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United States7483 Posts
On March 02 2012 23:17 Liquid`NonY wrote:I agree with everyone saying that the sugar in the soda was causing more problems from the caffeine but I disagree with the consensus that daily caffeine is good. While daily caffeine users may quote the science on benefits of caffeine and quote personal experience on lack of negative effects, the only really relevant fact is that it's quite easy to become significantly tolerant of caffeine. So the positive effects that they think they are feeling but not measuring in any scientific manner are more likely alleviation of negative effects of dependence than true stimulation causing performance above baseline. The absence of negative effects is likely an accurate report because they aren't getting any effect from caffeine. Daily use results in tolerance that eventually makes it all useless but carries the unwanted consequence of developing caffeine dependence. If you want to use caffeine effectively, use it like Felix Felicis. Well, it doesn't have to be that extreme. But use it sparingly. And when you do, realize that the side effects are likely to be significant just as the positive effects will. So consuming a lot of caffeine before sleep will probably cause some disruption. Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 19:04 zatic wrote:
You can have a good amount of caffeine every day and still sleep like a baby if you eat and live healthy generally. I think that working people and students view caffeine very differently. Workers of course drink coffee in the morning and perhaps even in the afternoon. It's rare to still be drinking coffee after 5pm. The effects will be pretty much entirely gone by a 11pm or 12am bedtime. Students, on the other hand, especially soda drinking students, are likely consuming a lot of their caffeine after 5pm. They are pumping caffeine in their bodies so that they can have good brain function after midnight and yet they hope to be able to sleep immediately after they finish their work. It's ridiculous. Even people that have developed tolerance may still have significant problems sleeping. But most likely they are going beyond their tolerance because they don't consume about the same every day. When they have a lot of work, their caffeine consumption spikes. So I think your sentence there can be interpreted too widely and I'd at least narrow it down like this: have about the same amount of caffeine every day and stop caffeine consumption 5-6 hours before bedtime. Even then, some people will still have problems. Like most drugs, random sections of the population have effects that everyone else does not have. And on the flip side, some lucky people do not have any negative effect from dependence. But I'm not sure if anyone can really avoid developing a tolerance for caffeine's positive effects. So if you really want to use it effectively, you can't have the same amount every day. If you just want to avoid negative effects, then it's certainly possible for most people to do that while having it every day.
I recently had a long in depth conversation with a research group here at Umass that are researching the effects of caffeine on the body and specifically on the brain. MRI results from the tests they've conducted are pretty conclusive (I've seen the pictures, they're astonishing), your hypothesis is pretty damn near dead on. People who are used to having caffeine in their system cannot think or act at the same level they did before their caffeine addiction without caffeine in their system, and with it in their system they act at a normal level, not above where they'd be without the addiction. Yes, it is a drug, and yes, it is addictive and it has withdrawal symptoms (although not severe ones).
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Interesting. I tend to drink a cup of ice coffee in the morning to wake up from my coma, but drink nothing during the day (except some tea). Is that a good idea?
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I stopped drinking soda years ago. It's absolutely crazy but I can barely drink a whole can now without feeling sick (I have some a handful of times a year).
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On March 02 2012 19:19 Velr wrote:
Seriously?
I tend to drink like 1L of (strong) coffee a day when i'm at work and absolutely none when i'm at home or on holydays.
0 withdrawal symptomes...
You guys really get withdrawal when you stop that?
You're lucky. I went from 4 cups/day to no coffee at all once and it was terrible. I had flu like symptoms and terrible nightmares. I wasn't even trying to quit, I just didn't have any at home and couldn't be bothered to buy some LOL.
I'm fine if I decrease the dose slowly though.
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Cutting soda can only be a good thing, more power to you!
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I've gone through the same experience. For a long time my health was quite bad, so I started eliminating things one by one that seemed unhealthy. Eventually it came down to caffeine, so despite the fact that I didn't think it would have much of a difference on my overall health I decided it couldn't hurt to remind myself what life was like without it. I went without caffeine for six months.
I had pretty bad withdrawal symptoms. I couldn't focus, I felt tired all the time, I got headaches. Surely some of these are because I had other problems as well, but it didn't help. Turns out caffeine was a pretty strong crutch I was leaning on to be able to get through my day, as I'm sure it is for many people. After eliminating it and slowly deconstructing other aspects of my diet and routine that were contributing to overall poor health and energy levels, I tried working caffeine back in again in limited amounts. I noticed that after many other problems were fixed, and with limited consumption, caffeine was a huge boon to my ability to concentrate, but didn't leave me crippled when I couldn't have it.
As it is now, I use it mostly as a sort of performance enhancing drug to help with studying, playing games, or anything that requires intense focus. Because I don't abuse it and use it in a healthy level of moderation, I'm able to use it to its true potential. You'll likely find after a break and focusing on any other problems you may have that you can benefit just as much through structured use. Good luck!
