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Made this a blog because I don't want unnecessary drama, I just want to know what the rules are in regards to this.
Popular streamer from team Millenium, Dragon, is advertising a powerleveling service for SC2 accounts on his stream. From his stream (which is featured on TL), you can go to a website which shows his prices and contact details. Basically, you pay a certain amount of money, and Dragon will get your account promoted to the league of your choice.
I can't imagine this being legal within Blizzard's ToS (they banned TLO's account when HuK was using it right?), and while it's good that progamers can have additional sources of income something as shady as this could go sour for the reputation of Dragon and his team. Someone rants about it to Reddit and within minutes sponsors are contacted and Millenium boots him (I doubt this would actually happen, but it's happened before...).
Here's his prices from the website advertised on his stream:
![[image loading]](http://imgur.com/IQnOv.jpg)
I won't link to the website or to the contact address for obvious reasons.
So my question to you, the reader, is:
- do you have a problem with Dragon doing this?
- do you think this could have negative consequences for Dragon and/or Millenium?
- should Team Liquid enforce that streamers aren't allowed to advertise services against Blizzard TOS?
  
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dude leave him alone youre just bringing up drama
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I dont think it matters, who cares about it, If they want to do that for money or just for fun it should be ok.
People will complain because they like to start drama
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I'll pay him to demote me from bronze to wood league.
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On July 17 2012 11:28 iSometric wrote:
I'll pay him to demote me from bronze to wood league.
what? why??
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The real question is...
Will he pay me to flunk games on my account?
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It's wrong in that it's against blizzard's policy, but other than that I don't see anything wrong.
btw, if you wanted unnecessary drama, you could've at least tried to indirectly refer to the streamer. I mean, you're here asking for the legality behind all this, yet by pointing finger at someone, you're creating unnecessary drama.
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I don't have a problem with this at all. I'm a fan of Dragon, so you can call me biased all you want, but he's just trying to make extra cash since he probably doesn't make much aside from streaming and a salary (if he has one).
I don't think his team has much of a problem with it, considering a lot of the players seem laid-back and drunk 50% of the time. If they don't like it, though, they will probably tell him to stop doing it.
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If you dont want drama delete this shit. Why would you mention a specific person if you dont want drama? These people make next to minimum wage and are trying to make a bit of extra money so I have no problem with any of it. The real question is why the hell wouldn't a player do it if he needed the extra money?
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On July 17 2012 11:34 billy5000 wrote:
It's wrong in that it's against blizzard's policy, but other than that I don't see anything wrong.
btw, if you wanted unnecessary drama, you could've at least tried to indirectly refer to the streamer. I mean, you're here asking for the legality behind all this, yet by pointing finger at someone, you're creating unnecessary drama.
Hm, that's a very good idea that for some reason I didn't think of. Even if I didn't name him by saying he's a popular streamer offering this someone would have brought up Dragon.
With some googling I found that some other professional players (that are very well known) used to offer this until stopping because it's against the rules.
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On July 17 2012 11:21 Ruscour wrote:
Made this a blog because I don't want unnecessary drama, I just want to know what the rules are in regards to this.
Just delete the blog if you don't want unnecessary drama... and you don't have to point out a specific person to get your question across. There was also another thread on this same topic so read that, you'll basically get the same response anyway without banging anybody else's reputation.
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On July 17 2012 11:56 LeafMeAlone wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2012 11:21 Ruscour wrote:
Made this a blog because I don't want unnecessary drama, I just want to know what the rules are in regards to this.
Just delete the blog if you don't want unnecessary drama... and you don't have to point out a specific person to get your question across. There was also another thread on this same topic so read that, you'll basically get the same response anyway without banging anybody else's reputation.
You can't delete threads. Only mods can (and if any are around, feel free).
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On July 17 2012 11:58 Ruscour wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2012 11:56 LeafMeAlone wrote:On July 17 2012 11:21 Ruscour wrote:
Made this a blog because I don't want unnecessary drama, I just want to know what the rules are in regards to this.
Just delete the blog if you don't want unnecessary drama... and you don't have to point out a specific person to get your question across. There was also another thread on this same topic so read that, you'll basically get the same response anyway without banging anybody else's reputation. You can't delete threads. Only mods can (and if any are around, feel free).
