• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 21:36
CEST 03:36
KST 10:36
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202561RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16
Community News
BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams10Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed19Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8Team TLMC #5 - Submission re-extension4
StarCraft 2
General
Greatest Players of All Time: 2025 Update The StarCraft 2 GOAT - An in-depth analysis The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings #1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time EWC 2025 details: $700k total prize; GSL, DH Dallas confirmed
Tourneys
Esports World Cup 2025 FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond)
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava
Brood War
General
BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Ginuda's JaeDong Interview Series [Update] ShieldBattery: 2025 Redesign BW General Discussion Dewalt's Show Matches in China
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China CSL Xiamen International Invitational [CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance
Strategy
[G] Mineral Boosting Does 1 second matter in StarCraft? Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Total Annihilation Server - TAForever Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Post Pic of your Favorite Food!
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2025 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Eight Anniversary as a TL…
Mizenhauer
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 679 users

BW Magic-- It's not in the game. - Page 7

Blogs > RedJustice
Post a Reply
Prev 1 5 6 7 8 9 15 Next All
nitdkim
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
1264 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-31 11:20:35
October 31 2011 11:19 GMT
#121
You've obviously never obtained an instant "gg" with a Godly reaver harass and seeing your opponent's reaction from either across the room or the internet. The magic in BW lives in each unit and the potential they all have (except the stupid scout, unless you're Kal on Colosseum).
PM me if you want random korean images translated.
valaki
Profile Joined June 2009
Hungary2476 Posts
October 31 2011 11:21 GMT
#122
I agree that Brood War is not that special if you view it solely with casual eyes, as someone who plays some games with their friends on the weekends, massing Battlecruisers and Carriers and such and doesn't care about B.net and pro level competition. It's similar to WC3, as you said, an incredibly well made RTS.

BUT, if you try to get into the game more and more, THEN it will unveil itself as the best RTS ever created. I realized this when I started to watch pro matches and the commentators explained the +1 speed zealot timing attack. The +1 upgrade makes SO much difference in the game, that it can decide a match instantly. That's and such things make BW the most refined RTS game ever created.
ggaemo fan
shaun3h
Profile Joined September 2011
United Kingdom24 Posts
October 31 2011 11:22 GMT
#123
On October 31 2011 20:07 iNfeRnaL wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
On October 31 2011 19:18 shaun3h wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 31 2011 18:47 iNfeRnaL wrote:
Edit: At the car comparison above - let's make this comparison more simple.
Think of a race car. You've got to shift yourself, you got to control the car yourself.
That's the classical way of doing it. Right? You do everything yourself except providing the HP etc.
That would be BW for you.

Compare it to a newer kind of race car. You don't have to shift anymore, you don't have to break anymore. All you got to do is steer and accelerate.
That's pretty much SC2 in comparison.

Whyand how am I saying this?
Well, that's the so called "mechanics" for you.
Broodwar has no MBS, no auto-mining or auto-cast.
That's the race car comparison for you.

Sure, it might be possible that in the newer kind of race car you will be able to drive faster laps and you'll do less mistakes and there might even be less crashes happening.
So for the most logically thinking individuals, the second car should be the "better one".

No need to tell you the real race car is still a lot more exciting to those, who actually experienced the reign of the "real" ones, right?


and if you own a tv station are you going to put on the skillful rally drivers shifting, breaking, taking different lines, facing different weather... or the nascar with people going round a circle for hours? at no point have i said sc2 is better then bw. Its just newer and is bringing in more people. More people will be more advertising revenue and so the teams/sponsors etc will all follow

I dont see why bw cant continue when its got so many passionate fans and players. The community seem_ by far _to be the most epic/loyal/dedicated for any game ive ever seen

that said sc2 growing isn't a bad thing.. with the amount of references from casters/players/pros who were previously bw/people on this site surely you will still get a portion of the people who move in because of sc2's popularity that will still discover bw and can keep it slowly growing if not quite at the same rate?


I'll quite the last part of my post above:
"Sure, it might be possible that in the newer kind of race car you will be able to drive faster laps and you'll do less mistakes and there might even be less crashes happening.
So for the most logically thinking individuals, the second car should be the "better one".

No need to tell you the real race car is still a lot more exciting to those, who actually experienced the reign of the "real" ones, right?"
This part also implies that it might not be the worst thing ever to drive the new cars (more safe, less mistakes, better lap times.)

I play SC2 myself and I kind of start to like it a little bit, but I'm not close to be as enthuasiastic for it as I was for BW. (again, keep in mind, I was a BW "pro" and played that game 10 years of my life.)
Also I do think that Broodwar progamers are a lot more skilled than SC2 progamers because of that very raw mechanic skills needed in Broodwar.

