On October 31 2011 17:42 shaun3h wrote: I was never a strategy game player. I came in at sc2 a couple of months back therefore i will never appreciate bw in the way most of you will.
Instead of having grown up with it and had the emotional attachment, seeing how groundbreaking it was at the time, experiencing the ups and downs of following the pros in tournaments... in my head im stuck with the rather primitive thought "this looks less pretty and less intuitive then sc2". By having sc2 first instead of looking for all the positives in a new and exciting game im forced to compare it to what i have, not what you had.. i just can't fall in love the same way.
I may well be missing out on the greatest game ever made but unfortunately like the OP i can't feel the magic. Instead of being shown the first car ever made in all it's glory, im being shown it after having owned a modern day one. The original may have been amazing, groundbreaking, well made, thought out and designed... but its impossible to appreciate it properly with the newer version on my drive. Obviously an exaggerated metaphor but from many of my other friends gaming (who've come to sc2 w/o bw experience), the feeling is similar in that we only could've appreciated bw in the same way as many of you if we had also seen it before sc2
instead of focusing on which game is better then another, more popular, thriving/dying, etc i think sadly, although its not for any malicious reason, many of us will simply never share the same view.
I understand im a rather ignorant "caveman fps gamer" compared to pretty much every user here but hopefully nothing in this post is wildy offensive to bw players/followers im just trying to explain my perspective coming from an fps.
The car comparison is flawed. Objects that are used for functional purposes can be replaced by newer models. Why? The newer ones function better, and function is why we use them. Simple as that. But this does not, and cannot apply to the realm of entertainment. Newer music does not supersede older music; Justin Bieber is younger and fresher looking than some old hairy rock star. Like that means jack shit. Newer movies are not better than classic movies because they're shinier and have better special effects. Twilight is not better because it's newer and its cover is prettier than my beatup copy of the Phantom Tollbooth. Pokemon White's release does not in any way diminish Pokemon Silver and all its splendor, despite it having better graphics and an insane 3D world (what is that shit anyway).
Honestly, what you're saying just sounds like an excuse. Of course there is personal preference, but that comes after you've actually tried both things. What this sounds like to me is that you simply dismissed BW on the grounds that it looks old and less shiny, and then tried to tell us that you're virtually incapable of liking older things, so you shouldn't even have to bother. And um, "what you have"? I have SC2. I played SC2 before I ever played BW. I just happened to keep an open mind: maybe it's not about pretty graphics and there's a reason why so many people still play this game 12 years later. I don't see how release order should affect anything.
On October 31 2011 18:44 arb wrote: What the fuck? Are you a heathen?
Lets go to a site that started out for Broodwar and slap all the fans/long time members in the face by saying "sorry guys Broodwar doesnt have any magic and actually isnt that good"
This guy pretty much has a point too. While it could be said more nicely, but this is pretty much it.
Edit: At the car comparison above - let's make this comparison more simple. Think of a race car. You've got to shift yourself, you got to control the car yourself. That's the classical way of doing it. Right? You do everything yourself except providing the HP etc. That would be BW for you.
Compare it to a newer kind of race car. You don't have to shift anymore, you don't have to break anymore. All you got to do is steer and accelerate. That's pretty much SC2 in comparison.
Whyand how am I saying this? Well, that's the so called "mechanics" for you. Broodwar has no MBS, no auto-mining or auto-cast. That's the race car comparison for you.
Sure, it might be possible that in the newer kind of race car you will be able to drive faster laps and you'll do less mistakes and there might even be less crashes happening. So for the most logically thinking individuals, the second car should be the "better one".
No need to tell you the real race car is still a lot more exciting to those, who actually experienced the reign of the "real" ones, right?
On October 31 2011 17:42 shaun3h wrote: I was never a strategy game player. I came in at sc2 a couple of months back therefore i will never appreciate bw in the way most of you will.
Instead of having grown up with it and had the emotional attachment, seeing how groundbreaking it was at the time, experiencing the ups and downs of following the pros in tournaments... in my head im stuck with the rather primitive thought "this looks less pretty and less intuitive then sc2". By having sc2 first instead of looking for all the positives in a new and exciting game im forced to compare it to what i have, not what you had.. i just can't fall in love the same way.
