• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 17:01
CEST 23:01
KST 06:01
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 20259Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202577RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18
Community News
EWC 2025 - Replay Pack1Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced25BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams10Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed19
StarCraft 2
General
EWC 2025 - Replay Pack #1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 2025 Power Rank - Esports World Cup 2025 I offer completely free coaching services
Tourneys
FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $10,000 live event Esports World Cup 2025 $25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced $5,000 WardiTV Summer Championship 2025 WardiTV Mondays
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 484 Magnetic Pull Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune
Brood War
General
Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced [Update] ShieldBattery: 2025 Redesign Dewalt's Show Matches in China BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China CSL Xiamen International Invitational [CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers [G] Mineral Boosting Does 1 second matter in StarCraft?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Total Annihilation Server - TAForever [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
UK Politics Mega-thread US Politics Mega-thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Eight Anniversary as a TL…
Mizenhauer
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 731 users

The Stuff of Champions

Blogs > Blazinghand
Post a Reply
1 2 Next All
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25551 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-15 21:44:01
June 15 2012 14:02 GMT
#1

The Stuff of Champions






Table of Contents
Strategy vs Mechanics
NesTea's Foresight
Mvp's Flank






Strategy vs Mechanics Top

It's hard to follow the GSL without knowing about (Wiki)Mvp and (Wiki)NesTea. These LG-IM players hold between the two of them seven GSL trophies-- they've been competitive players since the beginning. Even in times of balance whine and blizzard nerfs, they represent their respective races with passion, bringing home the cup countless times. They have their streaks and slumps, adding drama. NesTea took the crown without losing a game in July, then "slumped" by getting eliminated in the Ro16 and Ro32 recently (he was back in Code S by season end, of course). Mvp crushed with his hilarious TvP run last season and had a slump of his own, all the way down to in Code A last year. They are always near the top, though, whether they're winning or losing.

[image loading]
An unmodified press photo of the two champions.

Fans will tell you that Mvp and NesTea post less entertaining results at foreign events. Sure, Mvp will win an event or show up in a finals here or there, and NesTea makes his fair share of deep runs-- but something's missing in their overseas event play. People chalk it up to a lack of endurance coupled with jetlag, as well as these players having a distinctive playstyle. You see, the IM Champions are masters of analysis and preparation. In fact, it explains why both of them are strongest in the mirror matchup. Give Mvp (or Nestea) a week to analyze your style (typical for GSL bracket play) and he will brutally crush you in a mirror series. Beyond the basic mechanics needed to control armies, TvT is a matchup that hinges a lot of decisionmaking, both at a macro and micro level. Entire wars are fought over tank positions, catching players unsieged, or even the perfect stim attack that hits at an unsafe part of a build order. ZvZ is the ultimate extension of the larvae mechanic, with most of the early game being dictated by players' larvae allocations-- a single larva, a single drone or zergling pair, can make the difference between winning or losing on the spot.

[image loading]
Pictured: One Larva making the difference.

That isn't to say these guys are at the ceiling of mechanical skill and all that matters is strategy. The mirror images to Mvp and NesTea are arguably the most famous and stylistic players of their respective races, and in my mind the real rivals for both IM Champions: (Wiki)MarineKingPrime and (Wiki)MVPDongRaeGu. MKP and DRG represent the "other" playstyle, one that exemplifies superior mechanics. This isn't to say that MKP and DRG don't have amazing strategies prepared (they do) or that NesTea and Mvp don't have amazing mechanics (they do). What's clear is that two of these players are stronger strategically and two of them are stronger mechanically. It's the reason MKP and DRG roll face at MLG but, despite making deep runs in GSL, never close it out as well or often as Mvp and NesTea regularly do. The format for MLG favors exemplary mechanics, and the format for GSL favors spending a week perfecting your TvP mass BC build for Metropolis that literally nobody has seen before.

[image loading]
Pictured: Mvp doing his thang.





NesTea's Foresight Top

A microcosm of how the two playstyles differ is found in the 2012 GSL Season 1 Code S Ro16 Group D games between NesTea and DRG. For those of us who don't remember, this was the Group of Death with NesTea, DRG, MKP, and Genius. Yeah. That Group. So, the first series was between NesTea and DRG. After a nail-biting first two games, we come upon a final game on Antiga Shipyard. NesTea busts out a 10 pool speedling attack. DRG holds it with his 15 hatch , and Nestea executes a move that makes me metaphorically crap my pants.

