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On May 12 2012 00:07 MaGariShun wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2012 21:43 Sethronu wrote:On May 11 2012 20:42 MaGariShun wrote:
The problem that most non-university teachers have, is that they think you owe them something. They feel offended if you are not living up to your full potential, but don't realize that it's your own decision if you just don't give two flying fucks. They somehow always believe that everything you do and they don't like is on purpose to piss them off. Some teachers just care too much.
Then there is the other kind of teacher who are just assholes. They hate their job and if you are making their job even harder, they will hate you too
Actually, the problem that the most high school students have, is that they think they can do whatever the fuck they please and get away with it. If you're making a teacher's job even harder just for the hell of it, and do not respect the teacher, I really have no sympathy for any kind of bad or 'biased' marks you might be getting. These days teachers have very little power over obnoxious students with shittiest attitudes possible, so scoring them down is pretty much the only thing they CAN do. I don't know how can anyone have sympathy for a guy who openly says he is disrupting classes on purpose; I certainly don't. purposely disrupting classes is wrong, but there is punishment for it. The grades you get from exams and homeworks however should never be influenced by your behaviour in class. Teachers don't have to "do" anything against students with shitty attitudes, that's exactly my point. Give them the grades they deserve for their work and if their behaviour is inappropriate there are ways to punish them (call the parents, detention, separate grades for behaviour etc.). Not doing as much as you could is certainly not "bad behaviour" and up to the student himself.
It depends on what kind of parents the student has, but most of the time 'calling the parents' results in the said parents saying what a bright and lovely kid their boy is, and how the teacher should cut him some slack and not be mean. And what do you mean teachers don't have to "do" anything against students with shitty attitudes?! If a guy is being a dick in the middle of class, not paying attention to the teacher, disturbing other students with his bullshit - the teacher does kinda have to deal with it in some way, it's just that they don't really have the tools to do so.
If you read the OP closely, it's pretty obvious that the main issue isn't the fact that the guy isn't "giving his 100% to the assignments" - it's the fact that he has 0 respect for the teacher, to the point where he outright says "people disrespect this teacher, especially me always pushing her buttons and talking back."
This is how life works.
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Anyway school doesnt mean shit. I quit university on final year, and i went back to my home town to run my family company. Now i have 2 more companies, Im 23 years old and my owners equity is already a 6 number figure. Last week I saw that same teacher and he still hates for me being lazy and succesful. Owned
You mean, this is how life works if you have a business your parents pass on to you after you fail at school? Sure, some people do get lucky and become successful with minimal effort, but damn this is some pretty bad life advice right there. :p You don't have to be an amazing student to achieve something in life, but it's pretty unlikely you'll get anywhere beyond mediocrity without working your butt off for it, unless you're spoonfed 'success' by your parents or whatever without having to do anything for it yourself.
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The truth about English classes is that everybody is awful at it and there's no rigor at all. If she's telling you that you suck she's probably the first person in the entire world who's told you the truth.
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When I read this thread I'm truly disappointed by the TL community. The OP of this post is basically asking a question and trying to create some kind of debate on a precise topic.
"Has this sort of thing happened to anyone before? Is it right for teachers to mark down work because of effort and you as a person? Should I talk to someone about this?"
But most people in the last 2 pages are only here judging him, saying how much he is a cocky bastard and should stfu because it's his fault. You should all be ashamed .... Why are you so eager on judging him? Who do you think you are? So you don't appreciate the attitude he seems to be having in class .... so???? How is this any relevant to the question that is asked? If you can't just stay in the topic don't post ... No one gives a crap about what you think of the way he behaves in class, seriously NO ONE!
I basically posted an answer here (go read page 2 if you're curious about it) because, believe it or not, this is a subject that's been interesting me a lot considering my younger brother and I have very similar profiles and I've been trough this kind of situation in high school (and he still is). And I actually value people of TL's opinion because most of the time it leads to constructive thoughts. However on this subject you're all pointing at the guy without giving any thought to the initial question.
Just don't post if you don't think this is a relevant topic, the post will die within a day and you won't have to here about it again. Or maybe there's some kind of malicious need you have to belittle the guy so it somehow makes you feel you're a better person.
I'm usually not the "defending poor and oppressed people" kind of guy but seeing how a simple debate/questioning can turn into massive flaming, on something TOTALLY OFF TOPIC by the way, is just sad.
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Or maybe we just want the guy to realize that being an ass to anyone, yet alone people who are older and wiser than you such as your teachers, is not good for his future and instead of being bitter and angry about it he should take a look at himself and see if perhaps change his attitude?
If you want to create a debate on a 'precise topic' without having to listen to personal advise or criticism, leave personal details out of it. Don't make a topic, "my teacher is marking me down because i'm an ass to her", make the topic, "is it right for a teacher to mark down students based on their behaviour". Consider the subject of this thread has "ME" in it, I don't see how can you say comments aimed at OP's behaviour rather than rhetoric of the post alone are 'unwarranted' - and hey, what you said goes both ways; if no one truly gives a crap about posts telling the OP that he should stfu and not be a cocky bastard, well, don't read them and don't respond to them?
