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I'll keep it short and sweet.
When Heart of The Swarm comes out, all the balance that went into WoL is going to shit. Matchups will be crazy broken, some races will be better than others by a lot.
So I think that for tournament play we should stick to WoL until the ladder results are fairly equal in the masters/gm level. The reason I say masters and grandmasters, is because those are the only leagues where you can reliably find people with >50% winrate. Everyone below is going to have extremely close to 50% win rate as a result to the system matching you with better and better players, thus making the data inconclusive. (Yeah, David Kim...)
I don't want GSL with 0 Protoss, 1 Zerg and the rest to be Terran. I don't want it to be the other away around where protoss players have Oracles with too high energy regeneration and you can never mine your minerals ever.
I like WoL. I think everything is perfectly balanced, fun to watch and can support REAL competition. In HoTS you know there is going to be Swarm Host rushes. If you don't know what I am talking about, enter the HoTS custom game and watch your Swarm Host 1 shot a nexus.
Now go flame me for being a person who hates change or something like that.
  
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random HOTS custom map =/= HOTS 1.0
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On December 06 2011 02:12 ig0tfish wrote:
Beta testing.
Yeah, so WoL was perfectly balanced after beta? Amiright?
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On December 06 2011 02:13 Thaniri wrote:Yeah, so WoL was perfectly balanced after beta? Amiright?
Much better than it was before.
Remember 1 supply roaches?
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Pretty much. That is the only reason why I wanted HotS to be released sooner rather than later. I know the story and single player stuff, as well as designs to keep people interested is required, but at this rate, I am going to assume late 2012, and thus early 2015 for LotV. Give it a year and a half to balance out like WoL has begun to do, and that gives late 2016 or early 2017. Seven years wasted in my opinion is way too late. That would mean every tournament was essentially pointless up to that point.
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Yeah there are going to be Swarm Host rushes, and Oracle rushes, and every other type of rush under the sun. But that's going to be true for any new game being released, just as it was for WoL (remember the reaper?). It will all be balanced and patched out in time, that's just the nature of the beast.
Personally, I'm going to dig all the craziness and balance woes. WoL will be around, it isn't going anywhere, and some people may even have a hard time transitioning out of it. But it's still Starcraft, and it's definetly still exciting. It took ~a year for WoL to balance out to the level that it is now, hopefully the new game can reach a relative middle ground a little faster.
Oh, and
On December 06 2011 02:08 Thaniri wrote:
Now go flame me for being a person who hates change or something like that.
will probably just get you more flaming ^^
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I bet if this would be 1997 you would talk about how BW would f*** everything up.
Point is,
people will always complain. While these changes CAN be bad and WILL be at first, with a well thought out concept balancing changes will be possible and therefore changes will turn out to be good.
Saying "Swarm Hosts 1shot nexi, so hots will be bad" is just an uneducated rant about something. Don't do that.
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I thought HotS has already been out for about 1 month at least. From all of the hype I got.
When is it going to be available?
Well, I have no idea about the impact on the pro players. They certainly had it in their mind when deciding to go pro. But hopefully there are going to be some crazy new strategies 
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Why are we construing this as a rant/ HotS bash? This is a valid suggestion based on the historically true fact that recently released games are more imbalanced than a drunk with Meniere's disease.
The suggestion for tournaments to not immediately pick up HotS is valid, but without tournaments picking it up, pros would have little motivation to practice it and thus we would lose one of our primary sources of strategic innovation, making effective balance extremely difficult to acheive.
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On December 06 2011 02:17 Fruscainte wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2011 02:13 Thaniri wrote:On December 06 2011 02:12 ig0tfish wrote:
Beta testing. Yeah, so WoL was perfectly balanced after beta? Amiright? Much better than it was before. Remember 1 supply roaches?
Yes, and I also remember 2 supply roaches with damn near melee range. Holy fuck they were bad.
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IMO take a break of like 1 month for tournaments like GSL and then resume normally. Yes, the gameplay will be more volatile than some would like, but it really isn't that big of a deal.
Also, right after HOTS comes out is probably the biggest chance TLO will ever get to win a GSL.
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Good Lord. Be excited that Blizzard is making a new, and definitely epic, game. How can you possibly balance whine when you haven't even seen any alpha-testing footage? How can you possibly justify whining about potential balance problems.
I also don't accept your premise that any alleged balance problems will be with Terran. For a year and a half, people have whined about Terran being overpowered; do you really think Blizzard is going to make a new game without making sure Terran has minimal possibility of being imbalanced?
If you're not excited about an SC2 expansion, you shouldn't play it.
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Yeah, sure. Staying on WoL for tournament play would be "safer" for balance. Sadly, you seem to be forgetting that safety is often the opposite of progress. Of course the game's going to be absolutely crazy for the first few months. But if we (or more importantly, the best of the best) do not start enduring that chaos, nobody will be able to bend and shape the game, thus augmenting the painful stage in which WoL was a little over a year ago.
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On December 06 2011 04:35 niteReloaded wrote:
Also, right after HOTS comes out is probably the biggest chance TLO will ever get to win a GSL.
HAHAHA this was golden
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As soon as beta hits everyone will be playing. I would hope blizzard would be just as active as thy were during WoL beta. (patching issues weekly)
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i dont get it. it's not even in beta yet and you are saying that the balance will be shit. rofl. give it some time people.
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The problem with this is that the people who decide to move to HOTS immediately will have a huge advantage when the switch does occur. If you follow this route tournaments have two options
- Set a date in the future for a switch
For example, say six months after release the tournament will switch. Well this just means that as you approach this deadline people will start switching and just not take part in the current tournament setup. This devalues the current tournaments until they actually switch and then you still have to deal with balance. It doesn't solve the problem.
- Switch without prior warning
This completely screws over pros who haven't already switched in their practice. So pros will switch early in an attempt to be ready before tournaments switch.
Moral of the story. If you are a pro switch as soon as possible. Yes you will have a slump in your current play but as tournaments will all switch over it makes sense to preempt that switch. In the long run you do better.
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EPT