Due to the timing of the larvae cycles, DRG is about to have more speedlings than NesTea, and will be able to push him back to his base. NesTea, anticipating not only this speedling production, but the burst of production he'll get from a larvae inject (since he's on 1 hatch, 1 queen vs DRG's 2 hatches, 0 queens), starts a baneling nest and peels 4 zerglings off into DRG's third as he pushes into DRG's nat, masking a baneling flank that won't take place for another 90 seconds. In ling-bane ZvZ, 90 seconds is a lifetime, an epoch, an eternity.

[image loading]
Pictured: NesTea's foresight.

As NesTea predicts, with perfect precision, DRG's lings come out, forcing him back until his spawn-larvae lings appear, and then he chases DRG back out onto the map. DRG has no overlords in the area outside his own natural. The baneling nest finishes and the four banelings finish. The four banelings step out directly into the path of all of DRG's lings. DRG has a split second to react to the blips on his minimap. If, at this point, I told you he lost his army, nobody who hadn't seen the series would doubt me. DRG didn't lose his army, though. In that fraction of a second, he split his speedlings and flowed around the banelings, escaping to the protection of his spine crawlers. DRG's ultimate mechanics countered NesTea's ultimate tactics. In the space of a split second, the very core, the soul of the glorious struggle between these two players was laid bare before all, and the casters couldn't stop screaming.

+ Show Spoiler [some screen caps of the action] +

[image loading]
*drool*


This intense planning and brilliant strategy of NesTea, pitted against the unstoppable mechanics and indomitable will of DRG, made for a great series. Whether you're a fan of NesTea's brilliant style or DRG's superb control, it's moments like these that define our favorite pros, and bring out their flaws and their virtues.





Mvp's Flank Top

I think we each felt differently about the conclusion of the 2012 GSL Season 2 Code S Finals. If you haven't seen it yet, do so here before reading further. You should watch it first for two reasons: one, I'd hate to spoil it for you, and two, it's a damned good series. Drama, Action, Comedy, Romance-- it's amazing. The final game was really something else (for better and for worse), and I think after that play-by-play of NesTea's flank, Mvp deserves a little time too.

Mvp, like NesTea, was backed into a corner, in the final game of an important series. Like NesTea, he chose a cheese build that led to a very micro-intensive early game. Unlike NesTea, however, he wasn't playing a player known for legendary control. Stay your blades, friends! Squirtle, of course, is an exemplary player. His strategies and mechanics are top-notch, making him one of the best Protosses in the world. He was on his way to a Code S championship during his debut season. This guy was no lightweight-- and so eyebrows were raised as Mvp's BO for game 7 became apparent. Very raised.

[image loading]
In This Picture: Mvp presents his solution to the Protoss Deathball.

When Mvp is forced to pull back after Squirtle fends off his initial bunker pressure, he realizes he'll need an edge in the inevitable battle at his proxied raxes. Against a zealot and 2 stalkers, you need an impossibly perfect engage to prevent the protoss from retreating and trading stalker shield for marine life. Having lost a couple scvs and several marines, Mvp is in a tight spot in the final game of the finals of the most prestigious Sc2 tournament in the world. Squirtle is now stable and ahead 14 probes to 8. It would seem the 11/11 cheese has failed-- all hope for Mvp is lost. But the crafty Terran has one final trick in his bag: he sets up a flank, and he does it just like NesTea did.

[image loading]
Marines go south, away from the Rax.

Squirtle finally has enough gateway units to move out and attack or maybe camp Mvp's proxied rax. Mvp takes the 4 marines he has out on the map, and rather than combining them with the units coming out of his rax, he sends them to the south, away from his production. He rallies his rax northwards, building up marines behind them. As Squirtle moves out to engage the production facilities, Mvp draws him forwards, then flanks from the south with his 4 marines, picking off 2 of Squirtle's 3 units. There is no room to micro-- even for a player as skilled as Squirtle. The jaws of fate clamp shut about him, and wolf down 4 of his 6 precious army food. Without his crucial gateway units, the ST Protoss crumbles under the continued pressure.

[image loading]
Getting your stalkers outmaneuvered by Marines is sad times ;(((

Maybe DRG would have microed his way out. Maybe he would have avoided the situation altogether. Maybe he wouldn't have even made the finals (which was the case, that season). Maybe this sort of move is the least-discussed thing on any Starcraft Strategy forum. How many articles on build orders, compositions, and micro have you read without learning something like this? Maybe this is obvious-- maybe it wins GSLs nonetheless.

Maybe this is luck.

Maybe, though, this is the stuff of champions.

