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On August 22 2012 08:12 Griffith` wrote:
Amazing read!
My own opinion:
Shitty AI, less cluttering, makes Tanks better
Why? Shitty AI essentially creates a funnel effect, and allows tanks to get off more than 1 shot.
Let x be a zealot, and T be tanks
Case 1)
xxxxxx---------->TTTTT (Spread over 1 seconds)
versus
Case 2)
x--x--x--x--x--x>TTTTT (Spread over 10 seconds)
Tanks will most likely do better in case 2 due to increased concentrated firepower.
As someone who plays a lot of roguelikes, your diagram looks to me like a bunch of grid bugs about to attack a formation of trolls 
Great article, OP -- very well organized and your main points were argued without any vitriol. Love it!
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On August 22 2012 08:12 Griffith` wrote:
Amazing read!
My own opinion:
Shitty AI, less cluttering, makes Tanks better
Why? Shitty AI essentially creates a funnel effect, and allows tanks to get off more than 1 shot.
Let x be a zealot, and T be tanks
Case 1)
xxxxxx---------->TTTTT (Spread over 1 seconds)
versus
Case 2)
x--x--x--x--x--x>TTTTT (Spread over 10 seconds)
Tanks will most likely do better in case 2 due to increased concentrated firepower.
Ah...no. The spread out zealots take less splash. The first zealot isn't impeded by any in front so it goes full speed and reaches the tanks at the same time as in case 1. This is why tanks had to be NERFED with the new AI.
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This Cheerio guy doesn't seem to have understood much of the point of this article.
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I mostly agree with what i read here (not the entire post, i'm sorry).
I had some kind of unsettling feeling after the battle report. I felt like i saw no mech at all, despite all the factory units. That may be because of scripting, but a little dissatisfactory nonetheless. I think it also has to do with the issues you mentioned.
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I never played BW very seriously so the concept of "BW mech" was a bit foreign to me but after reading this and seeing what it was all about I am so jealous I missed out! It's so different, slow moving yet mindful in it's approach to a game that feels speed oriented. Wish we could see something of this in HOTS!
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Then zerg comes with roaches and gg
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I like the tank part. They're too slow to reposition effectively and they're too weak to hold ground competently. Makes me really sad.
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A brilliant post but let's be honest there's nothing we can do about it. Even if you posted this in the battle.net forums and every single person who plays starcraft gave it a thumbs up nothing would ever happen.
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Australia1312 Posts
There's also one other point in mech play I'd like to throw in my 2 cents.
Map Design. I think that the map design greatly affects the viability of tanks. The issue of SC2 is the massive open space, there's not enough mini walls, cliffs, bridges and ridges for tanks to (ab)use. BW had significant discussions on different maps about how to place tanks to prevent runby's to your third, defend your natural, attack routes and containing.
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On August 27 2012 03:17 Culioz wrote:
I never played BW very seriously so the concept of "BW mech" was a bit foreign to me but after reading this and seeing what it was all about I am so jealous I missed out! It's so different, slow moving yet mindful in it's approach to a game that feels speed oriented. Wish we could see something of this in HOTS!
It was a thing of beauty to see mech play in BW.
There's a reason why Fantasy became my favorite player. :D
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Oh man, this discussion is so high lvl. Are you seriously not a Terran player? I love you for stating what every Terran player has realized in WoL for seasons upon seasons of ladder play.
Kudos for all the thought and time you put into this. I hope Blizzard pays attention. This is just one article that dives into what made Brood War such an unbelievably balanced game the likes of which current Blizzard game designers may never be able to achieve.
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I love this post. Well done. 5/5
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Thanx, that's a great break down of the needs of a true mech play, and it applies to ALL the match ups really, not just TvT which is what you seem to have focused on here. Anyone have any thoughts for a mix that does pretty much the same theing in SC2 and then in HOTS.
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I personally love Mech expecially in Brood war but going mech tends to lead towards longer games and boring games. I wish Spider mines (Not Widow Mines) were coming back. I love spider mines.
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in broodwar there is a lot of positioning strategy with mech play. sc2 lack a lot of strategy and every single matchup for terran is played by marauder/marine/ medivac. really boring to watch it. and even in HOTS it doesn't seems viable to use mech because there is a lot of zerg and toss units that are anti mech and positioning. so we can just expect to see what they can do to make the game more interesting because it's really boring to watch
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it's probably because I've never watched BW that I don't get it, but I feel like what you call "mech" is a style that revolves around positional play. If that's the case, then I feel like sc2 have had a lot of great strategies that revolves around exactly that. TvT marine-tank is the first that comes to my mind, but I think also about mech against zerg. I saw a lot of player making very few thors in their mech plays against zerg, favoring the viking instead as anti-bl. All this to say that I don't get it ^^
Anyway, nice read man, thanks!
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Very well written! Good Job!
Hope blizzard pays attention to this topic and changes plans about terran's new stuff - it all seems wrong.
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Indeed.
Very good, nay, excellent post.
Mech play is positional play. Slow and methodical. It is the setup that makes it mech.
Plant Siege Tanks. Plant mines. Plant Turrets. Voila, a vertiable fortress right in front of your enemy. And it slowly crawls forward.
But in WoL it´s not strong enough. There are no mines. Tanks lose to stimmed marines. Thors alone are crap versus all air units that can fire downwards, even mutalisks.
Hope those Widow mines better be good.
I wish we could make the HOTS developers read this post.
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Good job, I hope blizzard will read
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There is 2 things that make me love SC BW, i.e. Boxer and Terran's Tank. I dont have them in SC2...
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EPT
