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On June 19 2012 03:05 Drowsy wrote:
I agree wholeheartedly. Especially about the 6 pool comment; I'm still astonished this horseshit coinflip hasn't been patched out of the game already. Just make it require 2 overlords on the field. I kinda don't mind zerg being a lot more resilient early game than before, but this is combined with insanely strong lategame making things totally broken. Infestors and hive tech units are straight up too damn good.
They should definitely revert snipe nerf for starters.
Wait so now terrans have a hard time against 6 pools? When they can have a full wall by the time lings get there, literally making it an insta-loss for zerg, and thus a HUGE gamble in any game?
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This blog should just be removed imo. People are coming here just to add in the tears or tell terrans that the matchup is not broken when they don't understand anything about the matchup, or suggest stupid things.
Rofl when people are still saying scan is good after two years...
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On June 19 2012 05:08 KawaiiRice wrote:
This blog should just be removed imo. People are coming here just to add in the tears or tell terrans that the matchup is not broken when they don't understand anything about the matchup, or suggest stupid things.
Rofl when people are still saying scan is good after two years...
What someone needs to do is make a very informed blog in the general SC2 section perfectly illustrating the problem before it takes another 2 months for them to revert the TvZ changes or buff Terran lategame.
At this point it's unplayable, and I'm sure Terrans right now are all considering either race change, customs, or d3 until HOTS comes out or a patch.
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![[image loading]](http://images.wikia.com/southpark/images/e/e9/ScottTenormanMustDie30.gif)
User was warned for this post
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On June 19 2012 05:05 galtdunn wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2012 03:05 Drowsy wrote:
I agree wholeheartedly. Especially about the 6 pool comment; I'm still astonished this horseshit coinflip hasn't been patched out of the game already. Just make it require 2 overlords on the field. I kinda don't mind zerg being a lot more resilient early game than before, but this is combined with insanely strong lategame making things totally broken. Infestors and hive tech units are straight up too damn good.
They should definitely revert snipe nerf for starters. Wait so now terrans have a hard time against 6 pools? When they can have a full wall by the time lings get there, literally making it an insta-loss for zerg, and thus a HUGE gamble in any game?
Indeed. The 6 pool argument is one of the stupidest arguments I've ever seen on TL. There has never been anything that is more bad vs a standard opening than 6 pool in sc2. If terran makes barracks before cc it loses 100% of the time regardless of micro. To even call it a coin flip suggests that it has a 50/50 chance of suceeding which is ridiculous in itself.
If you want to talk about coin flips then terran can proxy 2 rax bunker rush and that opening has a FAR greater chance of succeeding than 6 pool would ever have. If you don't think so then you're incredibly biased. Holding off a proxy 2 rax requires scouting it, pulling about 90% of your workers and microing well against the marines and scvs. Holding off a 6 pool requires you to rally your marine inside your base and bring 3 scvs to repair the wall.
Terran finally has to work to beat a zerg (not just rely on coinflipping with 1 base all ins) and they all just start complaining. How about you try to adapt mech+ravens+vikings or tankless bio instead of playing 4 month old strategies and whining about imba?
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On June 18 2012 07:50 FinestHour wrote:
Ravens suck for tvz. Name a high level terran that uses them consistently and also wins tournaments. Also, only three terrans in the RO16 for Dreamhack?
Look at the top 16 for MLG, an obviously much harder tournament than Dreamhack. Don't try to turn the happenings of one tournaments RO16 into an argument.
