EPTThanks for reading, and happy holidays!
How to keep improving in masters?
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IMoperator
4476 Posts
Thanks for reading, and happy holidays! | ||
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blabber
United States4448 Posts
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IMoperator
4476 Posts
On December 23 2011 17:50 blabber wrote: keep practicing and really try to understand the game... seems to me you got to where you are just from focusing on a few builds and executing them decently. what separates good players from bleh players is their actual understanding of the game... and how they react to certain situations Yeah that's what I'm saying lol, I did the same 3 builds every game vs. all 3 races and then just tried to have more shit than the other guy. So understanding just comes from practicing a lot right? | ||
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blabber
United States4448 Posts
i should note that practice isn't just for building up mechanics. it's for experience. seeing different strategies from opponents and learning how to react to them will make you a better player overall and improve decision making, ie. build up game sense. | ||
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ReketSomething
United States6012 Posts
For me, instead of trying to be strict with the builds, try to make it more freeflowing and based on what you scout. Might not work for everyone though. | ||
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Itsmedudeman
United States19229 Posts
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IMoperator
4476 Posts
On December 23 2011 17:56 blabber wrote: pretty much. i would also watch pro vods because there are many different things you can learn from observing other games. i recommend listening closely to tastosis+artosis casts since artosis talks about things you should be thinking about during your games. Yeah artosis is really informative, I watch his stream all the time and it helps even though I'm a terran. | ||
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imBLIND
United States2626 Posts
As for improving, these ladder matches are not a Bo3 or Bo5 where the focus is winning the series; just stick with one build (unless you know you've played the guy before) and focus on perfecting your game sense by familarizing yourself with the late game and mid game situations you normally get in and by working on scouting+reacting, critical micro, and macro so you have some checkpoints you can reach within the game. | ||
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ohokurwrong
Brazil283 Posts
not even kidding this is the secret to getting better and its undeniable. to get better you must want to do the things that make you better. here is an example my scouting is weak. do you attempt every game to make it a habit to constantly scout every nook and cranny for proxy nonsense? if not you will never get better because that is a habit that you must force yourself to do or want to do. there is no skill i scouting better, you just do it. now as to micro. do you attempt in large fights to split and form a concave? the answer for most is that they dont even attempt to. not attempting to will never yield practice and thus your micro will forever suck. when you are playing a game do you attempt to do things that require multitasking? most ppl dont do things that they are bad at and so if multitasking makes them slip with macro they wont do it and again not improve this aspect. if you ARE doing these things you WILL get better up until your max potential which we all have within ourselves. ive done a ton of coaching to low-mid masters and even a few high masters who didnt have an ego that were struggling to learn multitasking while macroing to a high level. the answer i gave to them all was in a nutshell (a very very simple nutshell) force yourself to do builds that are demanding of the skill you lack. if you suck at micro and your terran well make heavy marine builds against zerg. if you suck at multitasking as a zerg well start forcing yourself to do drops or aggressive builds you must take 1 step backwards in order to take 2 forwards. learning these skills when you are IN masters will most likely cause you to lose. but losing is the best teacher and you will be a better player once you are back in masters and will most likely now be able to progress as a truly good player rather then the "3 build player" you claim you are currently | ||
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ohokurwrong
Brazil283 Posts
On December 23 2011 17:57 ReketSomething wrote: Playing more obviously makes you better. For me, instead of trying to be strict with the builds, try to make it more freeflowing and based on what you scout. Might not work for everyone though. also playing more doesnt make you better playing RIGHT makes you better this is pretty important... | ||
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Bibbit
Canada5377 Posts
 ) but really pay attention.But yeah, you just gotta figure out your weak points, which it looks like you have some grasp of, and work on them. Go into games with the intention of dropping a lot to improve your multitask, things like that. | ||
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IMoperator
4476 Posts
On December 23 2011 18:01 ohokurwrong wrote: if by 3 builds you mean something along the lines of standard play per race thats more then fine. if by 3 builds you mean you have 3 very specific all ins or 2 base nonsense that you do then im just curious if you enjoyed the getting to masters... not even kidding this is the secret to getting better and its undeniable. to get better you must want to do the things that make you better. here is an example my scouting is weak. do you attempt every game to make it a habit to constantly scout every nook and cranny for proxy nonsense? if not you will never get better because that is a habit that you must force yourself to do or want to do. there is no skill i scouting better, you just do it. now as to micro. do you attempt in large fights to split and form a concave? the answer for most is that they dont even attempt to. not attempting to will never yield practice and thus your micro will forever suck. when you are playing a game do you attempt to do things that require multitasking? most ppl dont do things that they are bad at and so if multitasking makes them slip with macro they wont do it and again not improve this aspect. if you ARE doing these things you WILL get better up until your max potential which we all have within ourselves. ive done a ton of coaching to low-mid masters and even a few high masters who didnt have an ego that were struggling to learn multitasking while macroing to a high level. the answer i gave to them all was in a nutshell (a very very simple nutshell) force yourself to do builds that are demanding of the skill you lack. if you suck at micro and your terran well make heavy marine builds against zerg. if you suck at multitasking as a zerg well start forcing