I may well be missing out on the greatest game ever made but unfortunately like the OP i can't feel the magic. Instead of being shown the first car ever made in all it's glory, im being shown it after having owned a modern day one. The original may have been amazing, groundbreaking, well made, thought out and designed... but its impossible to appreciate it properly with the newer version on my drive. Obviously an exaggerated metaphor but from many of my other friends gaming (who've come to sc2 w/o bw experience), the feeling is similar in that we only could've appreciated bw in the same way as many of you if we had also seen it before sc2
instead of focusing on which game is better then another, more popular, thriving/dying, etc i think sadly, although its not for any malicious reason, many of us will simply never share the same view.
I understand im a rather ignorant "caveman fps gamer" compared to pretty much every user here but hopefully nothing in this post is wildy offensive to bw players/followers im just trying to explain my perspective coming from an fps.
It's strange that you and the OP both have this same misconception...
I guess I can't speak for everyone, so I'll write the rest of this in the first person.
To be honest, I really don't care whether you like BW or not. That's not where the whole SC2 vs BW conflict located.
Think of it this way:
For me, pro BW has been something I've followed closely for close to five, six years now. I'm not even a real old timer. Since my Korean friends got me into it during my freshmen year of college, I've quite literally thought about this game every day. This is on top of having played for hundreds of hours when I was younger when it first came out. I lived and breathed this game without ever even having played an online match.
Then suddenly SC2 is announced, and we're all very excited for it. The community blows up, and traffic to this site triples and continues to grow as time passes. Then the game is released into beta, and suddenly we're very worried...the game is really not that good...in fact, you could say it's mediocre. The beta closes, and we just sit on our hands and wait for the game to come out. It's released, and is still mediocre.
The issue we have with SC2 is that it's really not the great game it needs to be. There are a number of fundamental issues with it that will prevent it from having the longevity and depth that BW has enjoyed, and the recent Browder interview by Kennigit has shown us that they really have no intention of fixing those fundamental problems to make the game better.
Let me clarify, though, that SC2 is a mediocre game in comparison to BW. When you compare SC2 to every other game in the genre, it's amazing.
Now here's the real problem...SC2 is slowly killing off BW. Anyone who says otherwise is delusional. SC2 is going to take the place of BW eventually. The foreign BW scene is even more dead than it was before. The Korean BW scene is being backed into a corner. This is a game that's been a huge part of our lives for years and is under threat of disappearing.
Personally, I've come to accept that BW is eventually going to die. It's something I think about quite literally every day, but I know that it's going to happen. SC2 is the next best thing, and is its direct successor. And so I want SC2 to be good. I want it to be as good as BW is. I want it to last forever, and I want to love the pro scene as much as I love the BW pro scene.
I don't expect you to feel the same way I do about BW. I do, however, expect you to respect the way I feel about the game, and I expect you to more or less understand why I resent SC2, even if you don't like it, and I expect you to also understand that this site was built on BW. Honest to god, all we want is for SC2 to be able to take BW's place, but it's not there and isn't even moving in that direction.
I dont think we understand each other at all, i dont deny bw might be a better game, i was just trying to explain why i personally couldn't quite appreciate bw in the same light. As a direct result of that I couldn't understand why a sequel in a series replacing a previous game was such a bad thing.
Sc2 may be easier, less deep, have irrelevant benefits over bw like graphics and have fundamental problems in your eyes but at the same time i wish you and other bw players would see the positive side of some of the aspects.. how many people like me who never could've imagined playing strategy having gone into fps titles at the original cod/cs have been brought in? how many more people are playing sc2 because it looks good and is easier to get into? could you honestly say in the long term would bw have grown to be the biggest esports title like sc2 is? Had sc2 not existed do you think bw is accessible enough with the learning curve/most of the decent casts in korean/the main competition only in korea/etc to have grown instead?
like every exchange though i find the starting tone is part of the problem: you dont care whether i like bw or not but i should understand the game i do play is fundamentally bad or "mediocre" and yours is great. I should be sympathetic and allow you to trash talk sc2 without defending my game of choice or knocking yours because sc2 is killing bw..
Can you not see how that ^ kinda seems to provoke a negative response? you demand i see your point of view while dismissing mine as a mistake i must have made..
