I thought long about a cool beginning to my blog, but i didnt find one, so I am just going to cut straight to it. TSL4 is boring. It's basically a "well... it happened" tournament. In my eyes TSL4 has already failed half way through and this makes me angry. No, it actually makes me furious.
>But Wisert, why does a supposedly failed tournament make you angry?<
Well, let me tell you something.... MLG went to shit with it's 20 MLG Arenas per month. I stopped watching it (not because of the pay-to-view, there were enough restreams) because it got boring. There are just too many tournaments, and although their quality went up, the amount of tournaments has made it very tiring to follow them.
>But what are you trying to tell us<
The Point is, if a tournament wants to stand out in this huge pile of "oh....again", they need something that people remember. A Story, really good games and well recepted caster-combos.
TSL4 now, in my opinion, is not working to its full potential. TSL3 in that regard was much better, what means, much more hyped.
I'll admit, TSL3 had it easier. It was tournament during a time, when the only things running during the whole TSL3 schedule were weekly cups. Now, the "market is oversaturated" and no one cares about the biggest Online Tournament on the scene. And that is sad.
>But they are doing Previews and Recaps, is that not enough for you?<
No its not. I have a problem with the way TL seems to just keep on rolling the TSL4 forward. It's a tournament, they can't stop, right? The general sentiment i got from talking to a lot of people, is that "TSL4 is good, but i haven't watched the last games". Question: Can you name the people who lost in the ro8 and ro16? I can, but only because i checked to not write any bullshit. Further I know a lot of people, who regularly follow the scene and don't know. Why is that so? Missing Story. And by Story I dont mean Idar Rage and stupid reddit drama. I mean legitimate Stories.
During TSL3, a lot of people were still new to the scene. The old BW-stars would meet the boys coming from WC3. Who knew about Thorzain before TSL? No one. But due to TSL3 having huge exposure, everyone got to see him win that shit. TSL4 has it much harder, but ti's not impossible. ...Back to my "Story" point. Story can be something so simple like a good player introduction. TSL4 misses to introduce the players completely. It's basicly Korean #385 vs Korean #176. Oh and there is him: We basicly dont know anyone of them. I'd like to focus on the Koreans. Many people might say:" Well I know Sting, he was on NSHoseo and played in the GSTL. Was in a Team with Jjakji and other strong NSH-Terrans." Is that enough Info to make you eager to see him play? In my opinion not. It needs more. Maybe you can: elaborate his style in a post, find his strenghts, make a video-interview so we see his actual face, not a drawing (the drawings are cool, style is nice, but the faces are not rememberable and that is what's important). Bring up points so people remeber him as the person who did this and that. Beat X and Y to get here in these games. Show us his highlights. Make him interesting. A lot of people adress the "irrelevance" to the early elimination of the foreigner big-names like Thorzain and Naniwa. I dont think so. If the big names lose early its the perfect beginning to turn the up and coming guys into Stars, even if it's just for this tournament.
Furthermore, I am missing advertisement on TL for their own tournament. The Previews and Recaps are all nice, but they are the same as the ones for WCS, IEM and so on. Once you make the players interesting and bring the news about TSL4, your own torunament, to the center of attention, be it by Ads or the TL banner changing. Do whatever is needed so people see "Ah, TSL4 is on, Great!".
I think im done for tonight, maybe I'll add more on a part 2 tomorrow or later.
Discuss it, whatever, if you think i missed something crucial PM me. Oh and Wisert is me btw. Edit1: Typos Edit2: Catering to the Masses (credit: intrigue)
I've enjoyed the TSL4 mostly, but haven't been following it really closely, but I don't follow any tournaments ridiculously closely.
I honestly can only understand about 50% of what you wrote here, so I'm going to assume English isn't your first language. What is an "autist?" Is that someone with autism?
A confusing, sometimes overly aggressive and antagonizing criticism of TSL4.