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On June 19 2012 04:33 sieksdekciw wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2012 02:41 thegiantnome wrote:
Just go early 3CC mech and 1 scan is nothing. If you don't like mech GET 3CC'S ANYWAYS!!!! If your going to sit back and do nothing (like most terranes do) you might as well have the third cc. Those 400 minerals pay for themselves quickly and easily (allowing you to get 60 workers far more rapidly I might add) I am a masters terran player in EU and I guarantee you with 3CC opening vs 3 hatch opening, zerg can reach 60 workers before terran has reached 39 AND have a creep spread, AND have a map presence. As for sitting back as a terran, unfortunately, this is a luxury that only zergs and tosses can afford. I don't know if you are in par with recent Blizzard announcements, but actually it is evident that if terran sits and does nothing, he is getting behind compared to a zerg/toss that does nothing . So I severely doubt that sitting back is what terrans do. Maybe at your league it is the case but then this league is below gold. Thank you for also enlightening me that a 3cc opening might be good. However: 1. Terran gives map control for basically 6-7 minutes. For that time zerg can be either 6-exping or prepping for bane roach bust. There is NO WAY, I guarantee you, NO WAY, terran can guess what zerg is doing without wasting at least 3 scans. 2. If scouted which is basically super easy and equivalent to one overlord, 3cc gives zerg two options - droning like crazy, which actually will put terran's opening behind, or prepping for a high eco roach bane ling bust which, as we see in every match in recent months, is devastating and can't be stopped without tanks. Hence the 23% win rate of terran in GSL and GSTL 3. Before giving advice to a masters terran player, please provide information about your league and some sample replays where you play terran with the said opening and also provide minute marks at which we can check economy of terran compared to zerg. Thank you for your reply. I am looking forward to the replays.
OK let's theorycraft then shall we?
We keep on talking about zerg making nothing but queens and drones. What is good against queens? Marines.
So we need to figure out a marine timing that hits zerg and punishes for greediness.
I would say pump first 125 gas into tech lab and stim and 170 later attack with a pack of marines.
Queens can be made only 1 at a time at a hatch and it takes 50 seconds to make one so we are talking 5-7 queens as defence. Definitely more than enough marines can be made during that time.
There has to be a timing attack to explore as a terran.
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It's obvious there are issues with some core fundamentals with the matchup and I'm encouraged to see many people are aware.
Tournament and overall ladder results/stats will continue to agree. I'm sure Blizzard will be addressing it soon.
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On June 19 2012 04:41 beetlelisk wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2012 04:05 stew_ wrote:On June 19 2012 03:59 beetlelisk wrote:On June 19 2012 03:33 SDQKRambo wrote:
Making a ton of bunkers as terran and playing absolutely defensive with no map presence and making a bunch of queens that hold off everything and contribute to insanely fast creep spread are completely different. Also the OP also wants to find a way to open with a macro style the doesn't straight up to die to a allin, which zerg is now totally safe from if he is competent at all. You seem to be missing the main points of the blog, I suggest you re-read it again.
really? you read this as a strategy request blog? queens, slow lings, slow banes and even infestors are all essentially defensive units, do you really think that there is no way for terran to take a fast 3rd against that? If it's a PF - or even an orbital defended by a few tanks and bunkers - zerg can't engage it before ultras. i see your a zerg so let me tell this to u, do u REALLY think its ok for terran to take PF as 3rd CC ? =free win to zerg here yo i would RLY like to see zerg nerfed,after all my games and from what i seen,it seems hopeless for terran to win any tourneys or win against zerg overall, it requires ALOT of skill,macro,micro,structures from terran side to keep up,while zerg can have fast 3rd, build 4,5 queens and defend it ez against hellion harrass or something like that,like ppl say, zerg just needs to A-move into terran army, drop some EZPZ fungals and win every engagement, also dont forget that zerg's tech switching is million times faster than terran's,like...zerg starts with ling/bane,infestor, terran answers with marine/tank, and that zerg comp does alot of damage,and while that zerg is making a ultra cavern,and when his ling/bane dies (IF it dies) he just spams like 10-15 ultras that pop at once,and ofc terran has to switch to mass marauders and good zergs always know that,and when terran has like equal numbers of marines and marauders, by that time zerg has prob spamed shit lots of corrupters that are gona turn into shit lots of broodlords after his ultra army dies (IF it dies,again), and good terrans should know that,but when they have lots of medivacs,marines,tanks,marauders,theres just not that many supply left to take down the corrupters AND the broodlords,and terran also has to make air upgrades but most terrans would start em AFTER the broodlords are poped, and ofc most times vikings get fungaled aswell and die,so i pretty much want zerg to get nerfed so terran still has a chance of winning Again, what is wrong with using ghosts against infestors? the fact that the infestors are bulky and do not take as much AoE from EMP is one thing. i think it was also mentioned previously how useless ghosts become against crackling army even after you take care of the infestors So how many Infestors can be hit, 4-6? That's still enough, we are talking 200/100 for a ghost making 400/600 to 600/900 resources of units useless, how it's not a good trade? And what's more it's pretty easy calculation - would you rather have a dozen of marines in red after a fungal which means 600 minerals nearly lost for nothing or make a Ghost for 200/100 to prevent that? Multiply that by amount of Infestors that can be hit by an EMP and it suddenly becomes 50-60 marines getting their hps down to red or using a single ghost. People keep whining about Infestor's and Fungals so I keep asking what is wrong with Ghosts that they aren't mentioned at all.