To your comparison with Nascar I only can answer - how many people are there who don't like Nascar at all because - in all honesty - it is a lot more boring / less skilled than some other racing sports. Driving in a circle all the time isn't as hard as a real track, no doubt about that one, right?
That being said Nascar (and SC2 to go further) requires a lot of skill too, but arguably not as much as the others.


It seems we are out of disagreements then. I guess all thats left is to wish you luck on your progress in both games and promise one day (some day) i will appreciate bw for all that it is.
SarR
Profile Joined June 2011
476 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-31 11:39:28
October 31 2011 11:33 GMT
#124
Yall being too hard on her.....if she ever saw Breeze[Akuta]'s(or i think it was IntoTheRain) PvT on an island map, or V.Gundam go MM vs Toss and win using the most godly storm dodging of its time, this blog would never exist so please forgive her.

EDIT: -Also add
Jaedong raping Terran using only Muta Micro.
Jaedong's Lurkerless ZvT on Andromeda vs Flash
V.Gundam's relentless TvP style
Boxer's Dropship play.(Bonus if its a TvT with Nada)

No way anyone can say there is no magic in this game. So many amazing stuff i seen over the years playing/watching this game.
SarR
Profile Joined June 2011
476 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-31 11:43:58
October 31 2011 11:43 GMT
#125
But to be fair to RedJustice, I understand what she is trying to say. Basically she is speaking of the emotional attachment fans have come to develop over the years as its true "magic". Its an interesting hypothesis with merit. Give her a break.
Fadetowhite
Profile Joined August 2010
Korea (South)302 Posts
October 31 2011 12:07 GMT
#126
good thing he is the expert then yea.
메신저
DarkMatter_
Profile Joined January 2010
Canada1774 Posts
October 31 2011 12:09 GMT
#127
You seem to think that the passion and fondness people have for BW is the result of playing/following the game for such a long period. I couldn't disagree me. I started watching/playing BW in late 2009 and in less than a month or two, I was hooked on professional BW and became obsessed with trying to overcome the steep beginner's challenge on Battle.net/iccup.

On the other hand, I've been watching SC2 every now and then (mainly high-profile matches like MVP vs. Nestea) ever since the beta, and it still hasn't gripped me in the same way that BW did. Professional BW is still, hands down, the most awe-inspiring stuff you'll see in any video game ever. It blows my mind how despite all the mechanical limitations, players like Jaedong, Flash, and Bisu seem to have far better reaction timings, army control, game sense, and decision making compared to the top SC2 players.

Also LAN. Playing LAN BW with my friends is some of the most fun I've ever had, and the lack of LAN is SC2 is one reason why I believe SC2 can never hope to be as good as BW.
ninini
Profile Joined June 2010
Sweden1204 Posts
October 31 2011 12:17 GMT
#128
On October 31 2011 18:22 Morfildur wrote:
I have to agree with the OP.
I played SC1 and later BW in our small 4-8 player LANS when it came out and still a year later, so i still carry some nostalgia about winning 4 player FFAs, crushing my brother on Lost Temple, etc... but it's the past.

Sure, it requires a ton of skill to play, but so do for example Dune 2 or Warcraft 1/2 (which might even require more skill than BW). The reason why we see a professional BW scene is because it was there at the right time with a lot of luck and the players and community made the game to what it is now, not the game itself. A lot of games might have done it, but they either lacked features ((online) multiplayer, observers, ...), were released at the wrong time or just didn't get lucky (for example Supreme Commander was close to breaking the line).

I still love BW for the memories of childhood times, but it's not capturing me like 12 years ago. I don't get excited when i watch it and i don't have fun playing it (mostly because of unit pathing. I hate dragoons and ultralisks -.- Don't know how i could have enjoyed that 12 years ago).

In the end, players and fans are more important than the game itself. There doesn't have to be a logical reason why you like something (or noone would watch American Football or Soccer).

Why don't you just play Terran? Honestly I think complaints about BW unit pathing is a bit superficial. To me it seems like you're just looking for an excuse, something to complain on, because you didn't want to get into BW in the first place. I can definately see many reasons why you wouldn't want to get into BW. SC2 is just so much more appealing as a community.

Anyway, big units in BW like the dragoon are supposed to be a bit clunky. They were designed that way and it makes sense given their size. In fact if dragoons clumped up naturally it would just backfire, because dragoons are the main targets of siege tanks, and the splash damage would kill them. Dragoons were designed to roam in open spaces and snipe powerful units from afar and for that purpose they get the job done without any hiccups.

