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Edit: You can ask critical questions about a team without burying a thread in a negativity. Don't use this thread as an opportunity to bash EG or any of its players.
Half a year ago, a TL writer sparked a controversy by prematurely questioning the EG training house based on a few months of player results. Artosis famously defended EG by retorting that BW team houses didn't even evaluate a player until they had a year of practice in a house. I think Artosis' comparison was wrong, but I still can't decide whether a team house's worth should be measured by results.
BW houses take longer to evaluate players because BW is more developed than SC2. Because BW players are better at BW than SC2 players are at SC2, it takes longer for developing BW players to reach a competitive level. So, just as it's unfair for a BW veteran to compare a 2 year old SC2 match with a 12 year old BW one, it's also unfair for Artosis to suggest that a SC2 player should be given as much time to develop as a BW one. Huk became one of the best SC2 players in the world after about six months of intense practice. If he had played BW for those 6 months instead, he wouldn't be competing with Flash.
It's been about 8 months since EG established their house now, and at least in my opinion, it's fair to say the team house environment hasn't provided the resident players with a competitive advantage. Incontrol's mechanics have improved, Machine can sometimes pass for Ret in a game instead of Idra at a party, and Demuslim is a top foreign Terran -- But they haven't gained ground on the competition. Demuslim in particular has seen his position among foreigners drop.
So, is the EG house a failure? It has improved the standard of living for EG's SC2 team. It helps facilitate incredible casting combinations like Incontrol and Idra during EGMC games. And the house lends legitimacy to entire foreign SC2 scene. How can you call that failure? I can't say for sure.
The question is: Do you think a training house which builds a team's brand, but doesn't improve a team's players, can be called a success?
 
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
if they didn't feel having the house was worthwhile they would probably get rid of it
dum thread
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I've seen this thread before and it went nowhere.
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i think a team house is always improving ppl, it forces them to play more and be in an evoirment where everyone practices, and i agree with rekrul, if it didnt pay off they would have probally moved to their own house again.
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Talent goes into EG, people come out.
Not sure where it goes.
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On April 21 2012 08:44 Rekrul wrote:
if they didn't feel having the house was worthwhile they would probably get rid of it
dum thread
That's a very practical way to look at it. Maybe it's the right way. But EG won't tell the community: this house isn't working, we're going to shut it down next year. They'll tell us it's a success until they close it down. That's just smart marketing.
And even if something is making money, does that mean I have to consider it a success? In one way yes, but not in every way. And maybe it won't make money forever? Maybe for a team house to work, you have to keep developing players? Maybe the way the house is working now is shortsighted? I'm still undecided.
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On April 21 2012 08:49 Cyber_Cheese wrote:
Talent goes into EG, people come out.
Not sure where it goes.
like who?
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I think everyone is aware that the EG training house does not mimic the Brood War team house environment.
That being said I think it does a lot for their team image, and it sets them one step above almost any other foreign team in that regard, so yeah I'd say it's paying off.
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I've been saying it from the get go, its kind of luxurious. They say they are trying to be like the Korean teams who have team houses but the Korean team houses are are from luxurious. They do not have individual bedrooms, they don't have a pool, they don't have giant T.V.s and stuff. They don't have little animals running around everywhere or girlfriends hanging over their shoulders. They sit in their cramped room and actually focus on starcraft. I think that's why they show lots of skill and the E.G. people haven't been showing overly spectacular results.
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
On April 21 2012 08:50 -_- wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2012 08:44 Rekrul wrote:
if they didn't feel having the house was worthwhile they would probably get rid of it
dum thread That's a very practical way to look at it. Maybe it's the right way. But EG won't tell the community: this house isn't working, we're going to shut it down next year. They'll tell us it's a success until they close it down. That's just smart marketing. And even if something is making money, does that mean I have to consider it a success? In one way yes, but not in every way. And maybe it won't make money forever? Maybe for a team house to work, you have to keep developing players? Maybe the way the house is working now is shortsighted?
it is a crux for their team, helps practice, keeps team unity alive, is a place for people to stay between events, etc...
even if it's no korean team-house in terms of player skill development it's stupid to suggest it might not be worthwhile
these things should be obvious, and as i said if they didn't feel they needed it they'd get rid of it (unless they own it instead of rent it...then ofc it doesn't fkin matter wat they do with it)
still a dum thread
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Most of the top EG players (Huk, JYP, Puma) are actually not in the EG house very often, even Idra is only there for brief periods. I think if all these players were together with Machine, Demuslim and InControl, then the burning competitive spirit of these top top players would bring their level up. Without them there I really don't see the drive from these 2nd tier EG players to absolutely be the best and to go out and not just compete, but win those tournaments.
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Not much to discuss here.
You can't even really ask a question like that, it's like ignoring half the reason the house even exists in my opinion.
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The EG Lair isn't only for StarCraft 2 I believe. Primarily they have the EG.SC2 team there, but don't they have other EG teams stay there sometimes too?
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If it builds esports then it is a success.
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I'm sure the EG house makes it much more attractive to join EG. Ofc, one would wonder whether it would be more worthwhile to consider a more rigorous training environment.
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Don't forget that the EG house also allows their korean players to practice in America in order to get on a better schedule for American events.
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I think a lot of these things have already been discussed, and the argument is no different still.
Whenever this "issue" is discussed it makes me go -_-
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Im under the impression that rent and living expenses is taken from the wages (or at least part of it) of the long-term residents? In which case, its a sweet deal for all (as long as their willing to live there and put the effort in) in the sense that EG is paying them but at the same time gaining the benefit of better training (hence better results, more money all that crap.) while keeping their players and staff (anna) happy.
If you look at it that way it really is a win-win situation, because even if the players arent getting increased results from it (im not saying they're not) the costs of it are really covered with their wages anyhow, and the players are happy because, well, they're getting a giant house, awesome living conditions regardless.
If its not done that way and EG fronts the entire bill then wages (or bill + living expenses then wages) then i could see it being a bit expensive if after time the results dont pour in, but then they could always switch to that model anyway, im sure with the amount of people staying there long-term its very viable to live comfortably.
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Erm, I believe that EG players don't even play that much a day... like 8 hours MAX. Idra probably plays more since he's been in BW style practice house...
Incontrol and others... they go to gym and etc etc. so.. eh... not that much practice.
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Hmmm, I see I see.
Well, that brings us to item two on our list, TLO's ginormous beard; specifically, is it working?
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EPT
