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Alright, so after getting unbanned from TL, I began playing more and more SC2. I am a toss, and my best match up is by far is PvT. I use more or less the same openning in every game, and every time I do this build, all the terrans whine, saying I'm an all inning F^$%*T. So I figured I would get your guys opinions.
I simply don't take a fast expo, and just do a 3 gate robo. Once I have 3 stalkers, 4 zealots, and a WP, I push out. If they fast expo'd I can usually just win the game right there. I drop the zealots in their main, and have the stalkers poke at the front. I ALWAYS have a proxy pylon, so depending on their defence I either reinforce with more zealots or sentries. No matter what, I take my natural right after I push out with this small army. I don't do this attack to win the game out right, but just to do some damage. Even if I do very little damage, I still can get my economy up and going, and I use the WP as constant harrassment.
Would you guys consider this all inning? I can win the game before the 10 minute mark a lot of the time, but can still win the game if it goes into the late game. Just want some opinions.
Much Luv,
DJ Wilma ♥
 
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United States10584 Posts
That's not an all-in as long as you are constantly making probes and plan to take an expo behind the attack. If you've cut probes and stuff, then yet this is an all-in. Normally we see people 3 gate - expo - robo. It all depends on how many workers you cut and what you use your chrono on.
Try learning 1 gate core expo to play a more macro game.
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On June 08 2012 09:35 FlaShFTW wrote:
Try learning 1 gate core expo to play a more macro game.
Well if the strategy is working, why stop?
I don't ever cut probes, no point, since I plan on expoing
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United States10584 Posts
On June 08 2012 09:37 DJWilma wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2012 09:35 FlaShFTW wrote:
Try learning 1 gate core expo to play a more macro game. Well if the strategy is working, why stop? I don't ever cut probes, no point, since I plan on expoing
The reason is, to get better. This silly push of yours thats killing players in your league right now will never work in the higher leagues. So time to learn some macro games that will actually help you out compared to this small push.
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If you are having fun there is no need to stop. If you want to try to play high level games in the future, then the only way to get there is to play in a high level style until you are good enough to beat people with it.
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Staying on one base and trying to kill your opponent while delaying your expansion by a lot is an allin. Nothing says that you can't do allins, but that's what it's defined as. So, doing that some is fine, just like I marine/scv allin some or 1/1/1 some, but I'd also learn how to use macro openings. And besides, even Blizzard says that Protoss is stronger in the lategame, so why try to rush it? You have more of an advantage then against Terran compared with mid game.
Also, 2-base pressure like a 6-gate would be worth looking into.
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On June 08 2012 09:37 DJWilma wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2012 09:35 FlaShFTW wrote:
Try learning 1 gate core expo to play a more macro game. Well if the strategy is working, why stop? I don't ever cut probes, no point, since I plan on expoing
This is a pitfall that a lot of players get into. "I'm winning with a strategy, therefore it is good and I should keep doing it." It seems like you are playing to win, rather than to improve. If you just want to win, then sure, you can do whatever you want if it is working. However, if you want to improve and move up, then you need to learn macro games. I would wager that if your push is held off without the Terran taking too much damage, then you are probably behind.
It seems like you are doing a half-baked all in. A one base timing attack where you don't cut probes. Your attack is weaker than an all in, but it's not as strong as one. Going in the middle is usually a bad idea since your attack will usually be too weak to do any damage against stronger players and your macro would be weaker than if you expanded. Worst of both worlds. Either all-in, or learn the play a good macro game. Don't try to do both and have a weaker version of both of them.
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What you described is an all-in. Stop trying to justify it by saying I do damage so therefore its not all in.
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To the above posters, playing a "high level style" isn't the same as doing blind abusive macro builds without reacting at all to what your opponent is doing. WP harass should be taxing your multitask a lot more than sitting around spending money perfectly with no sense of timing.
Of course it's not an all-in just because the losing players complained? They also called you a faggot, but you didn't make this blog with questions about your sexuality, so why take seriously their claim that you're all-inning? It's just basic tilted ladder players. But in the interest of improving, there's a difference between winning and being good at a matchup, so I'd think about playing with other builds and styles, especially other ways to be aggressive.
