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Please read first:
Edit: the sensationalist title was chosen to generate views, deal with it. For some back story and clarification, read this post: + Show Spoiler +On November 21 2011 11:10 VirgilSC2 wrote:I'm not a Leenock fan in the first place, and while I'm not a NaNiWa fan either, it sucks to see someone go down like this. I personally feel really bad for NaNiWa. He gets told by NesTea pre-game that he's going to crush him, after he already beat NesTea once, proceeds to pause for a confirmation on the map, and gets hated on. Wins the series, finally comes out of his shell a little on-stage, and gets vilified for it. I think this quote from Slasher says a lot: Show nested quote +@Slasher
Rod Breslau
Just spoke to Naniwa, he's sad the crowd boo'ed him, will bottle up his emotions till he wins the championship. Leenock wants a shot. #MLG NaNiWa has had people rooting against him from Day 1 of this event, and it just kept compounding. You could see on stage after he became the villain of the weekend, he kept his words and emotion to a minimum, and to hear the crowd being against you every game can really hurt your mentality. Would also like to state that i've been to live events, love 'em and think a crowd collectively appreciating something is a potentially wonderful thing. We should just make our crowds more awesome than those of most other sports. Let's take the best of Western enthusiasm and BW respect and combine it. Edit2: added a poll since more people than anticipated disagree on point 1. Edit3: Should clarify pt. 2 a bit more. I can see why people want to leave after a long weekend but a prize ceremony =/= rolling credits after a cinematic feature. When someone who isn't "the home team" wins, please consider staying and sharing their joy. At least until the scene is more developed and more contenders for #1 have a solid fanbase worldwide Edit4: By popular demand, price ceremony has been corrected to prize ceremony.
I'm not saying everyone in the crowd was a villain, but as a collective mass, i'm disappointed in the SC2 community.
There have been incidents in the past towards other games at MLG, fighting over chairs and various minor occurrences, but nothing comes close to this.
1. When a caster says "give a cheer for _____" you don't boo. Or?
Poll: Is booing during player intros acceptable?No. (193) 75% Yes. (64) 25% 257 total votes Your vote: Is booing during player intros acceptable? (Vote): Yes.
(Vote): No.
2. You seriously don't have 10 extra minutes to spare on the prize ceremony? These were the national finals! With the mass exodus that followed the last game, it's not like you're gonna "beat traffic". It's disrespectful to the tournament organizers, the sponsors behind the price money and trophy and the press covering the event. More than anything, it came off as you were a bunch of anti-fans who never really cheered for anyone to win but rather someone to lose. Mad props to those who stayed without being press, a player or part of the organization though.
I hate the concept of judging people collectively but we have to accept the fact that majorities are visible/audible and the eyes of everyone watching are on them.
Going from Blizzcon to this was a cold shower. This weekend the various barcrafts seemed to me a better venue for Starcraft viewing.
All eyes are now on the Dreamhack finals that are being held in an arena. I really hope those seats are filled and by a more sympathetic bunch.
Agree? Disagree?
  
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You do realize people do this in EVERY MAJOR SPORT??? In fact, have you ever been to a high school football game or basketball game where the other team's names are being called? You know what happens to Lebron James every god damn city he enters now?
But yes, dear God, let's not boo someone because we all need to hold hands and cheer for everyone no matter what because the world is good, and there is no such thing as passion for players and games. Let's get a list of those who boo'd and execute them as they don't deserve to live for being such despicable human beings. How dare they boo for a player who they didn't want to win.
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Providence was definitely the worst crowd in terms of enthusiasm since Koreans started coming over. Those Leenock chants after he beat MVP and DRG were sick though. I don't think you should be telling people who to cheer for though. Those people paid money to be there and have the right to cheer or boo whoever they want, even if it's in bad taste.
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The crowd didnt do anything wrong. As far as I'm concerned, this is how crowds act at sporting events.
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
you're an idiot, and it doesn't matter
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On November 21 2011 11:37 Itsmedudeman wrote:
You do realize people do this in EVERY MAJOR SPORT??? In fact, have you ever been to a high school football game or basketball game where the other team's names are being called? You know what happens to Lebron James every god damn city he enters now?
But yes, dear God, let's not boo someone because we all need to hold hands and cheer for everyone no matter what because the world is good, and there is no such thing as passion for players and games. Let's get a list of those who boo'd and execute them as they don't deserve to live for being such despicable human beings. How dare they boo for a player who they didn't want to win.
Wow. Ok.
I thought we were creating our own sport here using the good aspects of "major sports".
Anyways, in some ways i agree with you, but we're also seeing a myriad of topics spring up from "BM" and how players are "hurting the sport" (in part why i chose the sensationalist title). I think it's relevant to analyze the impact of crowd behavior as well. I'm not the one to decide on absolutes but as a fellow enthusiast i raise the point to discussion.
When asked to "give a cheer" - that shouldn't be followed by any booing. That's my opinion on the matter, maybe someone shares it - let's find out through communicating with each other.
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Same for leaving early, happens in every major sport too
also i liked how you used "injured" instead of hurting xDDD
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They crowd did nothing to hinder esports, don't blow this out of proportion. Sure they might not have been perfect, but they were still a crowd that was still cheering. The games were amazing regardless and this tournament will probably cause more growth in esports.
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Worst usage of the "this is hurting esports" joke ever.
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I understand booing is part of sports but I don't understand the mentality of this community at times. It's like thousands of people are just sitting around waiting for the opportunity to jump on a witch hunt that inevitably leads to baseless accusations, a ridiculous amount of insults and hundreds of posts discrediting everything naniwa (in this scenario) was able to achieve in this weekend. That alone takes a lot of fun out of it for me.
Maybe I'm soft skinned because I've been watching bw half my life, and korean culture is radically different in that regard, but I will be sticking with GSL and pro league from this point on. People behaving like idiots in my opinion is acceptable in threads where I'll be able to avoid it, but booing crowds just pisses me off, and that takes the fun out of spectating for me.
