• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 04:18
CEST 10:18
KST 17:18
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Team TLMC #5: Winners Announced!0[ASL20] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Holding On9Maestros of the Game: Live Finals Preview (RO4)5TL.net Map Contest #21 - Finalists4Team TLMC #5: Vote to Decide Ladder Maps!0
Community News
5.0.15 Patch Balance Hotfix (2025-10-8)29Weekly Cups (Sept 29-Oct 5): MaxPax triples up3PartinG joins SteamerZone, returns to SC2 competition245.0.15 Balance Patch Notes (Live version)118$2,500 WardiTV TL Map Contest Tournament 152
StarCraft 2
General
5.0.15 Patch Balance Hotfix (2025-10-8) 5.0.15 Balance Patch Notes (Live version) The New Patch Killed Mech! Weekly Cups (Sept 29-Oct 5): MaxPax triples up Team TLMC #5: Winners Announced!
Tourneys
Tenacious Turtle Tussle Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) $2,500 WardiTV TL Map Contest Tournament 15 RSL Offline Finals Dates + Ticket Sales! Stellar Fest
Strategy
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 494 Unstable Environment Mutation # 493 Quick Killers Mutation # 492 Get Out More Mutation # 491 Night Drive
Brood War
General
ASL20 General Discussion Question regarding recent ASL Bisu vs Larva game [BSL21] - How to Qualify to Each League ? BW General Discussion RepMastered™: replay sharing and analyzer site
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL20] Ro8 Day 4 Small VOD Thread 2.0 [ASL20] Ro8 Day 3
Strategy
Current Meta TvZ Theorycraft - Improving on State of the Art Proposed Glossary of Strategic Uncertainty 9 hatch vs 10 hatch vs 12 hatch
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread ZeroSpace Megathread Dawn of War IV Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640} TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread UK Politics Mega-thread The Games Industry And ATVI
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club! The Happy Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 NBA General Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts The Automated Ban List BarCraft in Tokyo Japan for ASL Season5 Final
Blogs
What your "aura" says about…
Peanutsc
Mental Health In Esports: Wo…
TrAiDoS
Try to reverse getting fired …
Garnet
[ASL20] Players bad at pi…
pullarius1
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2359 users

Math Puzzle [num 20] - Page 6

Blogs > evanthebouncy!
Post a Reply
Prev 1 4 5 6 All
TanGeng
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sanya12364 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-14 06:27:18
November 14 2011 06:25 GMT
#101
On November 14 2011 03:45 rotinegg wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 14 2011 03:36 Frozenhelfire wrote:
I hope that rule doesn't count voice inflections :d
Prisoners:

The last prisoner says the color of the hat the person in front of him is wearing.
Odd numbers inflect the color of their hat as a question i.e. blue? if the person in front of them has the same color hat.
Even numbers inflect if the person has a different hat.


voice inflections also count as cheating

+ Show Spoiler +

Use red/blue parity - even or odd number of red/blue. Only the last one is at risk of being killed for announcing the initial parity of the 19 ahead of him.
The everyone else announces based on parity changes or non-change which will be the color of the hat that he is wearing.
Moderator我们是个踏实的赞助商模式俱乐部
TanGeng
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sanya12364 Posts
November 14 2011 07:24 GMT
#102
On November 13 2011 17:50 Warble wrote:
I also have another one. It is similar to a level in Chip's Challenge. I don't know which came first, whether Chip's Challenge originated the idea or whether it was adapted from the idea.

Day9 is on an perfectly circular island of radius r surrounded by water. The water monster from Amnesia is in the water waiting for Day9 to leave the island. Day9 must eventually leave the island to continue the game, or else his viewers will scorn his manhood. There is gate some distance away in the water - the specifics here don't matter. We all know that he must head for that gate.

Day9 runs at speed s both on land and in water (this is the shallow water area he knows and loves) and has unlimited stamina. The water monster swims at speed 4s, clearly outpacing Day9. This monster is tougher because it always knows where Day9 is, even when he's not in the water, and it will always take the fastest route to his position, even while he is on land. (The original monster only moved when Day9 was in the water. This monster has no such restriction. It moves all the time - but can only move in water.)

However, Day9 is awesome at maths and immediately works out how to best prolong his life so that we can all enjoy the maximum amount of pants-wetting terror.

What strategy gives Day9 the best chances of reaching that gate? Can he safely enter the water? Can you prove (mathematically or otherwise) that this is the best strategy?


Initial strategy: (touch the water)
+ Show Spoiler +

The monster follows Day9's movements inside the circle of safety and will try to be at the edge of the circle closest to Day9. The monsters covers the arc of the circle at 4s/r. If Day9 can cover arc faster, then he can leave the monster behind on the circle. Day9 can do this by running a smaller circle at less than radius r/4 (covering arc at faster than s/(r/4)). Via this method, Day9 can never beat the monster by more than pi arcs or the monster turns around.

