
Math Puzzle [num 20] - Page 4
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Frozenhelfire
United States420 Posts
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Warble
137 Posts
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Frozenhelfire
United States420 Posts
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hypercube
Hungary2735 Posts
On November 13 2011 17:29 Warble wrote: Is this a trick question? It looks very straightforward. + Show Spoiler + This only trick I can think of is that the cube must be hollow. Then to get the number of cubes, we take the surface area, subtract 1 for each edge, and add 1 for each corner. n = 2 * (95*85 + 95*2000 + 85*2000) - 4 * (95 + 85 + 2000) + 4 = 727,434 The surface area is simply the first term in that equation, so we just take that over 6n (the number of faces) and get: P = 16.9%. Or roughly 1/6 since the 2nd and 3rd terms are tiny compared to the 1st. EDIT: I just realised there are 8 corners, not 4. Oh well. + Show Spoiler + I think it's a "trick" question because you can overthink by looking at edges, corners and whatnot. There are 6x85x95x2000 sides and 2x(85x95+85x2000+95x2000) sides are painted black. There's no need to treat edges and corners differently: you want to double and triple count them because they have 2 and 3 sides painted black respectively. | ||
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rotinegg
United States1719 Posts
On November 13 2011 17:50 Warble wrote: I also have another one. It is similar to a level in Chip's Challenge. I don't know which came first, whether Chip's Challenge originated the idea or whether it was adapted from the idea. Day9 is on an perfectly circular island of radius r surrounded by water. The water monster from Amnesia is in the water waiting for Day9 to leave the island. Day9 must eventually leave the island to continue the game, or else his viewers will scorn his manhood. There is gate some distance away in the water, the specifics here don't matter. We all know that he must head for that gate. Day9 runs at speed s both on land and in water (this is the shallow water area he knows and loves) and has unlimited stamina. The water monster swims at speed 4s, clearly outpacing Day9. This monster is a tougher because it always knows where Day9 is, even when he's not in the water, and it will always take the fastest route to his position. However, Day9 is awesome at maths and immediately works out how to best prolong his life so that we can all enjoy the maximum amount of pants-wetting terror. What strategy gives Day9 the best chances of reaching that gate? Can he safely enter the water? Can you prove (mathematically or otherwise) that this is the best strategy? + Show Spoiler [watermonster vs Day9] + Day9 would start to run in a spiral until he reaches the inner circle with radius length r/4. He would time make the spiral pattern in a way so that when he reaches r/4 away from the center, the monster would be on the other side of the island, lagging a full 180degrees behind. That is when Day9 would make a run for it straight to the coast (no more spiraling), and hopefully find a gate in the water. He can definitely make it to the coast, but not much more. I think this is the best strategy because the max distance you can get the water monster to swim around is half of the island's circumference, or pi*r. At the circle with radius length r/4, you can keep up with the monster in terms of angular velocity (2*pi*r / 4s = (2*pi*r / 4) / s), so you can definitely outrun the monster inside that circle. Since Day9 is so smart, I will leave it up to him to come up with the spiral formula that will land him at the r/4 point with exactly a half circle lead on the monster. The distance Day9 covers from that point to the point on the coast along the same radial line is 3r/4, which will take 3r/4s time, while the monster must swim pi*r, which will take pi*r/4s, about .14r/4s more than it takes Day9 to reach the coast. If Day9 doesn't see a gate nearby, he must repeat the same process for every degree, minute and second of the island's entire 360 degrees. Not sure if this is the solution you were looking for... something feels amiss | ||
Warble
137 Posts