I'm sure esports will be perfectly fine though. ^^
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I think the bigger injury/disappointment to ESPORTS is when people talk about something that happened and give an opinion on it without describing what happened and when it happened. People that weren't watching are left to guess who got boo'd and why, context of the situation, and any other relevant detail. Given that people around these parts often blow things up to be bigger than they are I'm not sure if this was really a big deal. The bits I watched seemed to have a less energetic crowd than previous MLGs, but the volume is turned down for crowd cheers and it could be that the dial was turned down a bit much.
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On November 21 2011 11:48 zakmaa wrote:
They crowd did nothing to hinder esports, don't blow this out of proportion. Sure they might not have been perfect, but they were still a crowd that was still cheering. The games were amazing regardless and this tournament will probably cause more growth in esports.
Of course. That's true for pretty much every event with a few exceptions (PPL comes to mind). Again, the reason for choosing the title is that whenever a player is bad mannered, does something controversial - the argument immediately springs up that "OMG he's (it's usually a he) hurting eSports! How will people look at us now!?!?".
While i mostly disagree with the contents of those player related topics, let's not be hypocrites. The eSports movement goes beyond the players and this time i think the crowds behavior was worth discussing. Just like when they boo'd the showing of CoD a couple events back.
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A crowd's a crowd. And when the sport is slowly going mainstream then you can expect it to slowly change and have similarities with other mainstream sporting events. It's not the olympics, that's for sure.
Also, when you refer to the e-sports community, it's basically not limited to just the actual venue of the event anyway, as such, it has a broader crowd that is not physically seen on site.
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Germany25657 Posts
Its funny that esports is flourishing really well eventhough its getting hurt 5 times a day 
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I couldn't make it to the barcraft montreal this time but I was there last time, the place was empty before the ending ceremony even started 
It's normal... A bit sad, but normal. And frankly there's a chance I would have left, depending on my mood at the time.
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You won't please everybody.
It doesn't matter if they boo or cheer. As long as you get a reaction you are doing something right. Also, streams don't do justice to a live crowd either.
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Wow seriously? Lol totally disagree with everything. If I dislike a player I can't voice it?
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On November 21 2011 11:46 Rekrul wrote:
you're an idiot, and it doesn't matter
Hahahah LOL... good response.
It doesn't matter, people voice out their opinion like this all the time. Booing is normal.
Being disrespectful to other players is a lot more worrying, not talking about nani's incident but the usual Idra/lalush type of thing. That's what people should be worried about, the audience's opinions and how they express them doesn't really matter unless they're hurting something.
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On November 21 2011 11:37 Itsmedudeman wrote:
You do realize people do this in EVERY MAJOR SPORT??? In fact, have you ever been to a high school football game or basketball game where the other team's names are being called? You know what happens to Lebron James every god damn city he enters now?
But yes, dear God, let's not boo someone because we all need to hold hands and cheer for everyone no matter what because the world is good, and there is no such thing as passion for players and games. Let's get a list of those who boo'd and execute them as they don't deserve to live for being such despicable human beings. How dare they boo for a player who they didn't want to win.
This guy summed it up pretty well. Shit happens at these events. Learn to deal with it.
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I don't really know about this. In my opinion, the boos would be suitable if the community was larger. But the fact is, we are a small community, no matter how you look at it. Meh.
It just seems to me that everyone right now is nice to everyone. There are no real "I hate you" relationships out there. Being a flourishing community, it's all about support, and boos are the exact opposite of support. It's animosity.
As far as cheers go, freaking weak. There were so many people there, but they didn't even seem to get as loud as Anaheim. Super disappointing, but it is what it is, and probably isn't that big of a deal. Just doesn't give you that feel-good.
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United States24690 Posts
In my opinion, when you are not familiar with the details of the map pool, and due to the pending chaos, respond publicly with "joke tournament," it entitles the crowd to boo you during the remainder of the tournament.
IMO this shouldn't carry over to the future. I don't agree with your blanket statement that boo-ing during "cheer for x" moments should never be done. Personally I wouldn't do it but I can think of many extreme examples which demonstrate that a blanket statement really isn't viable here (what if OJ Simpson was playing on the big stage... I shouldn't boo him when they say "cheer for OJ!"?)
edit: I also neglected to mention, but the thing I described above isn't the only thing Naniwa has "done" XD I don't want his Esports career ended but the community doesn't have a short memory either.
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Because this is a sport, it should be noted that such events happen in every sport.
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On November 21 2011 12:25 micronesia wrote:
In my opinion, when you are not familiar with the details of the map pool, and due to the pending chaos, respond publicly with "joke tournament," it entitles the crowd to boo you during the remainder of the tournament.
IMO this shouldn't carry over to the future. I don't agree with your blanket statement that boo-ing during "cheer for x" moments should never be done. Personally I wouldn't do it but I can think of many extreme examples which demonstrate that a blanket statement really isn't viable here (what if OJ Simpson was playing on the big stage... I shouldn't boo him when they say "cheer for OJ!"?)
edit: I also neglected to mention, but the thing I described above isn't the only thing Naniwa has "done" XD I don't want his Esports career ended but the community doesn't have a short memory either.
I don't know, i think i still disagree with you. You shouldn't boo even if it was OJ. Let's say it was Deezer up there playing. I think silence makes a stronger statement.
A crowd booing, a classroom laughing, a website (*hrm* reddit) grabbing their pitchforks and lighting their torches - it's all feedback that often just serves to "reward" bad behavior. Deezer and Combat obviously crave attention in whatever shape or form.
Silence would be a stronger statement.
No one is forcing you to cheer - but by booing, you're either gonna hurt someones feelings or reward a villain.