You can edit out everything and just leave a note telling mods to delete, so not as many people will read.
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Why would anyone pay for that?
"Hey lets waste money having someone way better than us promote us to a league we can't get to ourselves so when we play it ourselves we will just get demoted right back down anyway due to not being good enough."
If the person is dumb enough to spend the money on it, then go right ahead.
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What a mockery of a blog.
You didn't need no names if you didn't exactly aim at bringing drama.
Pitiful.
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if he wants to make money of his profession , where do you see a problem? he does not hack to level up accounts, he offers a service, and ppl might pay for it, where is the problem?
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i'm pretty sure this is a bannable offense on bnet, didn't this happen like a year ago?
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Considering that only 200 people can be in GM, I find this really unacceptable because people unworthy of skill will be in GM, taking up spots which other players deserve. This affects players who are trying to get their name across but is having a hard time because they're only masters when they really should be GM. Also note that once you're in GM, you can't get kicked out unless it's due to inactivity
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On July 17 2012 12:35 Zoraque wrote:
Considering that only 200 people can be in GM, I find this really unacceptable because people unworthy of skill will be in GM, taking up spots which other players deserve. This affects players who are trying to get their name across but is having a hard time because they're only masters when they really should be GM. Also note that once you're in GM, you can't get kicked out unless it's due to inactivity
and once the account is no longer being leveled, those players will drop out either because they are no longer laddering and afraid to lose their rank, or they will just be kicked out and eventually drop back to where they were originally because they're bad.
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It's blizzard's game, and doing this is strictly against their terms of service. Wouldn't surprised me if they took action against the accounts that got powered into another league by a professional.
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"Made this a blog because I don't want unnecessary drama"
Sure, dude.
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why in bw time nobody offer iccup power leveling service =P .
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
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lol if kids are stupid enough to want their account leveled to show off, then let them waste their money. Also, a lot of things are against ToS, doesn't stop people..Sound modding, color modding, etc.
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Its obvious this is against the EULA and TOS, but he hacked before, so why would this be any different. I'm not into player bashing, but he has a bad history in the game, he was damaged goods when he came to SlayerS_ and then he left in a rediculous manner with tons of drama and now HE, not the OP, Dragon is looking to make a quick buck because he is half decent at SCII and can't really win a large tournament now. I find this wholly unacceptable in that it steals spaces in GM, it ruins peoples experiences when HE plays and trolls them which pretty much gets rid of the point of having a ladder system that pits you against people your level, ruining other experiences. Thats not the same as a smurf or port farming, those people who smurf do it to relevel an account so they shoot up, dragon would pretty much be port farming into mid masters, which most people look down on. This may as well be a mirror image of my previous post, but this is not an acceptable behavior for a pro.
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On July 17 2012 13:32 docvoc wrote:
Its obvious this is against the EULA and TOS, but he hacked before, so why would this be any different. I'm not into player bashing, but he has a bad history in the game, he was damaged goods when he came to SlayerS_ and then he left in a rediculous manner with tons of drama and now HE, not the OP, Dragon is looking to make a quick buck because he is half decent at SCII and can't really win a large tournament now. I find this wholly unacceptable in that it steals spaces in GM, it ruins peoples experiences when HE plays and trolls them which pretty much gets rid of the point of having a ladder system that pits you against people your level, ruining other experiences. Thats not the same as a smurf or port farming, those people who smurf do it to relevel an account so they shoot up, dragon would pretty much be port farming into mid masters, which most people look down on. This may as well be a mirror image of my previous post, but this is not an acceptable behavior for a pro.
Good thing you're not into player bashing!
Also, I believe
On July 17 2012 13:32 docvoc wrote:
rediculous
would make the perfect TL;DR for both your post and this blog entry.
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I don't understand why everybody is so upset at the original post. I think it's a legitimate point to at least discuss. My 2 cents on the issue:
1. It's laughable that people pay to have their accounts leveled up
2. I am not surprised that pro players do it because typically SC2 is their only source of income
3. It should be a bannable offense
When I was still playing, some of my buddies regularly offered me to level my account up to high master or GM. But I always refused because I wanted to make diamond on my own. And I retired as soon as I made it because there was nothing left to achieve.
