• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 02:52
CEST 08:52
KST 15:52
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt1: Runway122v2 & SC: Evo Complete: Weekend Double Feature3Team Liquid Map Contest #21 - Presented by Monster Energy9uThermal's 2v2 Tour: $15,000 Main Event18Serral wins EWC 202549
Community News
Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris8Weekly Cups (Aug 11-17): MaxPax triples again!13Weekly Cups (Aug 4-10): MaxPax wins a triple6SC2's Safe House 2 - October 18 & 195Weekly Cups (Jul 28-Aug 3): herO doubles up6
StarCraft 2
General
Geoff 'iNcontroL' Robinson has passed away RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread Weekly Cups (Aug 11-17): MaxPax triples again! What mix of new and old maps do you want in the next 1v1 ladder pool? (SC2) : I made a 5.0.12/5.0.13 replay fix
Tourneys
Maestros of The Game—$20k event w/ live finals in Paris Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 487 Think Fast Mutation # 486 Watch the Skies Mutation # 485 Death from Below Mutation # 484 Magnetic Pull
Brood War
General
Victoria gamers Flash Announces (and Retracts) Hiatus From ASL New season has just come in ladder BW General Discussion [ASL20] Ro24 Preview Pt1: Runway
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL20] Ro24 Group C Cosmonarchy Pro Showmatches [ASL20] Ro24 Group B
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Mineral Boosting Muta micro map competition
Other Games
General Games
General RTS Discussion Thread Path of Exile Beyond All Reason Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
High temperatures on bridge(s) Gtx660 graphics card replacement Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment"
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale
Blogs
INDEPENDIENTE LA CTM
XenOsky
The Biochemical Cost of Gami…
TrAiDoS
[Girl blog} My fema…
artosisisthebest
Sharpening the Filtration…
frozenclaw
ASL S20 English Commentary…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1160 users

Korean players LF Foreign teams, a managers pov.

Blogs > RuMCaKe
Post a Reply
RuMCaKe
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States559 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-18 21:28:53
January 18 2012 21:18 GMT
#1
Well, with all this madness as of late, and with many players leaving there teams I wanted to make a post on my perspective on this. Few things I want people to know, one is the numbers I am using are numbers I am randomly making up, I have no idea how much players make on teams outside of mine. Secondly, I manage an organization called ItsGoSu eSports, and now two Korean players. One being HwangSin, and a recent addition named Eliaze.

I believe the reason the Korean players are leaving their teams in the first place is because they hear what some of the foreign players are making. When they hear about a foreign player, that makes $60,000 a year, that they believe they are equal to, or better than. I think many of them react in a way of well if he can make that much I can at least make that much or something very close to it, because I am better than him. The problem with this, is that the players that are foreign and making the big salaries are making them for multiple reasons. For one, they are obvisouly incredible players, that's something they all have in common. The differences are though, is that there are very few foreign players right now that can compete with the tip top Koreans on a regular basis. The amount of marketability a foreign player has if he is able to compete in something like the GSL is huge. Sponsors will WANT to be a part of that organization because of the amount of exposure they get from those players. As a pro Korean player, they should be expected to be on the level of the top foreigners for the most part. The obvious is that all the pro Koreans for the mots part can at least compete with each other, its the standard of being a pro Korean. However, the vast majority of our pro community, doesn't compete as well with the pro Koreans, its also the standard. So a foreign player that does, is worth a substantial amount more to an organization then a Korean player at that point.

Another problem with all of this is the inflation they are bringing to the market of Korean players to foreign teams. When there is one big Korean player seeking a team, and there are many teams interested he will get the most from the team he signs with. When there are upwards of 10 players at once looking for foreign teams, foreign teams can go around and lowball them and then take the one that will come for the least. This actually helps the foreign teams pick up the players, but in turn is making it more difficult for the Koreans that are seeking teams to get what they feel they are worth.

The issue of a false sense of money in foreign teams is making this more difficult to. Everyone knows there are a few teams, that have worked VERY hard to be in a situation to where they have a great deal of money coming in. I honestly think that many of these Korean players think that if Team A has that much money then Team B C D E F and G must have a similar amount. Which in all reality, just isn't the case. With what many of the players are asking for, its really limits the options of teams that could even pick them up if they wanted to. Then if a smaller organization does decide to give a player what he wants, that team will generally in turn be kind of screwing all of their players that have help build the organization from the ground up. For example, if there is a team that spend $2000 a month on salaries for its players, that picks up one Korean player that requires $2000 a month, odds are that the other players they have will not be re contracted for the same salary when their contracts end if a few new sponsors aren't picked up in that period of time. Simply because all of their money is now going to one individual.