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Sensationalist posts like this do far more to negatively impact the scene by encouraging the notion that Sc2 fans are like the OP, judgmental, self-assured, and overly critical. Some people boo, a lot of tired people wanted to leave after the last game, so what? Lay reader, I implore you, we are not like the OP, some of us simply enjoy watching and playing Sc2, we are all not so anal.
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United States24690 Posts
On November 21 2011 12:33 Thrill wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2011 12:25 micronesia wrote:
In my opinion, when you are not familiar with the details of the map pool, and due to the pending chaos, respond publicly with "joke tournament," it entitles the crowd to boo you during the remainder of the tournament.
IMO this shouldn't carry over to the future. I don't agree with your blanket statement that boo-ing during "cheer for x" moments should never be done. Personally I wouldn't do it but I can think of many extreme examples which demonstrate that a blanket statement really isn't viable here (what if OJ Simpson was playing on the big stage... I shouldn't boo him when they say "cheer for OJ!"?)
edit: I also neglected to mention, but the thing I described above isn't the only thing Naniwa has "done" XD I don't want his Esports career ended but the community doesn't have a short memory either. I don't know, i think i still disagree with you. You shouldn't boo even if it was OJ. Let's say it was Deezer up there playing, or more realistically - Cruncher in the Cruncher v. Idra situation a couple of MLG's back. I think silence makes a stronger statement. The point of this thread is to increase the strength of the negative message/statement sent to the criticized player? I didn't get that impression.
A crowd booing, a classroom laughing, a website (*hrm* reddit) grabbing their pitchforks and lighting their torches - it's all feedback that often just serves to "reward" bad behavior. Deezer and Combat obviously crave attention in whatever shape or form.
Silence would be a stronger statement.
No one is forcing you to cheer - but by booing, you're either gonna hurt someones feelings or reward a villain.
Your idealism is admirable and completely detached from any reality worth discussing, I think.
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Booing is perfectly normal and is seen in pretty much ALL sports. As ESPORTS is getting bigger we will be seeing more of this. However, I do think people should stay at the ending ceremony but it's really up to the individuals choice if he wants to or not.
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United States24690 Posts
When an event is nonstop games for 3 days straight it's hard to get mad at people for wanting to go home late on a sunday night lol
Personally I had to leave before the semis which sucked.
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On November 21 2011 12:35 micronesia wrote:
The point of this thread is to increase the strength of the negative message/statement sent to the criticized player? I didn't get that impression.
Point of the thread is to discuss crowd behavior at live events, in this case specifically booing during player introductions. I've never heard any boos during BW events and don't see why it's necessary to implement given the advent of SC2. In either case you raised the point of booing being an important outlet for crowd feedback to players. I agree partly but still think booing can be replaced by silence for a more polite, familiar environment.
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I did not really notice it. As long as the player can handle it I think it can be good for the scene. We need both heroes and villains to make the player relations exciting. The scene would be less interesting without players the spectators love to hate.
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Another thing about the booing that may be a valid point: When you boo Lebron, it's not at home. When you boo Naniwa however, it's a neutral stage. Just putting that out there.
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naniwa is awesome (dont know about his "past" as micro suggested), shame i wasnt there coz i would have shut those booers up with cheers overwhelming
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On November 21 2011 11:45 zOula... wrote:
The crowd didnt do anything wrong. As far as I'm concerned, this is how crowds act at sporting events.
Yup, i wont say i was in favor of NaNi or against. But people always says "E-Sports is real sports" Real sports people boo and cheer for their team. Now sports are played in stadiums so there is bias toward home team. But guess what? If we want E-Sports to grow this is going to be a part of players lives. What do you want form this thread? people to sympathize and say "Oh man that providence crowd is killing E-Sports" Seriously if your a player and want to be cheered on don't be as controversial as Naniwa. Take White-Ra for example I can almost guarantee you when White-Ra plays no body is booing him. Why because he loves the fucking community he signs people autographs/shake hands till his damn arm falls off. He doesn't BM other players hes courteous to everyone and thats why people love White-Ra.
I wont Say Naniwa is a terrible person but hes had a few bumps. One of them was calling Nestea and Idiot after beating him in MLG global. Which is why Nestea said he was going to crush him. Convenient you left that part out huh?
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Someone should make a PSA about it being prizepool not pricepool. I see that error a lot and I don't think many people realized it is a mistake.
Anyway, yeah booing is for dicks.
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On November 21 2011 12:49 Dalguno wrote:
Another thing about the booing that may be a valid point: When you boo Lebron, it's not at home. When you boo Naniwa however, it's a neutral stage. Just putting that out there.
Before he left Cleveland Lebron got destroyed by the fickle fans of the mistake by the lake, in a competitive scene that wishes to encourage passionate fandom, booing is simply part of the deal.
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The best thing anyone has said regarding the topic.
Irrelevant of the fact that you're going to also be targeted by the self-righteous mob, what you're saying is objectively correct. The crowd treated one of our own as a villain for simply trying to show a little personality and make things entertaining - yet we, as a collective decide to spit in his face.
Kind of disgusting really.
On November 21 2011 11:46 Rekrul wrote:
you're an idiot, and it doesn't matter
So I suppose once you receive some form of community prominence, you don't actually have to post any content other than simply project an ad-hominem at the OP. That's cool.
But really, I'm not in for the whole (OMG SAVING E-SPORTS WITH SUPER MANNER <3 DAY9 E-SPORTS <3<3) bullshit, but I'm just concerned as to what happened to the general consensus that we should root for the western players.
Sure, it's rather primitive, but atleast it's something can unite under. It's not very often that a western player dominates the best Koreans in the world consecutively - so why on earth is he being ostracised for such insignificant matters?
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On November 21 2011 12:21 TheLOLas wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2011 11:37 Itsmedudeman wrote:
You do realize people do this in EVERY MAJOR SPORT??? In fact, have you ever been to a high school football game or basketball game where the other team's names are being called? You know what happens to Lebron James every god damn city he enters now?