[image loading]






This is part of Blazinghand's Blog Series covering The GSL. If you enjoyed this article, check out his articles on Mvp's Path to the Finals in GSL 2012 Season 2 or Hack's Progamer Pride.



****
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
StiX
Profile Joined September 2010
Netherlands220 Posts
June 15 2012 14:14 GMT
#2
Sick blog, sick players, thx!
"Think for yourself, question authority" Timothy Leary
SecondHand
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States329 Posts
June 15 2012 14:38 GMT
#3
That was an amazing blog blazinghand :D

But Mvp has actually done very well in foreign tournaments besides MLG Winter Arena.

He won Blizzcon, MLG Anaheim and got 4th at Providence
Ladder more, win less
Aunvilgod
Profile Joined December 2011
2653 Posts
June 15 2012 14:44 GMT
#4
Wohooo IM fighting!
ilovegroov | Blizzards mapmaker(s?) suck ass | #1 Protoss hater
Synwave
Profile Joined July 2009
United States2803 Posts
June 15 2012 15:02 GMT
#5
Great blog!
I especially liked the insights into nestea's zvz.
♞Nerdrage is the cause of global warming♞
Qraka
Profile Joined July 2011
United States17 Posts
June 15 2012 16:04 GMT
#6
Nice write up. Look forward to the next one.
DawN883
Profile Joined November 2011
Sweden558 Posts
June 15 2012 16:27 GMT
#7
Nice blog!
If the dead are not raised, Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die
sickoota
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada918 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-15 16:29:10
June 15 2012 16:27 GMT
#8
I'm not sure how fair it is to characterize MVP as a "strategy over mechanics" kind of player. He's mostly known for doing extremely boring average builds but executing everything to perfection. MVP doesn't do bad at foreign tournaments either, he's won like every one he's been to with the exception of that MLG arena that was in the middle of his wrist troubles.
I could spend a while with that smile
Sikly
Profile Joined June 2011
United States413 Posts
June 15 2012 16:43 GMT
#9
On June 16 2012 01:27 sickoota wrote:
I'm not sure how fair it is to characterize MVP as a "strategy over mechanics" kind of player. He's mostly known for doing extremely boring average builds but executing everything to perfection. MVP doesn't do bad at foreign tournaments either, he's won like every one he's been to with the exception of that MLG arena that was in the middle of his wrist troubles.


In the first few GSL seasons that may have been true, but recently MVP, and especially during last season's GSL, has had to win every match-up through strategy. The poor condition of his wrists have really hurt his ability to practice and have those perfect mechanics he had during the spring and summer of last year. His series against both Naniwa and Parting were perfect examples of his championship caliber planning causing him to just roll his opponents, ones in which he was the underdog against.
chambertin
Profile Joined August 2011
United States1704 Posts
June 15 2012 16:48 GMT
#10
So great, and even better... such an excellent series of blogs

Thank you
"I know one thing, that I know nothing" - Socrates?
GoSuChicken
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
Germany1726 Posts
June 15 2012 17:37 GMT
#11
Awesome Blog man!
CosmicSpiral
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States15275 Posts
June 15 2012 17:38 GMT
#12
Flanks are a tactic, not a strategy. I also disagree with your assessment of the differences between MvP/Nestea and Dongraegu/MarineKing. MarineKing is one of the few true stylistic terrans left in the competitive scene and all four rely on mechanics and strategy in different ratios to win.
WriterWovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muß man schweigen.
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25551 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-15 17:50:24
June 15 2012 17:47 GMT
#13
On June 16 2012 02:38 CosmicSpiral wrote:
Flanks are a tactic, not a strategy.


A technically true point, but a non sequitur, as I never refer to flanks as a strategy, and in fact explicitly state they are a tactic.
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
CosmicSpiral
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States15275 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-15 17:56:07
June 15 2012 17:54 GMT
#14
On June 16 2012 02:47 Blazinghand wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 16 2012 02:38 CosmicSpiral wrote:
Flanks are a tactic, not a strategy.


A technically true point, but a non sequitur, as I never refer to flanks as a strategy, and in fact explicitly state they are a tactic.


Well then I'm not really sure what the point of the examples are. I thought you were emphasizing the strategical aspect of their play.
WriterWovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muß man schweigen.
Blazinghand *
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States25551 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-15 17:56:08
June 15 2012 17:55 GMT
#15
On June 16 2012 02:54 CosmicSpiral wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 16 2012 02:47 Blazinghand wrote:
On June 16 2012 02:38 CosmicSpiral wrote:
Flanks are a tactic, not a strategy.


A technically true point, but a non sequitur, as I never refer to flanks as a strategy, and in fact explicitly state they are a tactic.