For 10 perfect clumped up infestors you need just 2 emps. But you're not gonna pull that off in a game, 6 emps should be enough though. (Remember you need to EMP twice if the infestor has more than 175 energy.)
I'll try it in my next game, turtle untill they've got that composition and see what will happen.
Also I'm wondering, are 3/3 cracklings cost effective against a ghost/marauder/medivac army?
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If zerg spots any sort of 'early stim timing attack' he simply places A spine and you will die to 5 queens w/ lings under spine and being on creep.
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On June 19 2012 04:54 stew_ wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2012 04:41 beetlelisk wrote:On June 19 2012 04:05 stew_ wrote:On June 19 2012 03:59 beetlelisk wrote:On June 19 2012 03:33 SDQKRambo wrote:
Making a ton of bunkers as terran and playing absolutely defensive with no map presence and making a bunch of queens that hold off everything and contribute to insanely fast creep spread are completely different. Also the OP also wants to find a way to open with a macro style the doesn't straight up to die to a allin, which zerg is now totally safe from if he is competent at all. You seem to be missing the main points of the blog, I suggest you re-read it again.
really? you read this as a strategy request blog? queens, slow lings, slow banes and even infestors are all essentially defensive units, do you really think that there is no way for terran to take a fast 3rd against that? If it's a PF - or even an orbital defended by a few tanks and bunkers - zerg can't engage it before ultras. i see your a zerg so let me tell this to u, do u REALLY think its ok for terran to take PF as 3rd CC ? =free win to zerg here yo i would RLY like to see zerg nerfed,after all my games and from what i seen,it seems hopeless for terran to win any tourneys or win against zerg overall, it requires ALOT of skill,macro,micro,structures from terran side to keep up,while zerg can have fast 3rd, build 4,5 queens and defend it ez against hellion harrass or something like that,like ppl say, zerg just needs to A-move into terran army, drop some EZPZ fungals and win every engagement, also dont forget that zerg's tech switching is million times faster than terran's,like...zerg starts with ling/bane,infestor, terran answers with marine/tank, and that zerg comp does alot of damage,and while that zerg is making a ultra cavern,and when his ling/bane dies (IF it dies) he just spams like 10-15 ultras that pop at once,and ofc terran has to switch to mass marauders and good zergs always know that,and when terran has like equal numbers of marines and marauders, by that time zerg has prob spamed shit lots of corrupters that are gona turn into shit lots of broodlords after his ultra army dies (IF it dies,again), and good terrans should know that,but when they have lots of medivacs,marines,tanks,marauders,theres just not that many supply left to take down the corrupters AND the broodlords,and terran also has to make air upgrades but most terrans would start em AFTER the broodlords are poped, and ofc most times vikings get fungaled aswell and die,so i pretty much want zerg to get nerfed so terran still has a chance of winning Again, what is wrong with using ghosts against infestors? the fact that the infestors are bulky and do not take as much AoE from EMP is one thing. i think it was also mentioned previously how useless ghosts become against crackling army even after you take care of the infestors So how many Infestors can be hit, 4-6? That's still enough, we are talking 200/100 for a ghost making 400/600 to 600/900 resources of units useless, how it's not a good trade? And what's more it's pretty easy calculation - would you rather have a dozen of marines in red after a fungal which means 600 minerals nearly lost for nothing or make a Ghost for 200/100 to prevent that? Multiply that by amount of Infestors that can be hit by an EMP and it suddenly becomes 50-60 marines getting their hps down to red or using a single ghost. People keep whining about Infestor's and Fungals so I keep asking what is wrong with Ghosts that they aren't mentioned at all. oh, also forgot to mention. cloaked ghosts die pretty fast to fungals and speedlings
Then you keep your marines close by to aid ghosts in need. And I think it's still a fair trade to sacrifice 1 Ghost for making 4-6 Infestors useless. Or bring 3+ spread out ghosts so zerg has no chance at fungaling them all before they cast EMPs. Sacrifice 1 or 2 and run back with the rest to reuse them later.