But yes, dear God, let's not boo someone because we all need to hold hands and cheer for everyone no matter what because the world is good, and there is no such thing as passion for players and games. Let's get a list of those who boo'd and execute them as they don't deserve to live for being such despicable human beings. How dare they boo for a player who they didn't want to win. This guy summed it up pretty well. Shit happens at these events. Learn to deal with it.
NO! Starcraft is a sport for manly people who are manner and have honor; The emphasis on manner and sportmanship was one of the things I admired about bw and I hope that sc2 can grow the same balls despite the influx of gamer kids/casuals who don't know the true meaning of esports.
If I wanted to hang out with drunken assholes I would go to a football game, I want to hang out with esports fans who are smart and manner and treat everybody with respect because that's what starcraft is about.
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On November 21 2011 12:44 Thrill wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2011 12:35 micronesia wrote:
The point of this thread is to increase the strength of the negative message/statement sent to the criticized player? I didn't get that impression. Point of the thread is to discuss crowd behavior at live events, in this case specifically booing during player introductions. I've never heard any boos during BW events and don't see why it's necessary to implement given the advent of SC2. In either case you raised the point of booing being an important outlet for crowd feedback to players. I agree partly but still think booing can be replaced by silence for a more polite, familiar environment.
WHAT? We know the common age group of SC2 players is something like 16-24 (It is a little arbitrary but not completely off) You expect these young males to be silent? When the crowd is happy do you expect them to politely clap? Even in golf now a days people people are yelling and cheering contrary to the "Golf clap".
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On November 21 2011 12:57 sam!zdat wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2011 12:21 TheLOLas wrote:On November 21 2011 11:37 Itsmedudeman wrote:
You do realize people do this in EVERY MAJOR SPORT??? In fact, have you ever been to a high school football game or basketball game where the other team's names are being called? You know what happens to Lebron James every god damn city he enters now?
But yes, dear God, let's not boo someone because we all need to hold hands and cheer for everyone no matter what because the world is good, and there is no such thing as passion for players and games. Let's get a list of those who boo'd and execute them as they don't deserve to live for being such despicable human beings. How dare they boo for a player who they didn't want to win. This guy summed it up pretty well. Shit happens at these events. Learn to deal with it. NO! Starcraft is a sport for manly people who are manner and have honor; The emphasis on manner and sportmanship was one of the things I admired about bw and I hope that sc2 can grow the same balls despite the influx of gamer kids/casuals who don't know the true meaning of esports.
If I wanted to hang out with drunken assholes I would go to a football game, I want to hang out with esports fans who are smart and manner and treat everybody with respect because that's what starcraft is about.
Seriously? Like how do i approach this? Elitist? thats possibly the most ignorant post i have read here. You just completely grouped people together like your some sort of fucking genius. You assume SC fan= smart and Football fan =Drunken idiot? So how does one be fan of both?
I'm not even going to write up a long post to dissect your ignorant fucking post.
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naniwa is killing esports by calling it a joke tournament in front of everyone, im glad he got boo'd
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People left right away because they had been standing there for 11 hours straight or more. My feet, knees, and back are killing me right now!
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On November 21 2011 12:44 Thrill wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2011 12:35 micronesia wrote:
The point of this thread is to increase the strength of the negative message/statement sent to the criticized player? I didn't get that impression. Point of the thread is to discuss crowd behavior at live events, in this case specifically booing during player introductions. I've never heard any boos during BW events and don't see why it's necessary to implement given the advent of SC2. In either case you raised the point of booing being an important outlet for crowd feedback to players. I agree partly but still think booing can be replaced by silence for a more polite, familiar environment.
But aren't you making a blog criticizing the crowd? And not just criticizing, but saying, for one reason or another, that "injuring esports?" The reason why you made this, and keep responding, is not so theres an open outlet for discussion. It's so you can make sure that your views are especially heard on the matter, even though the same topic is being discussed in the LR thread itself. That's what people do all the time. It's natural. The reason you're making this blog is the same reason why the crowd will not be "silent" as a more polite form of criticism. People want to have their voices heard.
When its that far in a tournament, when theres so much drama, your not just going to not cheer(personally that would be way worse haha. I'd rather have boos than silence.) Heck, a minority of people were booing. It wasn't like it was the whole crowd. Most people just cheered for the opponet, only a select minority boo'd naniwa. And I don't see how you can say that when a crowd is that passionate, (because if they're booing your know it means they care), that its injuring esports. Passion can only make things grow.
+ Show Spoiler +
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On November 21 2011 13:00 DreamChaser wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2011 12:57 sam!zdat wrote:On November 21 2011 12:21 TheLOLas wrote:On November 21 2011 11:37 Itsmedudeman wrote:
You do realize people do this in EVERY MAJOR SPORT??? In fact, have you ever been to a high school football game or basketball game where the other team's names are being called? You know what happens to Lebron James every god damn city he enters now?
But yes, dear God, let's not boo someone because we all need to hold hands and cheer for everyone no matter what because the world is good, and there is no such thing as passion for players and games. Let's get a list of those who boo'd and execute them as they don't deserve to live for being such despicable human beings. How dare they boo for a player who they didn't want to win. This guy summed it up pretty well. Shit happens at these events. Learn to deal with it. NO! Starcraft is a sport for manly people who are manner and have honor; The emphasis on manner and sportmanship was one of the things I admired about bw and I hope that sc2 can grow the same balls despite the influx of gamer kids/casuals who don't know the true meaning of esports.
If I wanted to hang out with drunken assholes I would go to a football game, I want to hang out with esports fans who are smart and manner and treat everybody with respect because that's what starcraft is about. Seriously? Like how do i approach this? Elitist? thats possibly the most ignorant post i have read here. You just completely grouped people together like your some sort of fucking genius. You assume SC fan= smart and Football fan =Drunken idiot? So how does one be fan of both? I'm not even going to write up a long post to dissect your ignorant fucking post.
