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I agree with the part about the lag and how it shouldn't be tolerated.
I also sort of agree with the part about TV playing ads and stuff.
As a BW fan though, you could definitely have formatted/worded it better. It's like the inverse equivalent of some SC2 fan shitting on our game because of the 12 year old graphics.
Personally, I do sort of agree that this "ESPORTS" thing is a bit too flashy for my taste. It's nice to have GSL, you can watch over the internet, talk about Korean culture, tell about South Korea's history w/ the PC bangs.
MLG brings a different flavor, and for some reason, I don't like it as much. It's not cause of the fact that there are fewer Koreans, but the fact that we're trying to sell SC2 as a product when I still think the players and the games are pretty mediocre at best.
We have ads for energy drinks, computer parts, and gaming equipment. It's not exactly mainstream at all. Only gamers would be the main consumers of those things. You read about the history of CJ entus, and how the Xellos and Co. would have to use their prize money to buy food for themselves, and suddenly CJ, a food company, decides to sponsor them. Personally I find that that sort of thing applied to S. Korea coz they had this momentum with the PC Bangs and their economic crisis. If you were to make these things apply to the west, there would have to be a removal of the stigma that is already there. Like, even though BW is good, the games are epic, I wouldn't talk to anyone I know about it.
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Russian Federation3632 Posts
Your argument would be stronger if it wasn't rife with false / unproven premises.
It is the final point that I think is most discriminating: watchability makes a sport. The ability of someone uninitiated to the rules and formalities to immediately grasp the level of skill required to play, and immediately be awestruck by superior performance; the inability of players to give it anything short of everything.
So...is bad posting an eSport?
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why is it always BW zealots starting these BW against SC2 flamewars. This doesnt help anyone
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Oh okay, so you give your opinion and say that it's a fact,
pretend to read people's mind ("you are not having fun!"),
know who "we" are ("nerds"),
and many other points that ruin the few very good points you make here and there.
For example, you seem to hold BW in a superior level; but the truth is, SC1 and SC2 are just the... same. A video game.
One can argue that the first one requires more skill, but does chess require skill to play? You can actually be quite good at the game after a year of practice. I was quite good when I was 8 years old.
The skill cap is just a fancy and artificial way to elevate anything above something else with no other apparent reason.
You could do amazing tricks in a basketball court, but a nice 3-pointer will be just as amazing. The skillcap is an excuse.
Having played BW, I can tell that the big differences I see is years and years of experimenting strategies, AND to be more demanding in terms of hand speed. But really, if I want to see who has the fastest hands, I'll just download a few episodes of America's got talent.
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On December 01 2011 08:24 419 wrote:
Your argument would be stronger if it wasn't rife with false / unproven premises.
There are no premises. Just biased statements. I'm sure you can fill in your own premises as necessary for your individual level of agreement. If you don't agree at all, then I would have wasted my time trying to convince you with vain argument.
It's easier for both of us if you just agree in full.
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On December 01 2011 08:30 Kukaracha wrote:
pretend to read people's mind ("you are not having fun!"),
If you say it three times and click your ruby slippers, it comes true.
know who "we" are ("nerds"),
This is an Internet video game forum, not a Starbucks. I assume the worst in you.
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Russian Federation3632 Posts
I'm just curious...
Are you an Australian law school student?
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Define what a nerd is, then. Especially nowadays that a computer is a big part of a lot of people's lives.
Other than that you seem to just be trolling so, yeah, whatever.
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Sweden33723 Posts
You are an idiot.
Yes, your blog is long but nothing you said deserve any further reply.
. It's not cause of the fact that there are no Koreans, but the fact that we're trying to sell SC2 as a product when I still think the players and the games are pretty mediocre at best
So you've just obviously not watched MLG for the past year or you'd realize there's an absolute shit-ton of Koreans at every MLG.........
Is every matchup in SC2 fun to watch right now? No. Is SC2 fun to watch right now overall? Yes.