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On June 19 2012 05:22 Htw wrote:Show nested quote +On June 18 2012 07:50 FinestHour wrote:
Ravens suck for tvz. Name a high level terran that uses them consistently and also wins tournaments. Also, only three terrans in the RO16 for Dreamhack? Look at the top 16 for MLG, an obviously much harder tournament than Dreamhack. Don't try to turn the happenings of one tournaments RO16 into an argument.
Where the winner says Zerg will beat terran unless the z makes a mistake?
And top 4 Zerg at gigabyte
Also golden was neural parasiting ravens and reverse hsm/turreting mvpdream at gigabyte. What a trash unit
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On June 19 2012 05:34 beetlelisk wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2012 04:54 stew_ wrote:On June 19 2012 04:41 beetlelisk wrote:On June 19 2012 04:05 stew_ wrote:On June 19 2012 03:59 beetlelisk wrote:On June 19 2012 03:33 SDQKRambo wrote:
Making a ton of bunkers as terran and playing absolutely defensive with no map presence and making a bunch of queens that hold off everything and contribute to insanely fast creep spread are completely different. Also the OP also wants to find a way to open with a macro style the doesn't straight up to die to a allin, which zerg is now totally safe from if he is competent at all. You seem to be missing the main points of the blog, I suggest you re-read it again.
really? you read this as a strategy request blog? queens, slow lings, slow banes and even infestors are all essentially defensive units, do you really think that there is no way for terran to take a fast 3rd against that? If it's a PF - or even an orbital defended by a few tanks and bunkers - zerg can't engage it before ultras. i see your a zerg so let me tell this to u, do u REALLY think its ok for terran to take PF as 3rd CC ? =free win to zerg here yo i would RLY like to see zerg nerfed,after all my games and from what i seen,it seems hopeless for terran to win any tourneys or win against zerg overall, it requires ALOT of skill,macro,micro,structures from terran side to keep up,while zerg can have fast 3rd, build 4,5 queens and defend it ez against hellion harrass or something like that,like ppl say, zerg just needs to A-move into terran army, drop some EZPZ fungals and win every engagement, also dont forget that zerg's tech switching is million times faster than terran's,like...zerg starts with ling/bane,infestor, terran answers with marine/tank, and that zerg comp does alot of damage,and while that zerg is making a ultra cavern,and when his ling/bane dies (IF it dies) he just spams like 10-15 ultras that pop at once,and ofc terran has to switch to mass marauders and good zergs always know that,and when terran has like equal numbers of marines and marauders, by that time zerg has prob spamed shit lots of corrupters that are gona turn into shit lots of broodlords after his ultra army dies (IF it dies,again), and good terrans should know that,but when they have lots of medivacs,marines,tanks,marauders,theres just not that many supply left to take down the corrupters AND the broodlords,and terran also has to make air upgrades but most terrans would start em AFTER the broodlords are poped, and ofc most times vikings get fungaled aswell and die,so i pretty much want zerg to get nerfed so terran still has a chance of winning Again, what is wrong with using ghosts against infestors? the fact that the infestors are bulky and do not take as much AoE from EMP is one thing. i think it was also mentioned previously how useless ghosts become against crackling army even after you take care of the infestors So how many Infestors can be hit, 4-6? That's still enough, we are talking 200/100 for a ghost making 400/600 to 600/900 resources of units useless, how it's not a good trade? And what's more it's pretty easy calculation - would you rather have a dozen of marines in red after a fungal which means 600 minerals nearly lost for nothing or make a Ghost for 200/100 to prevent that? Multiply that by amount of Infestors that can be hit by an EMP and it suddenly becomes 50-60 marines getting their hps down to red or using a single ghost. People keep whining about Infestor's and Fungals so I keep asking what is wrong with Ghosts that they aren't mentioned at all. oh, also forgot to mention. cloaked ghosts die pretty fast to fungals and speedlings Then you keep your marines close by to aid ghosts in need. And I think it's still a fair trade to sacrifice 1 Ghost for making 4-6 Infestors useless. Or bring 3+ spread out ghosts so zerg has no chance at fungaling them all before they cast EMPs. Sacrifice 1 or 2 and run back with the rest to reuse them later.