I hardly claim for TSL4 to be perfect, actually I don't really watch it, but I'm certain there's a way to get your point across without talk of autist babbies and the like.
thing about TSL4 is the really shitty production value
TSL3 felt a lot better.
The casters need better microphones, there needs to be better music, better transitions, more hype. Only casters who aren't useless are DjWheat and Apollo, but the former knows nothing about the game and the latter is being paired with the wrong person to do well.
On August 20 2012 08:53 MahE wrote: thing about TSL4 is the really shitty production value
TSL3 felt a lot better.
The casters need better microphones, there needs to be better music, better transitions, more hype. Only casters who aren't useless are DjWheat and Apollo, but the former knows nothing about the game and the latter is being paired with the wrong person to do well.
get out of the thread mahe
I agree mostly but you should tone down on the agressiveness if you want to be taken more seriously, I agree that MLG really lost its status as one of the best tournaments when it kept creating these sub par arenas as cash grabs, I cant really watch anything but the GSL with the over saturation of tournaments these days.
On August 20 2012 08:53 MahE wrote: thing about TSL4 is the really shitty production value
TSL3 felt a lot better.
The casters need better microphones, there needs to be better music, better transitions, more hype. Only casters who aren't useless are DjWheat and Apollo, but the former knows nothing about the game and the latter is being paired with the wrong person to do well.
great blog but you should tone down on the agressiveness if you want to be taken seriously
On August 20 2012 08:53 MahE wrote: thing about TSL4 is the really shitty production value
TSL3 felt a lot better.
The casters need better microphones, there needs to be better music, better transitions, more hype. Only casters who aren't useless are DjWheat and Apollo, but the former knows nothing about the game and the latter is being paired with the wrong person to do well.
get out of the thread mahe
great blog but you should tone down on the agressiveness if you want to be taken seriously
On August 20 2012 08:53 MahE wrote: thing about TSL4 is the really shitty production value
TSL3 felt a lot better.
The casters need better microphones, there needs to be better music, better transitions, more hype. Only casters who aren't useless are DjWheat and Apollo, but the former knows nothing about the game and the latter is being paired with the wrong person to do well.
get out of the thread mahe
great blog but you should tone down on the agressiveness if you want to be taken seriously
There's just something about TSL this time that isn't special. Not sure what it is, but probably just the amount of tournaments being thrown at our faces.
Not really. Calling people autistic was all the rage during the summer. I assumed this was just a feeble attempt at elevating an average critique to super cool flamebaiting by being as offensive as possible.
OP's post is overly aggressive, but I agree with the underlying sentiment. The previous TSLs have been much, much better, specially TSL3 which was absolutely amazing. Sure, it was a lot easier, as it was really the only tournament with koreans & foreigners together, but the amount of effort in marketing was much higher. It was all about getting to know the players, so even when Fruitdealer and co. were knocked out, we still had people to root for.
I have no idea why they scrapped the qualification- interviews. That's what really made TSL3 special in my eyes, not the famous players or quality of games even.(Though Naniwa v Thorzain is one the most memorable series to date).
Another thing, the amount of tournaments is overwhelming at this point, so I don't really like the fact that RO32 was BO5 and RO8 was BO7. I would have let it go as BO3 until RO8, where it would be BO5 and then BO7 in the finals. TSL4 is set up in a way that allows players a week to plan for their matches, but planning for a BO7 is much harder than a BO5 which means you get a lot more "I will just play my standard macro game" sort of games. I understand more games means the better player advances most of the time, but it makes it less exciting I think. Smaller series would give the unknown players an advantage, as they could analyse the famous people to bits and exploit their weaknesses without them having time to adapt as easily.
There's been a ton of delays and technical problems that haven't helped either of course, but I can sort of forgive those. The biggest problem is still the lack of marketing on TL's part, which is where it gets a bit weird for me. TL can't exactly plaster it's entire website with TSL4 content while neglecting other tournaments/news, if it wishes to stay impartial and not piss the other organizations off. Maybe they decided to stay low key this time around to maintain their objectivity?
