• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 04:58
CET 10:58
KST 18:58
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!12[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
Dark completes military service, returns to SC26[BSL23] RO16 Group Stage17Weekly Cups (Nov 2-8): herO back on top?2Weekly Cups (Oct 26 - Nov 1): MaxPax, herO, Solar win0Weekly Cups (October 19-25): Clem triples first in 5.0.175
StarCraft 2
General
Dark completes military service, returns to SC2 No more SC2 streamers on team liquid? Greetings.. Serral's getting trashed by New Catsle's Mind Weekly Cups (Nov 2-8): herO back on top?
Tourneys
Dark returns! GSL CK #7 4v4 Team Battle (Nov 19) Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) soO & FanTaSy return! SC2 Kevin Scrim 4v4 (Nov 16) RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 Tasteless Time Warp: SC Evo Showmatch (May 25)
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
[G] How to playtest arcade maps Starcraft 2 Advance [D] the control group Simple Questions/Answers
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 551 Robotic Revival Mutation # 550 Graveyard Shift Mutation # 549 Endless Sparkles
Brood War
General
List of top players active on ShieldBattery Recommended BW Settings for Mouse and Video BW General Discussion Starcraft:Brood War Discord Servers [BSL23] RO16 Group Stage
Tourneys
2v2v2v2 Tournament Stage 1: Community Poll [BSL23] Ro16 Group C - Sunday 21:00 CET Small VOD Thread 2.0 CSLAN 4 is Coming!
Strategy
Pluto's TvP 5Marine 2Medic Push Infested Terran strategies in 2026 Nuke strategy worked in K-League 2026-11-09 50,000-Word Terran Builds Memo 2026-10-22
Other Games
General Games
Free Space RTS Game, optimised f. Phone/Tablet etc Nintendo Switch Thread List of Game Threads The PlayStation 5 Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread
Dota 2
Can Game Data Analytics Help Players Improvements
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Trading/Investing Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Dating: How's your luck?
Fan Clubs
Fan Club Resource Thread Reynor Fan Club The Flash Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 Football (Soccer) Thread MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
VCT 2027 America Kickoff LAT…
anakin.
The time I organised my…
AssyrianKing
Why I built Repalyzer (1.1.…
BlueStar
Innovate or Game Over?
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 12797 users

eSports is hurting eSports - Page 11

Blogs > mmp
Post a Reply
Prev 1 9 10 11 All
Sawamura
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Malaysia7602 Posts
December 05 2011 09:09 GMT
#201
5/5 from me , I really like the idea that you give broodwar as a legitimate sport and sc2 as something a "grandma would be playing to pass time " . Which of course as a broodwar fan I am happy about it , although people on the other side who plays the same game would not be so happy about it .....
BW/KT Forever R.I.P KT.Violet dearly missed ..
jalstar
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
United States8198 Posts
December 05 2011 09:27 GMT
#202
I disagree with almost the entire article, although I'm still pretty sympathetic to the BW > SC2 argument. American football is actually the one of the most strategically deep team sports in the world, just read a few articles on http://www.smartfootball.com to see what I mean. Second of all, soccer IS shown on ESPN with no commercial breaks, so there's no reason ESPN can't show long games. But the most important thing is that for thousands of people worldwide, eSports is fun. It's a new thing beyond the game for people to enjoy, and Barcrafts are simply a way to get together and enjoy it. No one's forcing it to be mainstream, people are just getting together and doing what they like.
Ktk
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Korea (South)753 Posts
December 05 2011 10:45 GMT
#203
Starcraft is not fun to play for most people, Starcraft is not fun to watch for most people.

TL is the 1%
LunaSea
Profile Joined October 2011
Luxembourg369 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-05 11:45:06
December 05 2011 11:42 GMT
#204
Are "great games" in your mind only vintage / old graphics ? Because if it is your opinion is really flawed.

If you don't follow the natural evolution of games you won't ever get "eSport". How many Donky Kong MLG's / OSL's did you watched in the last 10-20 years ?

On December 05 2011 19:45 Ktk wrote:
Starcraft is not fun to play for most people, Starcraft is not fun to watch for most people.

TL is the 1%


Omg, there are so dumb people sometimes...
"Your f*cking wrong, but I respect your opinion" --Day[9]
dakalro
Profile Joined September 2010
Romania525 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-05 12:45:25
December 05 2011 12:42 GMT
#205
Such a waste of bits and effort. Sorry, it's just YOU that knows it's inferior to Broodwar. It's just YOU that knows it's boring to watch. Don't state YOUR opinions as fact, they're not.