You can only hit infestors if the Zerg screws up his position. You are lucky to hit one infestor... Let alone multiple rofl
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On June 19 2012 05:30 kranten wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2012 04:41 beetlelisk wrote:On June 19 2012 04:05 stew_ wrote:On June 19 2012 03:59 beetlelisk wrote:On June 19 2012 03:33 SDQKRambo wrote:
Making a ton of bunkers as terran and playing absolutely defensive with no map presence and making a bunch of queens that hold off everything and contribute to insanely fast creep spread are completely different. Also the OP also wants to find a way to open with a macro style the doesn't straight up to die to a allin, which zerg is now totally safe from if he is competent at all. You seem to be missing the main points of the blog, I suggest you re-read it again.
really? you read this as a strategy request blog? queens, slow lings, slow banes and even infestors are all essentially defensive units, do you really think that there is no way for terran to take a fast 3rd against that? If it's a PF - or even an orbital defended by a few tanks and bunkers - zerg can't engage it before ultras. i see your a zerg so let me tell this to u, do u REALLY think its ok for terran to take PF as 3rd CC ? =free win to zerg here yo i would RLY like to see zerg nerfed,after all my games and from what i seen,it seems hopeless for terran to win any tourneys or win against zerg overall, it requires ALOT of skill,macro,micro,structures from terran side to keep up,while zerg can have fast 3rd, build 4,5 queens and defend it ez against hellion harrass or something like that,like ppl say, zerg just needs to A-move into terran army, drop some EZPZ fungals and win every engagement, also dont forget that zerg's tech switching is million times faster than terran's,like...zerg starts with ling/bane,infestor, terran answers with marine/tank, and that zerg comp does alot of damage,and while that zerg is making a ultra cavern,and when his ling/bane dies (IF it dies) he just spams like 10-15 ultras that pop at once,and ofc terran has to switch to mass marauders and good zergs always know that,and when terran has like equal numbers of marines and marauders, by that time zerg has prob spamed shit lots of corrupters that are gona turn into shit lots of broodlords after his ultra army dies (IF it dies,again), and good terrans should know that,but when they have lots of medivacs,marines,tanks,marauders,theres just not that many supply left to take down the corrupters AND the broodlords,and terran also has to make air upgrades but most terrans would start em AFTER the broodlords are poped, and ofc most times vikings get fungaled aswell and die,so i pretty much want zerg to get nerfed so terran still has a chance of winning Again, what is wrong with using ghosts against infestors? the fact that the infestors are bulky and do not take as much AoE from EMP is one thing. i think it was also mentioned previously how useless ghosts become against crackling army even after you take care of the infestors So how many Infestors can be hit, 4-6? That's still enough, we are talking 200/100 for a ghost making 400/600 to 600/900 resources of units useless, how it's not a good trade? And what's more it's pretty easy calculation - would you rather have a dozen of marines in red after a fungal which means 600 minerals nearly lost for nothing or make a Ghost for 200/100 to prevent that? Multiply that by amount of Infestors that can be hit by an EMP and it suddenly becomes 50-60 marines getting their hps down to red or using a single ghost. People keep whining about Infestor's and Fungals so I keep asking what is wrong with Ghosts that they aren't mentioned at all. For 10 perfect clumped up infestors you need just 2 emps. But you're not gonna pull that off in a game, 6 emps should be enough though. (Remember you need to EMP twice if the infestor has more than 175 energy.) I'll try it in my next game, turtle untill they've got that composition and see what will happen. Also I'm wondering, are 3/3 cracklings cost effective against a ghost/marauder/medivac army?
I believe it's 100 energy not 175. Good luck in your games, have a fun EMP hunting.