Is BW harder? Hell yeah. Is there ANY indication to your average viewer that this is the case? Fuck no. FUCK NO.
How the hell can anyone tell that those 20 gateways are being individually selected as opposed to being on a hotkey?
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I see what you're trying to say. There seems to be quite the "For the glory of eSports!" attitude among the SC2 community.
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On December 01 2011 09:03 Liquid`Jinro wrote:You are an idiot. Yes, your blog is long but nothing you said deserve any further reply. Show nested quote +. It's not cause of the fact that there are no Koreans, but the fact that we're trying to sell SC2 as a product when I still think the players and the games are pretty mediocre at best So you've just obviously not watched MLG for the past year or you'd realize there's an absolute shit-ton of Koreans at every MLG......... Is every matchup in SC2 fun to watch right now? No. Is SC2 fun to watch right now overall? Yes. Is BW harder? Hell yeah. Is there ANY indication to your average viewer that this is the case? Fuck no. FUCK NO. How the hell can anyone tell that those 20 gateways are being individually selected as opposed to being on a hotkey?
This, OP is an idiot and obviously has no idea what he's talking about.
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On December 01 2011 09:03 Liquid`Jinro wrote:You are an idiot. Yes, your blog is long but nothing you said deserve any further reply. Show nested quote +. It's not cause of the fact that there are no Koreans, but the fact that we're trying to sell SC2 as a product when I still think the players and the games are pretty mediocre at best So you've just obviously not watched MLG for the past year or you'd realize there's an absolute shit-ton of Koreans at every MLG......... Is every matchup in SC2 fun to watch right now? No. Is SC2 fun to watch right now overall? Yes. Is BW harder? Hell yeah. Is there ANY indication to your average viewer that this is the case? Fuck no. FUCK NO. How the hell can anyone tell that those 20 gateways are being individually selected as opposed to being on a hotkey?
I know that BW is considered harder just due to the amount of APM that has to be spent macroing...
But I saw a glimmer of something I had not before seen when MVP played Leenock in the semifinals of the GSL this season... all of the APM that would have been used for macro was funneled purely into harassing and attacking. It was insane.
It gave me a shiver of what we can expect to come. 5 pronged attacks, each individually micro'd, all at the same time, repeated over and over as units keep pumping out as attacks get deflected. Defenders having to be all over the place, perfectly splitting their army to deal with all the attacks, and microing them all simultaneously.
We're reaching the point when people have way more to do in a game than they have the APM for, which is when it begins to equal the difficulty of BW.
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You just wrote like 10 paragraphs on a Starcraft fansite about how you don't like Starcraft. None of use are forcing you to like starcraft, but please don't belittle us for liking it.
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On December 01 2011 09:26 Gnial wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 09:03 Liquid`Jinro wrote:You are an idiot. Yes, your blog is long but nothing you said deserve any further reply. . It's not cause of the fact that there are no Koreans, but the fact that we're trying to sell SC2 as a product when I still think the players and the games are pretty mediocre at best So you've just obviously not watched MLG for the past year or you'd realize there's an absolute shit-ton of Koreans at every MLG......... Is every matchup in SC2 fun to watch right now? No. Is SC2 fun to watch right now overall? Yes. Is BW harder? Hell yeah. Is there ANY indication to your average viewer that this is the case? Fuck no. FUCK NO. How the hell can anyone tell that those 20 gateways are being individually selected as opposed to being on a hotkey? I know that BW is considered harder just due to the amount of APM that has to be spent macroing... But I saw a glimmer of something I had not before seen when MVP played Leenock in the semifinals of the GSL this season... all of the APM that would have been used for macro was funneled purely into harassing and attacking. It was insane. It gave me a shiver of what we can expect to come. 5 pronged attacks, each individually micro'd, all at the same time, repeated over and over as units keep pumping out as attacks get deflected. Defenders having to be all over the place, perfectly splitting their army to deal with all the attacks, and microing them all simultaneously. We're reaching the point when people have way more to do in a game than they have the APM for, which is when it begins to equal the difficulty of BW.