Leaving team houses I also think is a HUGE thing to consider as well. In all reality, the Korean team houses have proved time and time again to be successful and a great way to train. These players that are leaving them are very high level, and potentially will get worse training on their own from home without any team members to train with. You can only get so much from ladder, for a pro player, that is just a single tool you use to practice. Your team members and customs in my opinion are even more important. So, as a foreign team, you could potentially be signing a player for xxxx number of dollars a month, that gets lazier in their training methods because they don't have a group of people living with them to push them further every day.


Thanks for reading, and again these are just my opinions. I am sure some people will disagree, and there are many other completely valid points as well.

-GoSuRuM



***
twitter.com/RuMCaKeS
Swilvan
Profile Joined March 2011
113 Posts
January 18 2012 21:27 GMT
#2
Cool stuff, a team manager shedding some light on all the team/player interactions (/drama) going on. What I wonder about though is this part:
These players that are leaving them are very high level, and potentially will get worse training on their own from home without any team members to train with. You can only get so much from ladder, for a pro player, that is just a single tool you use to practice. Your team members and customs in my opinion are even more important

I can imagine players having a group of progamer friends that they could still practice in customs with even if they left the team house? Wouldn't the lack of discipline/motivating environment be worse?
Noxie
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2227 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-18 21:30:43
January 18 2012 21:30 GMT
#3
Well spoken Scott.. agree with you on a ton of points.
rUiNati0n
Profile Joined December 2010
United States1155 Posts
January 18 2012 21:46 GMT
#4
This post echos sentiments expressed by a lot of Western team managers and such that were expressed in the Golden and Dragon leaving SlayerS thread. I wish there was someway to communicate this to more of the korean players.
eating corn while thinking about eating more corn
Lonyo
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United Kingdom3884 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-18 22:17:22
January 18 2012 22:15 GMT
#5
On January 19 2012 06:27 Swilvan wrote:
Cool stuff, a team manager shedding some light on all the team/player interactions (/drama) going on. What I wonder about though is this part:
Show nested quote +
These players that are leaving them are very high level, and potentially will get worse training on their own from home without any team members to train with. You can only get so much from ladder, for a pro player, that is just a single tool you use to practice. Your team members and customs in my opinion are even more important

I can imagine players having a group of progamer friends that they could still practice in customs with even if they left the team house? Wouldn't the lack of discipline/motivating environment be worse?

Do you think that interacting with people over the internet is as effective as having people aroudn you in person close to you?
Plus in team houses you usually have a coach who... does coach stuff. You don't get that alone at home.

The entire environment also drives discipline and motivation.

From my experience in a "normal" (office) job, usually when I have a query about something and message them over Communicator or the internal office phones, it usually ends in one of us going over to talk to the other in person, because it's just much easier to understand things when you are both there in one place talking and looking at the same stuff. Same would go for SC2 practicing and analysis I am 99.99% sure.

(Also I'm fairly sure this is at least in part reposted from the OPs own posts in such threads as mentioned above. He's just reissuing his opinion for debate this on aspect).
HOLY CHECK!
ProTech_MediC
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States498 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-18 22:25:22
January 18 2012 22:20 GMT
#6
I think you left off one significant point: the marketability of the typical korean pro. Many of them don't speak english and have a more difficult time letting their personalities shine through. There are obvious exceptions (MC, Dragon, NaDa, etc). But, unless the Korean is successful in GSL Code S, they don't get much attention from the casual fan.

IdrA, Destiny, CatZ, Tyler, Incontrol, HuK, WhiteRa and Naniwa... only 2 of them have briefly competed in Code S and some of them have never earned a top 3 finish in a big tournament. Yet, they are sought after by well-financed teams.

My point is that skill isn't the only asset for teams who are looking for VISIBILITY.

edit: that said, I thought you brought up lots of good points.
MC Fighting!~
RuMCaKe
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States559 Posts
January 18 2012 22:30 GMT
#7
On January 19 2012 07:20 ProTech_MediC wrote:
I think you left off one significant point: the marketability of the typical korean pro. Many of them don't speak english and have a more difficult time letting their personalities shine through. There are obvious exceptions (MC, Dragon, NaDa, etc). But, unless the Korean is successful in GSL Code S, they don't get much attention from the casual fan.

IdrA, Destiny, CatZ, Tyler, Incontrol, HuK, WhiteRa and Naniwa... only 2 of them have briefly competed in Code S and some of them have never earned a top 3 finish in a big tournament. Yet, they are sought after by well-financed teams.

My point is that skill isn't the only asset for teams who are looking for VISIBILITY.

edit: that said, I thought you brought up lots of good points.