This man knows whats up, its quite amazing how small-minded and judgmental some people can be, as though their own interests are only validated through shitting on others. Guess what sam!zdat, I want to celebrate my passion for Sc2 just like I do my Green Bay Packers, whaddya gonna do about it bub?
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On November 21 2011 13:11 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2011 13:00 DreamChaser wrote:On November 21 2011 12:57 sam!zdat wrote:On November 21 2011 12:21 TheLOLas wrote:On November 21 2011 11:37 Itsmedudeman wrote:
You do realize people do this in EVERY MAJOR SPORT??? In fact, have you ever been to a high school football game or basketball game where the other team's names are being called? You know what happens to Lebron James every god damn city he enters now?
But yes, dear God, let's not boo someone because we all need to hold hands and cheer for everyone no matter what because the world is good, and there is no such thing as passion for players and games. Let's get a list of those who boo'd and execute them as they don't deserve to live for being such despicable human beings. How dare they boo for a player who they didn't want to win. This guy summed it up pretty well. Shit happens at these events. Learn to deal with it. NO! Starcraft is a sport for manly people who are manner and have honor; The emphasis on manner and sportmanship was one of the things I admired about bw and I hope that sc2 can grow the same balls despite the influx of gamer kids/casuals who don't know the true meaning of esports.
If I wanted to hang out with drunken assholes I would go to a football game, I want to hang out with esports fans who are smart and manner and treat everybody with respect because that's what starcraft is about. Seriously? Like how do i approach this? Elitist? thats possibly the most ignorant post i have read here. You just completely grouped people together like your some sort of fucking genius. You assume SC fan= smart and Football fan =Drunken idiot? So how does one be fan of both? I'm not even going to write up a long post to dissect your ignorant fucking post. This man knows whats up, its quite amazing how small-minded and judgmental some people can be, as though their own interests are only validated through shitting on others. Guess what sam!zdat, I want to celebrate my passion for Sc2 just like I do my Green Bay Packers, whaddya gonna do about it bub?
Then you go and do exactly the same thing?
In a sporting event where it's individuals competing I think it's extremely rude to boo at them, and that it should be reserved for when they actually deserve to be booed. Heckling on the other hand would be awesome.
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In "real sports" there are situations where you dont boo. I also dont remember anyone booing in BW during "1-2-3 x y z fighting", but since I didnt watched it much - if someone could prove me wrong there I'd appreciate it.
So why not make the "Give a cheer for X" the same non-booing moment? It's also disrespectful towards the fans of that player (or else we have booing competitions - great! ...)
If you want to boo - do it. But dont justify it with "everyone else - everywhere else is doing it too!". It's very disrespectful and normally associated with ultras.
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On November 21 2011 13:24 Aeropunk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2011 13:11 farvacola wrote:On November 21 2011 13:00 DreamChaser wrote:On November 21 2011 12:57 sam!zdat wrote:On November 21 2011 12:21 TheLOLas wrote:On November 21 2011 11:37 Itsmedudeman wrote:
You do realize people do this in EVERY MAJOR SPORT??? In fact, have you ever been to a high school football game or basketball game where the other team's names are being called? You know what happens to Lebron James every god damn city he enters now?
But yes, dear God, let's not boo someone because we all need to hold hands and cheer for everyone no matter what because the world is good, and there is no such thing as passion for players and games. Let's get a list of those who boo'd and execute them as they don't deserve to live for being such despicable human beings. How dare they boo for a player who they didn't want to win. This guy summed it up pretty well. Shit happens at these events. Learn to deal with it. NO! Starcraft is a sport for manly people who are manner and have honor; The emphasis on manner and sportmanship was one of the things I admired about bw and I hope that sc2 can grow the same balls despite the influx of gamer kids/casuals who don't know the true meaning of esports.
If I wanted to hang out with drunken assholes I would go to a football game, I want to hang out with esports fans who are smart and manner and treat everybody with respect because that's what starcraft is about. Seriously? Like how do i approach this? Elitist? thats possibly the most ignorant post i have read here. You just completely grouped people together like your some sort of fucking genius. You assume SC fan= smart and Football fan =Drunken idiot? So how does one be fan of both? I'm not even going to write up a long post to dissect your ignorant fucking post. This man knows whats up, its quite amazing how small-minded and judgmental some people can be, as though their own interests are only validated through shitting on others. Guess what sam!zdat, I want to celebrate my passion for Sc2 just like I do my Green Bay Packers, whaddya gonna do about it bub? Then you go and do exactly the same thing? In a sporting event where it's individuals competing I think it's extremely rude to boo at them, and that it should be reserved for when they actually deserve to be booed. Heckling on the other hand would be awesome.
I criticized nothing but the notion that anyone has the right to dictate how others show their passion, if Sc2 is to grow further then a holistic acceptance of the incredibly diverse background of the fanbase is par for the course mate. Some love football and show their passion by screaming obscenities at the tv, others quietly cheer for their favorite team, to each their own.
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I'd boo on the top of my lungs if the intro was for deezer
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On November 21 2011 13:08 Pandain wrote:
People want to have their voices heard.
Absolutely. I'm all for it! I don't mind taking heat over this or the shortcomings of my blog at all. It's my opinion and it's open to scrutiny.
What i write here is something tangible that you can respond to though. Booing isn't. Booing may very well represent a well thought-out opinion but how does that help anyone respond to it? A crowd isn't the forum to voice your opinion, it's a forum for expressing your enthusiasm.
If the fire department comes in and says "there's too much people in here, we need to kick some out" - go right ahead and boo. Boo at MLG for ignoring fire regulations, boo at the department for being party poopers (they're used to it!) - but let's leave booing out of the player interaction.
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On November 21 2011 13:24 Aeropunk wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2011 13:11 farvacola wrote:On November 21 2011 13:00 DreamChaser wrote:On November 21 2011 12:57 sam!zdat wrote:On November 21 2011 12:21 TheLOLas wrote:On November 21 2011 11:37 Itsmedudeman wrote:
You do realize people do this in EVERY MAJOR SPORT??? In fact, have you ever been to a high school football game or basketball game where the other team's names are being called? You know what happens to Lebron James every god damn city he enters now?