I dont see wtf people are complaining about, it's TSL it's for the community mostly not to make money and it's done an awesome job <3 the intro and player drawings. I love how they got the big named casters and I love teamliquid so I don't see why people need to hate on it or say its a poor production, I remember back when there were 500 viewers for like tl.attack and now TSL has 21000 last time I looked at the stream, seems to be doing pretty good, just sit back and enjoy seeing how ur viewing it free.
OP's post is a bit too aggressive, I would say. Especially the part when he basically says "come at me bro" to all the "TL drones" out here. I would advise you to tone down the aggression if you want to convince people that you are right or that your point is accurate. It's alright to be pissed, but when you share that with the people whose opinions you are trying to sway, they get pissed off too and become defensive of their views, if not aggressive themselves. It's basically the same obstinancy you got when you were a kid in an argument, except we, as adults, often disguise it by using reasoning to justify our position. Of course, that doesn't really make that obstinancy any less potent a force in debates.
The OP's one of those entitled whiners that expect to just be given amazing quality tourneys for free. Far too negative and aggressive to be taken seriously.
The one thing I'd agree on is that TSL4 somehow lacks the magic of previous TSL's. I'm not sure whether it's oversaturation, too many koreans, a lack of big names etc. It's also hard to get invested in the players/story-lines without recommended sets/games. With the amount of content out there it's hard to find the time to sit down and go through multiple Bo5's between little known players.
4/5 stars for some unnecessary bitching and complaints about the TL Documentary. But I'll say that while I bought TSL+ and have been tuning in, the hype isn't there. I've been pulling out my pokemon sapphire to play while it's on in the backround. I don't know what else they could've done, but there it is. I mostly agree with you.
Personally if the best players winning isn't interesting enough a story line for you I don't think you should be watching pro starcraft. Yes it's a "sport," but it is not meant for entertainment. Pro Starcraft two should be about competition. If the underdogs make comeback wins and run you can follow like Thorzain vs MC and stuff, great. But should we rig our tournaments to make them more "exciting?" Of course not. "Korean#385 vs Korean #176" is really a bad way to look at it. Just because they aren't white or on a foreign team doesn't mean they are uninteresting. Or at least it shouldn't. I try to look at the game as pure representations of skill in Stacraft. So to me, a Life/Creator final is more interesting that Naniwa/Thorzain because the play is just on such a higher level.
I suggest you follow the highest level play instead of just emotionally connecting with certain foreigners and then whining when they aren't placing highly in the leagues you're emotionally attached to.
I loved TSL3, I even loved watching the qualifiers for TSL4, but I haven't watched much of the actual TSL4 so I get were you coming from OP. The oversaturation with tournaments is definitely they major reason for this, but in my opinion TSL3 also had one big advantage, great story lines. Naniwa and Thorzain making it to the finals, HasuObs playing great, GoOdy beating NesTea and many more. The point is, I still remember all those things, but don't even know 100% sure right now who is still left in TSL4.
On August 20 2012 14:01 Luepert wrote: Personally if the best players winning isn't interesting enough a story line for you I don't think you should be watching pro starcraft. Yes it's a "sport," but it is not meant for entertainment. Pro Starcraft two should be about competition. If the underdogs make comeback wins and run you can follow like Thorzain vs MC and stuff, great. But should we rig our tournaments to make them more "exciting?" Of course not. "Korean#385 vs Korean #176" is really a bad way to look at it. Just because they aren't white or on a foreign team doesn't mean they are uninteresting. Or at least it shouldn't. I try to look at the game as pure representations of skill in Stacraft. So to me, a Life/Creator final is more interesting that Naniwa/Thorzain because the play is just on such a higher level.
