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Well, with all this madness as of late, and with many players leaving there teams I wanted to make a post on my perspective on this. Few things I want people to know, one is the numbers I am using are numbers I am randomly making up, I have no idea how much players make on teams outside of mine. Secondly, I manage an organization called ItsGoSu eSports, and now two Korean players. One being HwangSin, and a recent addition named Eliaze.
I believe the reason the Korean players are leaving their teams in the first place is because they hear what some of the foreign players are making. When they hear about a foreign player, that makes $60,000 a year, that they believe they are equal to, or better than. I think many of them react in a way of well if he can make that much I can at least make that much or something very close to it, because I am better than him. The problem with this, is that the players that are foreign and making the big salaries are making them for multiple reasons. For one, they are obvisouly incredible players, that's something they all have in common. The differences are though, is that there are very few foreign players right now that can compete with the tip top Koreans on a regular basis. The amount of marketability a foreign player has if he is able to compete in something like the GSL is huge. Sponsors will WANT to be a part of that organization because of the amount of exposure they get from those players. As a pro Korean player, they should be expected to be on the level of the top foreigners for the most part. The obvious is that all the pro Koreans for the mots part can at least compete with each other, its the standard of being a pro Korean. However, the vast majority of our pro community, doesn't compete as well with the pro Koreans, its also the standard. So a foreign player that does, is worth a substantial amount more to an organization then a Korean player at that point.
Another problem with all of this is the inflation they are bringing to the market of Korean players to foreign teams. When there is one big Korean player seeking a team, and there are many teams interested he will get the most from the team he signs with. When there are upwards of 10 players at once looking for foreign teams, foreign teams can go around and lowball them and then take the one that will come for the least. This actually helps the foreign teams pick up the players, but in turn is making it more difficult for the Koreans that are seeking teams to get what they feel they are worth.
The issue of a false sense of money in foreign teams is making this more difficult to. Everyone knows there are a few teams, that have worked VERY hard to be in a situation to where they have a great deal of money coming in. I honestly think that many of these Korean players think that if Team A has that much money then Team B C D E F and G must have a similar amount. Which in all reality, just isn't the case. With what many of the players are asking for, its really limits the options of teams that could even pick them up if they wanted to. Then if a smaller organization does decide to give a player what he wants, that team will generally in turn be kind of screwing all of their players that have help build the organization from the ground up. For example, if there is a team that spend $2000 a month on salaries for its players, that picks up one Korean player that requires $2000 a month, odds are that the other players they have will not be re contracted for the same salary when their contracts end if a few new sponsors aren't picked up in that period of time. Simply because all of their money is now going to one individual.
Leaving team houses I also think is a HUGE thing to consider as well. In all reality, the Korean team houses have proved time and time again to be successful and a great way to train. These players that are leaving them are very high level, and potentially will get worse training on their own from home without any team members to train with. You can only get so much from ladder, for a pro player, that is just a single tool you use to practice. Your team members and customs in my opinion are even more important. So, as a foreign team, you could potentially be signing a player for xxxx number of dollars a month, that gets lazier in their training methods because they don't have a group of people living with them to push them further every day.
Thanks for reading, and again these are just my opinions. I am sure some people will disagree, and there are many other completely valid points as well.
-GoSuRuM
  
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Cool stuff, a team manager shedding some light on all the team/player interactions (/drama) going on. What I wonder about though is this part:
These players that are leaving them are very high level, and potentially will get worse training on their own from home without any team members to train with. You can only get so much from ladder, for a pro player, that is just a single tool you use to practice. Your team members and customs in my opinion are even more important
I can imagine players having a group of progamer friends that they could still practice in customs with even if they left the team house? Wouldn't the lack of discipline/motivating environment be worse?
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Well spoken Scott.. agree with you on a ton of points.
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This post echos sentiments expressed by a lot of Western team managers and such that were expressed in the Golden and Dragon leaving SlayerS thread. I wish there was someway to communicate this to more of the korean players.
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On January 19 2012 06:27 Swilvan wrote:Cool stuff, a team manager shedding some light on all the team/player interactions (/drama) going on. What I wonder about though is this part: Show nested quote +These players that are leaving them are very high level, and potentially will get worse training on their own from home without any team members to train with. You can only get so much from ladder, for a pro player, that is just a single tool you use to practice. Your team members and customs in my opinion are even more important
I can imagine players having a group of progamer friends that they could still practice in customs with even if they left the team house? Wouldn't the lack of discipline/motivating environment be worse?