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Only a fool would pay for this because they're going to tank it back to their skill level and then have lost $20+ for nothing LOL
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I have a friend that payed to get his account to grandmaster, but hes an idiot.
Hasn't Dragon been doing this forever? I tuned into his stream months ago, and stopped watching when he was stomping silver-gold players and getting the accounts higher ranked. If he can take peoples money, more power to him.
If we want to talk about blizzards ToS, teamliquidTV casts uses the strong team color mod, so teamliquid obviously isn't against all and every ToS breach. This is much different, so depending how they feel, they can do as they choose. I don't see how its hurting anybody (except a few people in GM), and im sure he needs the money since progaming is not profitable.
Yes, you were trying to start drama, if you didn't want drama you wouldn't post this at all.
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I wonder how many games Bronze to GM averages for Dragon... that seems cheap for how long it must take.
Also "Made this a blog because I don't want unnecessary drama"?
Yeah you do. 
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On July 17 2012 15:36 RevTiberius wrote:
I don't understand why everybody is so upset at the original post.
Well... I reread the OP and you are right. It didn't occur to me that the PL offer was so transparent, so I guess there's nothing to be angry at with OP blog.
Apologies, cheers.
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Those prices are retardedly low imo. Even though he's winning 100% of his games from bronze to GM that still takes a long time. I would hope his time is worth more than a mere $110 for that.
Also, once GM is full he won't be able to get people in I hope he realizes. He should charge way more for that and do it right at the beginning of the season.
And yeah, while idc about him leveling people to masters. I think going all the way to GM is unethical because it takes slots from others who might actually deserve the spot.
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On July 17 2012 11:21 Ruscour wrote:
So my question to you, the reader, is:
- do you have a problem with Dragon doing this?
- do you think this could have negative consequences for Dragon and/or Millenium?
- should Team Liquid enforce that streamers aren't allowed to advertise services against Blizzard TOS?
No; No; No. And I wouldn't even count myself as a Millenium fan (old national rivalries).
Blizzard's TOS are stupid, I think everybody agrees on that. Even the courts in various countries.
So I don't see TL in the responsibility to reinforce them.
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To address comments like "if you didn't want drama then why post this" etc, I'm trying to raise awareness about a potentially serious issue without causing a shitstorm. If I wanted to create drama, /r/starcraft would be all over this shit.
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I don't get it-what's the point in power leveling when you're not as skilled as the others at that level?
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Personally I don't see anything wrong with powerlevel. Pros need a little extra money, there's nothing wrong with that. If the players paying for the service is inactive, then they get demoted off GM. If they actually play games and isn't capable of hanging with GM, they would get demoted.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=353266
Go here and express yourself about powerleveling. You're just singling out Dragon >_<
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- do you have a problem with Dragon doing this?
I think it's bad for the game so yeah. I don't think Dragon should be punished or anything, but I would prefer if he didn't do it, it definitely makes me less of a fan.
- do you think this could have negative consequences for Dragon and/or Millenium?
Dragon might lose some respect and fans, but otherwise, no. It's not a big deal.
- should Team Liquid enforce that streamers aren't allowed to advertise services against Blizzard TOS?
I don't think it would help, the streamers would still advertise it elsewhere and I seriously doubt TL would like to remove streams like Dragons from the list just because of minor things like this.
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I personally don't have a problem with it, but blizzard obviously does as they banned an account of HuK/TLO as you said.
As for the guy above saying he will lose fans, he definitely won't. His fans actually prefer him trolling wood league players with mass ravens and stuff as opposed to tryharding on GM ladder
Dunno what Mill. would think about it though.
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I don't think he's charging enough.
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I don't get why people like Dragon. Just because he makes funny faces on his stream or something? He pretty much either smurfs and acts like a douche to low league players, or powerlevels accounts. Not to mention he was a confirmed cheater that promised not to be a progamer ever again.. And then turns around and does.
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On July 17 2012 16:12 Murlox wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2012 15:36 RevTiberius wrote:
I don't understand why everybody is so upset at the original post. Well... I reread the OP and you are right. It didn't occur to me that the PL offer was so transparent, so I guess there's nothing to be angry at with OP blog. Apologies, cheers.
