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A Rational Take on the Naniwa Situation - Page 4

Blogs > Crashburn
Post a Reply
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Newbistic
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
China2912 Posts
December 13 2011 13:56 GMT
#61
I think you are right GomTV needs to have physical rules written out if they wish to curb any type of behavior. As it stands, Naniwa hasn't violated anything. If his team Quantic has any beef with Naniwa, I'm sure they'll settle it behind the scenes.

But then again, mob mentality is extremely strong amongst masses of people. When people smell a potential crucifixion they are going to do their damndest to see it carried out.
Logic is Overrated
Samahoj
Profile Joined November 2010
Sweden109 Posts
December 13 2011 13:56 GMT
#62
On December 13 2011 22:55 laguu wrote:
Funny thing is, nobody seems to have a problem when idra skips his consolation matches at mlg

of course not, he could just give the excuse that he was busy/didn't know and it's all forgotten..
MORROW, NANIWA, SASE, THORZAIN, SORTOF | NTH, PULSE, LGD.INT
m3deman
Profile Joined May 2010
United States68 Posts
December 13 2011 13:57 GMT
#63
Great write up, and I whole-heartedly agree. And to add to this, I'm actually very surprised people, who have all been watching Naniwa for months if not years now, were surprised he did something like this. He's always been like this and he's not going to change.

I'm not a Naniwa fan because of his personality (although sometimes it can be very funny imo), I'm a fan because he's an exceptional player. There are a million analogies with professional sports players that we could make that were very similar to this.
Poonchow
Profile Joined September 2010
United States56 Posts
December 13 2011 13:57 GMT
#64
I agree that the fault is completely with the tournament structure. A BO1 Round-Robin format is terrible and says almost nothing about the skill of these players. As the writer authoring the previews for the Blizzard Cup said, you play this out 10 more times and you are likely to see 10 different results.

BO1s are terrible.
pseudocalm
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada98 Posts
December 13 2011 13:57 GMT
#65
Totally agree with the OP. Gom has never made players play meaningless games in group stages before, ever. Why they decided to start today with naniwa is beyond me. It's silly.
I'd put my sensor tower in her minimap
mireath
Profile Joined May 2011
30 Posts
December 13 2011 13:58 GMT
#66
On December 13 2011 22:15 Crashburn wrote:
[...]
Secondly, the ire directed at Naniwa assumes a worker rush is not a valid strategy. No, a worker rush is not a high-percentage strategy, but it is non-zero, which makes it valid nonetheless. If we are to harangue Naniwa for probe-rushing, then what is to stop us from doing the same with other similarly-fateful strategies?
[...]


Well, that's the problem. This wasn't a worker rush. He took his probes crossmap, and on arrival didn't micro them the slightest. That "strategy" had exactly 0% chance of succeeding.
Slider954
Profile Joined March 2011
United States342 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-13 14:02:06
December 13 2011 13:59 GMT
#67
On December 13 2011 22:52 Crashburn wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 13 2011 22:50 ggahSoO wrote:
On December 13 2011 22:45 aquanda wrote:
The Astros actually played a game, which is much different than what Naniwa did. He walked on the field, lazily threw the ball at the catcher, and walked off. Doing a 1 base allin is quite different than selecting 7 probes and A-moving across the map in hopes your opponent had a heart attack at the start of the game. Naniwa decided not only to throw the game, but also to rob the fans of any sort of enjoyment. I would have been happy if he had done a Carrier rush, because at least as crazy as those are they have at least won a few times.


Actually, NaNiwa played the game, just like the Astros did. And he used a strategy, just like the Astros, that he know didn't have as high of a win rate as playing at full strength.

He did also not rob the fans of any sort of enjoyment. You did not enjoy what he did. He didn't take anything from you. I personally thought it was hilarious. Unprofessional? Extremely. Rude? Most likely. But he for sure did not take away anything from me, or anyone else. And as long as he didn't break any rules that GSL made him agree to, I see no problem in what he did.