Also no idea if cracklings are cost effective against that combo but why would you go nearly pure marauder against lings?
On June 19 2012 05:33 etofok wrote:
If zerg spots any sort of 'early stim timing attack' he simply places A spine and you will die to 5 queens w/ lings under spine and being on creep.
But we keep on talking about pure queen drone so far. IF, if zerg spots that attack he may prepare. Do not let him scout it and it's not that hard when he like 2-4 lings on the map and maybe 2 overlords. Keep the majority of marines hidden, kill scouts with the rest.
Also if there is a threat of lings deflecting the attack then after stim make a fac and a reactor with the next 150 gas and attack with marine hellion.
Guys we need to start somewhere to address the problem.
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On June 19 2012 05:37 KawaiiRice wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2012 05:22 Htw wrote:On June 18 2012 07:50 FinestHour wrote:
Ravens suck for tvz. Name a high level terran that uses them consistently and also wins tournaments. Also, only three terrans in the RO16 for Dreamhack? Look at the top 16 for MLG, an obviously much harder tournament than Dreamhack. Don't try to turn the happenings of one tournaments RO16 into an argument. Where the winner says Zerg will beat terran unless the z makes a mistake? And top 4 Zerg at gigabyte Also golden was neural parasiting ravens and reverse hsm/turreting mvpdream at gigabyte. What a trash unit
And yet again, where are the ghosts when we are talking about infestors? I may not know shit but I think Raven has a potential to explore.
On June 19 2012 05:41 KawaiiRice wrote:Show nested quote +On June 19 2012 05:34 beetlelisk wrote:On June 19 2012 04:54 stew_ wrote:On June 19 2012 04:41 beetlelisk wrote:On June 19 2012 04:05 stew_ wrote:On June 19 2012 03:59 beetlelisk wrote:On June 19 2012 03:33 SDQKRambo wrote:
Making a ton of bunkers as terran and playing absolutely defensive with no map presence and making a bunch of queens that hold off everything and contribute to insanely fast creep spread are completely different. Also the OP also wants to find a way to open with a macro style the doesn't straight up to die to a allin, which zerg is now totally safe from if he is competent at all. You seem to be missing the main points of the blog, I suggest you re-read it again.
really? you read this as a strategy request blog? queens, slow lings, slow banes and even infestors are all essentially defensive units, do you really think that there is no way for terran to take a fast 3rd against that? If it's a PF - or even an orbital defended by a few tanks and bunkers - zerg can't engage it before ultras. i see your a zerg so let me tell this to u, do u REALLY think its ok for terran to take PF as 3rd CC ? =free win to zerg here yo i would RLY like to see zerg nerfed,after all my games and from what i seen,it seems hopeless for terran to win any tourneys or win against zerg overall, it requires ALOT of skill,macro,micro,structures from terran side to keep up,while zerg can have fast 3rd, build 4,5 queens and defend it ez against hellion harrass or something like that,like ppl say, zerg just needs to A-move into terran army, drop some EZPZ fungals and win every engagement, also dont forget that zerg's tech switching is million times faster than terran's,like...zerg starts with ling/bane,infestor, terran answers with marine/tank, and that zerg comp does alot of damage,and while that zerg is making a ultra cavern,and when his ling/bane dies (IF it dies) he just spams like 10-15 ultras that pop at once,and ofc terran has to switch to mass marauders and good zergs always know that,and when terran has like equal numbers of marines and marauders, by that time zerg has prob spamed shit lots of corrupters that are gona turn into shit lots of broodlords after his ultra army dies (IF it dies,again), and good terrans should know that,but when they have lots of medivacs,marines,tanks,marauders,theres just not that many supply left to take down the corrupters AND the broodlords,and terran also has to make air upgrades but most terrans would start em AFTER the broodlords are poped, and ofc most times vikings get fungaled aswell and die,so i pretty much want zerg to get nerfed so terran still has a chance of winning Again, what is wrong with using ghosts against infestors? the fact that the infestors are bulky and do not take as much AoE from EMP is one thing. i think it was also mentioned previously how useless ghosts become against crackling army even after you take care of the infestors So how many Infestors can be hit, 4-6? That's still enough, we are talking 200/100 for a ghost making 400/600 to 600/900 resources of units useless, how it's not a good trade? And what's more it's pretty easy calculation - would you rather have a dozen of marines in red after a fungal which means 600 minerals nearly lost for nothing or make a Ghost for 200/100 to prevent that? Multiply that by amount of Infestors that can be hit by an EMP and it suddenly becomes 50-60 marines getting their hps down to red or using a single ghost. People keep whining about Infestor's and Fungals so I keep asking what is wrong with Ghosts that they aren't mentioned at all. oh, also forgot to mention. cloaked ghosts die pretty fast to fungals and speedlings Then you keep your marines close by to aid ghosts in need. And I think it's still a fair trade to sacrifice 1 Ghost for making 4-6 Infestors useless. Or bring 3+ spread out ghosts so zerg has no chance at fungaling them all before they cast EMPs. Sacrifice 1 or 2 and run back with the rest to reuse them later. You can only hit infestors if the Zerg screws up his position. You are lucky to hit one infestor... Let alone multiple rofl
Give me examples please. Either VODs or reps and I am pretty sure it can be proven Terran didn't try hard enough.