While I would have agreed with you int he past I'll use one of our Korean players as an example. HwangSin when we picked him up spoke little to no English. When we would have a conversation just about every single response was "ahha." Now if you watch his stream roughly 6 months later, he interacts with his viewers in English, sings songs, that are sometimes in English. He even calls people Cheese boy in English :p. So I think if a Korean player is really motivated for the right reasons to be on a foreign team, English is something they will pick up on rather quickly.
twitter.com/RuMCaKeS
vG.oCRaM
Profile Joined August 2011
United States77 Posts
January 19 2012 03:03 GMT
#8
Agreed, and nice read!
Nicely done.
http://www.twitch.tv/procram
StarMoon
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada682 Posts
January 19 2012 03:36 GMT
#9
Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

eSports needs more transparency and its always appreciated.
Wunder
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United Kingdom2950 Posts
January 19 2012 07:11 GMT
#10
Thanks for posting this RumCake, much appreciated. I've always wondered what managerial staff and other people who own teams think about picking up non Code S koreans and this is quite insightful.

On January 19 2012 12:36 StarMoon wrote:
eSports needs more transparency and its always appreciated.


This cannot be said enough. It's a delicate balance between being well-spoken and being misunderstood and drowned out by the public, but I think transparency can only be a good thing.
Writer@joonjoewong
kellymilkies
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Singapore1393 Posts
January 19 2012 08:06 GMT
#11
Great read, thanks Scott.

Agree with what starmoon said about Transparency. Without that it's very easy to exaggerate especially numbers.
Be the change you wish to see in the world ^-^V //
Masq
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Canada1792 Posts
January 19 2012 08:24 GMT
#12
why is player salary such a mystery?
RuMCaKe
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States559 Posts
January 19 2012 08:33 GMT
#13
On January 19 2012 17:24 Masq wrote:
why is player salary such a mystery?



To be honest, I think this is because of a number of reasons. One, in eSports it seems to be shunned to say how much other people make. In other sports, such as MMA, the purses that an athlete wins are announced, but how much they make exactly from each individual sponsor isn't, which is the majority of most of their incomes. So I kind of see it like that, being this is an individual competition. I think some players don't really want their salaries to be known as well. Either way, how much each player makes really is their choice if they decide to share that. I know that most players, even some of the big names, don't make enough money off salary to really pay bills right now. IE rent etc. Of course there are some that do, but the majority really don't. In time this will change, salaries have been going up as more companies have been coming on board with teams.

Another thing is I think some organizations don't really want people knowing exactly what each player is paid. If everyone knew, it would create more competition for their players. Then one team can come and say all I need is this much money to give him more etc. In all reality though, that would have its positives and negatives just like hiding these numbers from everyone does.
twitter.com/RuMCaKeS
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 3h 8m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 242
StarCraft: Brood War
ggaemo 1575
Pusan 521
firebathero 325
ToSsGirL 132
sorry 99
Noble 27
Free 25
JulyZerg 25
ajuk12(nOOB) 24
Sharp 20
[ Show more ]
Icarus 5
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm101
XcaliburYe57
League of Legends
JimRising 659
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K923
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King12
Other Games
summit1g6454
C9.Mang0290
SortOf92
Trikslyr28
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick959
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH290
• davetesta10
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota263
League of Legends
• Lourlo1112
• Stunt433
• HappyZerGling88
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
3h 8m
WardiTV Summer Champion…
4h 8m
Zoun vs Bunny
herO vs Solar
Replay Cast
17h 8m
LiuLi Cup
1d 4h
BSL Team Wars
1d 12h
Team Hawk vs Team Dewalt
Korean StarCraft League
1d 20h
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
SC Evo League
2 days
WardiTV Summer Champion…
2 days
Classic vs Percival
Spirit vs NightMare
CSO Cup
2 days
[ Show More ]
[BSL 2025] Weekly
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
SC Evo League
3 days
BSL Team Wars
3 days
Team Bonyth vs Team Sziky
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
Queen vs HyuN
EffOrt vs Calm
Wardi Open
4 days
RotterdaM Event
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Afreeca Starleague
5 days
Rush vs TBD
Jaedong vs Mong
Afreeca Starleague
6 days
herO vs TBD
Royal vs Barracks
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Jiahua Invitational
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
HCC Europe

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
BSL 20 Team Wars
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 3
BSL 21 Qualifiers
ASL Season 20
CSL Season 18: Qualifier 1
SEL Season 2 Championship
WardiTV Summer 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025

Upcoming

CSLAN 3
CSL Season 18: Qualifier 2
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
LASL Season 20
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
Chzzk MurlocKing SC1 vs SC2 Cup #2
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
EC S1
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters Fall
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
Roobet Cup 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.