FWIW, I have similar discussions with people who are very anti-PED (performance-enhancing drugs). People have a hard time separating their personal morals from the actual rules, often conflating the two. I see a lot of that going on lately.


He didn't use any strategy, he threw his probes away, he had no intention of trying to win. He A-moved his workers, took his hands off the keyboard and let them die. Thats not a strat. He didn't micro them at all, he just basically said I want to lose and get this over with. There was no effort on his part whatsoever to win. As for your point as to whether it was against the rules of the tourney, yes I'll give you that.
But I'll be willing the bet that his team will have words with him as I'm pretty sure that in his contract there are RULES regarding this kind of behavior
Best in the world at what I do
Glurkenspurk
Profile Joined November 2010
United States1915 Posts
December 13 2011 13:59 GMT
#68
On December 13 2011 22:56 Newbistic wrote:
I think you are right GomTV needs to have physical rules written out if they wish to curb any type of behavior. As it stands, Naniwa hasn't violated anything. If his team Quantic has any beef with Naniwa, I'm sure they'll settle it behind the scenes.

But then again, mob mentality is extremely strong amongst masses of people. When people smell a potential crucifixion they are going to do their damndest to see it carried out.


If gom would put a ban on specific builds and strategies just because they aren't fun to watch, gsl would be a joke.
Chriscras
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Korea (South)2812 Posts
December 13 2011 14:01 GMT
#69
Dude my new favorite voice in the SC2 community :D
"En taro adun, Executor."
Huggerz
Profile Joined May 2011
Great Britain919 Posts
December 13 2011 14:02 GMT
#70
Whether what he did was 'wrong' or not, I do not really care. I think he was in an extremely priveleged position many, many very good players who could have given Nestea a good game would die for, and he did not even bother to attempt to play a game for no valid reason. This and many previous events give me an extremely negative opinion on him. I do not see why anyone should sympathise with him, whether the game was 'meaningless' or not, I agree with Nazgul that it is disrespectful to everyone involved.

Something that boggles my mind, is that Korean players who always try to play entertaining games for fans, while playing to win, gain less fans than someone like him

“It's like poker. You can play your best, but you've got to know when to fold your cards and take a rest, and know when to hold your cards, hold your breath and hope that nobody else is stacking the deck."
crowbar
Profile Joined August 2009
Sweden21 Posts
December 13 2011 14:03 GMT
#71
Naniwa wouldnt even be able to bring an entertaining match. His mind was set on forfeit before the match and he forfeited. He saw that the match would not help him towards his goals in any way so he ignored the match and set his mind on the next challenge.

Some ppl will always hate.
pulvret
Profile Joined February 2011
Sweden10 Posts
December 13 2011 14:03 GMT
#72
i agree with op. 100%.
jinro fanboi.
dolvlo
Profile Joined December 2010
United States99 Posts
December 13 2011 14:04 GMT
#73
I'm laughing for real at all of the people who are so mad over this. It was a pointless game, a waste of the viewers time. The fact that GOM didn't strike this match from the tournament is a joke. It should never have happened.
bayaka
Profile Joined September 2011
Canada102 Posts
December 13 2011 14:04 GMT
#74
This seems like a completely irrelevant example. The team was trying to get exposure and experience for it's players who don't get to play as much, it's pretty common for sports teams to do that. Think about who gets put in the game when a basketball team is down by 50 with 2 minutes to go...

It seems like the bigger issue here is the fact that this guy is 23(?) and he acts like a fifteen year old kid. I can possibly understand if it was somebody that Naniwa had no history with, but to probe rush somebody you have a competitive relationship and rivalry with is pretty infuriating. Essentially what Naniwa did was take the option to play the game from NesTea. If you think about it, this match isn't going to be remembered as a NesTea victory, it's going to be remembered as Naniwa being immature and throwing the game. That kind of disrespect for your opponent is messed up.