yourself to do drops or aggressive builds you must take 1 step backwards in order to take 2 forwards. learning these skills when you are IN masters will most likely cause you to lose. but losing is the best teacher and you will be a better player once you are back in masters and will most likely now be able to progress as a truly good player rather then the "3 build player" you claim you are currently Thanks a lot for this, it will really help. Tomorrow I'm gonna start trying to work on my weakness and go out of my comfort zone so to speak. The 3 builds I do are: TvZ reactor hellion expand into 3 tank push and then from then on take a 3rd and play normal, TvP 2 rax reactor first pressure into expand, then go up to 3/4 rax with reactor starport and then transition to whatever based on what he's doing, TvT 1 rax expand into 3 rax (two with reactors) and then get reactored starport and double medi and then switch into marine tank. So they aren't really all in builds but I follow these very strictly and if someone does something weird it usually messes me up pretty bad. | ||
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SiguR
Canada2039 Posts
Good luck! | ||
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wishbones
Canada2600 Posts
tl;dr, i know the gist of this post judging by the title. practice nonstop single matchups if you tire of not improving on a specific matchup, stop doing ladder because that will hinder progress. play just one matchup per week, then next week one matchup, or just 1 matchup per season, its up to you to make a reasonably long duration of practicing one matchup. since it is just a game, its impossible to lose over and over to the same thing for too long, i say 300 games tops you should be able to beat whatever you find yourself stuck against atm, and eventually it will no longer be a viable strat that the person can use against you, basically you blow it out of the water after experiencing it 300 times in a month, but if you dont do just 1 matchup style practice, then expect more time consumption and that or get a gosu teacher they can always cut learning time down by years in a game of starcraft. edt: just read the post, what i said applies, for micro, you just need to realize its a game therefore impossible not to get good at with strong dedication, exactly like a slapshot from hockey, or a juggler with a soccer ball that dont let it hit the ground for 5 minutes straight. high accuracy and good speed will produce the most amazing micro always. if you have bad accuracy and slow mouse movement that is the main thing for good micro. without high speed and accuracy micro actions will be performed slowly and result in more losses of units. if you find yourself losing more while attempting to be faster, dont fret, thats part of breaking the sound barrier in starcraft once its achieved its standard play no longer hard at all. exactly like riding a bike, youll never lose the ability. also, dont ever think im trying to play too fast thats why im losing, thats incorrect, your just tired or you just multitasked badly in that game or games, now im stepping on a land mine so ill leave this with what i wrote. | ||
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SoKHo
Korea (South)1081 Posts
On December 23 2011 18:14 IMoperator wrote: Thanks a lot for this, it will really help. Tomorrow I'm gonna start trying to work on my weakness and go out of my comfort zone so to speak. The 3 builds I do are: TvZ reactor hellion expand into 3 tank push and then from then on take a 3rd and play normal, TvP 2 rax reactor first pressure into expand, then go up to 3/4 rax with reactor starport and then transition to whatever based on what he's doing, TvT 1 rax expand into 3 rax (two with reactors) and then get reactored starport and double medi and then switch into marine tank. So they aren't really all in builds but I follow these very strictly and if someone does something weird it usually messes me up pretty bad. Yeah, I would learn a couple of new builds like gasless 1 rax fe in tvp. 2 rax is pretty bad against toss on some maps since if u don't do damage, you'll be ~10 workers behind. Also reactor hellion into 3 tank push is good, but if they have an inbase macro hatch, you need to be careful since they can overrun you. You just need to adjust to maps and situations. I remember idra saying that players can mindlessly zealot sentry push zerg, but thinking about the game productively (e.g. why am I zealot sentry pushing him) will yield better results. | ||
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scarper65
1560 Posts
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Deleted User 61629
1664 Posts
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SchOOl_VicTIm
Greece2394 Posts
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Eatme
Switzerland3919 Posts
When I tried to get good in bw I went looking for the best channels and tried to get games there. I dont really know if you can still do that since I only play for fun now but try that approach atleast. If you cant I guess you could talk with everyone you face on the ladder that crushes you skillwise. Maybe he has a strong XvT and is more meh in the other MUs so you can use that for practice. I figure atleast 1 in 100games would fit that description and good people usually know other good people. Maybe you are already doing this or have a group of friends you practice with but if you dont, I think it's worth a try. Playing lots is still unavoidable and gives you experience like nothing else. | ||
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Dfgj
Singapore5922 Posts
On December 23 2011 17:57 Itsmedudeman wrote: Imo macro is really easy in sc2. The biggest rooms for improvement are gonna be game sense, timings, micro, and multitasking. Try playing out of your comfort zone sometimes with new builds/strategies. You'd think so, but people float money in masters all the time. There's space to improve on that well into master league (and any league below that, of course). | ||
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LovE-
United States1963 Posts
It wasn't until season 5 started that I said, "okay, I'm going to constantly build 75 workers every game." Because I've recently noticed that at the 20 minute mark, i'm on 3 bases with 50 workers O_O | ||
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ohokurwrong
Brazil283 Posts
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Rotodyne
United States2263 Posts
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Bibbit
Canada5377 Posts
On December 24 2011 03:37 Rotodyne wrote: You could easily get top 500 masters and further with just 3 basic builds that you know really well. I'd actually go even further. If you're reallyyyyyyy good, you could get top 1 GM ! I mean, I'm sure if MVP exclusively used 3 builds on the ladder, he'd still run show pretty hard . Wouldn't really fly too well in tournaments and stuff but would be fine on ladder.A bit of an exaggeration but you get the idea. : ) | ||
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