But yes, dear God, let's not boo someone because we all need to hold hands and cheer for everyone no matter what because the world is good, and there is no such thing as passion for players and games. Let's get a list of those who boo'd and execute them as they don't deserve to live for being such despicable human beings. How dare they boo for a player who they didn't want to win. This guy summed it up pretty well. Shit happens at these events. Learn to deal with it. NO! Starcraft is a sport for manly people who are manner and have honor; The emphasis on manner and sportmanship was one of the things I admired about bw and I hope that sc2 can grow the same balls despite the influx of gamer kids/casuals who don't know the true meaning of esports.
If I wanted to hang out with drunken assholes I would go to a football game, I want to hang out with esports fans who are smart and manner and treat everybody with respect because that's what starcraft is about. Seriously? Like how do i approach this? Elitist? thats possibly the most ignorant post i have read here. You just completely grouped people together like your some sort of fucking genius. You assume SC fan= smart and Football fan =Drunken idiot? So how does one be fan of both? I'm not even going to write up a long post to dissect your ignorant fucking post. This man knows whats up, its quite amazing how small-minded and judgmental some people can be, as though their own interests are only validated through shitting on others. Guess what sam!zdat, I want to celebrate my passion for Sc2 just like I do my Green Bay Packers, whaddya gonna do about it bub? Then you go and do exactly the same thing? In a sporting event where it's individuals competing I think it's extremely rude to boo at them, and that it should be reserved for when they actually deserve to be booed. Heckling on the other hand would be awesome.
I mean, the crowd thought that naniwa cheated vs nestea, everyones idol of zerg. It was there idea of deserving to be booed. But honestly, i dont think they continued booing for him throughout the night, i heard cheers by naniwas name.
On the topic of the op: chill out, naniwa shud be able to get over the sad feelings because he didnt cheat and later people clapped for him, its part of being a public figure, and he has it way easier than a certain female gsl caster did..
And about the part about everyone leaving before the ceremony: to each their own. I would not of left had i been there(prolly would of gotten a better seat. But it shudnt be a big deal
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Well if he was booed after talking trash to a major favorite then what's the controversy over?
As for leaving early, it happens in most sports. Would be good to see more people stick around though.
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Is expressing my opinion of a player ok?
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Next time you edit your OP, please change "price ceremony" to "prize ceremony" or something else. :x
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On November 21 2011 11:34 Thrill wrote:
2. You seriously don't have 10 extra minutes to spare on the prize ceremony? These were the national finals! With the mass exodus that followed the last game, it's not like you're gonna "beat traffic". It's disrespectful to the tournament organizers, the sponsors behind the price money and trophy and the press covering the event. More than anything, it came off as you were a bunch of anti-fans who never really cheered for anyone to win but rather someone to lose. Mad props to those who stayed without being press, a player or part of the organization though.
This is the only problem I had. Very much a WTF moment when I saw all those people leave. I realize it's Sunday night everyone is probably ready to get home but come on.
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On November 21 2011 11:37 Itsmedudeman wrote:
You do realize people do this in EVERY MAJOR SPORT??? In fact, have you ever been to a high school football game or basketball game where the other team's names are being called? You know what happens to Lebron James every god damn city he enters now?
But yes, dear God, let's not boo someone because we all need to hold hands and cheer for everyone no matter what because the world is good, and there is no such thing as passion for players and games. Let's get a list of those who boo'd and execute them as they don't deserve to live for being such despicable human beings. How dare they boo for a player who they didn't want to win.
That is not true at all for sports where athletes are not part of a team.
You well never hear booing in Golf, Tennis, Track, Swimming, etc.
The reason there is booing in team events is because normally the crowds are booing the team and not the specific players except for rare occasions such as Lebron.
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I honestly didn't find anything terrible about what happened to Naniwa. I think you are reading too much into the booing but its a shame people don't stick around for the ceremony.
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I'd rather they boo then cheer for someone they obviously don't like just so they don't hurt their feelings. Also, there's nothing wrong with people leaving, the games ended fairly late on a Sunday after a long weekend and some of the people who left probably came back after using the bathroom.
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there should be no problem with booing imo. This is a sport. you goto football games(or whatever sport) and boo the team u don't want to win right? It should be no different with sc2. And who cares if people left. Whatever, its there choice. All this "hurting esports" talk is downright silly. If anything badmanner and booing makes it more interesting and exciting.
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Personally I would cheer on all competitors just so that way we can see even better games. When Pros are in a strong state of mind they're going to perform proficiently, and so I would root for them to do so!
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Welcome to sports where booing actually happens!....
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People can feed off hate just as well as any other emotion and perform well to prove doubters wrong. Nothing wrong with having the heel/face dynamic in a 1v1 competition.
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On November 21 2011 13:36 apm66 wrote:
I'd boo on the top of my lungs if the intro was for deezer
Exactly, and booing should be reserved for people like him, not for players like Naniwa.
Also have any of you ever been to a sports forum? They ridicule fans who boo all the time.
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On November 21 2011 14:04 GettingIt wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2011 11:37 Itsmedudeman wrote:
You do realize people do this in EVERY MAJOR SPORT??? In fact, have you ever been to a high school football game or basketball game where the other team's names are being called? You know what happens to Lebron James every god damn city he enters now?
But yes, dear God, let's not boo someone because we all need to hold hands and cheer for everyone no matter what because the world is good, and there is no such thing as passion for players and games. Let's get a list of those who boo'd and execute them as they don't deserve to live for being such despicable human beings. How dare they boo for a player who they didn't want to win. That is not true at all for sports where athletes are not part of a team. You well never hear booing in Golf, Tennis, Track, Swimming, etc. The reason there is booing in team events is because normally the crowds are booing the team and not the specific players except for rare occasions such as Lebron.