Naively, we can say that Day9 can touch the water safely. Day9 is 3/4r away from the edge of the island. The monster is pi*r from that point and can only cover 3r in the time that Day9 needs to reach that point and get in the water. Here Day9 is making a break perpendicularly from the r/4 circle.

Optimally, Day9 should make his break on a tangent to the r/4 circle in a direct line for the gate. This causes the monster to swim more of arcs of the circle in pursuit (the monster is assumed to be pursuing the long way) while Day9 makes progress in getting off the island.

The math gets complicated from there and there's some pursuit diff. eqs. I'll add more later.
Moderator我们是个踏实的赞助商模式俱乐部
Quasimoto3000
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States471 Posts
November 14 2011 08:26 GMT
#103
+ Show Spoiler +
The correct answer to this problem is a computer algorithm called binary search. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_search_algorithm
If there are n floors, you will find the correct floor after checking log(n) floors
Every sunday a nun lays from my gunplay
Kiarip
Profile Joined August 2008
United States1835 Posts
November 14 2011 09:18 GMT
#104
On November 14 2011 17:26 Quasimoto3000 wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
The correct answer to this problem is a computer algorithm called binary search. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binary_search_algorithm
If there are n floors, you will find the correct floor after checking log(n) floors

not true. Binary Search can easily break 2 eggs np np.
TanGeng
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sanya12364 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-14 17:27:03
November 14 2011 11:50 GMT
#105
On November 13 2011 17:50 Warble wrote:
Day9 is on an perfectly circular island of radius r surrounded by water. The water monster from Amnesia is in the water waiting for Day9 to leave the island. Day9 must eventually leave the island to continue the game, or else his viewers will scorn his manhood. There is gate some distance away in the water - the specifics here don't matter. We all know that he must head for that gate.

Day9 runs at speed s both on land and in water (this is the shallow water area he knows and loves) and has unlimited stamina. The water monster swims at speed 4s, clearly outpacing Day9. This monster is tougher because it always knows where Day9 is, even when he's not in the water, and it will always take the fastest route to his position, even while he is on land. (The original monster only moved when Day9 was in the water. This monster has no such restriction. It moves all the time - but can only move in water.)

However, Day9 is awesome at maths and immediately works out how to best prolong his life so that we can all enjoy the maximum amount of pants-wetting terror.

What strategy gives Day9 the best chances of reaching that gate? Can he safely enter the water? Can you prove (mathematically or otherwise) that this is the best strategy?


Intermediate Strat: (still on the island)
+ Show Spoiler +

First of all, let's start by agreeing that Day9 is really fucking smart, and all we're trying to figure out is What Would Day9 Do. WWDD? That's right.
He's already miles ahead of us by running full speed as soon as he starts the strategy because he knows that it doesn't make sense to run any slower. Plus he's boss because of his ungodly stamina. Look at those legs go.
He's worked through the strategy in part 1: http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=285063&currentpage=6#102 to get ahead of the monster by running around in circles inside the 1/4r circle and if he messed up he could always come back and try again. Day9's thought ahead, but how did he know when to make a dash for the gate?

First he busted out the polar coordinates and simplified the problem. Radius of the island becomes 1. His own speed becomes C. The speed of the monster becomes 4C. (To be honest, Day9 doesn't care how fast he's running and needed r & s for more important things.) As long as Day9 was inside the circle and the monster was chasing him, the monster's position was bounded by
[image loading]

Day9 then imagined that he took the plunge and was out in no man's land beyond the safe circle of 1/4 and making a break for the shore. What was the optimum way to run for the shore? He knew he was bound by a parametric equation and the pythagorean theorem of the angular and radial differentials:
[image loading]

Then he had to optimize outward movement over monster's angular gain. He wanted a path that gets him as close to the shore as possible while minimizing the angular catchup that the monster would achieve. The sign in the denominator has to be a minus, otherwise Day9 is going towards the monsters and should retry!
[image loading]

Then subbed in the radial differential from the pythagorean theorem:
[image loading]
Sanity check here. If Day9 chooses angular motion of 0, he should get a ratio of 1/4. He moves C out, the monster moves 4C around an arc. And it's true! I'm still sane.

At this point, Day9 probably subbed in for angular movement, but frankly the following equation was beyond me. Day9 is hardcore:
[image loading]

Then take the derivative with respect to the angular differential using chain rule and solve for zero. Some stuff fell out and the derivative looks like: (the denominator of the derivative doesn't matter as much but again good for sanity checks)
[image loading]

plug that back into the pythagorean theorem and solve for radial differential and integrate to get the parametrized equation for radius.
[image loading]

You know what that looks like? Day9 took one look and recognized it as the pythagorean theorem equation. What a smart guy. Reorganize and boom (pretend C0 is 0 for a bit)!!!
[image loading]
He also knows that he's running Ct for distance so his parametric equation for path looks very much like a straight line. Day9 would make a beeline break for at his target point on the shore when it is tangent to the 1/4 circle that he was already running, checking once to see that monster was chasing the long way around.

