kind of joke college is this? Transcripts have to be certified and sent directly from your high school, you don't get to tell the college what your grades are...
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On October 16 2012 15:29 L3gendary wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2012 14:19 skyR wrote:
Isn't this pretty straight forward...?
D is an indication that you're an individual who puts the minimum effort into getting the credit. No one wants this type of individual.
If you were having difficulties, seek help or drop the course. I assume that high school in the US is similar to Canada where you have your hand held through your four years and are given numerous chances to get a good grade so you literally have to aim for a D to get a D.
How does it make sense to move the fail/pass cutoff? Universities impose cutoffs (minimum of C in your case) so they don't get bottom of the barrel students. If you move the fail/pass cutoff to a C, universities will move their requirement to a B. No college in Canada cares about Freshman and Sophomore grades, not only that but individual course grades don't matter either, it's the average (of the relevant courses) that counts. Also, a USA D mark is 60%-70% i believe unlike here. It's definitely not fair if what OP is saying is true.
Yes it's true that freshman and sophomore grades are not relevant in Canada but individual grades do matter. Several programs at Waterloo requires a minimum of 75%, several programs at Toronto / Ryerson / York requires 70%.
On October 16 2012 15:33 ArmyOfPlatypi wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On October 16 2012 14:19 skyR wrote:
Isn't this pretty straight forward...?
D is an indication that you're an individual who puts the minimum effort into getting the credit. No one wants this type of individual.
If you were having difficulties, seek help or drop the course. I assume that high school in the US is similar to Canada where you have your hand held through your four years and are given numerous chances to get a good grade so you literally have to aim for a D to get a D.
How does it make sense to move the fail/pass cutoff? Universities impose cutoffs (minimum of C in your case) so they don't get bottom of the barrel students. If you move the fail/pass cutoff to a C, universities will move their requirement to a B. D can also be an indication of teacher bias, teacher inefficiency, there are just other factors that can play into a one-time grade no matter what impact. I'm not saying that's what happened in my case, but sometimes it can be. And that's generalizing students through standardization, we all have our academic weaknesses and strengths that simply can't be accounted for aside from attempting to apply them to races. If I had a D in Freshmen year and proceeded to get 4.0's for every following year, am I really that kind of individual? Not according to my grades, but what is according to my grades is that I once was qualified as that type of person, and that's how I should be recorded through my progress in education. Not the progress itself of me improving, but the progress as a giant D making its way about the curriculum. That's what a D indicates. The difficulties I was having weren't related to what was on a teacher's day-to-day planner of what was to be taught and what was expected to be remembered. I did seek help for my personal problems from counselors, there's a general consensus that everyone eventually experiences depression of varying degree. Coming home to a family of innate hatred for one another wasn't simply an option. The school I attended first had a terrible reputation as the most violent high school in the city and the poorest performance-wise, it was hard to say whether or not the teachers were as motivated or dedicated as teachers from elsewhere (not that I have anything against any teacher there). The point is that the bare minimum for receiving credit would actually be somewhat credible as achieving the requirements for graduating instead of rewarding the type of people you mentioned earlier. Universities generally already have a requirement of B's (3.0 GPA), except that it isn't nitpicking at a lone C. The higher GPA requirement doesn't really mean anything since grades have become so inflated overall in student applications (to universities) that every graduate and their dog is eligible for consideration (excluding myself).
No... If you think the teacher is bias, petition against your grade. If you think the teacher sucks than drop the course or teach yourself.
Moving the bare minimum up does not make the credit more credible. If a university wants to nitpick at a lone grade than it will do so.
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You really should learn to write better, because it's hard to understand what you're saying. It's possibly because you don't know what you're talking about, or because you can't write papers.
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On October 16 2012 14:37 ArmyOfPlatypi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2012 13:05 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
D is just a standard grade meaning below average. A is excellence, B above average, C average, D below average, F failing... sometimes there exist Es (between D and F, obviously), which are also flunking grades, but E is failing with effort (like a 40-50%) whereas the F would then be failing without any effort (like a 0-30%ish... like when you skip entire exams and do no work at all).
Now, often times a failing grade results in you being forced to retake the class, but I've personally never heard of that first attempt and grade (that F) being completely invisible from any transcripts and not ever considered by admissions. In other words, even if the grade gets replaced (or averaged) by another one, people should still be able to see your F, so that the F is still worse than the D. If that didn't happen in your situation, then I agree that it seems you got kind of screwed (although quite frankly, the fact that you're failing classes and falsifying your records may end up meaning that this is a sort of karma anyway).
But more directly: I don't think it's the norm to have Ds be worse than Fs, although in college many people will prefer to withdraw from a class that they realize they can't perform well in (and get no grade and no credit) rather than actually receive a failing/ poor grade on their transcript (just to keep their GPA up).
And so for nearly every case I've ever heard of, Fs are still known to be put on transcripts (as are Ds), so just (in the future) always try to get the best grade possible (unless you're aware of some special circumstances). On your point about F's still being visible, they are shown on transcripts along with any attempts to "fix" them. It wasn't brought up when the counselor looked over my transcript. Although, it could have been referenced when they spoke about my Art class, that's why I asked if they were referring exclusively to my D's as I had tried to "make up" that failure. I like to assume that the A from summer school helps alleviate the F from the first semester of freshmen year, but I suppose it doesn't really cut it as truly passing the particular class. I apologize for getting into detail but I wasn't mentally apt for some of my classes in the first two years, they weren't simply filled to the brim with busywork that I could distract myself with in a house where family reunions are reasons to lock myself in my room. The classes I excelled in involved little to no participation or thought. Freshmen art was full of "Think of..." prompts that always led to my problems at home. As a result I couldn't really focus on anything in that class. Sophomore English was heavily emphasized on symbolism and involved literature and films that were meant to provoke heavy emotion and thought, I just didn't handle it well. I wasn't looking for a sob story, I just wanted to use myself as an example of a very specific flaw in the A-B-C-D-F grading system. The issue here in general is about why D's are implemented in the first place. Graduating with D's is essentially graduating with failed classes because those classes aren't accepted by colleges (city colleges have little to no issues for requirements). Why can students get the go-ahead with that dragging on their tails? There are always external issues that can affect school performance regardless of how much effort they put into their work. If they couldn't quite cut it once, they just never get another swing. Summer school, post-economic distress, is the epitome of second chances among students and yet students with D's are of lower priority or simply aren't allowed. I'm really reaching for straws here, aren't I?
Haha well two points, I think:
1. Admissions is going to have their own reasons for assessing each and every grade of yours. If they see you bring an F up to an A, maybe they figure you properly conquered that course and it's not truly a problem (rather than bring the F up to only a D or C). Often times, showing intellectual growth and progress is just as important as a good grade (although usually you have to show the former elsewhere, like in your college essays).
2. As I mentioned with my original breakdown of what the definitions of A-F grades are, Ds are just "below average" grades. They're not as bad as failing the course, and, quite frankly, I think it makes sense to have a grade that shows you passed but not at expectation level. Not everyone can perform above average every time (especially if you get a class scored on a relative scale!).
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lolol wow I see what you mean. idk man that sucks though
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go to school in Canada they accept everyone lol.
EDIT* Other than falsifying your grades, you seem like a smart enough guy. I'm sure if you met with admissions in person (way more personal than email) they would help you figure out a way to get in.
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Wait, you use the A B C D F system in college as well o.o
Im pretty sure most countries have 100 point system atm :/ Or is it just a way to refer to "around 100", "around 80"... etc
Also, why isn't there an "E" ?
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EPT