I think the BW pathing along with the magic boxing, which enables you to adjust their rough formation is brilliant. It's more realistic than the tight formations in SC2 and it encourages positional play and micro.
infinity2k9
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United Kingdom2397 Posts
October 31 2011 12:21 GMT
#129
Except i already knew it before i had ever watched any professional games, and i played pretty much every RTS back then.
gn0m
Profile Joined January 2008
Sweden302 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-31 13:15:49
October 31 2011 12:24 GMT
#130
What a god awful blog. You just come up with a totally arbitrary definition of ”magic” and without any logical arguments you conclude that BW lacks it. First off, why the hell cant there be magic inherent in a game? Of course BW gets more exciting if you are familiar with the players and their stories etc. But as you may or may not know, BW pretty much created eSports. How could this game draw enormous amounts of viewers, be broadcasted on TV, create professional teams with players with unreal salaries if there isn’t something special with the game to begin with? BW built an entire scene out of nothing because people find the game to be extremely fun/rewarding. Yet, it still doesn’t qualify to your subjective view of “magic”, so therefore BW lacks magic. Great reasoning.

Secondly, it’s pretty funny that you after “watching some vods, playing the campaign and even *gasp* a few games over LAN” tell an entire community dedicated to BW that this game lacks magic. So after spending minimal time on the game, you think that you can speak for everyone that hasn’t been following the game since the beginning? On the contrary, even now (13 years after the release date) new players are hooked and begin to enjoy this game, without having any prior “emotional connection” to BW. That means that BW is pretty damn special, regardless if you liked it or not.

SC2 is (mostly) criticized for specific flaws in game design, i.e. logical arguments. Your whole blog pretty much boils down to “I didn’t like BW that much, therefore it lacks magic.”
-_-
CaffeineFree-_-
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States712 Posts
October 31 2011 12:58 GMT
#131
I really don't understand the point of posting this; getting something off your chest? Saying something like bw isn't any special over another rts site on a BW(started) site, herp derp??

1/5
We say we love flowers, yet we pluck them. We say we love trees, yet we cut them down. And people still wonder why some are afraid when told they are loved
FraCuS
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States1072 Posts
October 31 2011 13:11 GMT
#132
BW will always have that magic ever since the day I've won a PvP match <3
Apink/Girl's Day/miss A/IU/Crayon Pop/Sistar/Exo K :D l Kpop and Kdrama Enthusiast
Zergneedsfood
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
United States10671 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-31 13:14:51
October 31 2011 13:11 GMT
#133
I played when I was in 2nd grade.

Starcraft is the only game that I've never dropped and forgotten about. I didn't follow the proscene. I didn't follow teamliquid. Hell, my only friends with playing Starcraft was this white guy who played longer than me and was under the impression that Spawning Pools were 150 minerals because he didn't read the new patch notes. I'm still playing this game. It wasn't until 2005 that I started actually hanging out with people who knew about the eSports scene.

That's special to me.
/人◕ ‿‿ ◕人\ Make a contract with me and join TLADT | Onodera isn't actually a girl, she's just a doormat you walk over to get to the girl. - Numy 2015
Velr
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Switzerland10700 Posts
October 31 2011 13:15 GMT
#134
On October 31 2011 21:17 ninini wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 31 2011 18:22 Morfildur wrote:
I have to agree with the OP.
I played SC1 and later BW in our small 4-8 player LANS when it came out and still a year later, so i still carry some nostalgia about winning 4 player FFAs, crushing my brother on Lost Temple, etc... but it's the past.

Sure, it requires a ton of skill to play, but so do for example Dune 2 or Warcraft 1/2 (which might even require more skill than BW). The reason why we see a professional BW scene is because it was there at the right time with a lot of luck and the players and community made the game to what it is now, not the game itself. A lot of games might have done it, but they either lacked features ((online) multiplayer, observers, ...), were released at the wrong time or just didn't get lucky (for example Supreme Commander was close to breaking the line).

I still love BW for the memories of childhood times, but it's not capturing me like 12 years ago. I don't get excited when i watch it and i don't have fun playing it (mostly because of unit pathing. I hate dragoons and ultralisks -.- Don't know how i could have enjoyed that 12 years ago).

In the end, players and fans are more important than the game itself. There doesn't have to be a logical reason why you like something (or noone would watch American Football or Soccer).

Why don't you just play Terran? Honestly I think complaints about BW unit pathing is a bit superficial. To me it seems like you're just looking for an excuse, something to complain on, because you didn't want to get into BW in the first place. I can definately see many reasons why you wouldn't want to get into BW. SC2 is just so much more appealing as a community.

Anyway, big units in BW like the dragoon are supposed to be a bit clunky. They were designed that way and it makes sense given their size. In fact if dragoons clumped up naturally it would just backfire, because dragoons are the main targets of siege tanks, and the splash damage would kill them. Dragoons were designed to roam in open spaces and snipe powerful units from afar and for that purpose they get the job done without any hiccups.

I think the BW pathing along with the magic boxing, which enables you to adjust their rough formation is brilliant. It's more realistic than the tight formations in SC2 and it encourages positional play and micro.


Please stop protecting the BW pathfinding.
Some units being nearly unable to move down a choke or other narrow pass is NOT good (but this being different would probably alter SC/BW's balance quite a bit ^^).