By the way, being critical of someone doesn't necessarily imply malice or 'a need to belittle the guy'. I'm pretty sure most people who had told the OP that being respectful to teachers isn't a bad idea in general had nothing but his future well-being in mind. And how is it 'off topic', again?
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you sound like a spoiled brat tbh
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On May 11 2012 21:22 kzdanze wrote:Show nested quote +On May 11 2012 21:19 tofucake wrote:
Did you just complain that philosophy was too philosophical? There is a line between philosophical and just complete crackhead. She would debate anything you say. The chairs are blue.... I'm serious.
Seems strange. A teacher trying to get students to think, "inside" and "outside" of the box, about the world they live in. Your line between philosophical and "crackhead" maybe much different than your teacher's. Granted your teacher has had oh......a shit ton more schooling and life experience than you (though that is not always definitive when trying to understand differences of opinion between age ranges).
edit 1- not trying to berate OP. Just trying to point out that you are a student (learner) and she is a teacher (instructor). Once you've passed through her class, you can choose to never look back; but while in that class it's best to do your best, be respectful, and learn.
edit 2- OP I am NOT directing this at you. But I have heard that children in Australian schools can tend to be very rude (though truth be told, I think this is a worldwide event I think rather than an "Aussie" issue). I found an article that I found to very interesting. Rude Students Destroy Teaching
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Ha, I had a geometry teacher in 8th grade who got pissed off that I kept missing class for math competitions (I was taking math at the high school while in middle school). So, what ended up happening is that she started randomly marking off answers as wrong even when they were right, to drop my grade saying "oh, I'll fix that grading mistake" but never doing so. Funny thing is I was #57 or so at the nationals in mathcounts that year, and somehow was getting a D- in her geometry class lol.
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On May 12 2012 02:02 Emix_Squall wrote:
When I read this thread I'm truly disappointed by the TL community. The OP of this post is basically asking a question and trying to create some kind of debate on a precise topic.
"Has this sort of thing happened to anyone before? Is it right for teachers to mark down work because of effort and you as a person? Should I talk to someone about this?"
But most people in the last 2 pages are only here judging him, saying how much he is a cocky bastard and should stfu because it's his fault. You should all be ashamed .... Why are you so eager on judging him? Who do you think you are? So you don't appreciate the attitude he seems to be having in class .... so???? How is this any relevant to the question that is asked? If you can't just stay in the topic don't post ... No one gives a crap about what you think of the way he behaves in class, seriously NO ONE!
I basically posted an answer here (go read page 2 if you're curious about it) because, believe it or not, this is a subject that's been interesting me a lot considering my younger brother and I have very similar profiles and I've been trough this kind of situation in high school (and he still is). And I actually value people of TL's opinion because most of the time it leads to constructive thoughts. However on this subject you're all pointing at the guy without giving any thought to the initial question.
Just don't post if you don't think this is a relevant topic, the post will die within a day and you won't have to here about it again. Or maybe there's some kind of malicious need you have to belittle the guy so it somehow makes you feel you're a better person.
I'm usually not the "defending poor and oppressed people" kind of guy but seeing how a simple debate/questioning can turn into massive flaming, on something TOTALLY OFF TOPIC by the way, is just sad.
Oh right, if some random 12 year old comes on the forums and starts a thread on "how his sis' is bein a hoe yo", we should restrain from pointing out the idiocy of his post and simply be nice with him and create a debate we have no interest in.
Facts are that OP is probably just terrible, period. I was a lazy ass student and many teachers got mad at me because I could obtain the highest grades with no effort, but my results never changed, and when they did it's simply because everyone fucks up from time to time.
A respectful attitude and an open mind can resolve 99% of any student-teacher issues.
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Not as bad as mine. I did wonderful on all my English assignments, yet failed due to attendance. ATTENDANCE. Please tell me what the fuck attendance has to do with writing good essays? MEH
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Is it RIGHT for teachers to mark students based on effort and attitude?
I think asking "is it right?" is the wrong approach; the classroom isn't concerned with "right" or "wrong." You should be asking yourself, "What can I do to show my teacher that I don't deserve the grades she's giving me?"
The latter relies on a.) making it clear you are putting effort into your assignments (note: I am not saying that you should use big words or what-not, but showing her that you cared enough about the assignment to put effort into not only the content but also its presentation goes a long way), and b.) listening and respecting her.
There are tons of teachers in HS who aren't fit for being teachers, but tbh, even they should be treated with respect. They are figures of authority; you will have to deal with people you don't think deserve to be in their positions all your life, so you might as well get started on it. Don't talk back to them; disagree with them, sure, but don't ever give them the impression you think you are too good for the class and that you know everything they have to teach already unless you have ... well, a certain charm to you (which I don't think you do) and they have a good humor and/or you have a good relationship/rapport with them. There are ways to "talk back" without getting on your teacher's nerve, and there are ways to be inattentive without annoying your teacher.