Well then I'm not really sure what the point of the examples are.


They're cool stuff I saw Mvp and NesTea do! Cool thinky tactic things that aren't based on mechanics. ;_; isn't that good enough? Can't something just be awesome?

EDIT: like, there's a reason this is in Blogs and not Sc2 Strategy. This is supposed to be fun ;_;
When you stare into the iCCup, the iCCup stares back.
TL+ Member
TheBamf
Profile Joined June 2011
Denmark366 Posts
June 15 2012 18:04 GMT
#16
I freaking loved this article, but I will say in defense of MVP's mechanics, that many players including MKP has said that he has excellent or the best, late-game macro which is why he wins.

But I like the comparisons non-the-less! This was a fun and engaging read!
IM.Nestea | IM.MvP | MvP.DongRaeGu. | Genius | ST.Parting I SlayerS.MMA
CosmicSpiral
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States15275 Posts
June 15 2012 18:18 GMT
#17
On June 16 2012 02:55 Blazinghand wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 16 2012 02:54 CosmicSpiral wrote:
On June 16 2012 02:47 Blazinghand wrote:
On June 16 2012 02:38 CosmicSpiral wrote:
Flanks are a tactic, not a strategy.


A technically true point, but a non sequitur, as I never refer to flanks as a strategy, and in fact explicitly state they are a tactic.


Well then I'm not really sure what the point of the examples are.


They're cool stuff I saw Mvp and NesTea do! Cool thinky tactic things that aren't based on mechanics. ;_; isn't that good enough? Can't something just be awesome?

EDIT: like, there's a reason this is in Blogs and not Sc2 Strategy. This is supposed to be fun ;_;


If I didn't like the read, I wouldn't be responding to it.
WriterWovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muß man schweigen.
Bazzyrick
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom361 Posts
June 15 2012 19:01 GMT
#18
Amazing blog and perfectly highlights why Nestea and MVP are my tied favorite players, and also why tied behind them are MKP and DRG. I still remember Nestea's Lair rush to put 3 spines on Overlord creep outside of a Protoss' forge fast expand. After annihilating the entire protoss expansion he had already transitioned into Hydras for the inevitable Void Ray defense. By this time, Nestea was on 3-4 bases to the 1 base Protoss. I don't remember who that Protoss was but my god. It was so beautiful.

This is such an amazingly complex game, nerd chills are a very real thing.
You exist because we allow it and you will end because we demand it.
LemonyTang
Profile Joined March 2011
United Kingdom428 Posts
June 15 2012 19:03 GMT
#19
Thanks. I enjoyed this. IM fighting
Mvp #1
gosuRob
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States319 Posts
June 15 2012 19:15 GMT
#20
I wonder who'd win if MKP and MVP combined into one person, and so did DRG and nestea.
Rules? There aren't many rules. You fight mean, you win mean. It takes a certain someone
1 2 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
18:00
RO8 Round Robin Group - Day 4
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
ZZZero.O276
LiquipediaDiscussion
FEL
09:00
Cracow 2025
Reynor vs ClemLIVE!
RotterdaM2675
ComeBackTV 2250
IndyStarCraft 615
WardiTV440
CranKy Ducklings171
3DClanTV 155
EnkiAlexander 110
Rex67
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 2777
IndyStarCraft 627
Rex 70
JuggernautJason8
StarCraft: Brood War
ZZZero.O 217
NaDa 9
Dota 2
capcasts266
LuMiX2
League of Legends
JimRising 332
febbydoto8
Counter-Strike
fl0m2676
Fnx 2298
Stewie2K836
flusha437
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox2110
Mew2King1610
AZ_Axe293
Westballz12
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu589
Khaldor347
Other Games
tarik_tv5558
Grubby2988
summit1g1566
gofns996
mouzStarbuck141
Sick43
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick3146
StarCraft 2
angryscii 17
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• davetesta25
• Adnapsc2 8
• intothetv
• Kozan
• sooper7s
• Migwel
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• IndyKCrew
StarCraft: Brood War
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota22288
• WagamamaTV1043
League of Legends
• Doublelift4443
Other Games
• imaqtpie1664
• Shiphtur466
Upcoming Events
Wardi Open
13h 59m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 12h
WardiTV European League
1d 18h
Online Event
1d 20h
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Korean StarCraft League
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL 20 Non-Korean Championship
BSL 20 Team Wars
FEL Cracov 2025
CC Div. A S7
Underdog Cup #2
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

ASL Season 20: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
WardiTV Summer 2025
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.