Obviously people are simply too emotional to have a reasonable discussion over the issue. I won't attack your game or troll you over it but i think some people do because of that kind of attitude . I wish your game all the best - i'd like to think it won't die given all i've heard about it but that remains to be seen.. and i obviously share the hope sc2 improves. At least there's some common ground.
On October 31 2011 18:43 iNfeRnaL wrote: While it sure might be biased to say BW is / has something magic, how can you say it's NOT there? That magic in BW can be seen everytime you saw something that was seemingly impossible before. Especially because the game was so old and long studied. Think of Bisu 3-0'ing Savior in his 85% winrate matchup... Think of Boxer in his early days with marine micro that made EVERYONE go like "wait, what did just happen?" and that's only very very few examples. Sure, you might now go like "but marine micro and splitting is there in SC2 as well, MVP even does it better than Boxer back then!!!" but if not for Boxer doing that in BW before anyone thought of doing that, MVP probably would not even dare to micro his marinesexist. Other than that I completely agree with what you say, how much we LIKE/LOVE games is definitely about what WE personally do experience in them - which also greatly explains why you don't feel as much for BW as those who really played it actively. Because, say what you want, but what is left of BW and it's scene today is not really as enjoyable anymore as the game was - lets say 4-5 years ago when it was still in its full swing.
Your post was very good, it just needed a little fix
Without BoxeR, eSports as we know them today would probably not exist. He made so many efforts and sacrifices to make the eSports dream come true. Reading BoxeR's biography was one of the most magical BW moments. It's truly inspiring and motivating. The mere fact he succeeded in creating a progaming team at the Korean Air Force was amazing. And all this was driven by the love for a magical game. Why no one has done something similar for other games ?
edit : lol at the new racing car comparison. Very accurate.
On October 31 2011 16:11 RedJustice wrote: I think if you bothered to read the post you would find it is actually quite sympathetic to BW and the people who love it. -.-
EDIT: @shindigs: That is exactly the whole point of everything I said. BW shaped your life, so it's magical and sparklez with everything wonderful and good about the world. If BW didn't shape my life, how can I experience that same magic? I can respect the game for what it's done, but it just can't have the same impact on me.
Yes you are correct that our own personal emotional/time investments into the game, the overall popularity, and the fervent clamor of the scene does make it more special and magical in our hearts.
That being true does not mean it's the only reason why SC is so awesome to us. Infact, it's at the very bottom of the list.
You have to remember, before all of us became obsessed with SC, we were just your average nerd gamers playing all sorts of games like quake, age of empires, diablo, etc. There was no sparkly magical world of pro-gaming, there was no Team Liquid, there was no emotional investment. But we just kept playing and playing and playing. Why? The game is fucking good on all levels. And you could attempt to counter argue saying that Counterstrike or Warcraft3 hardcore players could be saying the exact same thing.
But actually you can't. Why? With a few exceptions, almost every single person that I know that has played SC1 hardcore is an incredible person in one way or another. SC players are just a step above in intelligence from players of other games. SC players have lives and street smarts too. Hell, no one would even guess that most of us are gamer nerds at first glance. The demographic of people in the SC scene are many notches above the demographics of other games by a longshot in life(this is especially true for anyone that has played SC:BW on a high level). This isn't due to random variance, it's because the game is that "magical" to have captured the hearts of so many intelligent people. I can't count the amounts of retarded people I've met who like other games LOL.
And just because you've played some BGH and watched some pro-games on TV doesn't mean you know anything about the game whatsoever. The very fact that you made this blog shows that you know absolutely nothing about Starcraft.
every word u touch turns to fucking gold man. sc:bw was is beautiful
On October 31 2011 15:53 RedJustice wrote: These people don't understand the agony of seeing your team make it to the playoffs year and after year, and knowing they have the potential to reach the Super Bowl, and seeing them lose over and over.
On October 31 2011 16:28 Carnivorous Sheep wrote: There's this girl that you like. She's kinda cute but you don't know if you like her enough to "love" her or not. You spend some time and get to know her and before you know it you're in a 10 year relationship and have had some of the best times of your lives together.
Then some douchebag comes along and tells you she's ugly.