You're talking about the point where Leenock was right clicking infestor without energy across the map or what ? That serie was enjoyable, but I was not exactly watching the same stuff as people in the LR thread.
I'd also love to see your 5 pronged attack.
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Why did I just waste three minutes of my life reading that tripe?
Jesus OP, you could have just written "I hate SC2 and will support this view with nothing more than conjecture" and saved us all having to read that.
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United States7639 Posts
On December 01 2011 07:38 Jibba wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 05:53 Sgonzo wrote:
BW is slower paced then sc2 is why it isn't as enjoyable for fans to watch, i think this is numebr one reason why starcraft 2 is so popular because it improved upon one of the biggest points for why eSports wasnt popular the pace was all wrong. look at other competitive RTS games Company Of Heroes, Dawn of War they are super slow paced like brood war, so while the garnered decent fanbases and made it into eSports tournaments they have not lasted so well other then BW, this is where sc2 has moved ahead of other games it retains its straight up and down RTS gameplay while pushing the pace to something much faster and engaging.
my 2nd point to give direct comparisons between BW and sc2 is look at all the cool units that never get use in BW such as corsairs, we have a game that been around for longer then 10 years and its soooooo perfect that the pros dont use all the units please..... the unit balancing is so much better in sc2 then in brood war.(ZvZ in BW was always mutas..... boring) Ahahahhahahahahhahahahahhahahhahahahha AHahhahahahhahahahhahhahahhahhahaha Ahahahhahahahhahahahhahaahhahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahahahahha
That was easily the most hilarious thing I've read all day.
People don't use corsairs. I guess Horang2 missed that memo last night.
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Nothing more than a SC2 hate thread, there isn't much meat in this post at all.
But my suggestion is that many SC2 fans shouldn't make a fool of themselves either, as they know little of Brood War.
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haha i hope youre being sarcastic.
if not, i guess youre just a troll. or some bronze kid who got frustrated and decided to go on a meaningless rant.
although i will say that your arguments are pretty funny in a completely biased, petulant way
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On December 01 2011 09:26 Gnial wrote:Show nested quote +On December 01 2011 09:03 Liquid`Jinro wrote:You are an idiot. Yes, your blog is long but nothing you said deserve any further reply. . It's not cause of the fact that there are no Koreans, but the fact that we're trying to sell SC2 as a product when I still think the players and the games are pretty mediocre at best So you've just obviously not watched MLG for the past year or you'd realize there's an absolute shit-ton of Koreans at every MLG......... Is every matchup in SC2 fun to watch right now? No. Is SC2 fun to watch right now overall? Yes. Is BW harder? Hell yeah. Is there ANY indication to your average viewer that this is the case? Fuck no. FUCK NO. How the hell can anyone tell that those 20 gateways are being individually selected as opposed to being on a hotkey? I know that BW is considered harder just due to the amount of APM that has to be spent macroing... But I saw a glimmer of something I had not before seen when MVP played Leenock in the semifinals of the GSL this season... all of the APM that would have been used for macro was funneled purely into harassing and attacking. It was insane. It gave me a shiver of what we can expect to come. 5 pronged attacks, each individually micro'd, all at the same time, repeated over and over as units keep pumping out as attacks get deflected. Defenders having to be all over the place, perfectly splitting their army to deal with all the attacks, and microing them all simultaneously. We're reaching the point when people have way more to do in a game than they have the APM for, which is when it begins to equal the difficulty of BW.
APM in BW is just spent macroing? That is a lie. There is more APM because there is no MBS, but it's not the main reason for more APM.
Well that's mainly our point. 5 pronged attacks? Surely you saw ForGG demolish Polt. That's sort of what we are talking about. His banshees were all over Polt's face.
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Opinionated. Cynical. Polarising. Apocalyptic.
You are either a masterful troll or a crazy dictatorial BW fanatic.
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EPT