Do you think that interacting with people over the internet is as effective as having people aroudn you in person close to you?
Plus in team houses you usually have a coach who... does coach stuff. You don't get that alone at home.
The entire environment also drives discipline and motivation.
From my experience in a "normal" (office) job, usually when I have a query about something and message them over Communicator or the internal office phones, it usually ends in one of us going over to talk to the other in person, because it's just much easier to understand things when you are both there in one place talking and looking at the same stuff. Same would go for SC2 practicing and analysis I am 99.99% sure.
(Also I'm fairly sure this is at least in part reposted from the OPs own posts in such threads as mentioned above. He's just reissuing his opinion for debate this on aspect).
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I think you left off one significant point: the marketability of the typical korean pro. Many of them don't speak english and have a more difficult time letting their personalities shine through. There are obvious exceptions (MC, Dragon, NaDa, etc). But, unless the Korean is successful in GSL Code S, they don't get much attention from the casual fan.
IdrA, Destiny, CatZ, Tyler, Incontrol, HuK, WhiteRa and Naniwa... only 2 of them have briefly competed in Code S and some of them have never earned a top 3 finish in a big tournament. Yet, they are sought after by well-financed teams.
My point is that skill isn't the only asset for teams who are looking for VISIBILITY.
edit: that said, I thought you brought up lots of good points.
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On January 19 2012 07:20 ProTech_MediC wrote:
I think you left off one significant point: the marketability of the typical korean pro. Many of them don't speak english and have a more difficult time letting their personalities shine through. There are obvious exceptions (MC, Dragon, NaDa, etc). But, unless the Korean is successful in GSL Code S, they don't get much attention from the casual fan.
IdrA, Destiny, CatZ, Tyler, Incontrol, HuK, WhiteRa and Naniwa... only 2 of them have briefly competed in Code S and some of them have never earned a top 3 finish in a big tournament. Yet, they are sought after by well-financed teams.
My point is that skill isn't the only asset for teams who are looking for VISIBILITY.
edit: that said, I thought you brought up lots of good points.
While I would have agreed with you int he past I'll use one of our Korean players as an example. HwangSin when we picked him up spoke little to no English. When we would have a conversation just about every single response was "ahha." Now if you watch his stream roughly 6 months later, he interacts with his viewers in English, sings songs, that are sometimes in English. He even calls people Cheese boy in English :p. So I think if a Korean player is really motivated for the right reasons to be on a foreign team, English is something they will pick up on rather quickly.
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Agreed, and nice read!
Nicely done.
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Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
eSports needs more transparency and its always appreciated.
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United Kingdom2950 Posts
Thanks for posting this RumCake, much appreciated. I've always wondered what managerial staff and other people who own teams think about picking up non Code S koreans and this is quite insightful.
On January 19 2012 12:36 StarMoon wrote:
eSports needs more transparency and its always appreciated.
This cannot be said enough. It's a delicate balance between being well-spoken and being misunderstood and drowned out by the public, but I think transparency can only be a good thing.
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Great read, thanks Scott.
Agree with what starmoon said about Transparency. Without that it's very easy to exaggerate especially numbers.
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why is player salary such a mystery?
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On January 19 2012 17:24 Masq wrote:
why is player salary such a mystery?
To be honest, I think this is because of a number of reasons. One, in eSports it seems to be shunned to say how much other people make. In other sports, such as MMA, the purses that an athlete wins are announced, but how much they make exactly from each individual sponsor isn't, which is the majority of most of their incomes. So I kind of see it like that, being this is an individual competition. I think some players don't really want their salaries to be known as well. Either way, how much each player makes really is their choice if they decide to share that. I know that most players, even some of the big names, don't make enough money off salary to really pay bills right now. IE rent etc. Of course there are some that do, but the majority really don't. In time this will change, salaries have been going up as more companies have been coming on board with teams.
Another thing is I think some organizations don't really want people knowing exactly what each player is paid. If everyone knew, it would create more competition for their players. Then one team can come and say all I need is this much money to give him more etc. In all reality though, that would have its positives and negatives just like hiding these numbers from everyone does.
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EPT