"Thriving Broodward community" - really, I would think that outside of Korea SC2 following is 10x the size of what Broodwar had on SC2 launch. I'm sorry to say but it's not quality of the community that makes a sport, it's quantity, football is a great example of that. Out of my current WoW guild I'm the only guy that has ever played BW yet 5-6 people still play SC2. Of course they're all kids barely over 20 but still.

What version is the expansion Starcraft Broodwar on now?
ymir233
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States8275 Posts
December 05 2011 15:05 GMT
#206
Mmm...nothing like the smell of napalm rampant polarization in the morning.
Come motivate me to be cynical about animus at http://infinityandone.blogspot.com/ // Stork proxy gates are beautiful.
Sawamura
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Malaysia7602 Posts
December 05 2011 16:26 GMT
#207
On December 05 2011 21:42 dakalro wrote:
Such a waste of bits and effort. Sorry, it's just YOU that knows it's inferior to Broodwar. It's just YOU that knows it's boring to watch. Don't state YOUR opinions as fact, they're not.

"Thriving Broodward community" - really, I would think that outside of Korea SC2 following is 10x the size of what Broodwar had on SC2 launch. I'm sorry to say but it's not quality of the community that makes a sport, it's quantity, football is a great example of that. Out of my current WoW guild I'm the only guy that has ever played BW yet 5-6 people still play SC2. Of course they're all kids barely over 20 but still.

What version is the expansion Starcraft Broodwar on now?


2.156 broodwar you know protoss scouts can shoot lasers and nuclear at the same time and only cost 150 mineral and 150 gas , I am enjoying broodwar now because blizzard is currently nerfing and patching broodwar at the same time . So much love from dustin bowder indeed.
BW/KT Forever R.I.P KT.Violet dearly missed ..
NeonGenesis
Profile Joined September 2005
Norway260 Posts
December 05 2011 16:35 GMT
#208
One big troll blog.

I'll quote Tasteless on this one: "I hate it when people have wrong opinions!"

You say you think SC2 is boring, and then interpret that as meaning that everybody actually feels that SC2 is boring, and are only deluding themselves?

Your entire post does not make sense outside the context of trolling, sir.
It's all good. I just want rainbows, unicorns and machine guns. -Sundance DiGiovanni
Caladbolg
Profile Joined March 2011
2855 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-05 16:39:55
December 05 2011 16:36 GMT
#209
Mixed feelings about it... When I read it quickly (meaning I just skim across the parts that ridicule SC2 and other "sports"), it makes perfect sense. When I read it slowly, I just shake my head cause I know that a flamewar (albeit, a small one) is bound to start between fans of BW and SC2.

I'll just state the part I like the most though:

LAN.

Goddamnit Blizzard. You were the chosen one! It was said that you would destroy the perception that video games were a waste of time, not join the other *coughEAcough* corporations who sacrifice quality for simplicity! You were to bring balance to the nerds, not leave them disconnected!

EDIT: And just because I used a quote from a horrible movie doesn't mean I condone watching it. Star Wars ended 30 years ago.
"I don't like the word prodigy at all. To me prodigy sounds like a person who was 'gifted' all these things rather than a person who earned all these talents by hard training... I must train harder to reach my goal." - Flash
Sgonzo
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada202 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-05 23:57:34
December 05 2011 23:36 GMT
#210
On December 01 2011 08:09 mmp wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 01 2011 07:16 BUfels wrote:
On December 01 2011 07:14 mmp wrote:
On December 01 2011 07:10 BUfels wrote:
Opinions disguised as facts with convincing writing.

Actually, they're opinions disguised as opinions with extremely hasty writing, but thank you for the benefit of the doubt.

If that was all you could rebutt in my entire post, then you don't believe in what you wrote.

How can I rebutt what is not false? Your determination to argue on a factual basis makes strong-arming my argument very difficult!

Unfortunately I think you're focusing on all of the chips and cracks of what I wrote and not looking at the broader sculpture. You don't have to agree with my disparaging portrayal of one sport over another to hold your own biases on the same subject and arrive at your own criteria for discriminating the real sports from the phony.