? I didn't say that. I said I came along, and you told me just how amazing she was, and how no other girl in the world is like her. And I talked to her a bit, and concluded that I don't feel the same way as you do about her, even though she's a really awesome person. I also concluded I probably also don't feel the same way because I don't have the same kind of experiences with her that you do that make you love her so much.
Do you do that in real life to people? If not why are you doing it here lol.
Not everyone likes the same things we don't need a poorly worded potentially antagonizing blog to get that point across.
I think the point of this blog is to get bw fans to stop talking about how its so much better than anything else; trying to point out that whatever elitism we hold is really a product of some irrational emotional response.
Well, there are a lot of concrete things you can say about why BW is better than other games:
It requires more practice and skill to play well. It is an old game that hasn't gotten old because there are still amazing things to be done with it.
But that doesn't make someone love a game, just appreciate it a ton.
I think there's a particular ferocity of BW love because many of the people who have followed it for years did so in a very serious way. It's easier to be a casual SC2 fan than a casual BW fan because there's so many opportunities to watch and interact. SC2 is the pretty girl who's automatically endearing if you're a nerd. BW is kind of old and blocky, and she doesn't come out unless it's the middle of the night, so the people who stay up to see her absolutely adore her and are extremely dedicated fans. The type of fans who build stuff like TLPD just because it's cool, not with any ESPORTS intentions in mind. That's where the hardcore feelings you're talking about are coming from.
Besides that, though, is the unbelievable depth that the game contains. That on its own, even without watching or playing it, deserves an immense amount of appreciation, and is why BW pros receive the utmost respect, even from professionals of other games. The more you watch and see the fine details, the more that respect will turn into love. So it is and it isn't within BW itself. Part of it is the culture that has developed around it, but that culture is also predicated upon the smallest details of the game, so much so that it is studied more than any other ESPORT to date. I think if you put in some time to find those details, it's impossible not to fall in love.
My suggestion is to pick an awesome team like CJ, and not a shitty team like SKT, and follow them through a Proleague season. Watching 1 final, without knowing the players in advance, isn't quite the same.
and she has a magic vagina
Yes, BW has one of these:
ROFL i am so baked and i can barely stop to type this without dying
LOL this guy is fucking hiliarous , watch the handjob vid HAHAHA
On October 31 2011 18:47 iNfeRnaL wrote: Edit: At the car comparison above - let's make this comparison more simple. Think of a race car. You've got to shift yourself, you got to control the car yourself. That's the classical way of doing it. Right? You do everything yourself except providing the HP etc. That would be BW for you.
Compare it to a newer kind of race car. You don't have to shift anymore, you don't have to break anymore. All you got to do is steer and accelerate. That's pretty much SC2 in comparison.
Whyand how am I saying this? Well, that's the so called "mechanics" for you. Broodwar has no MBS, no auto-mining or auto-cast. That's the race car comparison for you.
Sure, it might be possible that in the newer kind of race car you will be able to drive faster laps and you'll do less mistakes and there might even be less crashes happening. So for the most logically thinking individuals, the second car should be the "better one".
No need to tell you the real race car is still a lot more exciting to those, who actually experienced the reign of the "real" ones, right?
and if you own a tv station are you going to put on the skillful rally drivers shifting, breaking, taking different lines, facing different weather... or the nascar with people going round a circle for hours? at no point have i said sc2 is better then bw. Its just newer and is bringing in more people. More people will be more advertising revenue and so the teams/sponsors etc will all follow
I dont see why bw cant continue when its got so many passionate fans and players. The community seem_ by far _to be the most epic/loyal/dedicated for any game ive ever seen
that said sc2 growing isn't a bad thing.. with the amount of references from casters/players/pros who were previously bw/people on this site surely you will still get a portion of the people who move in because of sc2's popularity that will still discover bw and can keep it slowly growing if not quite at the same rate?
On October 31 2011 19:31 Cuddle wrote: Nvm, I want to stay a part of this community so I'm staying out. Sorry, ignore this post.
I doubt they are going to ban everyone who's posted, I think people are making some reasonable points and the discussion keeps coming up - i'd rather see it addressed though maybe theres old threads for that. As long as people aren't just blindly swearing at each other is it really going to be a problem?