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i've only had water to drink for over 2 yrs now, and i take 200mg caffeine m-fri pre work out and have been doing so for yrs. soda does not have much caffeine in it at all. 200mg = 57oz of dr pepper for example...which a crazy amount to have all at once rofl.
it doesn't affect my sleep at all..i've slept on average for 5-6 hours my whole life.
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On March 03 2012 03:08 Whitewing wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2012 23:17 Liquid`NonY wrote:I agree with everyone saying that the sugar in the soda was causing more problems from the caffeine but I disagree with the consensus that daily caffeine is good. While daily caffeine users may quote the science on benefits of caffeine and quote personal experience on lack of negative effects, the only really relevant fact is that it's quite easy to become significantly tolerant of caffeine. So the positive effects that they think they are feeling but not measuring in any scientific manner are more likely alleviation of negative effects of dependence than true stimulation causing performance above baseline. The absence of negative effects is likely an accurate report because they aren't getting any effect from caffeine. Daily use results in tolerance that eventually makes it all useless but carries the unwanted consequence of developing caffeine dependence. If you want to use caffeine effectively, use it like Felix Felicis. Well, it doesn't have to be that extreme. But use it sparingly. And when you do, realize that the side effects are likely to be significant just as the positive effects will. So consuming a lot of caffeine before sleep will probably cause some disruption. On March 02 2012 19:04 zatic wrote:
You can have a good amount of caffeine every day and still sleep like a baby if you eat and live healthy generally. I think that working people and students view caffeine very differently. Workers of course drink coffee in the morning and perhaps even in the afternoon. It's rare to still be drinking coffee after 5pm. The effects will be pretty much entirely gone by a 11pm or 12am bedtime. Students, on the other hand, especially soda drinking students, are likely consuming a lot of their caffeine after 5pm. They are pumping caffeine in their bodies so that they can have good brain function after midnight and yet they hope to be able to sleep immediately after they finish their work. It's ridiculous. Even people that have developed tolerance may still have significant problems sleeping. But most likely they are going beyond their tolerance because they don't consume about the same every day. When they have a lot of work, their caffeine consumption spikes. So I think your sentence there can be interpreted too widely and I'd at least narrow it down like this: have about the same amount of caffeine every day and stop caffeine consumption 5-6 hours before bedtime. Even then, some people will still have problems. Like most drugs, random sections of the population have effects that everyone else does not have. And on the flip side, some lucky people do not have any negative effect from dependence. But I'm not sure if anyone can really avoid developing a tolerance for caffeine's positive effects. So if you really want to use it effectively, you can't have the same amount every day. If you just want to avoid negative effects, then it's certainly possible for most people to do that while having it every day. I recently had a long in depth conversation with a research group here at Umass that are researching the effects of caffeine on the body and specifically on the brain. MRI results from the tests they've conducted are pretty conclusive (I've seen the pictures, they're astonishing), your hypothesis is pretty damn near dead on. People who are used to having caffeine in their system cannot think or act at the same level they did before their caffeine addiction without caffeine in their system, and with it in their system they act at a normal level, not above where they'd be without the addiction. Yes, it is a drug, and yes, it is addictive and it has withdrawal symptoms (although not severe ones).
Wow, thanks for the amazing information. Seems to me there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to regularly intake any cafeine. I had read about the cognitive benefits of cafeine but didn't realise that they probably wear off when you use them regularly and actually make you dependent on cafeine to function normally. No coffee for me 
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On March 02 2012 18:57 ePLocust wrote:
I believe that this problem sleeping can be contributed to two things specifically. Those two things are:
the college dorm environment and the copious amounts of soda that I was drinking every day.
Drinking less pop will definitely help your sleep problems, though, there are many other contributing causes. I'll pick on two:
1). Stress: High-stress semesters lead to a lot of unease and worry. You said that you use SC2 as an outlet. I'll also recommend some sort of physical activity you enjoy. As students it's easy to think you should be a studying robot, but if you don't take some time for yourself then you'll burn out. A physical activity is good because it both keeps you in shape and wears you out.
2). Residence Hall: You said it yourself - the hall is not conducive to sleep. I was a freshman RA for three years and things like staying up late and hanging out are omnipresent. If night-time noise level is an issue, I'd recommend buying a box fan since it will drown out a LOT of hallway noise. If you're the kind of person that needs dead-silence to sleep (like my freshman year roommate) then you need to get yourself in a good routine. Even if the noise level isn't ideal, it helps when your body recognizes certain times as sleep times. If you have a roommate who is opposed to sleeping before, say, 2am, then you need to have a conversation about sleep schedules, forge a compromise, and at the very least appeal to their respectfulness. Finally, many residents stay up late because they don't want to miss out on anything or don't want the good times to stop. Learning when to say "no" is essential. There's nothing wrong with ducking out a friend's room early so you can get more than 4 hours of sleep. Trust me, the friendships, opportunities, and good times will still be there in the morning!