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On June 08 2012 09:37 DJWilma wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2012 09:35 FlaShFTW wrote:
Try learning 1 gate core expo to play a more macro game. Well if the strategy is working, why stop? I don't ever cut probes, no point, since I plan on expoing
This strategy won't work at higher levels, if you want proof you can play me and I'll show you why. A 1-gate expo is a much better opening build order than the one your using currently.
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Unless you are playing as macro oriented as possible, you're either playing an all in style or inefficiently. So either you are playing all in or you are playing inefficient. Its likely a combination of both.
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United States10584 Posts
On June 08 2012 10:18 oBlade wrote:
To the above posters, playing a "high level style" isn't the same as doing blind abusive macro builds without reacting at all to what your opponent is doing. WP harass should be taxing your multitask a lot more than sitting around spending money perfectly with no sense of timing.
Of course it's not an all-in just because the losing players complained? They also called you a faggot, but you didn't make this blog with questions about your sexuality, so why take seriously their claim that you're all-inning? It's just basic tilted ladder players. But in the interest of improving, there's a difference between winning and being good at a matchup, so I'd think about playing with other builds and styles, especially other ways to be aggressive.
No, but the build he is demonstrating is clearly not a high level of play. and if he cant properly macro at the higher levels, what good will micro be if he won't have any units? If you are working on just beating people with the way you are, then fine, continue. But if you want to get better, learn standard openings like the 1 gate expo build and stuff so that once you reach those higher levels, you'll be prepared instead of throwing something pitiful at them like this semi-all-in.
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You are doing a 1 base push into a late second expansion, If you don't do enough damage with your push then you will be too far behind and lose the game, if you play good players and this is all you do game after game then you will sooner or later start losing with it since they will take an ultra fast second and then just defend until you have to expand and then they will roll you over.
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Only macro openers work in higher leagues? You've never seen a pro allin? You've never seen a pro cheese? I'm honestly confused as to most of the above posters sentiments
Just keep refining the build, I think its a cool idea
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On June 08 2012 11:08 BreakfastBurrito wrote:
Only macro openers work in higher leagues? You've never seen a pro allin? You've never seen a pro cheese? I'm honestly confused as to most of the above posters sentiments
Just keep refining the build, I think its a cool idea
Well it's not a good all-in. It's half-assed because you're expanding behind it and not trying to win the game. So it puts you behind.
So unless the OP is doing a harass build to kill workers & equalize the economy, or doing a very clever timing to put the player behind in certain tech/infrastructure/ect, it isn't a very good build.
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On June 08 2012 11:08 BreakfastBurrito wrote:
Only macro openers work in higher leagues? You've never seen a pro allin? You've never seen a pro cheese? I'm honestly confused as to most of the above posters sentiments
Just keep refining the build, I think its a cool idea
Problem is that he needs to mix it up, right now it sounds like this is all he does every game thus it becomes too predicable.
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So many bad posts.. It works, keep doing it till it doesn't and enjoy yourself
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On June 08 2012 11:01 FlaShFTW wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2012 10:18 oBlade wrote:
To the above posters, playing a "high level style" isn't the same as doing blind abusive macro builds without reacting at all to what your opponent is doing. WP harass should be taxing your multitask a lot more than sitting around spending money perfectly with no sense of timing.
Of course it's not an all-in just because the losing players complained? They also called you a faggot, but you didn't make this blog with questions about your sexuality, so why take seriously their claim that you're all-inning? It's just basic tilted ladder players. But in the interest of improving, there's a difference between winning and being good at a matchup, so I'd think about playing with other builds and styles, especially other ways to be aggressive. No, but the build he is demonstrating is clearly not a high level of play. and if he cant properly macro at the higher levels, what good will micro be if he won't have any units? If you are working on just beating people with the way you are, then fine, continue. But if you want to get better, learn standard openings like the 1 gate expo build and stuff so that once you reach those higher levels, you'll be prepared instead of throwing something pitiful at them like this semi-all-in.
He is not going to go instantaneously from "I am beating everyone with the first attack in this build" to "I am losing every game because I can't build units."
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All-ins rely on doing damage to equalize for your delayed expansion. After your attack, if you are behind because your attack didn't do damage, then it's a form of an all-in.
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its not all in, but with the current meta game its definatly a very aggressive opening. Lets say you were to do that against someone who 1 rax which is standard and you didnt do damage and then took an expo youd be pretty bad in economy. i would at least encorage you to try some quicker expand builds as they can be just as fun. glhf man
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EPT