I suggest you follow the highest level play instead of just emotionally connecting with certain foreigners and then whining when they aren't placing highly in the leagues you're emotionally attached to.
Just read your post and even though there are definitely people like you that only care for the best players, this isn't the fact for all fans. Just ask yourself why a lot of the foreigners are so popular, many of which being worse than even the mid level koreans. People want to get personally involved with the players and cheer for them, because having a favourite adds just so much excitment. I'm not saying you can't be a fan of a Korean player by the way, I'm cheering for quite a few and some up and coming, not to well known talent is actually good for a tournament. The sheer amount of very strong but not very well known Koreans is what is hurting TSL4 a bit in my opinion. Also I don't think your right about Sc2 not beeing meant for entertainment. In fact every professional sport is part of the entertainment business. Showing the best games/players helps of course (e.g. the NBA), but having players/superstars with a lot of personality also is a major factor (also e.g. the NBA).
edit #2: For my loss I somehow missed my 1111th post 8[
Reason TSL 4 has not achieved it's heights imo is because they had a ranking point system to get into TSL for 29 players, I mean without inviting the players with the big names it does not become a popular tournament.
I mean, NesTea & MVP did not even attempt to qualify (NesTea was on TSL Korean qualifier 1 i beleive that's it) biggest korean names who tried to qualify, qualified. Taeja/Creator/Curious/Squirtle, and they are not that hugely followed, and they went out relatively quickly. Likes of MarineKing tried to qualify 2-3 times but it was at the start of the latest patch when most korean Terrans where having a terrible time vs Zergs and MKP was going out to most of the Zergs every time.
I think they just should of stuck to TSL 3 plan and invited 24 players and did less qualifier tournaments for the other 8 or even just invite 32 players!
It's very sad as i think the prize money for this tournament is actually huge considering it's a straight 32 man tournament single elimination. $15,000 for first place is a great prize, but it's going to go to a medicore Korean player in Keen/Creator which i guess i should'nt put down to much as they are going to win a tournament which is no easy feat (creator also not losing a game so far)
I don't think it's not very big because of there is "so many other tournaments" i mean they did that well, they knocked it back a day if IEM was going to clash etc or when IPL was clashing so it was run properly that way, but i just think it was the player personalities that qualified which cost TSL the viewers it deserves really with the prize money it has. Sad times
On August 20 2012 14:01 Luepert wrote: I suggest you follow the highest level play instead of just emotionally connecting with certain foreigners and then whining when they aren't placing highly in the leagues you're emotionally attached to.
I am not emotionally attached to any foreigners at all. To be honest, the only tournament i actually follow very closely, is the GSL. I also dont know where you found me saying "no foreigners, no interest". If you ask me, the best player should always win and the best players also give the most interesting games. I am just saying that the foreign community in total, does not know all the non-GSL Koreans, just like the for the Koreans an IEM turns quickly into a Whitey#124 vs MVP. TSL4 is catering to the foreign (NA and EU) scene mainly, so they should introduce the players correctly, so we see faces instead of just korean clantags.
1. There are too many good quality tournaments - I dont even ... 2. Koreans winning - Maybe Teamliquid should handycap them from winning, so we have more foreigner storylines , yeah let them play at 70% health...
On August 20 2012 20:54 Kleinmuuhg wrote: 1. There are too many good quality tournaments - I dont even ... 2. Koreans winning - Maybe Teamliquid should handycap them from winning, so we have more foreigner storylines , yeah let them play at 70% health...
I can't even express how much I hope that you are joking with your second point.
On topic: Sadly enough there are too many people that judge player by their character istead of their merit. I rather watch a game on the highest level possible, than watching two foreigner on a "lower" level.
On August 20 2012 20:54 Kleinmuuhg wrote: 1. There are too many good quality tournaments - I dont even ... 2. Koreans winning - Maybe Teamliquid should handycap them from winning, so we have more foreigner storylines , yeah let them play at 70% health...