While ignorance can be quite annoying, it doesn't bother me much~ but when you say the magic isn't in the game is just flat out wrong. Take a look at this beautiful website, the fans, the players, the coaches, the motherfucking parents of the players who realized how special this game is to their children and that support from them alone is another source of that magic(which is also another beautiful thing).
How dare you say that magic isn't there? I'm fine if you don't see it yourself but straight up telling people it's NOT there is insulting. That magic IS there, you just fail to see it. Off topic: Sadly I don't have any IRL friends who love BW as much as I do. I do have a few friends who think BW is an inferior game due to the many dumb reasons we have seen and read~ (also my friend tells me that terran is the weakest race and that stealth units are overpowered which is funny to me)
Now they're all really into SC2 and I'm thinking about the other that weren't into BW but are not into SC2. Where the hell is the love you have for SC2 for BW? This is probably the lamest thing ever to me. I can't see how people like SC2 but don't like BW and many reasons I'll get are just weak. I know they are two different games but they are quite similar to each other.. IMO if you like SC2 you should have no problem liking BW but well it's all subjective I guess.
On October 31 2011 19:31 Cuddle wrote: Nvm, I want to stay a part of this community so I'm staying out. Sorry, ignore this post.
I doubt they are going to ban everyone who's posted, I think people are making some reasonable points and the discussion keeps coming up - i'd rather see it addressed though maybe theres old threads for that. As long as people aren't just blindly swearing at each other is it really going to be a problem?
I made a comparison that, after posting it, I realized it might not be very appreciated (as you can see from the guy posting below my first post, thanks endy for being forgiving). I wasn't afraid to be banned, I just didn't want to insult anyone and I didn't realize until after my post that I might.
yes yes YES YES YES! you really have it man and I totally agree with you 100 and +5 %. We share the exact same opinion, and all the people against you are probably BW fans themselves. It is not the game, for anything in the whole entire world. Instead of 3 races fighting it could have been 2 sticks fighting each other (that is really random) or some other crazy thing. The only thing that matters is the community and how they evolve with the game. You grow with the game, you fall in love with the game with everyone else, your friends, colleagues, etc. Modern warfare fans, diablo fans, SC 1 and 2, warcraft, dota, boaboabaoa blabala the list goes on forever, they dont really care about the game THAT much (although yes it is pretty cool if they have flashy graphics or awesome tactics involved) but the nostalgia and community behind it is amazing and is what carries the game, and you have it spot on. I will try recommend getting this spotlighted GREAT THREAD
On October 31 2011 19:41 Sephy90 wrote: While ignorance can be quite annoying, it doesn't bother me much~ but when you say the magic isn't in the game is just flat out wrong. Take a look at this beautiful website, the fans, the players, the coaches, the motherfucking parents of the players who realized how special this game is to their children and that support from them alone is another source of that magic(which is also another beautiful thing).
How dare you say that magic isn't there? I'm fine if you don't see it yourself but straight up telling people it's NOT there is insulting. That magic IS there, you just fail to see it. Off topic: Sadly I don't have any IRL friends who love BW as much as I do. I do have a few friends who think BW is an inferior game due to the many dumb reasons we have seen and read~ (also my friend tells me that terran is the weakest race and that stealth units are overpowered which is funny to me)
Now they're all really into SC2 and I'm thinking about the other that weren't into BW but are not into SC2. Where the hell is the love you have for SC2 for BW? This is probably the lamest thing ever to me. I can't see how people like SC2 but don't like BW and many reasons I'll get are just weak. I know they are two different games but they are quite similar to each other.. IMO if you like SC2 you should have no problem liking BW but well it's all subjective I guess.
You only mentioned the community and players when talking about magic, not a single word about the game itself and that is what the OP is pointing at.
The BW community has the "magic", the game is just the part that connects everyone together and it could have theoretically been any other game at that time.
On October 31 2011 19:48 firehand101 wrote: yes yes YES YES YES! you really have it man and I totally agree with you 100 and +5 %. We share the exact same opinion, and all the people against you are probably BW fans themselves. It is not the game, for anything in the whole entire world. Instead of 3 races fighting it could have been 2 sticks fighting each other (that is really random) or some other crazy thing. The only thing that matters is the community and how they evolve with the game. You grow with the game, you fall in love with the game with everyone else, your friends, colleagues, etc. Modern warfare fans, diablo fans, SC 1 and 2, warcraft, dota, boaboabaoa blabala the list goes on forever, they dont really care about the game THAT much (although yes it is pretty cool if they have flashy graphics or awesome tactics involved) but the nostalgia and community behind it is amazing and is what carries the game, and you have it spot on. I will try recommend getting this spotlighted GREAT THREAD
no, the game is magic, we are drawn by it, we draw from it.
nostalgia my ass,read the thread you will see all the differing opinions.