Show nested quote +

This is very annoying. How can you talk on everybody's behalf? The amount of people watching live events continues to skyrocket. Hundreds of threads on esports appear daily on screddit and TL alone. What twisted world do you live in where the community's general consensus is that the game is boring to watch? Here is an example of an opinion disguised as a fact.

No, sports do NOT come with expansion packs. Or, they didn't in the past. That's because a video game, to date, has not been classified a sport. You know that what prevents an expansion pack from being classified as a sport is NOT the fact that is is an expansion, but because it is a videogame. Convincing writing, but you're full of bullshit.

So we agree, video games are not sports -- unless you're partial to the belief that there is something special about SC2. I feel it too... it's called advertisement. Your tastes and preferences are warped to fit the market, and so we must be living in revolutionary times where anything is possible and your mother and sister will learn Starcraft and there will be stadiums full of cheering fans for... Idra??? (kill me now)

Show nested quote +

What you are doing is mentioning aspects of SC2 and then somehow coming to the conclusion that they are negative, that they prove it can never be a sport. What you are missing is the middleground. Not only do you not have proof to back this up, you don't even have a reason, proof or no proof. "In football, the goalkeeper can use his hands. Thus, it is not a sport". Illogical.

This isn't algebra. It's a hypothesis. Agree with it or not, the preface introduces the body material -- it does need to validate it. That's for you to think about.


Show nested quote +


Your non-nerdy friends...

Oh look, more opinions disguised as facts. I have introduced 4 friends into Starcraft who have actually bought the game, and watched TSL3 with about 8 on my PC back in Summer.

Your friends are nerds (this isn't a bad thing).

Show nested quote +

Barcrafts are another manifestation of this identity crisis. What could be more mainstream than drinking beer and watching "the game" with other young men in the commons? Beer is great, I love beer, but the game sucks, so stop pretending that you're having a good time or that it validates your lifestyle. You're not having a good time, and you're still a nerd. You're a lonely yuppie (or worse, underage!) with nerdy hobbies desperately seeking acceptance inside an alienating society. The bartender doesn't give a fuck what the customers want to watch as long as the hockey/baseball/basketball game is not on and no one else complains. You can attend bar meetups on almost any hobby group if you look hard enough, but your willingness to spend money to be with people just like you is no more of an indicator that eSports is growing than weekend book clubs among housewives are an indicator that competitive literary leagues are on the rise.

Now it's just rambling nonsensical bullshit.

Yes, definitely rambling. Quite shitty.

Show nested quote +
You go to Barcraft, you're enjoying yourself? NO YOU'RE NOT STUPID NERD YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED.

I never said you weren't allowed (who am I to prevent you?). I just said you were going to a bar for all the wrong reasons, reasons we nerds do not like to tell ourselves when we engage in social nerddom. In a nutshell, you're trying to shape the world around your private interests, rather than embracing the world as it is.

Show nested quote +

Foreigners need to stop wishing for South Korea to come to their neighborhood; you cannot force culture. SC2 is an entertainment platform developed by Blizzard, delivered by the Internet streaming sites, promoted by high-end computer hardware manufacturers (i.e. shit you don't need), energy drinks, & other providers of "gamer gear," and ultimately consumed by you, the lonely PC gamer of the Western world who wants a sense of community in his hobbies. The benefactors of this niche market don't care about social recognition, they just want your money. If you advertise it to your friends, that makes "eSports" more money.

So much of what you said there applies to football. Sponsors advertising stupid shit, people looking for a sense of community in their hobbies, "The Man" wanting your money. How do any of these invalidate the concept of SC2 being a sport?

Because SC2 only exists to promote these things, much like the NFL. Without big sponsorship SC2 would be deader than Samir Duran, just a shiny walking corpse that no one takes seriously for its competitive value. The significance attached to skill in SC2 is completely artificial.

Show nested quote +

So when iNcontroL writes that he wants 2012 to be an even bigger year for eSports, he should probably just be satisfied that he's got a home, friends, and a semi-stable career playing a mediocre computer game with some gore and neat explosions. EG is doing better than most. Prize pools may increase under better sponsorship, but the payout is still chancey and not going to improve the quality of life of players. Under the facade of "dedication to the game," players are required to work long hours for little pay (a tiny bunkbed & Ramen noodles is not pay, it's slave wages, or the college experience without the education) and sacrificing the best years of their lives for what... the entertainment of some netizens? A slim chance at fame and riches?