On November 13 2011 17:46 rotinegg wrote: You have a 99 meter pole, and it is one-dimensional. There are 100 cats that occupy the pole, all evenly spaced so that there is a cat every meter. These ain't no normal cats: they have no width or length; just height. They also walk at a constant speed of 1m/s, and have infinite acceleration so they can start walking or turn in the opposite direction instantaneously. Now, 50 cats on the left side of the bar start out facing right, and the other 50 on the right side start out facing left. When you blow a whistle, they will all start walking in the direction they are facing, but turn around and start walking the other way once they hit another cat. If they reach the end of the bar, they will just fall off. Assuming this, how long does it take for all the cats to fall off the bar? + Show Spoiler + So we want to find out how long it takes for the middle cats to fall off. Time and distance are equivalent in this puzzle. Let's consider the 50th cat. It walks for 0.5 s right and bumps. Turns and walks 0.5 s left and bumps into cat 49. This means cat 50 ends up back where it started after 1 s and cat 49 is now facing left. We don't really need to follow the analysis for cat 49 because now it's obvious that the "bump wave" travels left at 1 m/s starting from the middle after 0.5 s. Now let's consider cat 1. It's travelling right at 1 m/s. Combine this with the wave and we see that they're approaching each other at 2 m/s. So cat 1 is bumped after 22.5 s + 0.5 s. After which cat 1 is doomed. What about cat 2? There is a new "bump wave" every 1 s, ... Due to symmetry, we can treat this puzzle as a 45.5 metre pole with a wall on one end. So the analysis for this side applies to the other side. Actually, forget all that. This puzzle is simple. We can already see that each bump wave will knock off 1 cat. There are 50 cats, so cat 50 will carry the 50th bump wave all the way to the end. Since each bump wave lasts 1 s, and begins after 0.5 s, the 50th bump wave occurs at 50.5 s, whereupon cat 50 has 99/2 = 45.5 m to walk. So the last pair of cats fall off at 96 seconds. Yes, there's more that Day9 can do to outsmart the monster. You know its behaviour...use it... | ||
Frozenhelfire
United States420 Posts
On November 13 2011 18:21 rotinegg wrote: + Show Spoiler [watermonster vs Day9] + Day9 would start to run in a spiral until he reaches the inner circle with radius length r/4. He would time make the spiral pattern in a way so that when he reaches r/4 away from the center, the monster would be on the other side of the island, lagging a full 180degrees behind. That is when Day9 would make a run for it straight to the coast (no more spiraling), and hopefully find a gate in the water. He can definitely make it to the coast, but not much more. I think this is the best strategy because the max distance you can get the water monster to swim around is half of the island's circumference, or pi*r. At the circle with radius length r/4, you can keep up with the monster in terms of angular velocity (2*pi*r / 4s = (2*pi*r / 4) / s), so you can definitely outrun the monster inside that circle. Since Day9 is so smart, I will leave it up to him to come up with the spiral formula that will land him at the r/4 point with exactly a half circle lead on the monster. The distance Day9 covers from that point to the point on the coast along the same radial line is 3r/4, which will take 3r/4s time, while the monster must swim pi*r, which will take pi*r/4s, about .14r/4s more than it takes Day9 to reach the coast. If Day9 doesn't see a gate nearby, he must repeat the same process for every degree, minute and second of the island's entire 360 degrees. Not sure if this is the solution you were looking for... something feels amiss I don't think that solution works. Unless I'm not understanding something, the monster can't lag 180 degrees behind unless Day runs through the center of the circle. I think I see where you're trying to go with this, but it doesn't quite work because the monster would simply change directions if Day did the spiraling thing. | ||
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rotinegg
United States1719 Posts
On November 13 2011 18:33 Frozenhelfire wrote: I don't think that solution works. Unless I'm not understanding something, the monster can't lag 180 degrees behind unless Day runs through the center of the circle. I think I see where you're trying to go with this, but it doesn't quite work because the monster would simply change directions if Day did the spiraling thing. Would the monster know what Day9 is doing? I was simply going off the assumption that the water monster only knows how to reduce the distance between Day9 and itself at any given point and nothing more... In which case it wouldn't turn around when it is less than half a lap behind Day9, because turning around would mean there would be more ground to cover. | ||