The Magicboxing/lose formations are good... But the path finding? Horrible :D.. You just get used to it but be honest for a moment... If you would play a new game with that Pathfinding nowadays you would never stop complaining ^^.


WC3 seemed like a nice mix of SC/BW and SC2 when it comes to the path finding/boxing...

corumjhaelen
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
France6884 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-31 13:22:37
October 31 2011 13:21 GMT
#135
It's not nearly as bad as you make it sound, and it's limited to a few units. And it does encourage positionnal play and micro.
Edit : And I agree most of the people that bashed the blog.
‎numquam se plus agere quam nihil cum ageret, numquam minus solum esse quam cum solus esset
Elroi
Profile Joined August 2009
Sweden5595 Posts
October 31 2011 13:22 GMT
#136
This was a well written blog and a good read, but I do not agree that magic can be reduced to nostalgia and things that are exterior to the game. Sure, I would probably not be here now if it wasn't for Klazart and Jaedong. But these great guys were only inspiring because they reflected and made me understand some of the magic of the game. Sure, that feeling doesn't come over night, you learn to see it, but it is brood war at the end of the day that is unique and it has created a unique community, players, memories.

On October 31 2011 17:10 rabidch wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 31 2011 16:44 HawaiianPig wrote:
On October 31 2011 15:53 RedJustice wrote:
These people don't understand the agony of seeing your team make it to the playoffs year and after year, and knowing they have the potential to reach the Super Bowl, and seeing them lose over and over.


ahahahahahahaha where are the CJ fans at?

LOL makes this entire thread worth it


THOUGH
they did win winners league in an epic series

My favorite team only winning the league by beating my favorite player
"To all eSports fans, I want to be remembered as a progamer who can make something out of nothing, and someone who always does his best. I think that is the right way of living, and I'm always doing my best to follow that." - Jaedong. /watch?v=jfghAzJqAp0
Velr
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Switzerland10700 Posts
October 31 2011 13:37 GMT
#137
On October 31 2011 22:21 corumjhaelen wrote:
It's not nearly as bad as you make it sound, and it's limited to a few units. And it does encourage positionnal play and micro.
Edit : And I agree most of the people that bashed the blog.


It is every unit that has the size of a Gholiat or more (which is many?).
It is extremly bad.
Seriously, when your used to it you don't notice it that much because you begin to construct your whole base with the AI in mind... If you're not used to it (anymore) it's bad, really, really bad.
DenSkumle
Profile Joined December 2010
Norway108 Posts
October 31 2011 13:40 GMT
#138
I'm just going to take this random game, invest time in it and make the magic grow!
Skullflower
Profile Joined July 2010
United States3779 Posts
October 31 2011 13:56 GMT
#139
I can see where you're coming from. Starcraft is the only game that I've always had installed on every computer we've ever owned and I've played it since '98 but I don't have the attachment to it that other people do. Don't get me wrong it's a fucking amazing game but I just don't feel that same magic about it that everyone else here does. The game itself brought me to many amazing communities though.
The ruminations are mine, let the world be yours.
surfinbird1
Profile Joined September 2009
Germany999 Posts
October 31 2011 13:57 GMT
#140
This blog almost gave me a brain aneurysm. What about people like me who joined the BW scene relatively late? I haven't invested anything into the game over the years. I never stayed up late to watch Proleague. In fact most games are broadcast in the morning so I can watch them confortably over breakfast. The game is special, there's no argument here. I and many others fell in lvoe because the game is just that good. The magic is there!
life of lively to live to life of full life thx to shield battery
Prev 1 5 6 7 8 9 15 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 8h 24m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 166
RuFF_SC2 44
Vindicta 42
NoRegreT_ 36
StarCraft: Brood War
Sea 3491
Sexy 26
Terrorterran 7
Icarus 6
Dota 2
monkeys_forever1059
Counter-Strike
Fnx 2572
Stewie2K543
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King201
Other Games
summit1g12316
tarik_tv11427
shahzam563
C9.Mang0222
ViBE213
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick880
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 81
• davetesta36
• RyuSc2 26
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 77
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Doublelift4443
• Stunt149
Upcoming Events
CranKy Ducklings
8h 24m
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
12h 24m
CSO Cup
14h 24m
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
16h 24m
Bonyth vs Sziky
Dewalt vs Hawk
Hawk vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs Dewalt
Mihu vs Bonyth
Zhanhun vs QiaoGege
QiaoGege vs Fengzi
FEL
1d 7h
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
1d 12h
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
1d 16h
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
Online Event
3 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
4 days
[ Show More ]
The PondCast
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Xiamen Invitational
Esports World Cup 2025
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CC Div. A S7
Underdog Cup #2
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

ASL Season 20: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
FEL Cracov 2025
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.