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Mvpdream had Viking raven and ghost and got smashed in every big fight. Raven is utter trash and relies on the Zerg having a seizure during the game and clumping every bl for you and not even fungaling ravens as they approach. I've seen some of goldens reps where mma would try hsming with 8+ ravens and kill NOTHING because units are actually (gasp) spread or ravens got fungaled and targeted, or bl got transfused.
How the fk does terrans effort change the fact that there are bls and overseers hovering over infestors
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It's extremely difficult to assemble an effective army to win an engagement against late game Zerg armies with the ghost having been patched as it was. Late game TvZ is devolving into constantly running around his army killing hatcheries while clinging on at home, with very little else. Seeker Missile is strong but is not a reliable spell in the same way storm and fungal are, for reasons which should be obvious - and add to this the difficulty of transitioning to Ravens, which involves waiting until they have 125 energy, and hoping that if you trade armies you don't get run over by his reinforcements while you rebuild and recharge.
It's also unavoidable (to me, at least, after playing both races in Masters) that managing an army consisting of bio, tanks, maybe some vikings, and ravens (not to mention drops trying to kill hatcheries and whatever tech) is significantly more difficult than typical Zerg late game armies.
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On June 19 2012 03:05 Drowsy wrote:
I agree wholeheartedly. Especially about the 6 pool comment; I'm still astonished this horseshit coinflip hasn't been patched out of the game already. Just make it require 2 overlords on the field. I kinda don't mind zerg being a lot more resilient early game than before, but this is combined with insanely strong lategame making things totally broken. Infestors and hive tech units are straight up too damn good.
They should definitely revert snipe nerf for starters.
has this really come to nerfing 6 pool. lololol
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It would be interesting if hsm had more range than fungal and a faster travel time... Still doesn't fix midgame but lategame might be viable then..
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On June 19 2012 05:59 KawaiiRice wrote:
Mvpdream had Viking raven and ghost and got smashed in every big fight. Raven is utter trash and relies on the Zerg having a seizure during the game and clumping every bl for you and not even fungaling ravens as they approach. I've seen some of goldens reps where mma would try hsming with 8+ ravens and kill NOTHING because units are actually (gasp) spread or ravens got fungaled and targeted, or bl got transfused.
I guess Ravens are not meant to be an anti brood lord unit. I wonder about using ravens against lings, banes and mutas though. And not like hsming from 1000 miles away but flying with them close enough to the targeted units so right after launching hsms, hsms get their acceleration and actually kill stuff.
How the fk does terrans effort change the fact that there are bls and overseers hovering over infestors
I'm guessing there is a possibility to draw brood lord attention and fire with some (suicidal) units and coming from a different angle with spread out ghosts to emp infestors.
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On June 19 2012 06:06 KawaiiRice wrote:
It would be interesting if hsm had more range than fungal and a faster travel time... Still doesn't fix midgame but lategame might be viable then..
I really don't believe ravens are supposed to target bls, small and middle sized units rather but the only middle sized units are infestors and those wont let ravens to get close by fungaling them :/
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EPT