People work hard to get famous. People work hard to get anywhere they want to. The most famous players make big money, the lower players have to endure hard years to get there. You think this doesn't apply to other sports?

NCAA, poker, whatever... most never make it. The smart ones know when to walk away and revert to plan B. No one can be successful without hard work, but you need to be honest with yourself about what your goals are and why they're important to you. Most are in it for the money, and few will win big, so what does that make the rest? I think "dedicated" is too kind.

Show nested quote +

Sometimes I worry that the competitive Starcraft scene is too concerned with the image of "eSports," and not discriminating enough of the game within the sport. Sometimes I think that there are too many events & wanna-be events, too many casters & wanna-be casters, too many progamers & wanna-be progamers. All too often the quality is low, which is a shame when the people that put things together are taking personal risks or volunteering their time. I hope it's worth it for the people who have a lot invested. I hope it's still fun for the players, because it's not going to get any better than this. This is the complete and fulfilled dream of eSports, and the only thing hurting eSports now is its own self-obsession.

No, you don't. You want it to fail. You have created these opinions for which flawed is too much of an understatement to use because you WANT controversial opinions. You don't WANT to follow what the crowd are following. If it fails, you'll be laughing, "haha! I wasn't like the rest, I predicted this!".
That is your motivation. You are not worried. Anybody remotely worried would have obliterated those pathetic arguments in their own head.

That is a false characterization (I'm more of the "mwahaha" evil laugher). No I am genuinely concerned about all of those talented "pros" who may have stable gigs for now, but they're not going to win a major tournament any time soon, some of them do not look happy where they are (which is sad considering they're playing a game for a living), and their youthful talents are going to waste chasing an artificial dream. At best, they can entertain us with exciting games, but (as I have already laid out) the game itself is not conducive to this task.



Blizzard has already said Samir Duran isn't dead ^ fail
edit: /sarcasm
When Keepin It Real Goes Wrong
Prev 1 9 10 11 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 2h 2m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ProTech157
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 2200
Britney 1030
BeSt 507
Free 154
Stork 112
Mind 98
Leta 96
sorry 79
Killer 78
Pusan 65
[ Show more ]
Larva 63
Rush 58
ggaemo 52
Yoon 45
EffOrt 43
JYJ 36
Shinee 36
soO 36
Mong 31
hero 27
Bale 24
Sacsri 22
ToSsGirL 20
NotJumperer 18
ajuk12(nOOB) 14
ZergMaN 13
sOs 13
yabsab 12
Noble 10
scan(afreeca) 10
League of Legends
JimRising 468
Reynor87
Counter-Strike
fl0m4062
shoxiejesuss1044
olofmeister337
Other Games
summit1g9821
XaKoH 223
Fuzer 103
ViBE67
Mew2King46
KnowMe39
ToD23
[ Show 10 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• LUISG 24
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• ChaeLyn 1
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Upcoming Events
Ultimate Battle
2h 2m
OSC
4h 2m
OSC
13h 32m
ByuN vs MaxPax
herO vs Krystianer
Percival vs Shameless
LetaleX vs YoungYakov
Nicoract vs Gerald
GgMaChine vs ArT
CranKy Ducklings
1d
WardiTV Invitational
1d 2h
ByuN vs SHIN
MaxPax vs Solar
Clem vs TBD
herO vs TBD
Lambo vs TBD
Rogue vs TBD
IPSL
1d 7h
TerrOr vs IJ_Terran
rasowy vs Hazorath
BSL
1d 10h
TerrOr vs OyAji
UltrA vs Gosudark
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
WardiTV Invitational
2 days
IPSL
2 days
Art_Of_Turtle vs KameZerg
Radley vs George
[ Show More ]
BSL
2 days
Artosis vs Dewalt
Ret vs Tech
WardiTV Weekly
3 days
PiGosaur Cup
4 days
The PondCast
5 days
GSL
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-11-12
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
International ShieldBattery League
Individual League
BSL Season 23
IPSL Winter 2026-27
Calamity Cup Div. A Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026

Upcoming

YSL S4
Sector 591
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
StarCraft2 Weekly Open Tournament 2026 Grand Finals
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Underdog Cup 2026 Div 2-3
PGL Bucharest 2027
BLAST Bounty Winter 2027
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.