EPTA Rational Take on the Naniwa Situation - Page 3
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aquanda
United States477 Posts
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MrCash
United States1504 Posts
There can be no gray area when it comes to losing intentionally, it is a very slippery slope which can lead to horrible ramifications for ALL of eSports, not just one player. This should not be tolerated, no matter what kind of mental gymnastics you try to do in order to justify it. | ||
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TraderSC
Sweden7 Posts
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leo23
United States3075 Posts
On December 13 2011 22:43 aderum wrote: No he wanted to play a short game, you dont know is he wanted to lose. "@LorangerChris Stephano 6pooled cloud twice in a row when he was 0-3 in a game that actually mattered. Nobody gave a shit. Haters gonna hate" were you as upset when this happened in a game that actually mattered? please read my words naniwa had no real chances of winning with a probe rush against a professional player like nestea. he wanted to lose, what can't you understand from that? stephano did a strategy that while it has a low win percentage, it can certainly work. He did want a short game | ||
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Madder
Australia427 Posts
On December 13 2011 22:45 aquanda wrote: The Astros actually played a game, which is much different than what Naniwa did. He walked on the field, lazily threw the ball at the catcher, and walked off. Doing a 1 base allin is quite different than selecting 7 probes and A-moving across the map in hopes your opponent had a heart attack at the start of the game. Naniwa decided not only to throw the game, but also to rob the fans of any sort of enjoyment. I would have been happy if he had done a Carrier rush, because at least as crazy as those are they have at least won a few times. NaNiwa lazily selected his probes and A-moved them to his opponent's base, and walked off from the booth. | ||
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FidoDido
United States1292 Posts
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ggahSoO
United States191 Posts
On December 13 2011 22:45 aquanda wrote: The Astros actually played a game, which is much different than what Naniwa did. He walked on the field, lazily threw the ball at the catcher, and walked off. Doing a 1 base allin is quite different than selecting 7 probes and A-moving across the map in hopes your opponent had a heart attack at the start of the game. Naniwa decided not only to throw the game, but also to rob the fans of any sort of enjoyment. I would have been happy if he had done a Carrier rush, because at least as crazy as those are they have at least won a few times. Actually, NaNiwa played the game, just like the Astros did. And he used a strategy, just like the Astros, that he know didn't have as high of a win rate as playing at full strength. He did also not rob the fans of any sort of enjoyment. You did not enjoy what he did. He didn't take anything from you. I personally thought it was hilarious. Unprofessional? Extremely. Rude? Most likely. But he for sure did not take away anything from me, or anyone else. And as long as he didn't break any rules that GSL made him agree to, I see no problem in what he did. | ||
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BasilForSkin
United States115 Posts
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MayorITC
Korea (South)798 Posts
Terrible comparison. Teams send their B-team in these circumstances to give them experience for the sake of team growth. Naniwa threw the match because he was upset. Even then, the B-team will try their hardest to win as unlikely as it is. A-moving with probes then going AFK is not the same thing. A more accurate comparison would be throwing the first pitch then lying there on the field. | ||
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Krelush
Philippines17 Posts
Its because of this that I think you can't compare a team sending out its B-lineup in a game to what NaNiwa did. What NaNiwa did is more like.. telling all your players to go home, cause its a waste of time, and letting your team's waterboys, towelboys, cheerleaders, and what not to play the game for you. | ||
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leo23
United States3075 Posts
On December 13 2011 22:50 ggahSoO wrote: Actually, NaNiwa played the game, just like the Astros did. And he used a strategy, just like the Astros, that he know didn't have as high of a win rate as playing at full strength. He did also not rob the fans of any sort of enjoyment. You did not enjoy what he did. He didn't take anything from you. I personally thought it was hilarious. Unprofessional? Extremely. Rude? Most likely. But he for sure did not take away anything from me, or anyone else. And as long as he didn't break any rules that GSL made him agree to, I see no problem in what he did. What about people like me who payed to see some "competitive" games? | ||