Solve for theta to prove that it is indeed a line, and it looks like a proper inverse tangent function for the line:
[image loading]

Are we done yet? Nope! We still have to figure out how Day9 chose where on the shore to run for and how he decided to run after reaching the water. Dammit Day9. Why are you so smart.

Moderator我们是个踏实的赞助商模式俱乐部
NoodleFish
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
South Africa198 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-14 20:12:24
November 14 2011 20:11 GMT
#106
+ Show Spoiler +
I would say to drop on floor 100, then 50. If it broke on 100, but not 50, try 75, otherwise 25.
Basically this would be the interval halving method, and you would use the minimum amount of drops to find out where it breaks.

Alternatively, pick a floor, drop the egg, and hope you've got it right
"He accidentally attacked his own nexus with a probe. Then half way through the game, poof! No more nexus. That's gotta suck!"
See.Blue
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
United States2673 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-14 20:34:39
November 14 2011 20:31 GMT
#107
+ Show Spoiler +

Drop from 14. Assuming no breaks, drop form these floors until first break: 27 39 50 60 69 77 84 90 95 99

After first break, start at last known successful floor +1 then go by 1's up. This algorithm yields worst-case-scenario of 14 drops


Edit: Wooo i agree with flamewheel
evanthebouncy!
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
United States12796 Posts
November 16 2011 10:10 GMT
#108
On November 15 2011 05:31 See.Blue wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +

Drop from 14. Assuming no breaks, drop form these floors until first break: 27 39 50 60 69 77 84 90 95 99

After first break, start at last known successful floor +1 then go by 1's up. This algorithm yields worst-case-scenario of 14 drops


Edit: Wooo i agree with flamewheel


Im so amazed at you guys just straight up doing the problem. My friend and I had to write a python script and when we discovered it is 14 we were so amazed and starred at it for 5 minutes for its beauty hahahahahaha
Life is run, it is dance, it is fast, passionate and BAM!, you dance and sing and booze while you can for now is the time and time is mine. Smile and laugh when still can for now is the time and soon you die!
Ivs
Profile Joined January 2008
Australia139 Posts
November 16 2011 13:17 GMT
#109
On November 16 2011 19:10 evanthebouncy! wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 15 2011 05:31 See.Blue wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +

Drop from 14. Assuming no breaks, drop form these floors until first break: 27 39 50 60 69 77 84 90 95 99

After first break, start at last known successful floor +1 then go by 1's up. This algorithm yields worst-case-scenario of 14 drops


Edit: Wooo i agree with flamewheel


Im so amazed at you guys just straight up doing the problem. My friend and I had to write a python script and when we discovered it is 14 we were so amazed and starred at it for 5 minutes for its beauty hahahahahaha


+ Show Spoiler +

Not sure if someone has mentioned yet, but for completeness, a way to show that 13 definitely doesn't work is:

Possible outcomes of the 13 drops
If two breaks occur: 13C2 = 78
Only one break: 13
No breaks: 1

That's a total of 92 outcomes, which is not sufficient to differentiate the 101 possible outcomes of a 100 level building.
TanGeng
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sanya12364 Posts
November 16 2011 16:39 GMT
#110
On November 16 2011 22:17 Ivs wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +

Not sure if someone has mentioned yet, but for completeness, a way to show that 13 definitely doesn't work is:

Possible outcomes of the 13 drops
If two breaks occur: 13C2 = 78
Only one break: 13
No breaks: 1

That's a total of 92 outcomes, which is not sufficient to differentiate the 101 possible outcomes of a 100 level building.


Nice brute force counting way of proving it! A little more more elegance you have:
+ Show Spoiler +

[image loading]

But I think it's easier to omit no breaks and think in number of levels rather than number of breakage results. It is only adding 1 to each side of the equation.

Generalized for any number of eggs:
[image loading]

Moderator我们是个踏实的赞助商模式俱乐部
Iranon
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States983 Posts
November 16 2011 18:07 GMT
#111
On November 13 2011 17:50 Warble wrote:
I also have another one. It is similar to a level in Chip's Challenge. I don't know which came first, whether Chip's Challenge originated the idea or whether it was adapted from the idea.

Day9 is on an perfectly circular island of radius r surrounded by water. The water monster from Amnesia is in the water waiting for Day9 to leave the island. Day9 must eventually leave the island to continue the game, or else his viewers will scorn his manhood. There is gate some distance away in the water - the specifics here don't matter. We all know that he must head for that gate.