HS is all about jumping through hoops. Faster you realize that, the smoother your HS career will go.
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Ok being serious, this has happened to me in both pre highschool and in one class in highschool. I was a lazy ass minimal effort ftw guy. In the 8th grade my english teacher failed me since well, she didnt quite like me. I was arrogant, the class clown in a sense and always talking back. Next year we got a different teacher, he noticed my complete lack of interest in the class and asked me why(first one to ever do such a thing) i said it was simply too easy and showing up listening to other people studying single words and shit was below me.
He said "fair enough, try the national test for your grade, if you get an A you can keep the grade and dont have to show up for class" so i took it and got an A without much effort(thank you internet and videogames) and he came to me asking me if i wanted to take the 9th year and i said sure, same deal applied there. This went on until i got to take the test for third year highschool english(still in the 8th grade) got A's until this one since it involved reading a bunch of books which i didn't wanna do so i got a B- trying to analyze a book via wikipedia.
The point is, he did me a huge favor. He didn't have to. He could've just gone with the state issued program and let me sitt there, stare at the wall and eventually start to hate me, and lower my grades because of it. Point being, nobody has to do you any favors, they don't owe you anything. And teaching anything below university(atleast in Scandinavia) pays like shit, you are completely locked into a government issued corricilum and any attempt at being refreshing and original is firmly shut down by your superiors who simply point to the state issued corricilum and plans. So the whole dead poet's society teacher is an extremelly rare breed, and usually young. Once in the job for a while you just lose your passion since well you aren't allowed to utilize it.
What im trying to say is you are on your own in your school years, even in primary and highschool. In University it is even more so, nobody is gonna give a shit if you fail whereas in High school etc there MIGHT be someone who notices and tries to help. But in University? Nope, nothing. Your on your own. You get sick and miss a class? Sucks to be you hope you know someone who takes notes. Your sick and miss a test? Sucks to be you you're either gonna fail or have to retake it in 6 months. You fail to deliver a mandatory assignment on time, that only counts for 1/100th of the grade? Sucks to be you, you've failed the class. In highschool when someone failed a test you could try it again like a week later, if you had a decent teacher you could retry it like four times.
This is a good lesson for you, one i wished i had learned earlier since it would've given me better studying habits(I'm in my last year of University now). Nobody is gonna help you out if you're an ass. And nobody HAS to help you either. And you cannot challenge those in power when you have no power yourself, you have 0 leverage as a student. You are nothing. Hence getting good grades isn't just about studying, it's about playing ball and doing what is asked of you.
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On May 12 2012 05:48 CecilSunkure wrote:
Not as bad as mine. I did wonderful on all my English assignments, yet failed due to attendance. ATTENDANCE. Please tell me what the fuck attendance has to do with writing good essays? MEH
Been there, i was lucky with a good teacher later on but, its because the government says you should have X% attendance, so they dont really have a choice but to fail your ass.
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Considering the quality of your English in the first message... I'm surprised you got a 6.5, I would have failed you. But that's my opinion. Don't know what to tell you... Grades have always been up to the teacher's discretion, whining about it solves nothing. Welcome to the grown up world, where nothing is fair. You can complain your whole life, but it's not going to help... You'll just have to man up, tough it out, and deal with your problems yourself.
Is it RIGHT for teachers to mark students based on effort and attitude?
Yes, because knowledge and regurgitating information is only half the battle. School is basically preparing you for the workplace. If you know everything but can't deal with people, you'll have a hard time keeping a job.
In my school, if you wanted to get anything 80%+, you had to go beyond and do extra than what was asked in the assignment. I thought it was stupid at the time, but I'm starting to see the relevance of it. Still don't think its completely right, but you'll always find things you don't agree with. In college, I had a few courses that gave you grades just for showing up. 30% of my final grade is for attendance? It's stupid, Point is, anyone can do the minimum. The good grades plus the great attitude and effort will immediately show. Cream of the crop, if you will.
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One day you will learn that your superiors don't care about what you have to say and that your job is to kiss ass and make the best out of every situation. How much for your english tutoring on the weekends? lol
You should really get your english tutoring business up and running steadily, because your boss is going to be "against you" too. Also, the government and the cops will have it out for you too. Maybe, the world isn't out to get you, you're just a moron.
Food for thought!
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Teachers are humans too. If you treat her like crap, you're going to get it one way or another no matter what you "think" you deserve. When you graduate and get a job, you may think your boss is a complete idiot and take credit for your work. What can you really do about it? Quit? Try to take it to the higher ups? Thats just life. Deal with it.
As a teacher myself, if a student is giving me hell, you can be sure he/she won't be a happy camper whether they think its fair or not. That's just being honest to god. Talk to the teacher one on one, apologize for your behavior and man up instead of ranting all day about how life is unfair. Teachers have too much on their hands already to deal with additional BS like the OP describes.
tl:dr - karma's a bitch, deal with it
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EPT