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United States7483 Posts
On March 03 2012 07:58 Recognizable wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 03:08 Whitewing wrote:On March 02 2012 23:17 Liquid`NonY wrote:I agree with everyone saying that the sugar in the soda was causing more problems from the caffeine but I disagree with the consensus that daily caffeine is good. While daily caffeine users may quote the science on benefits of caffeine and quote personal experience on lack of negative effects, the only really relevant fact is that it's quite easy to become significantly tolerant of caffeine. So the positive effects that they think they are feeling but not measuring in any scientific manner are more likely alleviation of negative effects of dependence than true stimulation causing performance above baseline. The absence of negative effects is likely an accurate report because they aren't getting any effect from caffeine. Daily use results in tolerance that eventually makes it all useless but carries the unwanted consequence of developing caffeine dependence. If you want to use caffeine effectively, use it like Felix Felicis. Well, it doesn't have to be that extreme. But use it sparingly. And when you do, realize that the side effects are likely to be significant just as the positive effects will. So consuming a lot of caffeine before sleep will probably cause some disruption. On March 02 2012 19:04 zatic wrote:
You can have a good amount of caffeine every day and still sleep like a baby if you eat and live healthy generally. I think that working people and students view caffeine very differently. Workers of course drink coffee in the morning and perhaps even in the afternoon. It's rare to still be drinking coffee after 5pm. The effects will be pretty much entirely gone by a 11pm or 12am bedtime. Students, on the other hand, especially soda drinking students, are likely consuming a lot of their caffeine after 5pm. They are pumping caffeine in their bodies so that they can have good brain function after midnight and yet they hope to be able to sleep immediately after they finish their work. It's ridiculous. Even people that have developed tolerance may still have significant problems sleeping. But most likely they are going beyond their tolerance because they don't consume about the same every day. When they have a lot of work, their caffeine consumption spikes. So I think your sentence there can be interpreted too widely and I'd at least narrow it down like this: have about the same amount of caffeine every day and stop caffeine consumption 5-6 hours before bedtime. Even then, some people will still have problems. Like most drugs, random sections of the population have effects that everyone else does not have. And on the flip side, some lucky people do not have any negative effect from dependence. But I'm not sure if anyone can really avoid developing a tolerance for caffeine's positive effects. So if you really want to use it effectively, you can't have the same amount every day. If you just want to avoid negative effects, then it's certainly possible for most people to do that while having it every day. I recently had a long in depth conversation with a research group here at Umass that are researching the effects of caffeine on the body and specifically on the brain. MRI results from the tests they've conducted are pretty conclusive (I've seen the pictures, they're astonishing), your hypothesis is pretty damn near dead on. People who are used to having caffeine in their system cannot think or act at the same level they did before their caffeine addiction without caffeine in their system, and with it in their system they act at a normal level, not above where they'd be without the addiction. Yes, it is a drug, and yes, it is addictive and it has withdrawal symptoms (although not severe ones). Wow, thanks for the amazing information. Seems to me there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to regularly intake any cafeine. I had read about the cognitive benefits of cafeine but didn't realise that they probably wear off when you use them regularly and actually make you dependent on cafeine to function normally. No coffee for me
Yup, that's more or less correct :D.
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Thanks for all the information guys! This is why I love Team Liquid <3
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On March 03 2012 02:44 solidbebe wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2012 02:29 Ringall wrote:On March 02 2012 19:19 Velr wrote:
Seriously?
I tend to drink like 1L of (strong) coffee a day when i'm at work and absolutely none when i'm at home or on holydays.
0 withdrawal symptomes...
You guys really get withdrawal when you stop that? Yup. If I stop caffeine intake cold feet, I have a two day "hangover" :D Don't you mean cold turky?
Probably, english is not my first language :D
but hey, you understood what I mean.
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Caffeine means that I can still be alert enough to be basically functional in the weeks where I get less than 20 hours of sleep. Which is pretty much whenever there is a significant change in my routine or a lot of things happening. From experience caffeine does not decrease the amount of sleep I get at these times.
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Wow 1.5 L of soda for caffeine? You could easily get more efficient caffeination with coffee or caffeine pills.
Drinking soda for its caffeine is probably one of the worst ideas i've ever heard of.
With that said. I'm a medical student and I take about 200 mg caffeine in 2 doses (less than 1 starbucks coffee) per day and I sleep 7-8 hours. Learn to control your intake and then you will be able to use caffeine as a tool to help you study instead of damage your health.
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On March 02 2012 19:21 Rickson wrote:
You're blaming the wrong things. You should be blaming the ridiculous amount of soda you were consuming which is extremely high in sugar. Caffeine (1~2) cups of coffee is actually beneficial for your motor abilities and cognitive skills. Please do not be misinformed.
He is right , sugar is the true cause here. Its pretty much poison in high doosez. Why do you think there is fiber in fruit?
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On March 04 2012 10:36 Knap4life wrote:
Why do you think there is fiber in fruit?
I don't know. Why?
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On March 04 2012 11:03 -_-Quails wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2012 10:36 Knap4life wrote:
Why do you think there is fiber in fruit? I don't know. Why?
Fiber makes you feel full quicker.
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EPT