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Crashburn
United States476 Posts
On December 13 2011 22:50 ggahSoO wrote: Actually, NaNiwa played the game, just like the Astros did. And he used a strategy, just like the Astros, that he know didn't have as high of a win rate as playing at full strength. He did also not rob the fans of any sort of enjoyment. You did not enjoy what he did. He didn't take anything from you. I personally thought it was hilarious. Unprofessional? Extremely. Rude? Most likely. But he for sure did not take away anything from me, or anyone else. And as long as he didn't break any rules that GSL made him agree to, I see no problem in what he did. FWIW, I have similar discussions with people who are very anti-PED (performance-enhancing drugs). People have a hard time separating their personal morals from the actual rules, often conflating the two. I see a lot of that going on lately. | ||
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aderum
Sweden1459 Posts
On December 13 2011 22:48 leo23 wrote: please read my words naniwa had no real chances of winning with a probe rush against a professional player like nestea. he wanted to lose, what can't you understand from that? stephano did a strategy that while it has a low win percentage, it can certainly work. He did want a short game are you actually trying to defend stephano but not naniwa? 6pooling against a terran twice is just as fucking bad as worker rushing, PLUS, stephano made it so cloud almost advanced instead of someone else. You cant defend only one of them, either you think both is wrong or that no one is wrong. | ||
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Itsmedudeman
United States19229 Posts
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Pandinus
Sweden29 Posts
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ReboundEU
508 Posts
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Samahoj
Sweden109 Posts
On December 13 2011 22:51 MayorITC wrote: Did the B-team line-up try their best though? not sure if you're serious. the team didn't, that's what it's about.. | ||
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laguu
Finland278 Posts
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StrinterN
Denmark531 Posts
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reapsen
Germany559 Posts
i have no clue about baseball (because i come from europe), but in team sports, matches that doesn`t really matter occur all the time. In almost every groupstage or qualifier tournament in any football-tournament (and by football, of course i mean soccer), whether it is a club-tournament like the UEFA Champions League or nationality tournament like the FIFA World Cup qualifiers. But rarely ever will you see such a game beeing thrown away by either one of the participating teams. Of course, its absolutely common for those matches to be played with what you can call a "b-lineup", e.g. players that are normally sitting on the bench. But here comes my point: You cannot compare those kind of matches with what naniwa has done today. - In every football match, as well as in other physical sport, there is always the risk of injuries. So many coaches put that risk into account, when they put their A-Lineup on the bench. - Its a teamsport! You have group-dynamics in there. Players that rarely play will get frustrated and so on. Another reason for letting them play in matches that "doenst matter". My point is, that a physical teamsport (like baseball) cannot be compared with a 1v1 mind-sport (like sc2). The question is: What would have Naniwa discouraged from playing a "regular" game, e.g. trying his best to win it. Risk of injury? No. Giving other players a chance? No. Group-Dynamics? No. Waste of his time? Okay, sure. Maybe 30minutes of his lifetime would have been wasted. But whats on the upside?! 1. There are people out there who actually like this guy. Maybe they even payed for the HD-Pass only to watch him play. He could have entertained those guys. 2. He is on the television. The longer his face is up there and he puts up a good show, the more his reputation will rise. What this means for his team and sponsors is obvious. 3. Sportsmanship. Its just the basic principle of going into any competetive match with an adversary. You give your best, no matter what. Its called respect. The talk about proberushing beeing a "valid strategy" with non-zero chances of winnig is ridiculous, by the way. I think you missjudged the situation. He was just selfish in this moment. He was pissed because of his previous games and did not think a second of his obligations to other people. This is what you call unprofessionalism. If he wanted a fast game - fine. Just do the best 4gate you can. If you lose, whatever. Everybody will be happy. You gave it a shot with a legitimate all-in tactic and it didn't work, no biggie. If you win, even better! It would have cost him 8 more minutes of lifetime, but all this shitstorm would have been avoided EASILY! | ||
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