Day9 runs at speed s both on land and in water (this is the shallow water area he knows and loves) and has unlimited stamina. The water monster swims at speed 4s, clearly outpacing Day9. This monster is tougher because it always knows where Day9 is, even when he's not in the water, and it will always take the fastest route to his position, even while he is on land. (The original monster only moved when Day9 was in the water. This monster has no such restriction. It moves all the time - but can only move in water.)

However, Day9 is awesome at maths and immediately works out how to best prolong his life so that we can all enjoy the maximum amount of pants-wetting terror.

What strategy gives Day9 the best chances of reaching that gate? Can he safely enter the water? Can you prove (mathematically or otherwise) that this is the best strategy?


Ha! I loved Chip's Challenge. You mean this level, right?
[image loading]
TanGeng
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sanya12364 Posts
November 16 2011 20:38 GMT
#112
About Day9's race to the gate we're off the island, but it's really hard to prove. Here's what I think is the best solution though:

+ Show Spoiler +

Day9's lead in arcs at point of entry into the water is about .58 (compare this to .14 when doing the native perpendicular way) and that means that he's got an upper bound on the gate's distance from his point of entry into the water at about .19. If the gate is pictured according to scale at C, Day9 knows he's doomed.
[image loading]

It's easier to prove that aiming for F is better than aiming for B.
Moderator我们是个踏实的赞助商模式俱乐部
TanGeng
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sanya12364 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-16 21:00:31
November 16 2011 20:59 GMT
#113
On November 13 2011 15:05 rotinegg wrote:
You got 13 bottles of wine, one of which is poisoned. You got 4 lab rats, which you can test the wine on. Once poisoned, the rat will die after 23 hours 58 minutes + or - 1 minute. You are having guests in 24 hours, and must prepare 12 bottles of un-poisoned wine. What is your strategy of testing out the wine bottles?


+ Show Spoiler +

Another counting problem.
You do this by feeding each bottle to a unique combinations of rats. When that combination of rats die you know you'll which bottle was the culprit (no rats is a possibility). For 4 rats there is 2^4 or 16 possible combinations and more than enough for the 13 bottles.


On November 13 2011 17:04 rotinegg wrote:
You got a 95 by 85 by 2000 cube, made up of little 1x1x1 cubes, just like a rubiks cube. Your buddy paints the outside of the 95x85x2000 cube black, and smashes it into 95x85x2000 little pieces of 1x1x1 cubes. He then puts all the cubes in a bag. He shakes the bag up, then pulls one out at random, and rolls it like a die. What's the probability that the top face is black?


+ Show Spoiler +

First we'll consider the cube along 3 axis (x for the 2000 thick, y for the 85 thick, z for the 95 thick).
We'll partition the outcome into 3 equally possible subcategories. The cube's top face could be aligned along the x axis, the y axis, or the z axis.

For each of the of these axis subcategories, the probability that the side is painted 1/n where n is the thickness of the cube along that axis. There are 2 painted sides and 2 * n total sides.

The probability of rolling a painted side is 1/3(1/85+1/95+1/2000)
Moderator我们是个踏实的赞助商模式俱乐部
Prev 1 4 5 6 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1h 42m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 816
actioN 800
Zeus 278
Killer 205
EffOrt 194
Shinee 179
Leta 162
Light 119
ToSsGirL 109
zelot 63
[ Show more ]
yabsab 17
NotJumperer 14
Noble 12
scan(afreeca) 11
Dota 2
XcaliburYe526
ODPixel309
XaKoH 246
League of Legends
JimRising 524
Counter-Strike
shoxiejesuss616
olofmeister347
Other Games
summit1g8933
ceh9537
Happy234
Tasteless157
Mew2King51
Nina38
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick573
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• LUISG 25
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 3
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Rush1257
• Stunt774
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
1h 42m
Map Test Tournament
2h 42m
OSC
7h 42m
SKillous vs Krystianer
GgMaChine vs Demi
ArT vs Creator
INexorable vs TBD
ReBellioN vs TriGGeR
UedSoldier vs Iba
sOs vs Moja
Map Test Tournament
1d 2h
OSC
1d 4h
Korean StarCraft League
1d 18h
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
Map Test Tournament
2 days
OSC
2 days
[BSL 2025] Weekly
2 days
[ Show More ]
Safe House 2
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
Map Test Tournament
3 days
OSC
3 days
IPSL
3 days
Bonyth vs Art_Of_Turtle
Razz vs rasowy
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - TS2
Maestros of the Game
HCC Europe

Ongoing

BSL 21 Points
ASL Season 20
CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
WardiTV TLMC #15
EC S1
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025

Upcoming

SC4ALL: Brood War
BSL Season 21
BSL 21 Team A
RSL Offline Finals
RSL Revival: Season 3
Stellar Fest
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.