Are you joking dude? You know when serena williams was arguing with the line callers the crowd boo'd her? Naniwa did some stuff this weekend that was definitely unsportsmanlike, the biggest thing being calling MLG a joke tournament on stage, pausing the game for illegitimate reasons, arguing with the admins, and some stuff to nestea which was seen as disrespectful (mainly because it was nestea). Don't get me wrong, ceremonies like that are okay, but it really depends on context, and naniwa was just seen as someone who (arguably as I don't really feel strongly about this myself) just didn't have a right to do a ceremony like that. If nestea did that against boxer he'd have been boo'd as well.
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I personally think "booing" is a bit rude, I think if you're not going to cheer for anyne, don't say anything at all.
This is eSports, and we want it to grow. We should treat each other with respect and support one another, imo.
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These things will come with expansion, and there will be many more things about the newcomers that you won't like. Part of the reason the TL community is so awesome is because when it started it was a very small group of intelligent hard working individuals. As Sc2 and Esports grow, the community will as well.
Trying to defend sc2 and esports from all the little things that come with expansion would be like trying to keep your daughter/son from ever learning about sex/violence/all the bad things in the world. The fact of the matter is that sc2 exists in this environment, and if it is going to grow, it must be able to grow despite these things, not without them.
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On November 21 2011 16:12 ODieN wrote:
I personally think "booing" is a bit rude, I think if you're not going to cheer for anyne, don't say anything at all.
This is eSports, and we want it to grow. We should treat each other with respect and support one another, imo.
Agree. I also think it's disrespectful to the game. Booing can put people on tilt, and for anyone who is there because they want to see the most interesting, dynamic and intelligent play it's counterproductive. Unfortunately that seems to be the minority of SC2 spectators (same with any sport I guess though).
Though I can understand booing in sports where you are siding with a nation rather than an individual because it's impersonal that way.
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I was there and I had no problems with all that you stated. Everywhere I went in Providence everybody was talking about how great of an experience it was. I think MLG Providence enhanced E-Sports.
You are probably referring to the booing of Naniwa and even that subsided as the event moved on. He happened to be the villain for the day and people like to boo their villains. At least they didn't throw tomatoes.
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i thought it was kind of funny that a foreigner who showed great games beating the best players in korea and some amazing micro tricks gets boo'd whilst some random korean nobody really is a fan of gets applause for 6 pool and 3 7 roach rushes.
mob mentality.
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People boo who they don't like.
Do they have a good reason not to like them? Hell if I know. Is it disrespectful? Sure, why not. Stupid? Probably, but 99% of what people do is stupid. Is it worth thinking about? Not really, much less posting on Teamliquid about it.
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Germany25657 Posts
Aaah, another "hurt esports" thread, i hear those are quite popular these days.
Seriously, it is getting annoying, not everything in this world is trying to kill esports -.-
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Thrill have you ever gone to a 3 day event such as MLG? If you have you would know its exhausting, the last day (and i didn't even go the second day) I was falling asleep in my chair, only the games with my fav players generated enough excitement for me to be fully engaged in what was going on. AND I was in a seat, there were hundreds of people standing ALL 3 DAYS. Also its Sunday, I have 8 am class on Monday and live 2 hours away from providence. So that fact combined with the fact I was exhausted from the event I left early, i don't understand how that is hurting esports.
I wont even talk about the booing thing. other then, Thrill you should just stop watching all sporting events if the booing gets you upset. People boo for players that say something stupid or make mistakes in game, just look at ocho for the patriots. Every time he drops a pass he should catch he gets booed by the crowd. THATS SPORTS
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Well, I was honestly surprised when people were leaving early. I thought I had somehow managed to miss the prize ceremony when I saw the place empty out.
I'd be one of the ones staying until everything is over. And then staying a little longer.
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United Kingdom16710 Posts
I really don't get why some of you are claiming booing is hurting the scene. Yes it is a little disrespectful to the players especially if there's no good justification, but this is what sports crowd do in almost all arenas. Some sections of the audience will do whatever it is they feel like in the moment. You can't regulate or stop that unless they really step over the line with something like racism. Even then, it takes an inordinate amount of effort to identify and deal with them. To me booing is just like cheering or gasping or whatever it is the crowd does to express themselves. We can't just selectively ban some because 'it's a little rude'. Besides, doesn't booing at least show that the crowd cares?
I guess I've been desensitised to all that stuff after attending a lot of live sports (mainly football) events. People cuss, spit and chant all sorts of obscenities towards players, managers, other fans. I'll admit it was a little shocking the first couple of times, but you have to understand people are passionate, and they release that through expressions like booing. As long as it's not malicious, I don't see a problem with it.
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On November 21 2011 11:46 Rekrul wrote:
you're an idiot, and it doesn't matter
you are wrong and it does matter
if we want big sponsors to give big money, we better behave a little more mature; otherwise you don't have to wonder if you only get hotpockets and dr. pepper
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On November 22 2011 03:50 sleepingdog wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2011 11:46 Rekrul wrote:
you're an idiot, and it doesn't matter you are wrong and it does matter if we want big sponsors to give big money, we better behave a little more mature; otherwise you don't have to wonder if you only get hotpockets and dr. pepper
Oh no! Swarovski and Rolex aren't sponsoring eSports because people are booing Naniwa, stop it guys
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The crowd was also a little numb at times, or maybe the mics were just badly adjusted. Anyway it seemed as if people were having a little fun, but not too much.
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Korea (South)17174 Posts
On November 22 2011 03:50 sleepingdog wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2011 11:46 Rekrul wrote:
you're an idiot, and it doesn't matter you are wrong and it does matter if we want big sponsors to give big money, we better behave a little more mature; otherwise you don't have to wonder if you only get hotpockets and dr. pepper
LOL this is sarcastic right?