He actually just quit, he basically told NesTea that he wasn't worth his time. To hear that Nestea stayed up into the night on his birthday practicing for his match against Naniwa makes it all the more agitating. I'm tired of attention being devoted to such a big man-child. I don't want to hear his excuse, I don't want to watch his games, I don't want to have him constantly be this "controversial" topic, I just want him to either shut up completely and man up, or go away forever.
laguu
Profile Joined October 2009
Finland278 Posts
December 13 2011 14:05 GMT
#75
Can u post this on reddit? So many fools out there who need to read this.
Arguing with a fool proves there are two.
Crashburn
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States476 Posts
December 13 2011 14:06 GMT
#76
On December 13 2011 23:05 laguu wrote:
Can u post this on reddit? So many fools out there who need to read this.


Someone linked it there already: http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/naykf/a_rational_take_on_the_naniwa_situation_from_espn/
Newbistic
Profile Blog Joined August 2006
China2912 Posts
December 13 2011 14:06 GMT
#77
On December 13 2011 22:59 Odal wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 13 2011 22:56 Newbistic wrote:
I think you are right GomTV needs to have physical rules written out if they wish to curb any type of behavior. As it stands, Naniwa hasn't violated anything. If his team Quantic has any beef with Naniwa, I'm sure they'll settle it behind the scenes.

But then again, mob mentality is extremely strong amongst masses of people. When people smell a potential crucifixion they are going to do their damndest to see it carried out.


If gom would put a ban on specific builds and strategies just because they aren't fun to watch, gsl would be a joke.


Attack-moving with all of your workers and taking your hands off of the keyboard is hardly a strategy. It's deliberately throwing a game. It would be like calling deliberately scoring an own goal in soccer a "strategy".

I don't have an opinion on whether or not Gom actually needs rules, but in the event that they DO want to rule out this sort of behavior (i.e. deliberately throwing games), they'll need to have the rules on physical paper.
Logic is Overrated
dolvlo
Profile Joined December 2010
United States99 Posts
December 13 2011 14:07 GMT
#78
On December 13 2011 23:06 Newbistic wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 13 2011 22:59 Odal wrote:
On December 13 2011 22:56 Newbistic wrote:
I think you are right GomTV needs to have physical rules written out if they wish to curb any type of behavior. As it stands, Naniwa hasn't violated anything. If his team Quantic has any beef with Naniwa, I'm sure they'll settle it behind the scenes.

But then again, mob mentality is extremely strong amongst masses of people. When people smell a potential crucifixion they are going to do their damndest to see it carried out.


If gom would put a ban on specific builds and strategies just because they aren't fun to watch, gsl would be a joke.


Attack-moving with all of your workers and taking your hands off of the keyboard is hardly a strategy. It's deliberately throwing a game. It would be like calling deliberately scoring an own goal in soccer a "strategy".

I don't have an opinion on whether or not Gom actually needs rules, but in the event that they DO want to rule out this sort of behavior (i.e. deliberately throwing games), they'll need to have the rules on physical paper.



It's throwing a game that's meaningless. It's literally the same as throwing a televised practice game.
Rossi
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Australia59 Posts
December 13 2011 14:08 GMT
#79
Although i would of loved to have watched the game, i do feel the onus is on Gom to not broadcast pointless matches. Naniwa doesnt deserve the shit he will get for this action... he really should think things through a bit more though.

Well written blog nonetheless :D
Aye, Bapa de boopee?
babyToSS
Profile Joined December 2009
233 Posts
December 13 2011 14:09 GMT
#80
I don't agree with the analogy. He didnt probe rush (although bad but a valid tsrategy), he took his hands off the keyboard. I guess people are over-reacting a little but as someone who stayed up late for the match, I was pretty disappointed.
babyToSS here! Can u go easy on me plzzz?
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