This post actually impressed me. Thanks!
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People did shit like this a lot on iCCup back in the day, so I'm not surprised to see similar services now. That being said, half of the 'appeal' was that you could go in a channel with B+ or A- rank and people would be impressed, but Bnet 2.0 isn't really like that, and the rank of the player means so much less and isn't easily view able that I don't really see where there would be much of a market.
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I really don't see the big deal, I mean he is just a guy that is looking to make some.. some umm... hey, what the... what's that pitchfork doing on the ground over here? Better pick it up and ...
Dragon should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law, and Blizzard should file suits against both Dragon, His team and all is sponsors.
Everyone should boycott him and everything he does, and all his sponsors. I encourage everyone to write a letter to him and his family telling them what a disappointment this whole thing is.
If we all band together we can stop injustice in a video game.
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Is anyone going to do anything about it? No.
Should Dragon be doing it? If he wants?
Do I think less of Dragon for doing it? Yes.
Should you? I hope so.
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On July 17 2012 11:21 Ruscour wrote:
Made this a blog because I don't want unnecessary drama, I just want to know what the rules are in regards to this.
For the record, no one believes you. If you "just wanted to know what the rules are" you could read the EULA, ask in the thread about this exact same issue or found countless other ways to get an answer.
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The people who are mad on dragon because of this, are probably just jealous of the people that have a "high account". So it looks like they're better than them. You can't buy skill, and the people who buy this, just want to brag to their friends or something. I'ts not that they're gonna suddenly beat you now, because they're in Master league. Believe it or not, but there's actually some skill required to stay in a high league.
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Calgary25969 Posts
I already told him not to do this or he would be unfeatured. Guess he doesn't care.
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On July 17 2012 12:42 LgNKami wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2012 12:35 Zoraque wrote:
Considering that only 200 people can be in GM, I find this really unacceptable because people unworthy of skill will be in GM, taking up spots which other players deserve. This affects players who are trying to get their name across but is having a hard time because they're only masters when they really should be GM. Also note that once you're in GM, you can't get kicked out unless it's due to inactivity and once the account is no longer being leveled, those players will drop out either because they are no longer laddering and afraid to lose their rank, or they will just be kicked out and eventually drop back to where they were originally because they're bad.
once the account is no longer being leveled, he will still remain in GM. He just has to play 1 game every other week. You cant get kicked out of GM for being bad unless its start of new season
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Meh... what's the issue? Because it's against the TOS, I suppose... It's also illegal to jaywalk and have garage sales, but no one cares. Doesn't bother me none. I like Dragon, and he plays often enough, so some extra cash on the side to play more doesn't sound so bad. I guess I would rather Dragon and other real pros get the chump change rather than some random Chinese gold selling website that offers power leveling...
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On July 18 2012 07:05 Spikeke wrote:
Meh... what's the issue? Because it's against the TOS, I suppose... It's also illegal to jaywalk and have garage sales, but no one cares. Doesn't bother me none. I like Dragon, and he plays often enough, so some extra cash on the side to play more doesn't sound so bad. I guess I would rather Dragon and other real pros get the chump change rather than some random Chinese gold selling website that offers power leveling...
"I like him therefore he can break rules."
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This is so bizarre to me. What is the point of owning an account that is higher league than your skill level? The only reason I can see is to brag to friends or something... seems incredibly pathetic.
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On July 18 2012 08:17 Glurkenspurk wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2012 07:05 Spikeke wrote:
Meh... what's the issue? Because it's against the TOS, I suppose... It's also illegal to jaywalk and have garage sales, but no one cares. Doesn't bother me none. I like Dragon, and he plays often enough, so some extra cash on the side to play more doesn't sound so bad. I guess I would rather Dragon and other real pros get the chump change rather than some random Chinese gold selling website that offers power leveling... "I like him therefore he can break rules."
I like everyone who contributes positivity to the SC2 community. I suppose I don't understand the rule, other than protecting naive people from giving out their accounts to scams, identify thieves, etc. I don't see the problem if both parties agree. I guess would prefer a pro doing this than some shady website, because their intents are more benevolent, and hopefully they provide back to the community.