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rotinegg
United States1719 Posts
On November 13 2011 18:32 Warble wrote: + Show Spoiler + So we want to find out how long it takes for the middle cats to fall off. Time and distance are equivalent in this puzzle. Let's consider the 50th cat. It walks for 0.5 s right and bumps. Turns and walks 0.5 s left and bumps into cat 49. This means cat 50 ends up back where it started after 1 s and cat 49 is now facing left. We don't really need to follow the analysis for cat 49 because now it's obvious that the "bump wave" travels left at 1 m/s starting from the middle after 0.5 s. Now let's consider cat 1. It's travelling right at 1 m/s. Combine this with the wave and we see that they're approaching each other at 2 m/s. So cat 1 is bumped after 22.5 s + 0.5 s. After which cat 1 is doomed. What about cat 2? There is a new "bump wave" every 1 s, ... Due to symmetry, we can treat this puzzle as a 45.5 metre pole with a wall on one end. So the analysis for this side applies to the other side. Actually, forget all that. This puzzle is simple. We can already see that each bump wave will knock off 1 cat. There are 50 cats, so cat 50 will carry the 50th bump wave all the way to the end. Since each bump wave lasts 1 s, and begins after 0.5 s, the 50th bump wave occurs at 50.5 s, whereupon cat 50 has 99/2 = 45.5 m to walk. So the last pair of cats fall off at 96 seconds. The 50th cat would walk 0.5s right and bump, correct, but it would walk less than 0.5s to the left because cat 49 also walked during that time, no? hehe answer is off I'm still thinking about the pirate booty one... grr + Show Spoiler + So my generalization still holds for pirates <= 202, because the seniors would still want to live even if it means getting no gold. Now, I'm not sure how I would go about it afterwards... When n=203, senior needs 101 votes to not be killed, but only has 100 coins... T_T | ||
Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
I think the first egg need to go up the floor in increments of 3. This is the best solution I can think of. | ||
Warble
137 Posts
On November 13 2011 18:41 rotinegg wrote: The 50th cat would walk 0.5s right and bump, correct, but it would walk less than 0.5s to the left because cat 49 also walked during that time, no? hehe answer is off The distance between cat 49 and cat 50 is 1 m and doesn't change until cat 50 bumps into cat 51, after which 49 and 50 approach each other at 2 m/s, which means 0.5 s to close the gap. | ||
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rotinegg
United States1719 Posts
On November 13 2011 18:44 Warble wrote: The distance between cat 49 and cat 50 is 1 m and doesn't change until cat 50 bumps into cat 51, after which 49 and 50 approach each other at 2 m/s, which means 0.5 s to close the gap. Ooh, you're right, my brain farted for a second... there's still a mistake somewhere because the correct answer is off.. hmmm.. also there is a very simple way of solving this, which made me go nuts after I heard it, because by that point my brain was full of cats walking back and forth, bouncing off of eachother and falling off poles.. haha edit: your mistake was at 99/2 = 45.5m ![]() | ||
Frozenhelfire
United States420 Posts
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rotinegg
United States1719 Posts
On November 13 2011 18:51 Frozenhelfire wrote: I guess it depends on how rational we assume the monster to be. I actually misunderstood what you were getting at, but I think i see it now. He basically starts at some offset between 0 degrees and 180 degrees, and runs in a semi-circle with the end-point being a tangent line from the inner circle to the gate. He does this at a distance in which he can move around the circle faster than the monster, so that the tangent line distance is less than the radius. This would require him to be in a distance such that the circumference of the circle he runs in is more than 4x smaller than the island circumference. Thinking about it practically, it would have to be small(er) enough to get enough of a lead. I'm not sure if the math could work out for Day to get off the island. The math works out so he can barely reach the coast before the monster does, (pi-3)r/4s faster to be precise, but since there is no information on how far off the gate is from the coast, I couldn't proceed any further from that. | ||
Frozenhelfire
United States420 Posts