On October 31 2011 15:53 RedJustice wrote: BW doesn't have that magic-- that special something that makes it more wonderful than any other game, or any other RTS, or w/e. It doesn't have that sparkle.
I'll preface this by saying that I'm in no way a BW fan, but many of my friends and acquaintances whose opinions I respect are. That said:
I gather that the fundamental thing that makes a lot of the people who are BW fans love it so much is its extreme depth -- which is to say that it rewards extended effort. People who play for years continue to discover new things about the game.
That IS something specific to the game that distinguishes it from others. It's a quality that all great games share. It's also something that can take a huge investment of time and effort to appreciate, which is why the time you've put into trying to get your head around what people love about BW isn't close to enough.
As far as the comparison to SC2 goes, I think that the BW fans who dismiss SC2 out of hand for being a different game are going too far. However, the ones who say that it might wind up being a great game but isn't there yet are on to something, in the sense that it hasn't been around long enough to really know if it has that same kind of depth.
If SC2 settles into a long-term pattern where all the games start looking the same, that will be a good sign that it's not in BW's league in that regard. I don't believe that's close to happening yet, and honestly we probably won't have a chance to see how that really plays out until the second expansion is released, probably around 2020.
Another observation on that: It's quite possible that BW's depth was a direct result of Blizzard's willingness to follow the game and adjust balance years after its release, since the primary goal of balance changes is to prevent strategic dead-ends. There's every reason to believe they'll have the same long-term commitment to SC2.
Put another way, I'm not a chess fan either, because I just don't really approach cognitive problems in a way that lets me succeed at the game, but chess has that same kind of depth, and I'd be making a huge mistake to say that the people who love it are simply being nostalgic. I don't really like playing BW because the control has always felt wrong to me, but like my reaction to chess, I think that's just a matter of what I'm good at, and it's not inherently a weakness of the game in a larger sense.
Anyway, I think the hate you're getting from BW fans isn't appropriate considering that you've raised some reasonable questions that deserve a reasonable response. But, I don't think I agree with you.
On October 31 2011 19:41 Sephy90 wrote: While ignorance can be quite annoying, it doesn't bother me much~ but when you say the magic isn't in the game is just flat out wrong. Take a look at this beautiful website, the fans, the players, the coaches, the motherfucking parents of the players who realized how special this game is to their children and that support from them alone is another source of that magic(which is also another beautiful thing).
How dare you say that magic isn't there? I'm fine if you don't see it yourself but straight up telling people it's NOT there is insulting. That magic IS there, you just fail to see it. Off topic: Sadly I don't have any IRL friends who love BW as much as I do. I do have a few friends who think BW is an inferior game due to the many dumb reasons we have seen and read~ (also my friend tells me that terran is the weakest race and that stealth units are overpowered which is funny to me)
Now they're all really into SC2 and I'm thinking about the other that weren't into BW but are not into SC2. Where the hell is the love you have for SC2 for BW? This is probably the lamest thing ever to me. I can't see how people like SC2 but don't like BW and many reasons I'll get are just weak. I know they are two different games but they are quite similar to each other.. IMO if you like SC2 you should have no problem liking BW but well it's all subjective I guess.
You only mentioned the community and players when talking about magic, not a single word about the game itself and that is what the OP is pointing at.
The BW community has the "magic", the game is just the part that connects everyone together and it could have theoretically been any other game at that time.
On October 31 2011 19:41 Sephy90 wrote: While ignorance can be quite annoying, it doesn't bother me much~ but when you say the magic isn't in the game is just flat out wrong. Take a look at this beautiful website, the fans, the players, the coaches, the motherfucking parents of the players who realized how special this game is to their children and that support from them alone is another source of that magic(which is also another beautiful thing).