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the joke is one whoever pays for this. people against stupid shit like this make no sense: you want esports to grow and sustain (presumably), yet you dont seem to realize that progamers need to make money? This is a pointless thread about a harmless thing done by a harmless guy. i just saw another like this... i wish TL would stop allowing stupid shit like this
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Wasn't there a thread about this kind of thing like.. yesterday?
I don't care personally, but I thought Dragon was cutting down on fucking around in the lower leagues to get some actual training done.
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On July 18 2012 07:00 Chill wrote:
I already told him not to do this or he would be unfeatured. Guess he doesn't care.
Seems like he is still featured by looks of things.
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I can see the logic of some players to do this though.
Imagine you're a platinum player constantly headbutting against the diamonds and not really progressing. Getting masters by Dragon could amp up your learning curve as you're getting used to fighting masters, as opposed to the constant stream of low diamonds. It could be a way people learn.
This does not mean I agree or disagree with this problem.
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why must you pick on dragon? iirc ForGG does this too and so do many other progammers
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Way to bring drama. Who really cares? All he is doing is saving time for people. If you are getting your account leveled up, you aren't going to win any games unless you are of that level already. Let Blizzard do what it wants.
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I'm actually just genuinely curious as what happens if over 200 people pay Dragon to power level their accounts to grandmaster in a certain region. Seems like a kidney shot to the credibility
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I was warned to get unfeatured a year ago for this. Also Powerleveling is like selling crack/cocaine. The buyer will never live up to your work and will be depressed/tormented. I felt bad for what I did and never do it anymore. When people email me, I don't say no and then try to convince them that it's just a game and they should not do it.
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On July 18 2012 08:17 Glurkenspurk wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2012 07:05 Spikeke wrote:
Meh... what's the issue? Because it's against the TOS, I suppose... It's also illegal to jaywalk and have garage sales, but no one cares. Doesn't bother me none. I like Dragon, and he plays often enough, so some extra cash on the side to play more doesn't sound so bad. I guess I would rather Dragon and other real pros get the chump change rather than some random Chinese gold selling website that offers power leveling... "I like him therefore he can break rules."
welcome to TL.net.
doesn't matter if it's BW or SC2, people say some retarded shit all for the sake of apologia.
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On July 22 2012 09:42 desRow wrote:
I was warned to get unfeatured a year ago for this. Also Powerleveling is like selling crack/cocaine. The buyer will never live up to your work and will be depressed/tormented. I felt bad for what I did and never do it anymore. When people email me, I don't say no and then try to convince them that it's just a game and they should not do it.
Good guy Desrow, being a role model in the sc2 community
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I'd do it myself if it was worth my time, I just don't understand why Dragon is willing to sell off his time for so cheap. Bronze to Master, even if you win every game, takes quite some time. And I don't know about Master->GM but I'd assume that takes a lot of time as well - but at least there he can get some practice on the way.
As for the morality of it, I'd question the buyer's motives. And I couldn't care less about the EULA and all that corporate cockadoodle.
Overall stupid product for stupid people, but what the hell, spend your money in a way that makes you happy.
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On July 22 2012 12:26 Djzapz wrote:
I'd do it myself if it was worth my time, I just don't understand why Dragon is willing to sell off his time for so cheap. Bronze to Master, even if you win every game, takes quite some time. And I don't know about Master->GM but I'd assume that takes a lot of time as well - but at least there he can get some practice on the way.
As for the morality of it, I'd question the buyer's motives. And I couldn't care less about the EULA and all that corporate cockadoodle.
Overall stupid product for stupid people, but what the hell, spend your money in a way that makes you happy.
hes obviously making more money making it fun and trolling since hes shamelessly streaming those sessions
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On July 23 2012 06:07 desRow wrote:
hes obviously making more money making it fun and trolling since hes shamelessly streaming those sessions
Truly, he has no shame. How dare he stream himself playing Starcraft.
On July 22 2012 09:42 desRow wrote:
I was warned to get unfeatured a year ago for this. Also Powerleveling is like selling crack/cocaine. The buyer will never live up to your work and will be depressed/tormented. I felt bad for what I did and never do it anymore. When people email me, I don't say no and then try to convince them that it's just a game and they should not do it.