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I dunno, I personally don't like boos. Big ones are especially kind of stressful to deal with as a player, but at least MLG has booths to prevent the boos from getting in.
+ Show Spoiler +
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On November 21 2011 13:11 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2011 13:00 DreamChaser wrote:On November 21 2011 12:57 sam!zdat wrote:On November 21 2011 12:21 TheLOLas wrote:On November 21 2011 11:37 Itsmedudeman wrote:
You do realize people do this in EVERY MAJOR SPORT??? In fact, have you ever been to a high school football game or basketball game where the other team's names are being called? You know what happens to Lebron James every god damn city he enters now?
But yes, dear God, let's not boo someone because we all need to hold hands and cheer for everyone no matter what because the world is good, and there is no such thing as passion for players and games. Let's get a list of those who boo'd and execute them as they don't deserve to live for being such despicable human beings. How dare they boo for a player who they didn't want to win. This guy summed it up pretty well. Shit happens at these events. Learn to deal with it. NO! Starcraft is a sport for manly people who are manner and have honor; The emphasis on manner and sportmanship was one of the things I admired about bw and I hope that sc2 can grow the same balls despite the influx of gamer kids/casuals who don't know the true meaning of esports.
If I wanted to hang out with drunken assholes I would go to a football game, I want to hang out with esports fans who are smart and manner and treat everybody with respect because that's what starcraft is about. Seriously? Like how do i approach this? Elitist? thats possibly the most ignorant post i have read here. You just completely grouped people together like your some sort of fucking genius. You assume SC fan= smart and Football fan =Drunken idiot? So how does one be fan of both? I'm not even going to write up a long post to dissect your ignorant fucking post. This man knows whats up, its quite amazing how small-minded and judgmental some people can be, as though their own interests are only validated through shitting on others. Guess what sam!zdat, I want to celebrate my passion for Sc2 just like I do my Green Bay Packers, whaddya gonna do about it bub?
I'm not going to "DO" anything about it other than tell you in an anonymous online forum that I think it's childish behavior and reflects poorly on your cultural capital. You shouldn't boo somebody unless they've done something that's actually worthy of your disrespect; naniwa didn't do anything like that.
To the guy one quote up, please don't take hyperbole too seriously it just makes you look defensive.
The point for me is I think western esports fans should take a page from the koreans on how to behave. You can talk trash sure, that's part of the fun, but you should do it in a respectful way. This is one respect at least in which their culture is far superior to ours.
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I was at the event, and there was a ton of booing after his "joke tournament" comment. the multiple pauses that ended up delaying the third game for a good 20-30 minutes, and probably also due to his watching the replay of their remade third game. NesTea was visibly upset and because he is such a crowd favorite, I think that when he started to tilt - (the third game he definitely didn't play on his normal level, making careless mistakes etc) - the crowd sort of tilted in a way as well.
While esports events are comparable in many ways to real sports events, there are definitely some very clear differences between the two. At sporting events there are tons of people booing the opposing team or even the home team if their performance is sub par. There are obviously going to be crowd favorites as well as less liked players at esports events, though I think the crowd should be able to show that through louder cheering for one player over the other. (Alcohol is also much more readily available at sporting events than esports, though that's not to say that some people weren't drinking  )
I'm a little burned out after this past weekend so I'm finding it quite difficult to phrase my thoughts correctly but it just doesn't feel right to be booing a player who has shown such excellent play and is helping the SC2 scene grow. While I definitely think that his actions in his series with NesTea weren't appropriate, the blatant disrespect shown towards him wasn't entirely deserved. We're all trying to help esports grow so it seems that we should be on the same side. Sure, you might not like him but at least show a little respect during the player announcements.
I, for one, did not support Naniwa through his run of incredible play but I still clapped (weakly, haha) during his introduction even though I would call him a scumbag (or something similar) to my friends who were also in attendance.
On another note, though... How is it that Naniwa and the official were both confused as to what version of the map it was supposed to be? I feel like that shouldn't ever happen and the confusion really shouldn't have delayed the event for that long.
There's probably some other stuff I'd like to add but I'm forgetting it now, oh well.
Edit 1: Just as a sidenote I was one of the fans who left early but that's because my ride had to wake up at 7am the next morning for work and we still had a 2 hour drive ahead of us.
There were also a ton of scumbags who would steal seats when people would just be going to the bathroom. I was with three other people so we always safeguarded each other's seats and took shifts to eat and get drinks as well so this never happened to us, but I witnessed plenty of people attempt to just sit on other people's coats when they got up. One person who took a seat even tried to argue with a person that was saving it that he had been standing for hours so he deserves the seat. I just found this ridiculous because to get our seats (on Saturday we sat about 12 rows back centered in front of the main stage), we had to be there nearly three hours before the first SC2 game was played on the main stage. I understand the frustration of not having a seat, but don't try to tell the people who probably arrived at the event way ahead of time to get their seats that you have been waiting and waiting. It sucks that there were a very limited number of seats but then again, that's why we got to the event early, even if it meant only four hours of sleep and then showing up still not quite sober from the previous night.
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Personally I don't like the boos, I wouldn't boo myself. I know esports isn't cricket, but it's kinda bad manner.
Having said that, I'm sure people doing it didn't think it was a big deal, it's easy to do in a big crowd. The only person it negatively affects is naniwa, who has put himself up there on stage, though I'm sure he never expected it.
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I've lost my respect for NaniWa the way he behaves. Like a spoiled little brat.
That said, I think everyone is entitled to express their emotion and opinions. Of course you're not going to open a medical textbook to use illnesses to insult him, but booing is the most non-rude way to voice that you dislike someone in a crowd.
I do not have time to carefully explain why I do not like player X or Y. That'd take too long. I just shout boo when they come on if I feel like it. Can't take it? Get back under your rock as it happens in each sport and to deny people to be passionate while trying to make them passionate is hypocrit as fuck.
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EPT
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