How dare you say that magic isn't there? I'm fine if you don't see it yourself but straight up telling people it's NOT there is insulting. That magic IS there, you just fail to see it. Off topic: Sadly I don't have any IRL friends who love BW as much as I do. I do have a few friends who think BW is an inferior game due to the many dumb reasons we have seen and read~ (also my friend tells me that terran is the weakest race and that stealth units are overpowered which is funny to me)
Now they're all really into SC2 and I'm thinking about the other that weren't into BW but are not into SC2. Where the hell is the love you have for SC2 for BW? This is probably the lamest thing ever to me. I can't see how people like SC2 but don't like BW and many reasons I'll get are just weak. I know they are two different games but they are quite similar to each other.. IMO if you like SC2 you should have no problem liking BW but well it's all subjective I guess.
You only mentioned the community and players when talking about magic, not a single word about the game itself and that is what the OP is pointing at.
The BW community has the "magic", the game is just the part that connects everyone together and it could have theoretically been any other game at that time.
Ahh I guess I wasn't specific enough I guess. I'm saying the game does have the magic, the examples of the people are the ones that see it from the game. They are are all connected but I think because they see the magically sparkly coolness from it. Also I did actually mention the magic being in the game, and telling the OP that he failed to see it.
It could have been any other game but I sort of disagree with that. I'm sure people back then were playing other games but why did Starcraft because so damned special why? IT'S THERE!
On October 31 2011 19:52 BLinD-RawR wrote: no, the game is magic, we are drawn by it, we draw from it.
nostalgia my ass,read the thread you will see all the differing opinions.
On October 31 2011 18:47 iNfeRnaL wrote: Edit: At the car comparison above - let's make this comparison more simple. Think of a race car. You've got to shift yourself, you got to control the car yourself. That's the classical way of doing it. Right? You do everything yourself except providing the HP etc. That would be BW for you.
Compare it to a newer kind of race car. You don't have to shift anymore, you don't have to break anymore. All you got to do is steer and accelerate. That's pretty much SC2 in comparison.
Whyand how am I saying this? Well, that's the so called "mechanics" for you. Broodwar has no MBS, no auto-mining or auto-cast. That's the race car comparison for you.
Sure, it might be possible that in the newer kind of race car you will be able to drive faster laps and you'll do less mistakes and there might even be less crashes happening. So for the most logically thinking individuals, the second car should be the "better one".
No need to tell you the real race car is still a lot more exciting to those, who actually experienced the reign of the "real" ones, right?
and if you own a tv station are you going to put on the skillful rally drivers shifting, breaking, taking different lines, facing different weather... or the nascar with people going round a circle for hours? at no point have i said sc2 is better then bw. Its just newer and is bringing in more people. More people will be more advertising revenue and so the teams/sponsors etc will all follow
I dont see why bw cant continue when its got so many passionate fans and players. The community seem_ by far _to be the most epic/loyal/dedicated for any game ive ever seen
that said sc2 growing isn't a bad thing.. with the amount of references from casters/players/pros who were previously bw/people on this site surely you will still get a portion of the people who move in because of sc2's popularity that will still discover bw and can keep it slowly growing if not quite at the same rate?
I'll quite the last part of my post above: "Sure, it might be possible that in the newer kind of race car you will be able to drive faster laps and you'll do less mistakes and there might even be less crashes happening. So for the most logically thinking individuals, the second car should be the "better one".
No need to tell you the real race car is still a lot more exciting to those, who actually experienced the reign of the "real" ones, right?" This part also implies that it might not be the worst thing ever to drive the new cars (more safe, less mistakes, better lap times.) I play SC2 myself and I kind of start to like it a little bit, but I'm not close to be as enthuasiastic for it as I was for BW. (again, keep in mind, I was a BW "pro" and played that game 10 years of my life.) Also I do think that Broodwar progamers are a lot more skilled than SC2 progamers because of that very raw mechanic skills needed in Broodwar.
To your comparison with Nascar I only can answer - how many people are there who don't like Nascar at all because - in all honesty - it is a lot more boring / less skilled than some other racing sports. Driving in a circle all the time isn't as hard as a real track, no doubt about that one, right? That being said Nascar (and SC2 to go further) requires a lot of skill too, but arguably not as much as the others.
EPT
GREAT THREAD