This confession took quite a lot of guts, but thanks for publicly disclosing that you've renounced this wickedness. You're a role model of Battle.net morality. If there's a market for account leveling, there's a market for it, and people who want to spend their money getting their account leveled will inevitably find someone who will do it for them. There's nobody who needs protection from account leveling.
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lol.. you guys act like this is against the law or something. it's against blizzards terms of service and that's it.
i guarantee every last one of you fools downloads songs or movies, games, smokes weed, speeds, and a whole slew of shit a million times worse.
if blizzards TOS stated that you needed to jump off a bridge, would you do that too?
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On July 23 2012 07:21 Epoch wrote:
lol.. you guys act like this is against the law or something. it's against blizzards terms of service and that's it.
i guarantee every last one of you fools downloads songs or movies, games, smokes weed, speeds, and a whole slew of shit a million times worse.
if blizzards TOS stated that you needed to jump off a bridge, would you do that too?
This is possibly the stupidest justification ever formulated for breaking rules you agreed to follow
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Honestly, I could see where it's useful (maybe getting bumped up one league that you think you'd be competent in but the game just won't let you in) but let sleeping dogs lie. If he's pulling money from this, let him be and let the economy work.
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Calgary25969 Posts
On July 23 2012 07:21 Epoch wrote:
lol.. you guys act like this is against the law or something. it's against blizzards terms of service and that's it.
i guarantee every last one of you fools downloads songs or movies, games, smokes weed, speeds, and a whole slew of shit a million times worse.
if blizzards TOS stated that you needed to jump off a bridge, would you do that too?
It's also against TL's featured stream rules.
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On July 23 2012 07:21 Epoch wrote:
lol.. you guys act like this is against the law or something. it's against blizzards terms of service and that's it.
i guarantee every last one of you fools downloads songs or movies, games, smokes weed, speeds, and a whole slew of shit a million times worse.
if blizzards TOS stated that you needed to jump off a bridge, would you do that too?
I prefer smoking speed and weeding, but that's just me.
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I don't really understand why you'd want to be in a league above a skill level where you could get by yourself, it's not like Diablo 2 where the game is all about trading, mfing, and pking and doesn't really start until ~lv80 (it's more of a time grind, rather than a skill test. My friends and I made quite a bit of money powerleveling characters back in high school so maybe I'm a bit biased).
I mean, if hypothetically ret wanted to make a new account to practice anonymously and got it powerleveled to GM just because he doesn't want to go through the grind, I guess it could be justified, but there are other avenues you could explore in that case anyways.
If you can't beat people in Master, why would you want to be in Master when you'll just get demoted? Sure, you learn more playing against those who are better than you and losing, but still, the situation seems silly. Bragging for the sake of bragging is retarded.
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That's a pretty shitty deal for dragon imo, $110 from Bronze to GM is way under minimum wage thinking about how much time it takes to get up that far.
It's pretty obvious that he's desperate for money and is taking advantage of people that will pay him and think it will be done overnight.
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On July 26 2012 02:12 Gogleion wrote:
That's a pretty shitty deal for dragon imo, $110 from Bronze to GM is way under minimum wage thinking about how much time it takes to get up that far.
It's pretty obvious that he's desperate for money and is taking advantage of people that will pay him and think it will be done overnight.
The math is kinda weird too. Sometimes it's worth paying him to powerlevel one league at a time, sometimes 2 at a time.
That said, I guess if you ladder a bunch at least in the lower leagues it would be easy. In upper leagues maybe he'd have to jack the prices up a bit.
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Threads like these should be locked and the OP should be temp banned.
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Oh, I thought for a second he'd coach people up in leagues lol
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who cares? ppl really dont have nothing to do . . .
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What is wrong with people stating there is nothing wrong with powerleveling another persons account? No one cares in Diablo or WoW, because you don't harm others. In this case, Dragon will fuck up others players by making them lose due to his superior skill. Also if you pay him, the GM will be flooded with players that don't belong there. The last place in GM (when I checked) played his last 30 games against platinum.
Those players don't belong there and make promotion into GM for people that really deserve to be there really hard. I think it should be banned and actions should be taken against this. Heromarine for example needed nearly 1700 points to be promoted which is ridiculous. He played 2 weeks against top 30 GM already.
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EPT