![]() Yea, he could also do one of those dealies, and make a fillet between the gray and red lines to increase the distance he can cover. That might end up being the same as the spiral thing, but this is the general idea you were getting at, right? | ||
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rotinegg
United States1719 Posts
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Frozenhelfire
United States420 Posts
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Warble
137 Posts
On November 13 2011 12:31 evanthebouncy! wrote: This one is a classic, but can you do it? You have 2 identical eggs, and a 100 floor building. You wish to find out the highest floor number in which the egg can be dropped without breaking. Describe a strategy which you can precisely find that floor number in the fewest drops. Q&A: Q: But, what do you mean "fewest?" A: I mean at the worst case. For instance, your strategy might be try fl1, then fl2, then 3 4 5... Under this strategy, the worst that can happen is the egg never breaks, i.e. it can be dropped from over 100 floors, which will take you all 100 drops to find out. So, this strategy takes 100 drops. Q: Does the egg crack if dropped repeatidly? A: No, egg is good as new as long as it don't break yet. Again, put answers in spoilers per usual. Collaborate, have fun! --evan + Show Spoiler + The first thing I notice is that we need decreasing intervals between drops. So if we start on 10, then we want both break and non-break scenarios to have similar remaining tries. Break means we try 1->9, worst case scenario of 9 subsequent tries (10 total). So 10 is only an optimum start if non-break also has a worst case of 9 subsequent tries. And we know this is no longer possible because this means we then pick 19, then 27, and it's obvious we're not going to get very far. Looking at the high end, we know that our last try is 100 to check if the eggs ever break. And we want to pick n such that we minimise the number of iterations before reaching 100. We can solve this by working backwards. We must end on 100. 2nd last is 99. It can't be 98 because if 100 breaks then we have possibilities [99,100] and no tries remaining. 3rd last is 97. That way, if 99 breaks, we can try 98 with our final try. 4th last is 94. This is because if 97 breaks, we have 2 tries left, for 95 and 96. From here it's clear that the size of the spread increases by 1 for each try we go back. This gives the sequence: 9, 22, 34, 45, 55. 64, 72, 79, 85, 90, 94, 97, 99, 100. This involves a total of 14 tries in the worst case. So the minimum number of tries is 14. We can begin on any floor [9,14]. My solution covers the lowest floors possible for each attempt in the primary sequence. The highest floors possible can be found by starting on 14 and increasing in increments of 13, 12, 11, etc. and ending on floor 100. As for Day9: + Show Spoiler + So you've worked out that he can safely make it to the water. But he's still got more tricks up his sleeves. What else can he do to increase the time he stays alive after reaching the water? | ||
BottleAbuser
Korea (South)1888 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + If you don't assume he runs on the line connecting the gate and the center of the island, and instead runs on a curve from the r/4 circle, he might get closer to the gate before the monster reaches him. Of course, exactly how much of a lead this would give him would diminish based on how far the gate is, but would still be >0 as long as the gate is not infinitely far away. I can't think of how to model this though, I think it would involve some sort of curve. | ||
sidr
United States55 Posts
On November 13 2011 18:48 rotinegg wrote: Ooh, you're right, my brain farted for a second... there's still a mistake somewhere because the correct answer is off.. hmmm.. also there is a very simple way of solving this, which made me go nuts after I heard it, because by that point my brain was full of cats walking back and forth, bouncing off of eachother and falling off poles.. haha edit: your mistake was at 99/2 = 45.5m ![]() I'm guessing this is the simple solution you're talking about: + Show Spoiler + Don't consider collisions as bouncing cats. Instead, every collision has the same effect as having the two cats pass through one another. Thus, the time will be the maximum of the times it would take each individual cat to fall off if no other cats were present. We have a 99m pole and a cat on the left facing right moving at 1m/s, so this is 99s. | ||
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