I can't even express how much I hope that you are joking with your second point.
No I'm serious. I also think they shouldnt have Korean qualifiers but only invite some Code A players so the North American players have a chance.
On August 20 2012 18:11 Pandemona wrote: It's very sad as i think the prize money for this tournament is actually huge considering it's a straight 32 man tournament single elimination. $15,000 for first place is a great prize, but it's going to go to a medicore Korean player in Keen/Creator which i guess i should'nt put down to much as they are going to win a tournament which is no easy feat (creator also not losing a game so far)
)
Creator is everything else than mediocre. Easily one of the best protoss around.
On August 20 2012 08:53 MahE wrote: thing about TSL4 is the really shitty production value
TSL3 felt a lot better.
The casters need better microphones, there needs to be better music, better transitions, more hype. Only casters who aren't useless are DjWheat and Apollo, but the former knows nothing about the game and the latter is being paired with the wrong person to do well.
get out of the thread mahe
I agree mostly but you should tone down on the agressiveness if you want to be taken more seriously, I agree that MLG really lost its status as one of the best tournaments when it kept creating these sub par arenas as cash grabs, I cant really watch anything but the GSL with the over saturation of tournaments these days.
Funny coming from you mewbert, seeing how adam flamed incontrol and then got told hard.
MLG is like every 1-2 months, has 3 streams going at the same time, means on a day you have 100games played. How is there any time to build up tension or a storyline? There isn't. Everything gets boring really fast. I only care about the semi's and the final anymore. And that's only the real MLG not those uninteresting arenas.
Maybe I'm not enough of a hardcore fan anymore, but I suddenly realised I don't even know which korean terran won IEM yesterday, just because it's not interesting to me.
But perhaps I'm just the only one feeling like this and it's good that there are GSL/MLG/IGN/NASL/IEM/WCS/Invitationals/Dailies/Showmatches going on all day, everyday.
But this results in me not caring for TSL4 at all.
On August 21 2012 00:35 JimSocks wrote: I think problem is big names dont want to qualify anymore. They think they deserve the invites.
I'd say rather that it is usually too hard to qualify, since there are so many players without big names yet still at the grand master level that participate in the TSL qualifiers, which is exactly what I believe TL wants.
People have rose tinted glasses, or more specifically, the lens in which they view things is warped. TSL3 was universally great from the TL perspective because people were entertained by the "wow factor" of foreigners vs koreans, storylines or "interesting finals".
In reality, none of it should be as important as tournament integrity and prestige - where the tournament organisers put out a tournament, gives the players excellent conditions and asks them to perform. If it leads to amazing games, that is great, but the chase for "amazing games" should not come at the expense of the tournament integrity.
After TSL3, I saw a host of ridiculous arguments where some people claimed that the TSL3 format led to interesting games rather than the "luck of the draw". The same people were calling out the GSL saying it led to boring finals when in reality the formats at the time were quite identical.
Imagine the 2011 Blizzard Cup final had ended in a 4-0 victory to MMA in the finals - people would criticise the tournament; Instead, the 4-3 result (w.ith an amazing game 7) led to many people cheering. In reality, the only difference in the 2 scenarios is luck.
In my opinion, TSL4 is a superior tournament to TSL3 because it has a more extensive qualifers (much less invites). It also has a good mixture of regions (e.g. koreans vs foreigners). I remember even reading a blog post where someone suggested that the brackets should be "fixed" so that "more interesting games" will occur. I lol'ed at that blog post.
Thus, many foreign fans like gimmicky things in tournaments - flashy production, amazing storylines, etc, but in reality, what should be number 1 importance is the integrity and strength of the tournament. TSL4 being a online tournament means that it's prestige suffers - it's a good tournament, but not as good as others.
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ZOHBa.jpg)
which i guess i should'nt put down to much as they are going to win a tournament which is no easy feat (creator also not losing a game so far) 
